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Old 12-14-2012, 07:13 PM   #51
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Default Re: 2012/2013 NBA thread: Wizards and Warriors - Part 1

Oh that David Stern again....

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Old 12-14-2012, 07:43 PM   #52
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Default Re: 2012/2013 NBA thread: Wizards and Warriors - Part 1

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Of everything you said, only "he's a more accurate shooter" doesn't have an asterisk next to it.

Durant is the best scorer in the league* Maybe, perhaps, possibly.
He's better at getting off his own shot* Depending on the type of defender he's seeing, because he's got less dimensions to his game than Melo.
He's more clutch* Actually completely factually inaccurate. Last season's probably the only time you could make that statement. Carmelo Anthony, along with Chris Paul would be amongst the best clutch guys in the league.
He's a better defender* Hard to gauge, Durant's going to see more 2s and 3s where he uses his length, while Melo will see more 4s and 3s. Neither player is particularly good defensively.
He doesn't get in foul trouble anywhere near as much as Melo* Again, because Melo's covering 4s and 3s compared with Durant seeing more perimeter-based guys.

In the foul leaders, how many of them are guys who you see frequently covering perimeter based opponents?



No. They're not "almost the same player". That's ridiculous. We're comparing probably the most well rounded offensive player in the league with Kevin Durant, who has maybe two major facets to his offense.

And your "his rebounding is not what it should be" should have an asterisk there too... that's the flip side of guarding more perimeter based players, he's out of position for the glass a lot more of the time.
Wait! You just agreed with everything I said, just said it differently. People always say LeBron and Durant are head and shoulders above everyone else. LeBron, I can't argue with because he's possibly one of the best all around players EVER. But when people say Durant is way better than Melo is sooooo ridiculous that its not even funny. They are both great scorers and their defense is questionable but its not bad but I'd say its LeBron 1, Melo 2A and Durant 2B.

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Old 12-14-2012, 07:54 PM   #53
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Default Re: 2012/2013 NBA thread: Wizards and Warriors - Part 1

I'd say Durant is better because he uses his skills better, even if he doesn't have as well rounded a skillset as Melo.

When you look at the Knicks offensive success and the Thunder's success, I'd say the Knicks moreso than the Thunder are doing well because of quality ball movement than because of good work at getting their focal point (Durant/Melo) involved and flowing through them.

When the Thunder aren't going through Durant their offense struggles at times and he often does a good job of carrying their offense (whilst finding the balance to not overshoot and take his team out of the game).

That's not a sleight on Melo, though. A lot of superstars out there wouldn't be willing to say we should be letting the ball do the work/telling their coach that they should be running things through their veteran point guard because that's what's more effective regardless of how it might effect their individual game.

I'd say Durant's the better player, Melo's the more skilled complete player. Both are doing really well this season though.

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Old 12-14-2012, 08:00 PM   #54
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Default Re: 2012/2013 NBA thread: Wizards and Warriors - Part 1

I thought Durant swiped Dirk's fade-away high post shot last season?

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Old 12-14-2012, 08:06 PM   #55
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Default Re: 2012/2013 NBA thread: Wizards and Warriors - Part 1

Oh don't get me wrong, he's not Bruce Bowen. But he still doesn't exactly have a Carmelo-level rounded offensive skill-set.

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Old 12-14-2012, 09:44 PM   #56
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Default Re: 2012/2013 NBA thread: Wizards and Warriors - Part 1

And that's why Hound is probably the most respected poster in this thread. Unless of course if you say something about Kobe. Then people swear you are a hater. Believe me, I know. Ask Doc Samson.

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Old 12-15-2012, 12:21 AM   #57
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Default Re: 2012/2013 NBA thread: Wizards and Warriors - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Docker2.0 View Post
Wait! You just agreed with everything I said, just said it differently. People always say LeBron and Durant are head and shoulders above everyone else. LeBron, I can't argue with because he's possibly one of the best all around players EVER. But when people say Durant is way better than Melo is sooooo ridiculous that its not even funny. They are both great scorers and their defense is questionable but its not bad but I'd say its LeBron 1, Melo 2A and Durant 2B.
Melo's great, but I'll ask you this hypothetical for fun. Say Durant and Melo are free agents at the end of the year and both want to come to the Knicks next year. The Knicks can only sign one and they've made it known they won't play together, who do you want them to sign? And put aside age and upside in this scenario, both of their games are capped in their current capacity for the next six years.

