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Old 04-16-2013, 11:23 AM   #726
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Default Re: The Gaming Lounge: Beyond - Part 5

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Originally Posted by Iceman View Post

They hold loads of sports licenses and it creates a monopoly as other games can’t use real player names, real tournaments, real stadiums etc. Too much of a disadvantage for a new game to try and compete.
What "loads" of sport licenses? The only exclusive deals they have are with the NFL, a deal brought up BY THE NFL! And I believe they are also exclusive with FIFA and the PGA, but thats clearly a win win as FIFA has dramatically gained in popularity and revenue. People think that EA just goes out and buys all these licenses when thats just not the case. Most often its the sport that brings up the idea of exclusivity.

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Also do you know about FIFA microtransactions? And remember when all those Xbox accounts were hacked? The FIFA microtransactions were the reason and the method for XBox accounts being hacked & some for quite a lot of money. And it is all for something the game doesn’t need. The crazy grind was introduced in that game unlike previous games in the series just so that microtransactions could be sold. It’s ruined that part of the game completely as the only way to get the squad you need is by paying a ****load of money or playing it for 10 years straight. These things are now traded on ebay and elsewhere and noone knows whether the source is legit or hacked from an innocent person’s account. Of course no resolution or pulling off the transactions from EA (makes no difference to them if bought genuinely or if someone else uses your account to buy them)…just makes too much money!
You kind of blew a whole in your argument with your last sentence. IT MAKES MONEY. Meaning people are purchasing those packs, not because they have to, but because they want to. Those Ultimate team packs are wildly popular among the FIFA enthusiasts. You also cant blame EA for the hacking, thats on MS, not EA. EA cant help that their game is super popular and thus a target for hacking and theft.

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Old 04-16-2013, 11:39 AM   #727
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Default Re: The Gaming Lounge: Beyond - Part 5

Pat is right. In terms of sports games, EA (unless you guys think they still have a basketball franchise) is only really behind in football. Soccer, hockey, golf, and other sports games by EA in recent memory have been very well received.

The only reason EA has exclusive NFL rights is because the NFL went to them first because they felt slighted about 2K Sports making NFL 2k5 $20 and they felt 2K sports costs millions of dollars by undermining the market. It makes sense from NFL's standpoint though.

Do they still even have NCAA exclusive rights?

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Old 04-16-2013, 02:39 PM   #728
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Default Re: The Gaming Lounge: Beyond - Part 5

Pat, imagine if EA owned Gears of War & not via Epic Games, if it was their own product and they didn’t have to worry about how the studio underneath would react to their practises. You'd be stuck with Judgment multiplayer only for the franchise as GoW3 is from 2011.

Thankfully they’re not so I’ll be able to enjoy Horde & multiplayer on all the previous games that I loved for who knows how long (& a lot longer on the non server side)…& never play Judgment multiplayer again!

And you’re putting a fair amount of effort into defending them, but you joined in on suing them for anti-competitive practises like the ones I’m talking about? Lol dude.
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What "loads" of sport licenses? The only exclusive deals they have are with the NFL, a deal brought up BY THE NFL! And I believe they are also exclusive with FIFA and the PGA, but thats clearly a win win as FIFA has dramatically gained in popularity and revenue. People think that EA just goes out and buys all these licenses when thats just not the case. Most often its the sport that brings up the idea of exclusivity.
They have tonnes of separate licenses with all the different bodies, leagues, & for individual club & national tournaments & even individual teams within the same sport. “FIFA” is only one football body. That’s why they can cover clubs & international teams from so many individual countries and leagues around the world. Also why they can make more than 1 game a year in the FIFA series. Regular FIFA, European Championships, World Cup, Road to World Cup, managerial games in various territories while others can’t touch those without changing the names for everything. Those are all separate licenses.

Pro evolution Soccer dominated football games for quite a while until FIFA finally put out a comparable quality game (was terrible before this gen) and then everyone jumped ship almost overnight because they had nearly all the licensed players & team around the world while Pro Evo had hardly any, although this has increased massively on earlier years but still nowhere near as many as FIFA has. Fact of UK football gaming history

I don’t know as much as you guys on how licensing works on US sports but it’s probably a lot easier to manage with only 1 main country, 1 or 2 governing bodies per sport? and less leagues to worry about. Even then don’t they have or at least had licenses for college football & basketball (don’t know about baseball). So a crazy number of “soccer” licenses (which is the only truly international sport at club level & licensing as a result complex), NFL, AFL & NCAA (maybe not any more), PGA Tour, Rugby Union, Australian Football, NASCAR (before it expired). They’ve had MLB rights in the past although lost out on them since. Also have non-exclusive licenses in nearly every other sport in the world which means other sports companies can only pay up and attack them on one or 2 sports at a time rather than provide actual overall competition. There’s probably more that I don’t know of/can’t think of but yeah in summary “loads” as in far far more than any other games company to the point where it is difficult to compete and many of those other companies have admitted so.

