Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 7

[BigThor]

Loki blasted Laufey while he wasn't looking which isn't impressive, he used an ancient relic to freeze Heimdall also not impressive.

The only time Loki defeated someone is when he went up against "humans" (lame), he has YET to win a fight with a super powered opponent under his own power.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by elizah72

well let's see, he'll start out looking kind of like the white face side of this guy...


but bigger, and more with Adewale's facial features.

and then as Kurse, it sounds like he grows horns, and maybe more fangs, but keeps the hair and blue eyes? so, seems like they are combining these two looks in some fashion...

Blond hair and blue eyes as Algrim I'd assume. However, they may make it different, but Kurse isn't a physical mutation. Maybe height, and bulk. But when you look at kurse, you don't see him. All you see is the enchanted armor. Those horns are part of the helmet he wears, as are those pointy "fangs"

though based on the description, it sounds like these qualities may be more organic than armored, which would be..interesting. I feel the skull on his chest should be there. It's over the top, and badass

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Pretty sure when AAA talked about having blonde hair and blue eyes and elf ears, he meant as Algrim. Kurse's look is all enchanted armor; he doesn't mutate, per se.

yeah, bingo.

Originally Posted by elizah72

Let's see, he faired pretty decently for himself at Jotunheim, then he won the fight with Laufey (ok wasn't much of a fight but he DID win! LOL), he won a fight with Heimdall by freezing him, he won his fight against Shield in beginning of Avengers, then he pretty much kicked Captain America's butt, Cap would have been dead had Iron Man not shown up, and he may not have won but then he held his own pretty good against Thor in both Avengers and Thor 1. So... not exactly a permanent resident in that particular town, in my eyes.

I think he means fights against super powered people.

Loki has certainly been jobbed. That's for sure. He's been beaten too many times. Loki would NOT have killed Captain America. Cap knows how to defend himself, plus Loki was just playing with him.

Loki got his ass pummeled by Thor once he got a little bit mad. Thor in the MCU is decently more powerful than Loki, where in the 616 they are closer.

I personally think a serious MCU Loki could take Ironman. They seem relatively similar in strength, and Loki DOES have battle experience, and magic stark wouldn't understand.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by BigThor

Loki blasted Laufey while he wasn't looking which isn't impressive, he used an ancient relic to freeze Heimdall also not impressive.

The only time Loki defeated someone is when he went up against "humans" (lame), he has YET to win a fight with a super powered opponent under his own power.

He WAS tossing around Cap though

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Originally Posted by BigThor

Loki blasted Laufey while he wasn't looking which isn't impressive, he used an ancient relic to freeze Heimdall also not impressive.

The only time Loki defeated someone is when he went up against "humans" (lame), he has YET to win a fight with a super powered opponent under his own power.

The only power of his own he's even shown is ghost images and he beat Thor with one of those in Avengers. I would love to see more of his power. He's suposed to have his own powerful magic with out the need of other objects. However attacking from behind is classic Loki (as well as classic all other villians)so that still counts.

[elizah72]

Part of winning anything is using STRATEGY.... and attacking from behind is smart strategy, if not so impressive or playing fair. LOL As is the strategy of using the ghost images, so yeah, Loki won that "fight" against Thor when he trapped him in the cage there and then dropped him like a bad good habit. And yes Cap was not fairing well against Loki at all... (even with BW and a Jet trying to back him up). as Cap said "this guy packs a whallop."

I agree though I'm hoping to see more of his power, and maybe have him win a few fights more conclusively (and without cheating as much )

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Pretty sure when AAA talked about having blonde hair and blue eyes and elf ears, he meant as Algrim. Kurse's look is all enchanted armor; he doesn't mutate, per se.

Maybe but he says word for word...

"And both of the characters; I have blonde hair, blue eyes, pointed ears, fangs, horns; everything you could want as boy in an action hero movie. It's amazing. "

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

Blond hair and blue eyes as Algrim I'd assume. However, they may make it different, but Kurse isn't a physical mutation. Maybe height, and bulk. But when you look at kurse, you don't see him. All you see is the enchanted armor. Those horns are part of the helmet he wears, as are those pointy "fangs"

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Pretty sure when AAA talked about having blonde hair and blue eyes and elf ears, he meant as Algrim. Kurse's look is all enchanted armor; he doesn't mutate, per se.

