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Old 12-14-2012, 09:18 AM   #51
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

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..Darkseid planning the destruction of Earth by blasting it with a ray that’ll move Apokolips into the Earth’s place.
Sounds like bad science.. Don't like.

Science fiction writers only write these kinds of plots because that makes it possible to lean massively on plot devices. God how I hate obvious plot devices. Can't we have a good, ol' alien invasion without some wacko science fiction plot device?

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Old 12-14-2012, 09:56 AM   #52
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

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Originally Posted by Zionite1 View Post
1.Batman and Superman is enouh to get the public interested in it-I know that.
BUT
overt similarities in Plot and Villain to the avengers is enough to damper the auidence enjoyment of the film,which will lead to bad word of mouth which will turn off others from seeing the movie.That the movie has Bats and Supes does not give it a free pass to be a "ripoff" storywise and Villain wise.

2.How on earth can the Public be worn out on the Avengers team by the time of 2015?Theres no other avengers fim going to be released before then.Avengers 2 is a sequel to a billion dollar franchise and is further hyped by solo movies.Its gonna be huge success lets not kid ourselves on that.
We may need to agree to disagree on point one. I don't think the "rip-off" situation will happen. I wouldn't give the GA that much credit.

The Avengers characters will have had a total of at least nine movies at that point. Like I had mentioned, I don't expect them to lose a significant amount of steam, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.

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Old 12-14-2012, 10:48 AM   #53
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

Having read the issues WARNING **SPOILERS**

Darkseid is dead and (from beyond the grave!) gets the Injustice Society of Earth-2 to come to Apokolips, kidnap the gods of New Genesis, and force them to build a "Re-Creation Machine" that not only brings Darkseid back to life but is also a teleportation device than can bring Apokolips to Earth-2. This would destroy Earth-2 and Apokolips would take its place, from where Darkseid can rule, without old or new Gods in the way.

So basically it's the Justice League and Justice Society members on Apokolips separated into groups- freeing prisoners, battling Darkseid's posse and the Injustice Society etc. while in a race against time to stop Darkseid before he brings Apokolips to Earth-2.

In a way it sort of reminded me of the first Star Wars (i.e. A New Hope) in that there is that race to stop the Death Star from blowing up the planet. I guess this is what WB want to emulate in some way.

It does have a lot of old-fashioned sci-fi elements and convenient plot devices like the Re-creation Machine etc. but hopefully they downplay those elements.

I don't think there has to be a multiverse aspect, since that was mainly used because this was an annual team up of the Justice League of Earth-1 and the Justice Society of Earth-2. They could very well make the story of Darkseid transporting Apokolips to Earth-1.


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Old 12-14-2012, 11:22 AM   #54
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

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Originally Posted by kvz5 View Post
I hate how you're making me like your ideas and speculations way too much.

I'm still preparing for my worst case scenario: JGL is the Batman of JL.
Heheh. Ill try to keep them coming

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I peronally prefer it.The smaller the team,the better.The Avengers had 6 members 4 of which where built up via solos.Yet Hawkeye got shafted.The Justice league with 7 members and no solos is a huge challenge,so i agree they shld go with 5 members.
Me too. I really want this lineup to be the main 5, at the most.

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Old 12-14-2012, 11:56 AM   #55
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

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Heheh. Ill try to keep them coming

Me too. I really want this lineup to be the main 5, at the most.
Three to five works for me. I wouldn't be upset at all if it were just the big three the first time around to save screen time to flesh out the characters more. Five is obviously ideal.

I guess it depends on the Batman used. A new one might need more time to introduce. Bale's would need less time for the audience to get acclimated.

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Old 12-14-2012, 12:02 PM   #56
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

People will accept Batman no matter who is playing him. It's Batman, that's really all most people care about. If it isn't Bale, no one's gonna say, "Whoa, who the **** is that guy in the bat costume?"

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Old 12-14-2012, 12:03 PM   #57
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

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Three to five works for me. I wouldn't be upset at all if it were just the big three the first time around to save screen time to flesh out the characters more. Five is obviously ideal.