Kind of getting bored with being called out & doubted when I talk about this stuff so here’s a link on the licenses that PES managed to get for 2013 all of which were nothing compared to the number FIFA secured & this is isn't a simple case of those associations seeking EA out, but more to do with highest bidder wins.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...-top-divisions
Quote:
Konami has announced a raft of licensed teams for upcoming football game PES 2013 - 150 to be exact.
Quote:
The Spanish league is included in its entirety alongside all the clubs from Italian league Serie A.
Konami has done individual deals with Manchester United, Bayern Munich, FC Porto, AEK Athens, Galatasaray Istanbul, Shahktar Donetsk, FC Kopenhagen, Zenit St Petersburg, CSKA Moscow, RSC Anderlecht, Dinamo Kyiv and Dinamo Zagreb, among others.
PES has for a number of years now included just a couple of licensed Premier League teams. This year it looks like only one, Manchester United, has been secured.
17 more national teams have been added, including England, Italy, Germany and France. Konami promised to announce more details on these soon.
Meanwhile, Konami has extended its exclusive agreement with UEFA for the use of the Champions League and UEFA Europa League for PES 2013.
In June European PES team leader Jon Murphy told Eurogamer that Konami can't compete with FIFA maker EA on licenses.

"There are obviously a lot of existing contacts between EA and who they deal with and a lot of trust between them, and there's a lot of money changing hands, and trying to break into those situations is very hard," he said. "At the same time it should be pretty obvious that we can't compete with the massive budgets they have to throw at these things.
"So, for example, with the Premier League, we've opened up negotiations with them in the past and we've got quite close to what we thought was a good offer. It went to EA exclusively. And then after that EA have been dealing directly with the clubs themselves to lock us out of individual club deals as well. So there are several layers we have to be trying to fight through."



Quote:
You kind of blew a whole in your argument with your last sentence. IT MAKES MONEY. Meaning people are purchasing those packs, not because they have to, but because they want to. Those Ultimate team packs are wildly popular among the FIFA enthusiasts. You also cant blame EA for the hacking, thats on MS, not EA. EA cant help that their game is super popular and thus a target for hacking and theft.
And you kind of blew your argument in your 1st (2nd) sentence!

(I am a FIFA enthusiast as are the vast majority of my friends)

Those packs are pay-to-make-progress instead of playing so of course they’re popular with all those who want to buy it, skip the grind and still have the best teams and unpopular with everyone else who wants a fair playing field, especially as the grind brought in to attain a top squad legit has been made artificially super-long to encourage more packs to be bought. This is crap for the regular FIFA players & for me it’s not even worth playing that mode at all now.

I think you’d understand this better if they did it on a game you liked (unless you also want to pay your way to victory). So to unlock the top weapons in a shooter that give a material advantage (like getting the top FIFA squad does), the developer introduces a massive grind but one that can be bypassed by paying multiple times to unlock access. Great and quite an advantage if you’re prepared to/can afford to pay and not fun if you’re not. Grinds in general for EA games will become longer as the company wants the norm to be that everyone pays or suffers. It’s monetising gaming in the wrong way unlike having unlimited microtransactions for skins & customizing your character/weapons in a non advantageous way that does no harm.

On "IT MAKES MONEY":
If the government started selling microtransactions enabling people to hit others they don’t like or steal money or force your employer to pay you double and the law would turn a blind eye, it would be extremely popular with all those who wanted to buy one and terrible for others! If EA were govt this might be a possibility and when you call 999/911 it would take 2 hours for someone to understand (but not resolve) what the problem is.

I’ve got plenty more to say on EA related issues (especially the hacking & EA support) that is relevant (& that I’ve just deleted) but I’ve gone on way too long already & we should probably kill this off asap so as not to piss everyone else off. Aside from the games themselves which are mostly good, my experiences with this company when there’s no developing studio like DICE underneath to help me out have been terrible.

