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Old 01-06-2013, 10:01 PM   #26
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Default Re: Shazam

Anubis and HighFivingMf make good points. To billy his actions are deemed wise right now because he has NO money NO food it would be considered wise to steal to survive. Plus he isn't alone here, Freddy has certainly pushed him in the direction he is going lets not forget that.

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Old 01-06-2013, 10:03 PM   #27
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I think what SHAZAM really wants to see is Billy threatening to cut a baby in half.

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Old 01-06-2013, 10:04 PM   #28
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Cutting babies is wise as ****.

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Old 01-07-2013, 12:02 PM   #29
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ok

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Old 01-07-2013, 03:44 PM   #30
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Default Re: Shazam

Cap's wisdom as described by his Wiki entry:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
As Captain Marvel, Billy has instant access to a vast amount of scholarly knowledge, including most known languages and sciences. He has exceptional photographic recall and mental acuity allowing him to read and decipher hieroglyphics, recall everything he has ever learned and solve long mathematical equations. He also has a great understanding of divine phenomena in the mortal world. The wisdom of Solomon also provides him with counsel and advice in times of need. In early Captain Marvel stories, Solomon's power also gave Marvel the ability to hypnotize people. (Solomon is the only figure in the list not taken from Greco-Roman mythology.)
And for reference, here's Black Adam's:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia again
Black Adam has instant access to a vast level of scholarly knowledge, which allows him to know multiple languages. The wisdom of Zehuti also provides him with counsel and advice in times of need.
Nothing about necessarily affecting their morality, but they can ask their respective god for advice...and choose to ignore it.

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Old 01-08-2013, 09:58 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Hush View Post
Anubis and HighFivingMf make good points. To billy his actions are deemed wise right now because he has NO money NO food it would be considered wise to steal to survive. Plus he isn't alone here, Freddy has certainly pushed him in the direction he is going lets not forget that.

No....he didnt HAVE TO do those things. He could have gone back home! He has a home, remember?

But in his "foolishness" he spurned those nice people and continues in his foolish ways even as Shazam.

And "wisdom" would keep Freddie from pushing him in bad directions.

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Old 01-08-2013, 10:15 AM   #32
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Default Re: Shazam

But he's decided to stay grown up. Technically I don't think foster parents take care of super-powered adults. Pretty wise to consider that.

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Old 01-17-2013, 08:53 PM   #33
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Hi new guy offering new opinion.

You have to see this from his perspective. Billy has been an orphan basically his entire life. He's been forced from foster home to foster home and has become bitter because of it. But as the wizard said he has the potential for good, he just doesn't use it all the time.

Then he gets powers and is now a superhero (not acting like one but he is one). How else is supposed to use them? He's a kid! Dollars to donuts after the fight with Black Adam he'll wise up and act more reasonable.....maybe.

I believe that Johns is trying to make Billy more realistic. A lot of kids nowadays don't have a heart of gold. The original Billy was made in a different time when values were different. This is a very believeable modern-age Billy.

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Old 01-18-2013, 03:43 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by BlackMagicWolf View Post
Hi new guy offering new opinion.

You have to see this from his perspective. Billy has been an orphan basically his entire life. He's been forced from foster home to foster home and has become bitter because of it. But as the wizard said he has the potential for good, he just doesn't use it all the time.

Then he gets powers and is now a superhero (not acting like one but he is one). How else is supposed to use them? He's a kid! Dollars to donuts after the fight with Black Adam he'll wise up and act more reasonable.....maybe.

I believe that Johns is trying to make Billy more realistic. A lot of kids nowadays don't have a heart of gold. The original Billy was made in a different time when values were different. This is a very believeable modern-age Billy.

Lifting cars is realistic?? Flying is realistic?? Invulnerability is reality?

But yet, there they are!! All of those powers fully demonstrated!! BUT YET....boring ol' Wisdom is somehow NOT there??

No one is saying that when he is Billy , that he shouldn't be the brat fool that he is.....But as Cap/Shazam, the powers should over-take him fully. And just as he gets stronger, faster, after he speaks the magic word,he should be wiser as well.

It should be something he cant help but do......

By the way , Welcome!

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Old 01-18-2013, 05:01 PM   #35
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Default Re: Shazam

You almost want it to be like somebody putting on the helmet of Fate then?

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Old 01-18-2013, 05:30 PM   #36
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I'm with Colossal spoons here, what you're saying is that him being SHAZAM! is a different personality than Billy, which is not the case.

Think of the Young Justice episode where SHAZAM! gave wise advice to Aqualad, then two seconds later said something kiddish and sped off.

Wisdom doesn't take over someone, it is a choice to be used. I could have all the knowledge in the world and yet never share it with anyone, I could be the wisest person on earth and not advise anyone.

Wisdom is one of the powers sure, that doesn't mean he knows how to use it, or that even wants to use it.

Oh and thanks for the welcome.