I guess it depends on the Batman used. A new one might need more time to introduce. Bale's would need less time for the audience to get acclimated.
Judging by these latest rumours, I don't even know if WB are going to worry so much about fleshing out the characters, spending time to introduce them, or acclimating them to a new Batman etc. I think they're just going to dive right into it. They want to introduce as many heroes that can potentially be made into solo movies (which is a big reason why they want to make a JL movie, because they consider it too risky to introduce someone like Wonder Woman in a solo movie first.) So it would highly likely include Flash and Wonder Woman, who both have solo scripts being worked on. And maybe even Aquaman would be included, since even that has been worked on as a solo movie in some capacity (Leonardo DiCaprio's production company Appian Way was working on it as some point, don't know if still.)

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Old 12-14-2012, 12:08 PM   #58
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

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Judging by these latest rumours, I don't even know if WB are going to worry so much about fleshing out the characters, spending time to introduce them, or acclimating them to a new Batman etc. I think they're just going to dive right into it. They want to introduce as many heroes that can potentially be made into solo movies (which is a big reason why they want to make a JL movie, because they consider it too risky to introduce someone like Wonder Woman in a solo movie first.) So it would highly likely include Flash and Wonder Woman, who both have solo scripts being worked on. And maybe even Aquaman would be included, since even that has been worked on as a solo movie in some capacity (Leonardo DiCaprio's production company Appian Way was working on it as some point, don't know if still.)
That's a good point, I guess I'm just in disagreement with the plan.

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Old 12-14-2012, 12:15 PM   #59
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

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That's a good point, I guess I'm just in disagreement with the plan.
Yeah, a Superman and Batman teamup movie has long been talked about by fans. I just think at this point it is wishful thinking. Maybe they could or would do it down the line, when teamup movies are more established.

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Old 12-14-2012, 12:36 PM   #60
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

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Yeah, a Superman and Batman teamup movie has long been talked about by fans. I just think at this point it is wishful thinking. Maybe they could or would do it down the line, when teamup movies are more established.
I hope so. My only critique about the Avengers (which is small) is that I felt like they downplayed Thor and Captain America in favor of Iron-man. I'm just hoping that each character in the Justice League gets the treatment that they deserve. It's easy to see how Flash and Green Lantern could be overlooked even more so.

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Old 12-14-2012, 02:04 PM   #61
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

It will be a huge mistake to overlook characters like Flash and Green Lantern who in the comics have a very strong relationship, even in the JLA Cartoon John Stewart and Wally have this amazing Older Brother-Younger Brother relationship. They are not B characters like Hawkeye and Widow who were there to fill 2 things : A nessecary hot chick and average to say at best character who helped the plot develope because who would want Cap or Iron Man or Thor to be mindcontroled by Loki ? no one ! everyone would have *****ed about that.

The Avengers was an awesome eye candy/marvelfest for Comic Book Fans and an exciting summer blockbuster for GA, and thats that ! nothing more nothing less ! it suffered an obnoxious Iron Man that was taken straight out of Iron Man 2 and not from the excellent Iron Man 1, it also lacked emotion. Which i think its a constant problem with Marvel nowadays, thats where DC must hit ! emotion and character development ! no secondarys because in JLA there are no secondary characters, except maybe Cyborg.

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Old 12-14-2012, 02:21 PM   #62
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

You guys do realize that just because a certain source material is being used doesn't mean the roster will be the same, right?

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Old 12-14-2012, 02:36 PM   #63
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

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In a way it sort of reminded me of the first Star Wars (i.e. A New Hope) in that there is that race to stop the Death Star from blowing up the planet. I guess this is what WB want to emulate in some way.
Good Observation.Probably what they are going for.


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I don't think there has to be a multiverse aspect, since that was mainly used because this was an annual team up of the Justice League of Earth-1 and the Justice Society of Earth-2. They could very well make the story of Darkseid transporting Apokolips to Earth-1.
Of course there doesnt have to be a multiverse aspect but Dc does have the option.I perosnally wish they wld take it because

(a)It opens room for the only villains in sequels that can top Darkseid-The Crisis villains
(b)By saying each hero has his own universe they dont have to worry about continuity anymore.Also movie creators will have complete and utter freedom


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People will accept Batman no matter who is playing him. It's Batman, that's really all most people care about. If it isn't Bale, no one's gonna say, "Whoa, who the **** is that guy in the bat costume?"
Thank you.People forget TASM

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We may need to agree to disagree on point one. I don't think the "rip-off" situation will happen. I wouldn't give the GA that much credit.