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Old 04-16-2013, 02:47 PM   #729
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Default Re: The Gaming Lounge: Beyond - Part 5

Why PlatinumGames’ President Left His Job At Capcom. April 16, 2013 . 12:30pm

PlatinumGames president Tatsuya Minami used to work at Capcom, like a lot of other Platinum staff members.




source Siliconera

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Old 04-16-2013, 03:34 PM   #730
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Default Re: The Gaming Lounge: Beyond - Part 5

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Why PlatinumGames’ President Left His Job At Capcom. April 16, 2013 . 12:30pm

PlatinumGames president Tatsuya Minami used to work at Capcom, like a lot of other Platinum staff members.




source Siliconera
At least that explains why Bayonetta reminds me of Devil May Cry 4, even if it was released more than a year after the initiation of Platinum Games

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Old 04-16-2013, 03:37 PM   #731
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oh you must have missed that time, I put up that video fro EPD.TV/ROTR where they showed they (PlatinumGames) were what made Res4 and DMC great at that time there. but yeah that is the deal .

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Old 04-16-2013, 04:12 PM   #732
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Default Re: The Gaming Lounge: Beyond - Part 5

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And you kind of blew your argument in your 1st (2nd) sentence!

(I am a FIFA enthusiast as are the vast majority of my friends)

Those packs are pay-to-make-progress instead of playing so of course they’re popular with all those who want to buy it, skip the grind and still have the best teams and unpopular with everyone else who wants a fair playing field, especially as the grind brought in to attain a top squad legit has been made artificially super-long to encourage more packs to be bought. This is crap for the regular FIFA players & for me it’s not even worth playing that mode at all now.

I think you’d understand this better if they did it on a game you liked (unless you also want to pay your way to victory). So to unlock the top weapons in a shooter that give a material advantage (like getting the top FIFA squad does), the developer introduces a massive grind but one that can be bypassed by paying multiple times to unlock access. Great and quite an advantage if you’re prepared to/can afford to pay and not fun if you’re not. Grinds in general for EA games will become longer as the company wants the norm to be that everyone pays or suffers. It’s monetising gaming in the wrong way unlike having unlimited microtransactions for skins & customizing your character/weapons in a non advantageous way that does no harm.

On "IT MAKES MONEY":
If the government started selling microtransactions enabling people to hit others they don’t like or steal money or force your employer to pay you double and the law would turn a blind eye, it would be extremely popular with all those who wanted to buy one and terrible for others! If EA were govt this might be a possibility and when you call 999/911 it would take 2 hours for someone to understand (but not resolve) what the problem is.

I’ve got plenty more to say on EA related issues (especially the hacking & EA support) that is relevant (& that I’ve just deleted) but I’ve gone on way too long already & we should probably kill this off asap so as not to piss everyone else off. Aside from the games themselves which are mostly good, my experiences with this company when there’s no developing studio like DICE underneath to help me out have been terrible.
The bold is such an exaggerative, strawman argument and you know it.

With that said, I agree for the most part about FIFA, and I think Pat also does. I've bought Fifa every year since 09, but I can't comment on Ultimate Team because I never played it. I never cared for the mode. I get my value of Fifa from all the other modes, personally.

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Old 04-16-2013, 04:25 PM   #733
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Some Don't Like BioShock's Forced Baptism. Enough To Ask For A Refund.

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Old 04-16-2013, 04:30 PM   #734
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Default Re: The Gaming Lounge: Beyond - Part 5

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Pat, imagine if EA owned Gears of War & not via Epic Games, if it was their own product and they didn’t have to worry about how the studio underneath would react to their practises. You'd be stuck with Judgment multiplayer only for the franchise as GoW3 is from 2011.

Thankfully they’re not so I’ll be able to enjoy Horde & multiplayer on all the previous games that I loved for who knows how long (& a lot longer on the non server side)…& never play Judgment multiplayer again!

And you’re putting a fair amount of effort into defending them, but you joined in on suing them for anti-competitive practises like the ones I’m talking about? Lol dude.

They have tonnes of separate licenses with all the different bodies, leagues, & for individual club & national tournaments & even individual teams within the same sport. “FIFA” is only one football body. That’s why they can cover clubs & international teams from so many individual countries and leagues around the world. Also why they can make more than 1 game a year in the FIFA series. Regular FIFA, European Championships, World Cup, Road to World Cup, managerial games in various territories while others can’t touch those without changing the names for everything. Those are all separate licenses.