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Old 01-18-2013, 07:45 PM   #37
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Default Re: Shazam

Exactly, he could possess the wisdom but is purposefully choosing not to make wise decisions. Like a person doing drugs, committing adultery, etc while knowing 100% that they shouldn't be doing it.

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Old 01-18-2013, 08:21 PM   #38
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Plus there was that time when Freddie was Captain Marvel and had to earn all the gifts. They portrayed Wisdom as something he needed to tune into or like revelations that would come when needed rather than transforming into some genius level philosopher.

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Old 01-18-2013, 09:09 PM   #39
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Default Re: Shazam

Ah, The Trials of Shazam. That was an interesting mini.

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Old 01-18-2013, 09:55 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by BlackMagicWolf View Post
I'm with Colossal spoons here, what you're saying is that him being SHAZAM! is a different personality than Billy, which is not the case.

Think of the Young Justice episode where SHAZAM! gave wise advice to Aqualad, then two seconds later said something kiddish and sped off.

Wisdom doesn't take over someone, it is a choice to be used. I could have all the knowledge in the world and yet never share it with anyone, I could be the wisest person on earth and not advise anyone.

Wisdom is one of the powers sure, that doesn't mean he knows how to use it, or that even wants to use it.

Oh and thanks for the welcome.

Dr Fate is not a good analogy as they are two different beings. Nabu is not Kent Nelson. Nabu is using Kents body.

"Wisdom" would simply be another enhancement to Billy, like his strength, speed and flight...

It's an "ability" NOT and entity.

Surely you can see the difference............

Wisdom would stop Billy from robbing a bank or vandalizing a car when he is Shazam.....as Billy, he's a brat kid. But hopefully will learn as he goes.

Also....knowledege and wisdom are 2 different things.....Wisdom is the correct application of the knowledge you have.


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Old 01-19-2013, 12:28 PM   #41
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Default Re: Shazam

I am understand the difference I was just using it as an example.

And it was a good example in the context you used it as: "But as Cap/Shazam, the powers should over-take him fully."

So what you were saying is that the Wisdom of Solomon should be forced upon Billy what we're saying is that he has access to it but he's just not using it outside of the obvious "I need to stop this robbery and stop this carjacking."

Two other things you need to consider. One is that Billy has been SHAZAM! for all of a day in his time and Johns doesn't have a lot of room to expand on the powers....yet. This is why a lot of us want a SHAZAM! comic (and possibly something more but I'll get to that later!)

The second thing is that not once during the New 52 has SHAZAM!'s powers been fully explained outside of his speed, strength, flight, and the power of the living lightning bolt and some spell weaving. Wisdom was never mentioned (and I'm looking at the panel that says this as I'm typing). For all we know Wisdom is not part of the deal in the New 52.

Just saying, give it time.

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Old 01-19-2013, 05:54 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by BlackMagicWolf View Post
I am understand the difference I was just using it as an example.

And it was a good example in the context you used it as: "But as Cap/Shazam, the powers should over-take him fully."

So what you were saying is that the Wisdom of Solomon should be forced upon Billy what we're saying is that he has access to it but he's just not using it outside of the obvious "I need to stop this robbery and stop this carjacking."

Two other things you need to consider. One is that Billy has been SHAZAM! for all of a day in his time and Johns doesn't have a lot of room to expand on the powers....yet. This is why a lot of us want a SHAZAM! comic (and possibly something more but I'll get to that later!)

The second thing is that not once during the New 52 has SHAZAM!'s powers been fully explained outside of his speed, strength, flight, and the power of the living lightning bolt and some spell weaving. Wisdom was never mentioned (and I'm looking at the panel that says this as I'm typing). For all we know Wisdom is not part of the deal in the New 52.

Just saying, give it time.
And what is wrong with saying that? It's an ability...

He "fully: has his flight?? Right?

He fully has his speed... Right?

He has his "full" strength....right?

So why not his Full Wisdom??

So the Nabu analogy does not fly......

Do you consider these other abilities "FORCED" upon him?? No you dont.


They are a package deal....or "should" be. His name is not HAZAM! LOL

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Old 01-19-2013, 07:42 PM   #43
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I'm glad you completely missed the second half of my last post. I clearly explain the reason why Wisdom might not be showing up. Highlight that in your next post and rebuff that.

For all we know this version of SHAZAM! (New 52) doesn't have the same abilites of the last version of SHAZAM! So again Wisdom may not be a part of the deal. Whether it should be or not is irrelevant really.

Oh and for the record he litertally just learned how to fly in the last issue, strength and speed were the only ones that came naturally at first, wouldn't that be called....progression of powers?

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Old 01-19-2013, 08:31 PM   #44
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackMagicWolf View Post
I'm glad you completely missed the second half of my last post. I clearly explain the reason why Wisdom might not be showing up. Highlight that in your next post and rebuff that.

For all we know this version of SHAZAM! (New 52) doesn't have the same abilites of the last version of SHAZAM! So again Wisdom may not be a part of the deal. Whether it should be or not is irrelevant really.