Originally Posted by elizah72

Maybe but he says word for word...

"And both of the characters; I have blonde hair, blue eyes, pointed ears, fangs, horns; everything you could want as boy in an action hero movie. It's amazing. "

I think we'd all agree that Algrim is not likely to have fangs and horns. So by the structure of the sentence, it's likely that he does not have blond hair and blue eyes as Kurse. But it *could* be that way, which would be interesting, imo.

Regarding mutation, I agree that the books depict his armor, presumably enchanted. That said. . .

Originally Posted by jaqua99

though based on the description, it sounds like these qualities may be more organic than armored, which would be..interesting. I feel the skull on his chest should be there. It's over the top, and badass

Making them organic, integral to his body, would be different and potentially creepier. And if they want to go with the idea of Algrim struggling with "what am I now?", having these things part of his body would sharpen that horror.

If they do make these features organic, then it would not be over the top at all to have the skull on his chest. I'd be in favor of that! lol

Originally Posted by elizah72

Part of winning anything is using STRATEGY.... and attacking from behind is smart strategy, if not so impressive or playing fair. LOL

Or, as Thor put it (in Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes), fighting without honor.

Originally Posted by elizah72

As is the strategy of using the ghost images, so yeah, Loki won that "fight" against Thor when he trapped him in the cage there and then dropped him like a bad good habit.

Hey, those ghost images worked against Surtur. So why not?

[elizah72]

This is interesting, talk of Thor Dark World on location at Bourne at about 10:30 and a piece from the set is shown, then 15:10

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

[elizah72]

That Christos Gage written Thor movie comic is supposed to be out tomorrow. I don't see it listed on the marvel digital site yet even though there are several out tomorrow up for a presell. Anyone heard if it's been pushed back? (hoping it'll be added on that site tomorrow)
http://mobilestore.marvel.com/new-co...ate=2013-01-16

Information on it from Jan 3rd
http://whedonesque.com/comments/30212

Christos Gage ‏@Christosgage Yeah, the Thor prelude bridges the first Thor film and the next one. Very character focused!

my local comics store is sort of questionable so I have my doubts it'll be there tomorrow.

[BoredGuy]

that interview with AAA got me pretty psyched
tho it's sounding more and more like Loki is going to be a very main part in this film
I was hoping for a more Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lambs type thing for Loki
But hey, i guess there's nothing wrong with some extra Hiddles-fun

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by BoredGuy

that interview with AAA got me pretty psyched
tho it's sounding more and more like Loki is going to be a very main part in this film
I was hoping for a more Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lambs type thing for Loki
But hey, i guess there's nothing wrong with some extra Hiddles-fun

Think of all the tickets that will sell, funding special effects in future movies.

Very excited for this movie!!

[Doc Ock]

I'm hoping Thor:TDW does as well as Iron Man 3. I think its a given IR3 will be a hit at the box office and I know Thor did decent but I want Thor 2 to dominate the box office in a surprising way much like The Avengers did. Not Avengers numbers but just be a big positive surprise for critics and the GA.

[spideymouse]

Originally Posted by Doc Ock

I'm hoping Thor:TDW does as well as Iron Man 3. I think its a given IR3 will be a hit at the box office and I know Thor did decent but I want Thor 2 to dominate the box office in a surprising way much like The Avengers did. Not Avengers numbers but just be a big positive surprise for critics and the GA.

It'll need to do really well in its first two weeks, given that everyone will be watching the Hunger Games sequel in its third weekend and beyond. But there should be enough pie to go around between the two of them. Thor did quite well overseas, and with much of the sequel taking place/being shot in Europe, I don't see that trend breaking with this one.

[BigThor]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

He WAS tossing around Cap though

Who is a "human", just one that's in peak condition which still isn't impressive for someone as powerful as an Asgardian.

Originally Posted by The_Mighty_Thor

The only power of his own he's even shown is ghost images and he beat Thor with one of those in Avengers. I would love to see more of his power. He's suposed to have his own powerful magic with out the need of other objects. However attacking from behind is classic Loki (as well as classic all other villians)so that still counts.

