All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

[FilmNerdJamie]

Originally Posted by Dr.

TDKR was a sequel to a hugely popular predecessor. Best case, I’d put MOS in the unknown/blank slate category - like the first Iron Man. And if it’s lucky, MOS will do Iron Man numbers (not too shabby at all).

And Batman Begins did pretty tepid overseas while it was big here. And those numbers increased considerably thanks to folks warming up to Begins.

Foolish to expect killer grosses for the first (in a possible series) Superman film because of the third (and final) Batman film. Apples and oranges.

[moviefreak]

Originally Posted by Moridin

It doesn't really matter all that much how familiar the general audience is with a character. If anyone knew the name "Thor" before that movie came out in '11 it would more than likely be as "some obscure Scandanavian myth", not Marvels version. Same with Iron Man, nobody GA knew or cared about him before 2008.

GL didn't fail because of lack of name recognition.



That's an extremely optimistic prediction.

I loled at the last image. Well, not exactly zero negative feedback, there will be some so-and-so and a few bad reviews. My box office prediction may sound optimistic, but it is good enough for me as long as the film is very good. I have a feeling that a lot of people are underestimating MOS. Iron Man did well because it was well received while Green Lantern was not. It also had a lot to do with RJD. The trailer for Green Lantern definitely put me off, this coupled with early bad review.

[Dr.]

Originally Posted by FilmNerdJamie

Foolish to expect killer grosses for the first (in a possible series) Superman film because of the third (and final) Batman film. Apples and oranges.

With Supes, it’s especially tricky. On the one hand, he’s got “brand recognition” that beats most characters hands down. That’s an enviable advantage. On the other, he’s got the baggage of several underperforming movies and the perception that he’s passé, old-fashioned, less cool than the new guys, etc. That’s a disadvantage. So maybe those two cancel out. And that leaves MOS at square one - having to earn its success by intrinsic merit. So by that reckoning, yeah, $1B seems very optimistic.

[moviefreak]

Originally Posted by FilmNerdJamie

And Batman Begins did pretty tepid overseas while it was big here. And those numbers increased considerably thanks to folks warming up to Begins.

Foolish to expect killer grosses for the first (in a possible series) Superman film because of the third (and final) Batman film. Apples and oranges.

Batman Begins was released in 2005. This Nolan film kick-started the latest trend in high grossing comic book films. Anything related to Nolan and Marvels are now likely box office gold, at least in my view. The only unknown is Zack Snyder.

[SuperMike335!!]

Batman Begins does bring up an interesting point. It did well, even though the most recent incarnation was Batman and Robin.

That movie was so bad it made Godfather3 look Oscar worthy.

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I have a feeling WB will be keeping their expectations in check with MOS...

Between the development hell budgets and ridiculously high predictions for Superman Returns (Was it Mark Millar who was predicting it could be the next Titanic box office wise?), it was bound to disappoint and struggle in the ''sequel-arena''.

Nolan's Batman franchise started off in the same humble beginnings... so if they play the cards correctly and close to their chests... who knows where the big screen Superman could end up?

[Excelsior.]

Originally Posted by moviefreak

Batman Begins was released in 2005. This Nolan film kick-started the latest trend in high grossing comic book films. Anything related to Nolan and Marvels are now likely box office gold, at least in my view. The only unknown is Zack Snyder.

Raimi started the trend of high grossing comic book films. Not Nolan.

[lixdexia]

Originally Posted by Excelsior.

Raimi started the trend of high grossing comic book films. Not Nolan.

Donner started the trend of high grossing comic book films. Not Raimi.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Well it damn sure wasn't Nolan that's forsure.

[lixdexia]

who cares?

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Quite a few directors in the 2000's had high grossing comic book films, what does that have to do with MOS?

[C. Lee]

Originally Posted by lixdexia

who cares?

The people who can't just want for a comic book movie to be well made and do well....it must be a comic book movie only of their favorite character/their preferred comic book company/their preferred director/etc....and it must push all others in the dirt and laugh at them.....because you can not just want all to be good.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Originally Posted by lixdexia

who cares?

It really isn't important to be fair.

[Project862006]

Superman is too powerful to be an interesting character. lands #1 spot on The 50 Most Boring Opinions in Geek Culture

1. Superman is too powerful to be an interesting character.
Yeah, this gets to land at #1, both because its one of the oldest and because it's among the most tiresome.
Setting aside the fact that the trials and tribulations of literal gods informs the plots of some of the most celebrated works of human drama, the notion of this particular character being too assured of victory befuddles me given that he exists in a genre wherein the hero being assured victory has generally been part of the appeal since the beginning. Is Superman "always winning" because he's got alien super-strength really fundamentally different from Batman or Wolverine "always winning" because they're just so awesome?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/arti...ture-Part-II.2

[Doc Ock]

Originally Posted by Project862006

Superman is too powerful to be an interesting character. lands #1 spot on The 50 Most Boring Opinions in Geek Culture

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/arti...ture-Part-II.2

The sad thing is...I used to have the same opinion throughout high school...until I actually discovered the character through comics, Smallville(shut up, I like it ), and numerous animated shows/films.

Now I view Superman as one of my favorites and one of the greatest superheroes of all time, but yeah that used to be me. Turns out Superman is actually one of the most interesting characters of them all in my eyes.

[SuperMike335!!]

Originally Posted by Doc Ock

The sad thing is...I used to have the same opinion throughout high school...until I actually discovered the character through comics, Smallville(shut up, I like it ), and numerous animated shows/films.