Oh and for the record he litertally just learned how to fly in the last issue, strength and speed were the only ones that came naturally at first, wouldn't that be called....progression of powers?[/QUOTE]
That doesnt mean the power of flight was not there. The situation presented itself that caused him to trigger what he already had.....He has encountered several incidents in which "wisdom" was called for and NOTHING happened? Makes no sense.....

I think the writers and fans like you and other just get a kick out of seeing a Capt Marvel act like a juvenile delinquent.....


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Old 01-19-2013, 08:40 PM   #45
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackMagicWolf View Post
I am understand the difference I was just using it as an example.

And it was a good example in the context you used it as: "But as Cap/Shazam, the powers should over-take him fully."

So what you were saying is that the Wisdom of Solomon should be forced upon Billy what we're saying is that he has access to it but he's just not using it outside of the obvious "I need to stop this robbery and stop this carjacking."

Two other things you need to consider. One is that Billy has been SHAZAM! for all of a day in his time and Johns doesn't have a lot of room to expand on the powers....yet. This is why a lot of us want a SHAZAM! comic (and possibly something more but I'll get to that later!)

The second thing is that not once during the New 52 has SHAZAM!'s powers been fully explained outside of his speed, strength, flight, and the power of the living lightning bolt and some spell weaving. Wisdom was never mentioned (and I'm looking at the panel that says this as I'm typing). For all we know Wisdom is not part of the deal in the New 52.

Just saying, give it time.[/QUOTE]
Didnt try to ignore this part.....just thoiught I already answered it. What I dont understand is the why all the push-back on this message board with "wisdom"?? It's like none of you want him to have this ability. What is up with that?

If you are saying that the name SHAZAM is no longer an Acronym for the pantheon, that would be the only explanation for this gross interpretation of SHAZAM. If that's the case, I can live that.

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Old 01-19-2013, 08:50 PM   #46
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In order:

Wisdom can be interpreted as more than just deciding what is right and wrong, you don't have to be wise to decide that or be wise not to that.

I never said anything about him not having wisdom or him not ever using it. I was just as surprised as you that people are overblowing this. That's why (partly) I posted here.

Oh (out of order I know but this is important), and I honestly don't like the New 52 version of Billy. Can i live with it? Sure. But do I prefer him this way? No.

I wrote a blog about what I would like a Live-Action tv show of SHAZAM! to be like and I reference the two versions of Billy and how I would want the live action version to be like.

I said that I wanted a version that does like to do good but not overtly so and is withdrawn but not a jerk due to his life in the orphanage and foster care. Click here if you wish to read.

But to be honest I do prefer old-school Billy to new school. Is he more modern in the New 52 like I said? Yes. But I liked the heart-of-gold, that's what drew me to him as a character.

Oh and yes I'm saying that SHAZAM! may not be an acronym in the New 52.

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Old 01-19-2013, 10:49 PM   #47
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In order:

Wisdom can be interpreted as more than just deciding what is right and wrong, you don't have to be wise to decide that or be wise not to that.

I never said anything about him not having wisdom or him not ever using it. I was just as surprised as you that people are overblowing this. That's why (partly) I posted here.

Oh (out of order I know but this is important), and I honestly don't like the New 52 version of Billy. Can i live with it? Sure. But do I prefer him this way? No.

I wrote a blog about what I would like a Live-Action tv show of SHAZAM! to be like and I reference the two versions of Billy and how I would want the live action version to be like.

I said that I wanted a version that does like to do good but not overtly so and is withdrawn but not a jerk due to his life in the orphanage and foster care. Click here if you wish to read.

But to be honest I do prefer old-school Billy to new school. Is he more modern in the New 52 like I said? Yes. But I liked the heart-of-gold, that's what drew me to him as a character.

Oh and yes I'm saying that SHAZAM! may not be an acronym in the New 52.
I will check out your link....sounds interesting! I like old school Batson too.

Lastly , you cannot separate wisdom from doing good if faced with a choice to do so. How can chosing evil and its consequences be desirable?? Morality is brought about by one having the wisdom to know the difference between good and bad morals. A wise person will have correct and acceptable moral standards, while an unwise person may have loose morals, morals which are not acceptable to the general public

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Old 01-20-2013, 12:47 AM   #48
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Says who?

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Old 01-20-2013, 06:26 AM   #49
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Lastly , you cannot separate wisdom from doing good if faced with a choice to do so
And this is where you're wrong. Your morals have nothing to do with the morals of a entity with at least thousands of TRUE human history in his belt.

Would the wisdom of solomon abide by the latest banker bluntly unfair rules?
Would he respect a way of life that is increasingly close to destroying humanity?

That's money, that's cars.

Why would any sort of wisdom be materialistic if it holds the power to end the need for instrumentality?

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Old 01-20-2013, 06:51 AM   #50
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sigh...........

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