Woah, he didn't beat Thor with it he merely used it to trick Thor into diving into the "Hulk cage" .

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by BigThor

Who is a "human", just one that's in peak condition which still isn't impressive for someone as powerful as an Asgardian.



Woah, he didn't beat Thor with it he merely used it to trick Thor into diving into the "Hulk cage" .

Yeah. I wouldn't say Loki "holds his own" against Thor. When Thor actually got a little bit pissed he kinda gave Loki a big brother pummeling. I wouldn't say his fights against Thor are that meaningful, regarding feats. Unfortunately, Thor and Loki seem to operate on totally different power levels. A repulsor blast was able to get Loki to surrender (though probably part of his plan). Thor took a combination of a repulsor blast, and a unibeam from an amped ironman, who wsa amped up to 475%. It knocked him off his feat, but all it did was result in thor get a little more pissed.

Loki's durability has been rather impressive though. But in regards to his powers and abilities offensively, he's been really dissappointing, and hopefully that changes in Thor: The Dark World

[Wolvieboy17]

I like that Loki hasn't been THAT powerful. He's been formidable and skilled, sure but i think they way he's been portrayed, it will make his pursuit of power more necessary. In fact, a pursuit of power that could bring about ragnarok? That would be a cool way to go.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by Wolvieboy17

I like that Loki hasn't been THAT powerful. He's been formidable and skilled, sure but i think they way he's been portrayed, it will make his pursuit of power more necessary. In fact, a pursuit of power that could bring about ragnarok? That would be a cool way to go.

i know but I mean, neing not THAT powerful is one thing, and having like one or two abilities, and no offense essentially, is another

[Wolvieboy17]

First of all, being a master of illusion isn't 'one ability'. He can disguise himself, other things, fabricate things etc Also I seem to recall him taking out a room of guards and blowing up a chopper with no trouble at all.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by Wolvieboy17

First of all, being a master of illusion isn't 'one ability'. He can disguise himself, other things, fabricate things etc Also I seem to recall him taking out a room of guards and blowing up a chopper with no trouble at all.

not what I meant. Again, yes, creating projections of himself is illusions, but when has he disguised himself, or fabricate things? What magical abilities has he done in the MCU? He certainly hasn't done anything like he has in the comics.

He took on the room of guards, but I think most of us here were talking about his offense against other super powered beings.

Also, blowing up the chopper, that was with his sceptor, not under his own power/abilities.

Lets make a list of what we have seen him do, (i'm not being sarcastic, just in case my tone is missed) and please correct me if I am missing any

His illusions/projections
Teleportation (as he got to Thor in shield's base in Thor 1)
Invisibility (as no one saw him when he went to Thor)
Matter manipulation, unless we don't count him turning wine into snakes as canon
edit: forgot to mention, he does have respectible physical strength, for sure

has he done anything else? again, to me, not that impressive, I would ope for a little more. Showing his master of magic, spells, energy blasts, mind control without a sceptor. things like that, it would have no problem fitting into the MCU

[Wolvieboy17]

Well first of all, I don't think it's right to assume a character is only capable of what we see on screen. I think his powers of illusion are probably much more powerful than a lot of what you mentioned, it just depends how creatively it's used.

I mean look at Magneto. It's just one power he has, but depending on how it's used you can get the uncreative X3 'flipping cars' approach or you can have the brilliant X2 escape scene or the X1 guns and bullets.

Same with Loki, he is clearly capable of all forms of illusions. The canned snake scene shows that the creators had this in mind, and you see hints of it in other places. For instance, in the SHIELD base, he's clearly not 'invisible' as in, the power of invisibility but rather it's an illusion he's put on the whole base. He's either tricked them into not thinking he's there or he's erasing the visual evidence. Either way, that shows some form matter control or perception control.

We can see this again, with his manipulation of people in the after credits scene of Thor, with Selvig which is either mind control or the same perception illusion as before. We also briefly see him materialise the Casket of Winter when he freezes Heimdall.

Then there is the aspect in Avengers of whether Loki was or wasn't influencing Banner. You see him looking at Banner and Banner reacting with a headache or something. It's still not clear whether he actually used powers on that but either way, thats a possibility.