- Is it a hard decision, or did you know instantly who you wanted them to sign?

- How many of the 30 GM's do you think would sign your choice (whoever that is)

For me personally it's not even close, I'd want the Knicks to sign Durant based on his accomplishments in the regular season and playoffs. I didn't even think about it for more then 5 seconds. I think 30 GM's agree with me. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

This is what I mean when I think it's not even close. Both are GREAT, but I think Durant has that extra special quality with his leadership and scoring prowess (and scoring titles). We can break down their games all we want, but production and results are the bottom line for me. They are very close on the one hand, but Durant's intangibles make it an easy choice for me.

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Old 12-15-2012, 09:31 AM   #58
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Default Re: 2012/2013 NBA thread: Wizards and Warriors - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Docker2.0 View Post
And that's why Hound is probably the most respected poster in this thread. Unless of course if you say something about Kobe. Then people swear you are a hater. Believe me, I know. Ask Doc Samson.
You respect him, don't speak for everybody. But what you say about Kobe is not only extreme, it's made worse because your in love with Melo.

Someone who has the exact same mentality, who shoots just as many "bad" shots, who right now is hovering in the low 40% fg range, who went to Kobe himself to get his confidence back to shoot more and not care about backlash, but you can defend him to the end of the Earth? If you can't see your hypocrisy, fine. No need to mention me though just because I call you out on your bs.

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Old 12-15-2012, 12:26 PM   #59
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Default Re: 2012/2013 NBA thread: Wizards and Warriors - Part 1

Melo isn't playing with Howard or Gasol or blaming his teammates for losses either is he? That's the difference. It's his team when they win but when they lose, It's ALWAYS someone else's fault.

Sonic, when Melo and Durant go head to head just watch how even their stats are. And if you wrote their stats and numbers down and didn't put any name with them, I can guarantee you wouldn't know who was who.

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Old 12-15-2012, 01:01 PM   #60
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Default Re: 2012/2013 NBA thread: Wizards and Warriors - Part 1

Touching stuff man.

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Old 12-15-2012, 01:38 PM   #61
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Default Re: 2012/2013 NBA thread: Wizards and Warriors - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Docker2.0 View Post
Melo isn't playing with Howard or Gasol or blaming his teammates for losses either is he? That's the difference. It's his team when they win but when they lose, It's ALWAYS someone else's fault.

Sonic, when Melo and Durant go head to head just watch how even their stats are. And if you wrote their stats and numbers down and didn't put any name with them, I can guarantee you wouldn't know who was who.
Lol he pretty much blamed his whole team in Denver, and held them hostage, not to mention throwing his coach under the bus. Are you kidding me?

Kobe ain't gonna sugar coat weak effort, not when he's working harder then everybody else. Be a man and go harder or sit down, that's all they need to do.

He has more miles on his body than the rest of the team put together, yet he's out there with back spasms against the Knicks and played the whole second half. Turned around the next night with more heavy minutes against a team it shouldn't be necessary for. I wouldn't have patience for nobody's s*** either, if I'm willing to go that hard and they're barely acting like they care. What can't you grasp about that?

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Touching stuff man.

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Reason why I love KG. He might not shake hands or play completely clean but that's just the old school mentality. He's a class dude, and wasted his best years "doing the right thing."

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Old 12-15-2012, 08:45 PM   #62
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Default Re: 2012/2013 NBA thread: Wizards and Warriors - Part 1

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Of everything you said, only "he's a more accurate shooter" doesn't have an asterisk next to it.