The Avengers characters will have had a total of at least nine movies at that point. Like I had mentioned, I don't expect them to lose a significant amount of steam, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.
I think the GA has proven they do care about the story time and time again.That there have been failed Btamn and Superman movies proves thy dont get a free pass to get away with anything.
But yeah agree to disagree.

Oh and the only way the solos loose steam is if they suck-which is unlikely since marvel knows how to make CBMs.

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You guys do realize that just because a certain source material is being used doesn't mean the roster will be the same, right?
yeah we do.Were currently betting the Roster will be the big 5 mainly

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Old 12-15-2012, 01:26 AM   #64
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

From what I've seen, I might be in the minority with this feeling, but I don't like this rumor at all. If true, I don't believe it'll go over well with audiences or some fans such as myself. And here is why:

1) The whole issue of Darkseid being introduced without buildup. Please understand I don't mean solo movie buildup, but the threat of Darkseid needs to be drummed up to some degree so audiences won't see him as "just another bad guy aka glorified punching bag". And one of the biggest problems I have specifically with what I understand from this #183-185 business is that there is no bigger picture. The plot is strictly just Darkseid wants to destroy Earth and put Apokolips in its place? Where's the clever albeit devious scheme? Is this just 100% arbitrary with no consequence other than Apokolips is closer to the yellow sun? What made the Thanos reveal so powerful was the fact that this big bad is going after the very thing that the MCU movies have been built around and has been driving the plot the whole time unbeknownst to the audience or the heroes. It wasn't just the fact that he exists.

2) Sort of goes hand in hand with what was said earlier, but the fact that this story doesn't take place on Earth could hurt as well. A good portion of people, GA and fans alike, like to see stories happening on Earth even if it's drastically different from the reality we all know. It's no more impactful seeing a random alien city or asteroid getting destroyed than some major Earth city. For the first movie, I think it'd be better if they stuck to what the JL even formed to do: protect the world and its immediate surroundings from REAL threats that have consequence.

3) Goes in hand with the one right before as well. The multiverse could be very off-putting for a certain portion of the GA. I feel like this'll end up like Transformers 2. Those who are avid fans (whom I used to be in the ranks of) got all of the lore behind the Matrix of Leadership, Fallen, Jetfire, Nemesis, etc. But to the general audience, it was a crazy whack fest of random sci-fi jumbleness thrown together for no apparent reason.

It's like people coming to eat Thanksgiving dinner and the turkey is stuffed overflowing with random, unappetizing crap for "flavor". But in the end, the guests came to eat turkey, not the random crap. It'll be a grand disappointment if they have to spent too much energy picking through the stuffedness to get what they came to get.

I was never a crazy supporter of a grounded JL movie, but it needs to be more grounded than this, that's for sure.

4)The roster. It's ginormous. Not only are there a billion heroes (I counted around 13 heroes depending on who you include) but Darkseid's whole entourage which could be about 4+ "people". Not the personal, character developing environment for a first-time-on-screen-set-of-characters that this movie cries out for.

Plus the Flash is missing. He makes a "cameo" apparently but he's an essential part of the JL in my book. But this is a minor complaint because it is easily fixible.

There is more, but I'll bring it up as we go along.

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Old 12-15-2012, 03:39 AM   #65
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

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1) Is this just 100% arbitrary with no consequence other than Apokolips is closer to the yellow sun?
In the comics he wants to escape being pursued by his enemies, by the "old or new" gods. Apokolips is described as being somewhere beyond the bounds of time and space, between alternate universes. If Darkseid moves Apokolips then he can escape the other New Gods and New Genesis, and rule the universe from Earth's place.

This aspect/explanation could be changed or elaborated on anyway. He could set out to destroy Earth for a number of reasons.

Quote:
2) Sort of goes hand in hand with what was said earlier, but the fact that this story doesn't take place on Earth could hurt as well. A good portion of people, GA and fans alike, like to see stories happening on Earth even if it's drastically different from the reality we all know.
It could be tricky as we are thrown into this unfamiliar place. WB have to make the League and their mission relatable in some way. For example, in one part of the comic's story, they free child slaves that Darkseid has kidnapped. They need to do something that the audience can identify with, I agree.