Then also in Avengers, in Germany, it's also unclear on whether Loki simply drops an illusion (when his armour appears) or whether he just completely materialises his armour.

So, either way, I don't think it's fair to definitively say how much or little power he has, I think they're portraying Loki perfectly, because that's how it's always been in the comics. He makes a play, gets beaten, throws his hands up and plays sincere then we Thor least expects it, makes another play, revealing another power or tactic and trying again.

Every time he fails, he comes back stronger, with more bitterness and hatred in him. That's what is great about the character... Thor always has love and forgiveness in his heart when fighting Loki but everytime he overcomes Loki, he just cements the darkness and hatred in his heart.

I think escalating his power level with each appearance is a good way to show the escalation of his intent for destruction (which obviously, could culminate in Ragnarok)

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by Wolvieboy17

Well first of all, I don't think it's right to assume a character is only capable of what we see on screen. I think his powers of illusion are probably much more powerful than a lot of what you mentioned, it just depends how creatively it's used.

I mean look at Magneto. It's just one power he has, but depending on how it's used you can get the uncreative X3 'flipping cars' approach or you can have the brilliant X2 escape scene or the X1 guns and bullets.

Same with Loki, he is clearly capable of all forms of illusions. The canned snake scene shows that the creators had this in mind, and you see hints of it in other places. For instance, in the SHIELD base, he's clearly not 'invisible' as in, the power of invisibility but rather it's an illusion he's put on the whole base. He's either tricked them into not thinking he's there or he's erasing the visual evidence. Either way, that shows some form matter control or perception control.

We can see this again, with his manipulation of people in the after credits scene of Thor, with Selvig which is either mind control or the same perception illusion as before. We also briefly see him materialise the Casket of Winter when he freezes Heimdall.

Then there is the aspect in Avengers of whether Loki was or wasn't influencing Banner. You see him looking at Banner and Banner reacting with a headache or something. It's still not clear whether he actually used powers on that but either way, thats a possibility.

Then also in Avengers, in Germany, it's also unclear on whether Loki simply drops an illusion (when his armour appears) or whether he just completely materialises his armour.

So, either way, I don't think it's fair to definitively say how much or little power he has, I think they're portraying Loki perfectly, because that's how it's always been in the comics. He makes a play, gets beaten, throws his hands up and plays sincere then we Thor least expects it, makes another play, revealing another power or tactic and trying again.

Every time he fails, he comes back stronger, with more bitterness and hatred in him. That's what is great about the character... Thor always has love and forgiveness in his heart when fighting Loki but everytime he overcomes Loki, he just cements the darkness and hatred in his heart.

I think escalating his power level with each appearance is a good way to show the escalation of his intent for destruction (which obviously, could culminate in Ragnarok)

Very true. I suppose some of us, or atleast myself would like to see him do a little bit more. I'd assume that since he was referred to as a "master of magic" that there is more to his abilities than we have seen. It's just, I would have hoped to see him do just a little bit more at this point. I mean, the oppritunity hasn't really presented itself, I suppose, because most of his stuff has been through manipulation, and his scheming.

I do tend to think that he DID cause the first Hulk out. I don't know.

I think the whole, Hulk rag dolling loki thing kind of bothers me the most, that and that he surrendered to ironman, and got beat to the punch. I do think MCU Loki can take any ironman we have seen the MCU so far.

and when I say invisibility, that's what I mean. I don't mean in the sense that he is literally bending photons around his body to the point where he is "invisible", I meant it in the sense that you did. making them not know he is physically there, due to illusions. So I suppse.

I did forget about the selvig thing, so that would cerainly suggest that he has some abilities to influence other people.

I suppose I may be a bit bitter just because of him being tricked by the black widow, surrendering to ironman (though it actually probably was his plan.) getting ragdolled by the hulk, things like that.

He was the villain of the movie, and it was an avengers movie, not a loki movie, so I suppose he would be at the mercy.

Honestly, I would just like to see him use a bit more of his abilities in some combat I guess. Which I am sure we will. I'd just like to see a bit more, regarding what he has up his sleeves, not from a planning stand point, but from a magical stand point regarding his own sorcery.