Pro evolution Soccer dominated football games for quite a while until FIFA finally put out a comparable quality game (was terrible before this gen) and then everyone jumped ship almost overnight because they had nearly all the licensed players & team around the world while Pro Evo had hardly any, although this has increased massively on earlier years but still nowhere near as many as FIFA has. Fact of UK football gaming history

FIFA is the worst possible example u can use based on how successful, both critically and commercially it is. Rather u want to admit it or not, exclusivity benefits both parties. It helps EA by removing competition and it helps the license holder by guaranteeing a stricter agreement. It's the exact reason why the NFL does it. Micro transactions are Also a complete non issue(at least they have been in ea's recent titles), so ull have to find a better argument as to why EA is the evil empire.

I defend them because its generally quite easy. Most ppl yell "EA is da debil" but yet never back up that argument. I jumped on the lawsuit because I thought was EA did was anti consumer. That was prior to me discovering that the NFL was the body that sought an exclusive deal and the reason iv withdrawn my name. Also I was pissed that there'd be no more NFL 2K and no one was suing the NFL at the time haha.

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Old 04-16-2013, 04:39 PM   #735
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Oh good grief. What the f**k is wrong with people? It's damn game, YOU aren't being baptized, that animated character on the other end of your controller is. This is why we can't have nice things. Everyone is offended by something. Let just stop making movies, books, tv programs etc. we need to stop offending people.

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Old 04-16-2013, 04:59 PM   #736
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The sad thing is, that the Baptism section would have gone against his religious believes, but apparently he would have been completely fine with blowing holes in people's faces.

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Old 04-16-2013, 05:48 PM   #737
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Default Re: The Gaming Lounge: Beyond - Part 5

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The bold is such an exaggerative, strawman argument and you know it.

With that said, I agree for the most part about FIFA, and I think Pat also does. I've bought Fifa every year since 09, but I can't comment on Ultimate Team because I never played it. I never cared for the mode. I get my value of Fifa from all the other modes, personally.
Exaggerative? Hell yeah!

Straw Man, no. That's exactly what I believe on microtransactions that benefit actual gameplay. And that bold part you're talking about was a straight rebuttal of "IT MAKES MONEY" which was supposed to have blown my previous argument. Many unfair practises would make money by being attractive to some and unattractive to others. Any discriminatory policy for eg favouring US residents would be popular with those in that area (even if they knew the advantage was unfair) and unpopular with others & be able to make plenty of money from the part of the population they suit. That money made doesn't vindicate the policy! In this case the unlucky lot are those who can't afford to pay and those who don't want to pay and are being disadvantaged as a result. I wouldn't care if this was something that couldn't be taken online...in that case microtransact as much as you want.

Ah you started FIFA just as it was getting great. I played since 1995 I think (maybe 96) and they were not good until 09 & the successive years made massive gameplay improvements. I'm not complaining about the game or EA's recent efforts on it, just some of their business methods.

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Old 04-16-2013, 05:54 PM   #738
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FIFA is the worst possible example u can use based on how successful, both critically and commercially it is. Rather u want to admit it or not, exclusivity benefits both parties. It helps EA by removing competition and it helps the license holder by guaranteeing a stricter agreement. It's the exact reason why the NFL does it. Micro transactions are Also a complete non issue(at least they have been in ea's recent titles), so ull have to find a better argument as to why EA is the evil empire.
Of course FIFA has been amazingly successful & of course the exclusivity benefits both parties. Do you think I don’t think either of those things? I thought it was what I was saying myself, the exclusivity only hurts the competition to EA like Konami and other attempted football games. And again all of this is not one of the points I’m actually trying to make, just a defence against getting called out (yet again) this time on EA not having a lot of licenses!

