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Old 12-19-2012, 12:15 PM   #1
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Default If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

How would that have exactly worked? In Spider-Man 3 Dr. Curt Conners explained "I'm a physicist, not a biologist" which means he would not have had an interest in Lizard-research nor the qualifications to perform such a test to regenerate his arm.

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Old 12-20-2012, 12:20 PM   #2
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

By all accounts, it would have been the Vulture. However, to answer your question, I suppose something would have to push Curt into wanting to research regeneration. Then Curt would have to work alongside some researchers/corporation that would fund the research.

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Old 12-20-2012, 02:34 PM   #3
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

I think Lizard was so far away from Raimi's franchise after SM2 so I can't imagine how he'd do him. As you said, he made Connors a physicist instead of a biologist which I think pretty much kills it.

But let's ignore that. I think looks wise he'd be much like Lizard in ASM but maybe a bit smaller and with the clothes on. I think he'd make Lizard very fast and beastly because that's the kind of action he'd love to do.

I also think he would be very true to Connors' character, since I think that's the kind of character that would fit Raimi like a glove.

I think Raimi probably would have done Lizard better than in ASM if he'd wanted to do him, but I think Raimi wasn't that interested. Also, I think he'd think Lizard wouldn't fit in the more kid friendly tone he was going for.

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Old 12-20-2012, 04:21 PM   #4
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

Raimi was gonna have Lizard with Doc Ock in SM2 and there was a image of what he would of looked like.Basically the same thing we got but with clothes.

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Old 12-20-2012, 10:32 PM   #5
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

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Raimi was gonna have Lizard with Doc Ock in SM2 and there was a image of what he would of looked like.Basically the same thing we got but with clothes.
Sources? Do you have the image you are describing?

I think that Raimi would have had more fun with the Lizard than Webb. A lot of people bash the Raimi trilogy for being to campy, but that's just his style. Go watch Evil Dead II and see what I mean. However, I think in the long run I prefer the tone that Webb created for TASM. It doesn't feel as "fun" or comic book like, but ultimately I think it will age better.

Although Dylan Baker's Lizard was a physicist and not a biologist, perhaps that could explain why his serum was imperfect and turned him into the Lizard?

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Old 12-21-2012, 09:23 AM   #6
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

I think there are some villains that better suit Webb, and those that Raimi should handle. Lizard is probably one of them, and maybe the same for Doc Ock (since he handled him so well in Spider-Man 2).

I think Marc Webb will do a better job with Green Goblin, and I think he would pull of Venom much better.

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Old 12-21-2012, 10:36 PM   #7
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

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Sources? Do you have the image you are describing?
It was posted on here years ago. Let me see if I can find it.

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Old 12-26-2012, 12:38 AM   #8
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

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How would that have exactly worked? In Spider-Man 3 Dr. Curt Conners explained "I'm a physicist, not a biologist" which means he would not have had an interest in Lizard-research nor the qualifications to perform such a test to regenerate his arm.
Not necessarily, there's still genetics, biochemistry, and herpetology. He could still have had an interest in those things, which could lead to the Lizard serum.


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I think Lizard was so far away from Raimi's franchise after SM2 so I can't imagine how he'd do him. As you said, he made Connors a physicist instead of a biologist which I think pretty much kills it.

But let's ignore that. I think looks wise he'd be much like Lizard in ASM but maybe a bit smaller and with the clothes on. I think he'd make Lizard very fast and beastly because that's the kind of action he'd love to do.

I also think he would be very true to Connors' character, since I think that's the kind of character that would fit Raimi like a glove.

I think Raimi probably would have done Lizard better than in ASM if he'd wanted to do him, but I think Raimi wasn't that interested. Also, I think he'd think Lizard wouldn't fit in the more kid friendly tone he was going for.
I actually think Raimi's lizard would have looked just like the comic book version. Obviously he planned on doing the Lizard, otherwise why would have kept bringing Dylan Baker.

Also, the tone of his movies isn't kid friendly, it's comic book, it's big and vibrant. But there's still an underlying darkness to some of it. But then again, I thought Amazing Spider-Man was pretty underwhelming.


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Old 12-28-2012, 10:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

Webb's Lizard did resemble the first comic book version from amazing spider-man #6


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Old 12-29-2012, 06:16 PM   #10
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

I meant more of a pronounced snout.

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Old 12-29-2012, 06:19 PM   #11
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

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It was posted on here years ago. Let me see if I can find it.
Cool. I'm interested in seeing it. I'd never heard of this.

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Old 12-29-2012, 06:41 PM   #12
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

He definitely would have turned out better than anything they were thinking about putting in the monstrosity that was the fourth movie. 'Vulturess'.... just thinking about it makes me mad haha.


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Old 12-29-2012, 06:47 PM   #13
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

I think I remember those leaked images. If those were legit, he would have undoubtedly looked worse than this Lizard.

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Old 12-29-2012, 11:36 PM   #14
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

There's no real knowing though, that was only one bit of concept art.

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Old 12-30-2012, 10:02 AM   #15
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

I think Raimi doing the Lizard would have been incredible. That character fits Raimi's tone perfectly, while it was probably the weakest link in Webb's film.