[Wolvieboy17]

To be honest, I think things like him getting defeated by Hulk and tricked by Widow wasn't so much that they were stronger than him but more that Loki was arrogantly underestimating them all in a MASSIVE way, which will clearly be a mistake he won't make again. He helped to defeat himself with his own hubris. That's why I liked his character arc in Avengers because in many ways, he had the learn the same lesson Thor learnt in 'Thor' but he hadn't yet. He was still young and immature by the end of Thor and I feel like 'Avengers' was him learning that lesson. That's why Thor comes off as stronger than him in Avengers, because he has gained more wisdom. This definitely comes across in their scene on the mountain and I think that dynamic of their relationship will be explored further in Thor 2. It's going to be a HUGE sore point with Loki, because it will seem more and more like Thor hasn't been favoured as King because he's the favourite but because he's simply more capable and that will be cause for more bitterness.

[BigThor]

Originally Posted by Wolvieboy17

Well first of all, I don't think it's right to assume a character is only capable of what we see on screen. I think his powers of illusion are probably much more powerful than a lot of what you mentioned, it just depends how creatively it's used.

I mean look at Magneto. It's just one power he has, but depending on how it's used you can get the uncreative X3 'flipping cars' approach or you can have the brilliant X2 escape scene or the X1 guns and bullets.

Same with Loki, he is clearly capable of all forms of illusions. The canned snake scene shows that the creators had this in mind, and you see hints of it in other places. For instance, in the SHIELD base, he's clearly not 'invisible' as in, the power of invisibility but rather it's an illusion he's put on the whole base. He's either tricked them into not thinking he's there or he's erasing the visual evidence. Either way, that shows some form matter control or perception control.

We can see this again, with his manipulation of people in the after credits scene of Thor, with Selvig which is either mind control or the same perception illusion as before. We also briefly see him materialise the Casket of Winter when he freezes Heimdall.

Then there is the aspect in Avengers of whether Loki was or wasn't influencing Banner. You see him looking at Banner and Banner reacting with a headache or something. It's still not clear whether he actually used powers on that but either way, thats a possibility.

Then also in Avengers, in Germany, it's also unclear on whether Loki simply drops an illusion (when his armour appears) or whether he just completely materialises his armour.

So, either way, I don't think it's fair to definitively say how much or little power he has, I think they're portraying Loki perfectly, because that's how it's always been in the comics. He makes a play, gets beaten, throws his hands up and plays sincere then we Thor least expects it, makes another play, revealing another power or tactic and trying again.

Every time he fails, he comes back stronger, with more bitterness and hatred in him. That's what is great about the character... Thor always has love and forgiveness in his heart when fighting Loki but everytime he overcomes Loki, he just cements the darkness and hatred in his heart.

I think escalating his power level with each appearance is a good way to show the escalation of his intent for destruction (which obviously, could culminate in Ragnarok)

You make some very good points Wolvie, I would definately like to see Loki increase in power with each appearance.

[elizah72]

uhhh... bummer that Thor comic by Christos Gage is up on marvel.com now it is just a straight up adaptation of the Thor movie apparently, I was under the impression that it might be transitional between Thor 1 and 2, but it's the first half of Thor 1, so the 2nd the second half of Thor 1. Boo-hiss...

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by BigThor

You make some very good points Wolvie, I would definately like to see Loki increase in power with each appearance.

yeah. I mean, malekith seems to be using a lot of magic, so I would except to see a little bit more of the sorcery side of him as well.

As for Hulk and widow, it may have been for the sake of the story, and his arrogance.

But regarding the widow scene, she literally did nothing. He spoke his mind, and he dug inside her head, and it really ate her up, as we saw when she talked to barton after. After he ranted about humanity (and said nothing about the hulk) she said, "you're a monster" and he said, "no, you brought the monster" and she takes that as him "planning to unleash the hulk"? his response was..."what?" I don't understand how she could percieve that as him accidentally revealing his plan. She called him a monster, and he responds with, you brought the monster. I had the same reaction when she "figured it out" I was like...what? The only trick she pulled was pretending to be emotionally hurt, which in fact, she really was, as we saw how it affected her. But I don't understand how that can be her tricking him.

I actually sort of feel like SHE is the one who gave HIM the idea right there for him to USE the hulk. Which is why she was so shaken after the hulk attacked her, because she realized it was her fault.