And I’ve made a reasonably detailed effort to explain why I don’t approve of microtransactions like Ultimate Team and it looks like you don’t want to carry on with that thread so I guess I’ll call them a… non-non-issue? (complete)


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I defend them because its generally quite easy. Most ppl yell "EA is da debil" but yet never back up that argument. I jumped on the lawsuit because I thought was EA did was anti consumer. That was prior to me discovering that the NFL was the body that sought an exclusive deal and the reason iv withdrawn my name. Also I was pissed that there'd be no more NFL 2K and no one was suing the NFL at the time haha.
But that’s where I think you get blinkered. I get the impression you see anyone arguing on the same side as a group of well-known complainers (eg Anti-Nolan brigade) and then you class their complaint as just more dross, more EA is da debil from someone who isn’t thinking for themselves but just jumping on a bandwagon. Sure maybe most people do jump on the bandwagon but just because the bandwagon is there for EA complainers doesn’t mean others don’t have real genuine issues that maybe don’t need to be (attempted to be) steamrolled into silence. My complaints of which I’ve touched the surface are a culmination of many individual things based on what I’ve honestly come across having been heavily involved with EA for almost 2 decades. At least the games are better now!

Lol on the lawsuit. At least you had good reasons!

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Old 04-17-2013, 12:39 AM   #739
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I confess, I totally thought Injustice: Gods Among Us was some sort of MMO or story based game where you got to play as a bunch of different DC characters. I also thought it wasn't coming to Xbox, for some reason. I just saw an ad for it on TV and noticed the Xbox logo at the end, and got kind of excited. Then I looked it up and realized it's just a fighting game, so I've lost all interest again.

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:12 AM   #740
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The story mode in it is pretty awesome

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Old 04-17-2013, 04:10 AM   #741
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I'm glad fighters have started including story modes. Some of them are pretty good too like Tekken & Mortal Kombat. Makes them much more appealing to me than straight beat'em ups.

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Old 04-17-2013, 08:47 AM   #742
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oh you must have missed that time, I put up that video fro EPD.TV/ROTR where they showed they (PlatinumGames) were what made Res4 and DMC great at that time there. but yeah that is the deal .
Apparently, I did miss that time
Time for me to hit the youtube mobile

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I confess, I totally thought Injustice: Gods Among Us was some sort of MMO or story based game where you got to play as a bunch of different DC characters. I also thought it wasn't coming to Xbox, for some reason. I just saw an ad for it on TV and noticed the Xbox logo at the end, and got kind of excited. Then I looked it up and realized it's just a fighting game, so I've lost all interest again.
Not much of a fan of fighting games, huh?

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Old 04-17-2013, 10:15 AM   #743
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Actually fighting games are fine and dandy. Something like Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter, Tekken, whatever, those are enormous fun. I realize "it's just a game" but when you include DC or Marvel characters I have a difficult time getting passed the idea that a character like say, Nightwing, can go toe to toe with Superman. Fighting games are cool, but they have to make some tiny bit of sense in my book. At the very least obey the rules of their own world, if not ours.

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Old 04-17-2013, 12:17 PM   #744
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It's a bit conky, but I look at MK vs DCU and MvC as parodies of comic characters taken down characters stronger than they are

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Old 04-17-2013, 12:17 PM   #745
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Actually fighting games are fine and dandy. Something like Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter, Tekken, whatever, those are enormous fun. I realize "it's just a game" but when you include DC or Marvel characters I have a difficult time getting passed the idea that a character like say, Nightwing, can go toe to toe with Superman. Fighting games are cool, but they have to make some tiny bit of sense in my book. At the very least obey the rules of their own world, if not ours.
Hah yea its a little odd seeing Nightwing knock Superman through a damn building, but its based on comics, the most outlandish and nonsensical medium we have. Nightwing took a pill filled with Kryptonian tech, so thats how he can do what he does. IDK man, i think u just need to get over that hangup and try it out, assuming u care at all for any of these characters. Its a NRS game and they know how to do fighting games. Its wicked fun.

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:09 PM   #746
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^What he said

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:41 PM   #747
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I never touched the Dreamcast or read about it, DC web browser is news to me
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:15 PM   #748
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Default Re: The Gaming Lounge: Beyond - Part 5

Anyone else trying to get tickets to Pax Prime right now? I've been in the queue for about a half hour so far.

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Old 04-17-2013, 04:56 PM   #749
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Default Re: The Gaming Lounge: Beyond - Part 5

I'm going to try and get tickets for Eurogamer in September. Went last year and it was awesome. Should be even more awesome this year.

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Old 04-17-2013, 05:01 PM   #750
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Default Re: The Gaming Lounge: Beyond - Part 5

Well, after about two hours I got tickets for one day on Friday. Not my ideal day, but the others sold out so dang fast. Excited to go either way! Despite living only 20 minutes from the convention center here in Seattle this will be my first time at Pax!

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