Back when Lizard was a contender for a Raimi film, there was rumoured resistance on Sony's part. I've read the studio weren't too fond of a villain that far removed from human features. I read that as recently as 2010/11 when SM4 was going ahead, and speculated that it may have even been a ploy by Sony to hang on to Lizard for their planned reboot.

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Old 01-04-2013, 06:44 PM   #16
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

I really have a hard time believing that the whole Vulture/Vultress thing was a genuine plan for Spider Man 4. It seems like Raimi had already grown tired of dealing with the studio. He must have realized how the 3rd movie had fallen short and I can't imagine him truly wanting to go forward with a 4th movie in that same situation.
He didn't have enough vision or drive or whatever u want to call it to push thru his true idea of Spider-Man 3. I really believe that, in creative projects, bad things are born from lack of momentum. If he had really been into the third film and had an idea that he was on fire about, I don't think the studio would have been able to wedge Venom in. They would have backed off or been shot down because something else real would have been happening.
So it's hard to imagine anything realistic for Raimi's Spider-Man 4 because I don't think it could've happened. Outside of something outlandishly horrible just to fulfil obligations.

But it is interesting to imagine what Lizard might have been for a Spider-Man 3. I think that Raimi would've turned in a much better and more horrific version of the character. In lab coat and campier, but more like a true horror movie beast. Webb's version actually captured the physical threat and bestial menace of the Lizard pretty well, i thought. but Raimi would've been able to better get across what Connor lost in the transformation. He would've included his wife and kid and the exaggeration, the theatrics or 'camp', would've served the character better I think than Webb's more levelheaded take on him.
But you would think the same about the Green Goblin, or Venom. But, I agree with the poster above me that Webb will do a better job on both of those characters if given the chance.
I think Raimi just didn't like Venom and it came down to that. If he had latched onto the character somehow and didn't feel like he was being railroaded into something he was already working on, I think Raimi would've ruled on his version of Venom.
Why his Green Goblin didn't work, I don't know.

I would've loved to have seen a Kingpin/Enforcers/Hammerhead kind of mob movie as Raimi's first. Shocker or Electro working as muscle for some mob boss would've been perfect Raimi. Doc Ock was perfect Raimi and Mysterio would've been perfect Raimi. Scorpion would've been pretty cool too.

I'd love to see Webb do Green Goblin, Venom or a version of the clone saga. I really hope Webb's got ideas for bringing in some clone stuff. I know how awful that could possibly be, but I think if he went the Ultimate version, it'd really suit him.

Somebody besides either of them should do Kraven or Morbius.

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Old 01-05-2013, 01:13 AM   #17
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

I know Raimi has done some 'horror' films, but I highly doubt Lizard would have been that scary in SM4. Venom was stupid and campy, but he is a character that's supposed to be very scary and threatning. I doubt Raimi woulda done it, that or the studio wouldn't of allowed it.

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Old 01-05-2013, 11:48 AM   #18
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

I think had Raimi used Lizard it would be fantastic visually! I think however Lizard is one of those villains he'd never even try.

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Old 01-05-2013, 01:21 PM   #19
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

@henzINNIT - was Lizard rumored to have been a possibility? I'd never read anything definite about it, was it for the 3rd movie, the 4th or both? I'd like to hear more, if you remember anything else.

Raimi's Green Goblin just goes to show how what we might often expect from a certain matchup of director/source material can really end up way off the mark. Looking back at it, if I'd have followed this stuff like I do now, there's no way I'd believe we'd see a Goblin like that. I mean mostly as far as the costume design. I would've expected Raimi to do something a lot more physical and grotesque, like some of the alternate visions we've seen or even a bigger budget version of what the guy who made the "Peter's Web" fan film did. That's more what I would've expected Raimi to turn in.

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Old 01-05-2013, 09:13 PM   #20
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

Here are some concept art photos of what the Lizard may of looked like in SM2 via CBM.





It's interesting to see that another artist wanted to ditch the lab coat.

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Old 01-05-2013, 09:16 PM   #21
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

Alright, those I haven't seen. Don't like the 2nd one at all. The 1st one, kinda weird, I'm not feeling the long neck.

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Old 01-05-2013, 10:38 PM   #22
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

That concept art looks alright, nothing special. I actually prefer Webb's design for the Lizard.

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Old 01-06-2013, 12:32 AM   #23
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

First one looks aweful. Second one looks like A lizard, but doesn't scream THE Lizard to me.

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Old 01-06-2013, 09:11 AM   #24
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

I didn't find anything wrong with the Lizard's appearance in TASM except for the fact that he didn't wear his lab coat for more than a few seconds. There were moments where he rips it coat unnecessarily when he could have just kept it on.

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Old 01-06-2013, 10:49 AM   #25
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Default Re: If the Lizard was the villain in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4...

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Alright, those I haven't seen. Don't like the 2nd one at all. The 1st one, kinda weird, I'm not feeling the long neck.
Wasn't the one leaked photo a statue? I've looked all over for it and can't find it.

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