Durant is the best scorer in the league* Maybe, perhaps, possibly.
He's better at getting off his own shot* Depending on the type of defender he's seeing, because he's got less dimensions to his game than Melo.
He's more clutch* Actually completely factually inaccurate. Last season's probably the only time you could make that statement. Carmelo Anthony, along with Chris Paul would be amongst the best clutch guys in the league.
He's a better defender* Hard to gauge, Durant's going to see more 2s and 3s where he uses his length, while Melo will see more 4s and 3s. Neither player is particularly good defensively.
He doesn't get in foul trouble anywhere near as much as Melo* Again, because Melo's covering 4s and 3s compared with Durant seeing more perimeter-based guys.

In the foul leaders, how many of them are guys who you see frequently covering perimeter based opponents?
Needless to say, but I don't agree with you.

I know it's not the end-all-be-all, but it's hard to argue anyone else when he's led the league in scoring the past three years straight. He might not be the most well-rounded scorer, but that doesn't mean he's not the best.

That's not true. No one in the league can effectively guard Durant. Just because he doesn't have a post game, doesn't mean that 4 or 5s can guard him. He'd blow right past them.

I don't have league pass, so I only get to see Durant when he's on national TV (which is often enough), but anytime I've seen him take a shot to tie or win the game, he hit's it. And I've seen Melo miss quite a few of those shots.

And the foul thing isn't just who Melo is guarding. I don't have the exact stat, but he picks up quite a few offensive fouls. And stupid, blatant ones at that.

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Old 12-15-2012, 08:58 PM   #63
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Default Re: 2012/2013 NBA thread: Wizards and Warriors - Part 1

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You respect him, don't speak for everybody.
WHAT?! You don't respect Hound? Dude is dropping knowledge on everybody from all the way down under. Hound has more about basketball in his kangaroo pouch than you can ever hope to have.

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Old 12-15-2012, 11:16 PM   #64
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Default Re: 2012/2013 NBA thread: Wizards and Warriors - Part 1

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Needless to say, but I don't agree with you.

I know it's not the end-all-be-all, but it's hard to argue anyone else when he's led the league in scoring the past three years straight. He might not be the most well-rounded scorer, but that doesn't mean he's not the best.

That's not true. No one in the league can effectively guard Durant. Just because he doesn't have a post game, doesn't mean that 4 or 5s can guard him. He'd blow right past them.

I don't have league pass, so I only get to see Durant when he's on national TV (which is often enough), but anytime I've seen him take a shot to tie or win the game, he hit's it. And I've seen Melo miss quite a few of those shots.

And the foul thing isn't just who Melo is guarding. I don't have the exact stat, but he picks up quite a few offensive fouls. And stupid, blatant ones at that.
I think you've mis-interpreted what I was saying.

When I said "maybe, perhaps, possibly". That wasn't bringing into question who was the better scorer out of Durant and Carmelo. I said that myself in:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hound55
I'd say Durant is better because he uses his skills better, even if he doesn't have as well rounded a skillset as Melo.
But rather, referring to the statement as a whole looking at it as more than just a two horse race.

That said, I think Melo has been more valuable than Durant this year, regardless of Durant's quality play.

As for clutch, last season was pretty much Melo's worst since he spent much of the year in a system that didn't exactly do him any favours. Clutch isn't all just final shot ability as well, it should also factor in making the correct basketball play to yield positive results at those moments... which is what pushes him and Paul up quite a bit. Durant's one of the best out there as well, and had a better year in clutch situations last year than Melo did. But generally speaking, Melo's been one of the best over the course of his career.

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Old 12-16-2012, 10:40 AM   #65
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Default Re: 2012/2013 NBA thread: Wizards and Warriors - Part 1

Clippers won 9 in a row

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Old 12-16-2012, 12:02 PM   #66
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Clippers won 9 in a row
Fluke.

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Old 12-16-2012, 12:03 PM   #67
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Default Re: 2012/2013 NBA thread: Wizards and Warriors - Part 1

You are such a hater, Docker.

No wonder this board hates Knicks fans.