Now I view Superman as one of my favorites and one of the greatest superheroes of all time, but yeah that used to be me. Turns out Superman is actually one of the most interesting characters of them all in my eyes.

The whole "not Interesting because too powerful" is a perfect example of consensus trance meme.

This is a repeater, that very few people actually Question.

As was just pointed out, some of the greatest human stories ever written were about GODS.

Often one seemingly smart person says something, and everyone simply takes it as correct or profound, without ever THINKING about it.

Here are two other examples;

1. "Life always finds a way". Because in Jurassic Park Ian Malcom pinches out this litte penut encrusted nugget of wisdom.

Are we talking living cells such as fungus that lives inside of rocks? No we were talking about friggin Dinosaurs. Fact is that 99+% of life known to have lived on this planet is EXTINCT. The very dinosaurs he was talking about had already gone extinct. Life rarely ever finds a way, at least when it comes to higher organisms. Animals go extinct all the time due to simple changes in climate or environment.

This is a line that people repeat OVER and OVER again, without ever thinking about it or even questioning it.

2. Money is the root of all evil.

Does a piss poor job of explaining why a man killing another for sleeping with his wife. Not too good as a motive for rape, OR the most common reason for murder in recorded history "he is praying wrong".

"Superman is too powerful to be interesting" is one Fanboys will fling like Angry chimps, but never actually THINK about either.

[Excelsior.]

Originally Posted by lixdexia

Donner started the trend of high grossing comic book films. Not Raimi.

Donner didn't start any trend. We wouldn't see another comic property after his Superman for eleven years.

[lixdexia]

Originally Posted by Excelsior.

Donner didn't start any trend. We wouldn't see another comic property after his Superman for eleven years.

well we certainty didn't see any before.

so in short, no one gives a **** who started what, come off it.

[herolee10]

It's kind of funny for me to think at times that MOS will likely be the most realistic approach towards Superman as a character and his real world settings compared to previous films, but at the same time, will incorporate more Sci-Fi elements than any previous films as well.lol

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by Excelsior.

Donner didn't start any trend. We wouldn't see another comic property after his Superman for eleven years.

Originally Posted by lixdexia

well we certainty didn't see any before.

so in short, no one gives a **** who started what, come off it.

Well tbh; he was responsible for setting off the notion that films within the comic book genre had more potential to them than what most may have believed at that time, and he was the first to approach the material on a more serious take than his predecessors before him; especially with having gained such high level stars at that time to act as a supporting cast to the titular hero, which is a model that directors after him would follow as well.

[Showtime]

Originally Posted by Project862006

Superman is too powerful to be an interesting character. lands #1 spot on The 50 Most Boring Opinions in Geek Culture

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/arti...ture-Part-II.2

Well I think that is a concern, although I don't feel that way. I feel the opposite, that is what makes him the most interesting character. So much more you can do with him. It's limitless.

I do however think the real problem is that other characters have been doing a lot of what Superman can do on screen. Iron Man, Thor, Hulk..so the general public could get a "been there, done that" feeling.

[Coca Cola Duracell Franklin.]

Originally Posted by HighFivingMF

Ghost Rider.

Which is silly. Green Lantern is awesome. Ghost Rider is... I don't know. Didn't watch it.

I saw it. It was pretty terrible. Better than Batman and Robin, worse than Batman Forever.

Green Lantern was actually a very good movie. I can't believe it only made 220 million worldwide. Maybe having "The Green Hornet" release just a few months prior, along with Thor and Captain America kind of whittled down the excitement. End of summer movies usually don't soar high.

[herolee10]

I wonder though, given Superman's almost limitless powers, how do you involve him in a scene that raises the suspense in making the audience wonder if he's going to be able to stop a villain and save someone just in time in a fast pace style without taking a huge chunk out of the budget for the CGI that'll be involved as well?

[Dr.]

Originally Posted by SuperMike335!!

The whole "not Interesting because too powerful" is a perfect example of consensus trance meme.

This is a repeater, that very few people actually Question.

As was just pointed out, some of the greatest human stories ever written were about GODS.

Often one seemingly smart person says something, and everyone simply takes it as correct or profound, without ever THINKING about it.
"Superman is too powerful to be interesting" is one Fanboys will fling like Angry chimps, but never actually THINK about either.

Possibly true on factual grounds. But the meme certainly exists and, in this case, (mis)perception may define reality. Even ardent fans would, I think, stipulate that Supes has an image/PR problem - that he’s actually more interesting than folks given him credit for. You can’t, though, just dispute the charge as unfair (the general public has no interest in a debate); rather, you have to deal with the image problem.

And it’s not entirely misperception. The Reeve films were enormously influential in terms of pop cultural awareness. And from them, we learned that Supes: can spin the Earth backwards and turn back time; can perform amnesia kisses when the plot gets complicated; and can, at crisis moments, exhibit completely unprecedented superpowers (the cellophane , Great Wall of China vision, etc.).

So “too powerful to be interesting” has some validity - and it’s somewhat self-inflicted.

[Zionite1]

Originally Posted by Dr.

And it’s not entirely misperception. The Reeve films were enormously influential in terms of pop cultural awareness. And from them, we learned that Supes: can spin the Earth backwards and turn back time; can perform amnesia kisses when the plot gets complicated; and can, at crisis moments, exhibit completely unprecedented superpowers (the cellophane , Great Wall of China vision, etc.).

So “too powerful to be interesting” has some validity - and it’s somewhat self-inflicted.

Bolded made me lol.

But yeah youre right-as much as fans love them the Silverage Superman/Donner movies are responsible for all the misconceptions of the character.And they a sadly the most popular