Quote:
3) The multiverse could be very off-putting for a certain portion of the GA.
It doesn't have to be a multiverse. Or at least get into the complicated aspects of it. In the comics, the multiverse aspect is mainly used to pick and choose certain team members from both the JLA (from Earth-1) and the JSA (from Earth-2). But the screenplay will probably just use the JLA, and not the JSA, and have our Earth threatened. Apokolips could be described as being located in another dimension, and heroes could get there by Boom Tube.

Quote:
4)The roster. It's ginormous. Not only are there a billion heroes (I counted around 13 heroes depending on who you include) but Darkseid's whole entourage which could be about 4+ "people". Not the personal, character developing environment for a first-time-on-screen-set-of-characters that this movie cries out for.
As said repeatedly here, of course they're not going to use the exact same lineup as in the comics story. It could very well be 5 or 6 League members running around on Apokolips fighting Darkseid and his entourage. And the scriptwriter (or Warners) can choose whoever they want and what number for either side.

I agree that it is an ambitious plan and they want to do a lot for the first JL movie, making an epic space adventure like Star Wars or Star Trek. I hope they find a great director. That would be a great relief at this point.


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Old 12-15-2012, 05:14 AM   #66
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

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Having read the issues WARNING **SPOILERS**

Darkseid is dead and (from beyond the grave!) gets the Injustice Society of Earth-2 to come to Apokolips, kidnap the gods of New Genesis, and force them to build a "Re-Creation Machine" that not only brings Darkseid back to life but is also a teleportation device than can bring Apokolips to Earth-2. This would destroy Earth-2 and Apokolips would take its place, from where Darkseid can rule, without old or new Gods in the way.

So basically it's the Justice League and Justice Society members on Apokolips separated into groups- freeing prisoners, battling Darkseid's posse and the Injustice Society etc. while in a race against time to stop Darkseid before he brings Apokolips to Earth-2.

In a way it sort of reminded me of the first Star Wars (i.e. A New Hope) in that there is that race to stop the Death Star from blowing up the planet. I guess this is what WB want to emulate in some way.

It does have a lot of old-fashioned sci-fi elements and convenient plot devices like the Re-creation Machine etc. but hopefully they downplay those elements.

I don't think there has to be a multiverse aspect, since that was mainly used because this was an annual team up of the Justice League of Earth-1 and the Justice Society of Earth-2. They could very well make the story of Darkseid transporting Apokolips to Earth-1.
Does Superman fight Darkseid in the story?

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Old 12-15-2012, 05:30 AM   #67
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

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Does Superman fight Darkseid in the story?
No. Because it's very old-fashioned, Superman and Wonder Woman go off and free the child slave/prisoners. Darkseid is actually more in the background, overlooking the entire operation and his evil plan, waiting for Apokolips to arrive at Earth-2. It is only towards the end that he fights anyone, and it is a short fight with his son Orion and some other superheroes, like Firestorm and Power Girl. Batman is off somewhere else setting prisoners free.

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Old 12-15-2012, 07:39 AM   #68
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

Willi, about the plan to move Earth, was there any particular reason he chose Earth specifically? Maybe to stick it to Superman? That' probably the biggest part I'm struggling with in this story idea, the WHY and HOW Darkseid's plan goes down.


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Old 12-15-2012, 08:18 AM   #69
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

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Willi, about the plan to move Earth, was there any particular reason he chose Earth specifically? Maybe to stick it to Superman? That' probably the biggest part I'm struggling with in this story idea, the WHY and HOW Darkseid's plan goes down.
He chose Earth-2, where the Justice Society hails from (not the Justice League), not to stick it to Superman, but, as I said, to move Apokolips away from New Genesis and the threat of the other New Gods, and to have a base to plan his "mastery of the cosmos." Earth-2 just happens to be in the way.

It's obviously a very old story and so it has a lot of simple plot elements. But of course it can be updated, to maybe have it be Darkseid targeting Superman and the Justice League, with specific plans for Earth. And have it be Earth-1 (our Earth.) We don't know what they're planning to do with that.