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Old 12-16-2012, 01:02 PM   #68
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Default Re: 2012/2013 NBA thread: Wizards and Warriors - Part 1

My Gawd I'm only kidding. Stop being so serious. The only thing I really say seriously is how much of a ball hog Kobe is and how much Lin sucks. As far as the Clips, they are CLEARLY the best team in California. But unless Blake learns to do more things than dunking, I don't see them beating the Spurs or OKC and dare I say even the Timberwolves or should I say the Snow Wolves. Are they the only all white starting line up in the NBA?

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Old 12-16-2012, 01:25 PM   #69
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My Gawd I'm only kidding. Stop being so serious. The only thing I really say seriously is how much of a ball hog Kobe is and how much Lin sucks. As far as the Clips, they are CLEARLY the best team in California. But unless Blake learns to do more things than dunking, I don't see them beating the Spurs or OKC and dare I say even the Timberwolves or should I say the Snow Wolves. Are they the only all white starting line up in the NBA?
I'll see you February 10! Blake much improved on both ends of the court! He gets in the passing lane and actually improved his man to man defense. He's been getting more and more comfortable with his jump shot and he even starting to make three. We have beaten the spurs twice this year and always play well against the thunder! We're for real and we still haven't gotten back billups and hill

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Old 12-17-2012, 12:36 AM   #70
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Default Re: 2012/2013 NBA thread: Wizards and Warriors - Part 1

Anyone have the latest all star numbers? Is Jeremy Lin leading voting thus far?

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Old 12-17-2012, 12:45 AM   #71
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Anyone have the latest all star numbers? Is Jeremy Lin leading voting thus far?
West Paul, Kobe, Durant, Griffin, and Howard. Linn third in guard all star voting

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Old 12-17-2012, 12:54 AM   #72
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West Paul, Kobe, Durant, Griffin, and Howard. Linn third in guard all star voting
Overall or just western conference? If he somehow did make it, he should humbly step down. No wonder a lot of guys target him when they play?

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Old 12-17-2012, 01:10 AM   #73
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Default Re: 2012/2013 NBA thread: Wizards and Warriors - Part 1

Bynum: Kobe stunted my growth according to ESPN. Doc Samson, please make excuses for Kobe now. It's why I said Bynum didn't want to play in LA because of Kobe and It's going to be the reason Dwight leaves. Kobe would purposely make a F in a class just so he wouldn't pass.

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Old 12-17-2012, 01:19 AM   #74
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Overall or just western conference? If he somehow did make it, he should humbly step down. No wonder a lot of guys target him when they play?
West, I could care less about the east. Linn behind Paul and Kobe. Last week he was 50k vote short of Paul

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Old 12-17-2012, 01:45 AM   #75
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Default Re: 2012/2013 NBA thread: Wizards and Warriors - Part 1

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Bynum: Kobe stunted my growth according to ESPN. Doc Samson, please make excuses for Kobe now. It's why I said Bynum didn't want to play in LA because of Kobe and It's going to be the reason Dwight leaves. Kobe would purposely make a F in a class just so he wouldn't pass.
First of all, Kobe scored over 30 and (shock) they won. Acknowledge that

Secondly, as far as Bynum getting the ball all the time and "exploring his game" of course he was stunted. Ginobli's career has been stunted too. Just like Scottie Pippen, James Harden or hundreds of other players who sacrificed parts of their game to be on a winning team. Kobe himself stunted his early years, statistically, to co-exist with Shaq, which is something nobody likes to say.

On the flipside, ask KG how it feels to be "the man" by yourself. I bet he would've willingly stunted his growth to play with Paul & Ray from the beginning of his career.

But Bynum, someone who turns the ball over at the first sight of a double team, also said how much Kobe (and Pau) helped him with drawing attention away so he could operate. And the dude got two rings as basically an afterthought. So get healthy and get out there. He'll be the focal point and let's see how he handles that. Ask one of those "stunted" players James Harden, it's a whole different ballgame...

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Last edited by Doc Samson; 12-17-2012 at 03:46 AM.
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