At this point in the comics, Superman and Darkseid's antagonistic relationship hasn't developed yet. But since it has developed over time, that can be incorporated more into the movie. Even in the New 52, we've got Darkseid coming to Earth and targeting Superman and using humans for his own means. In this old story, Superman has only been to New Genesis once before briefly, through a Boom Tube, and has only heard of Apokolips and Darkseid. So Darkseid is a new threat to the League here.

The movie looks to be using the overall basic outline of the story, which is a big sci-fi kind of story. But motivations and other details can change.


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Old 12-15-2012, 10:14 AM   #70
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

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The movie looks to be using the overall basic outline of the story, which is a big sci-fi kind of story. But motivations and other details can change.

This is what people who are crying foul (for things such as multiverse, JSA, JLA roster, specific plot points) really need to focus on. The Dark Knight Trilogy focused heavily on:

The Man Who Falls
Year One
Long Halloween
Killing Joke
Batman Vol.1 #1-4
Knightfall
No Man's Land
The Dark Knight Returns

But if you were to watch the films, none of them are direct translations, they are all adaptations. Numerous events and characters are omitted.

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Old 12-15-2012, 10:28 AM   #71
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

Yeah. I didn't think that many people would think that.

Like Man of Steel seems to be taking bits of Secret Origin, Last Son, Birthright, Earth One, and at least a line from All-Star Superman.

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Old 12-15-2012, 01:26 PM   #72
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

Really hope they go with the Multiverse approach though.6 universes one foreach hero.That way they never have to worry about questions like where was Superman during Banes attack on Gotham or where was flash during parallax invasion?.
Also theyll have complete creative freedom for the solo movies and wont have to worry about shared universe continuity.And lastly it opens the door for Crisis storylines.

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Old 12-15-2012, 02:06 PM   #73
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

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Arkham City Sequel will be a Silver Age Prequel


Variety has learned that WBIE (Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment) is set to introduce members of the Justice League of America in the next installment of Rocksteady's Batman series.


The entertainment trade magazine reports that the much-anticipated sequel to Arkham Asylum and Arkham City will, in fact, be a prequel centred on Batman's first meeting with his arch-nemesis The Joker. Stylistically, it will be based on the Silver Age era of DC comics (1956 to c.1970), when Batman first teamed up with other iconic DC heroes, like Superman and The Flash, establishing the Justice League of America


Variety claims this is part of a conscious effort by Warner Bros. to expose audiences to the Justice League of America, as it ramps up production on a JLA movie. It also reports the game will be released in 2014 at the earliest, with a JLA film mooted for a big screen release sometime in 2015.
The thing that makes me think this might be true is this. The Arkham universe was such a massive hit on every level I don't see why they would change it unless it was to help promote the JL to the general audience.

I also find it extremely annoying the Arkham universe is gone after 2 games, and if this does turn out to be the reason im going to resent this film even more.

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Old 12-15-2012, 03:08 PM   #74
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

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The thing that makes me think this might be true is this. The Arkham universe was such a massive hit on every level I don't see why they would change it unless it was to help promote the JL to the general audience.

I also find it extremely annoying the Arkham universe is gone after 2 games, and if this does turn out to be the reason im going to resent this film even more.
This is simply smart business on WB's part. They have to compensate for the fact that Flash, Wonder Woman etc won't be getting lead in solo films.

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Old 12-15-2012, 08:20 PM   #75
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Default Re: Justice League's Source Material, Issues 183-185

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The thing that makes me think this might be true is this. The Arkham universe was such a massive hit on every level I don't see why they would change it unless it was to help promote the JL to the general audience.

I also find it extremely annoying the Arkham universe is gone after 2 games, and if this does turn out to be the reason im going to resent this film even more.
I brought this up in another thread once and I think a lot of people agreed that the Arkham games would be a great template not only for Batman as he fits into Justice League, but how the new Batman reboot movies should feel in terms of tone, visual styling, pace of action, etc. Even the costume would be good for adapting to the upcoming movies.

I do hope that it does pull through and come out timely enough to get people's attention and direct it towards the JL movie.

On a note more oriented towards the game, I wonder how the JL's involvement will affect gameplay... NPC teammates? Or just for story's sake include them?

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