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Old 06-09-2011, 08:43 PM   #1
raybia
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Default The Dark Knight Trilogy is essentially an Elseworlds story

I'm sure this isn't a newsflash and if this has already been discussed to completion then my apologizes. I was thinking about Nolan series the other day and how he stated he was looking forward to completing the story. The way many took those comment was though Nolan is planning something revolutionary, and maybe he is as far as a movie series based on a comic series is concerned, but as far as from the comicbook world itself, this is nothing new. Elseworld stories, imaginary stories, alternative universes, etc.

In comics books, main continuity has its limitation as far as what a writer can do with major characters such as kill a long time supporting character or have that character end up as a traitor for example but with Elseworld stories its understood that there are no boundaries and anything goes, which makes it really fun and interesting for readers.

I think Nolan first hinted at this in TDK when the caption under the main poster said, "Welcome to a world without rules."

I think he was pointing to the elseworld that he created and for the first time a director who can do something with that world that no director has been allowed to do with a superhero franchise.

If the ending to Nolan's series proves to be revolutionary then it could set up a new direction for the genre and result in more original storytelling where directors could come in a do either a stand alone movie or a trilogy, instead of the same template that has been used over and over.

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Old 06-09-2011, 08:48 PM   #2
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy is essentially an Elseworlds story

Way to steal my words. I'm not kidding, you twisted what I said and put it here recently as your own. Because I just said this less than an hour or so ago

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Old 06-09-2011, 08:57 PM   #3
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy is essentially an Elseworlds story

I don't care if it's a elseword story if he kills Bruce, then I won't beable to take the movies seriously.

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Old 06-09-2011, 08:58 PM   #4
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy is essentially an Elseworlds story

Well aren't all movies based on comics "Elseworlds" stories?

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Old 06-09-2011, 08:59 PM   #5
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy is essentially an Elseworlds story

Okie dokie then.

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Old 06-09-2011, 09:02 PM   #6
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy is essentially an Elseworlds story

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Way to steal my words. I'm not kidding, you twisted what I said and put it here recently as your own. Because I just said this less than an hour or so ago
Believe me, I didn't read your comments about the subject whatsoever. I've been here long enough and have built up a reputation that substantiate that I would never do what you are accusing me of.

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Old 06-09-2011, 09:04 PM   #7
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy is essentially an Elseworlds story

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Believe me, I didn't read your comments about the subject whatsoever. I've been here long enough and have built up a reputation that substantiate that I would never do what you are accusing me of.
I don't give a damn about your reputation or how long you've been here, that whole thing is way too convenient to be put up this recent

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Old 06-09-2011, 09:07 PM   #8
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy is essentially an Elseworlds story

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I don't give a damn about your reputation or how long you've been here, that whole thing is way too convenient to be put up this recent
People have brought this up many many times, Raybia is just re-stating this which is fine. This topic has been brought up in here for almost 6 years, this is not some new idea, he just brought it back up.

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Old 06-09-2011, 09:08 PM   #9
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy is essentially an Elseworlds story

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Originally Posted by raybia View Post
I'm sure this isn't a newsflash and if this has already been discussed to completion then my apologizes. I was thinking about Nolan series the other day and how he stated he was looking forward to completing the story. The way many took those comment was though Nolan is planning something revolutionary, and maybe he is as far as a movie series based on a comic series is concerned, but as far as from the comicbook world itself, this is nothing new. Elseworld stories, imaginary stories, alternative universes, etc.

In comics books, main continuity has its limitation as far as what a writer can do with major characters such as kill a long time supporting character or have that character end up as a traitor for example but with Elseworld stories its understood that there are no boundaries and anything goes, which makes it really fun and interesting for readers.

I think Nolan first hinted at this in TDK when the caption under the main poster said, "Welcome to a world without rules."

I think he was pointing to the elseworld that he created and for the first time a director who can do something with that world that no director has been allowed to do with a superhero franchise.

If the ending to Nolan's series proves to be revolutionary then it could set up a new direction for the genre and result in more original storytelling where directors could come in a do either a stand alone movie or a trilogy, instead of the same template that has been used over and over.
You lost me here. Burton's Batman Returns is about as far away as you can get from the lore, while still being recognized as part of the brand. That was close to 20 years ago.

Furthermore, taking liberties with the property is nothing new. Every director has taken part in it, good and bad. Practically every comic book film to date are deemed as adaptations because of how much they deviate from the source. Comic book films have always been "elseworlds". Fans just tend to over-emphasize the importance of faithfulness because they feel threatened by change. Which is futile, as said defenders of the material have demonstrated for decades they're actually favorable towards change, given that it's one they personally don't mind.

If Nolan have "revolutionized" anything in the genre, it's making a film that has legitimized its ranks along with other praised works in cinema. TDK was the first (and still is) the only superhero film that can be widely admired for its artistic merits outside of the hardcore fanbase. Huge accomplishment there and I doubt TDKR will elevate much higher. If anything, Chris' big win will be closing out a trilogy on a good note and simultaneously raising the bar for his successors in the field.

But straying from the comic books? Going their own way? Nah. Been there, done that.

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Old 06-09-2011, 09:08 PM   #10
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy is essentially an Elseworlds story

Great minds think alike....

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Old 06-09-2011, 09:09 PM   #11
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy is essentially an Elseworlds story

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People have brought this up many many times, Raybia is just re-stating this which is fine. This topic has been brought up in here for almost 6 years, this is not some new idea, he just brought it back up.
You don't get it. THIS was not out of the blue. THIS was brought up elsewhere, to be discussed, somewhere no one even seems to care about anymore. It's not just bringing it up again

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Old 06-09-2011, 09:13 PM   #12
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I don't give a damn about your reputation or how long you've been here, that whole thing is way too convenient to be put up this recent
Fine. Don't expect me then to give a damn about your whining. I don't know you so piss on your accusation. There is no copyright on this topic so cry me a river.

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Old 06-09-2011, 09:13 PM   #13
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy is essentially an Elseworlds story

So far, I've run across Knight twice -- and both times he's been whining. The first because others thought his idea for a noir Batman comic book was unoriginal (and because nobody had read it). The second is of him snapping at someone because he thought their thread idea was unoriginal and derivative of something he randomly posted on an internet forum.

Dude, maybe you ought to consider your own reputation. This is a reasonable discussion topic on a Batman forum. He's not the first guy to think it up -- and neither were you. Lighten up.

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Old 06-09-2011, 09:20 PM   #14
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy is essentially an Elseworlds story

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You lost me here. Burton's Batman Returns is about as far away as you can get from the lore, while still being recognized as part of the brand. That was close to 20 years ago.

Furthermore, taking liberties with the property is nothing new. Every director has taken part in it, good and bad. Practically every comic book film to date are deemed as adaptations because of how much they deviate from the source. Comic book films have always been "elseworlds". Fans just tend to over-emphasize the importance of faithfulness because they feel threatened by change. Which is futile, as said defenders of the material have demonstrated for decades they're actually favorable towards change, given that it's one they personally don't mind.

If Nolan have "revolutionized" anything in the genre, it's making a film that has legitimized its ranks along with other praised works in cinema. TDK was the first (and still is) the only superhero film that can be widely admired for its artistic merits outside of the hardcore fanbase. Huge accomplishment there and I doubt TDKR will elevate much higher. If anything, Chris' big win will be closing out a trilogy on a good note and simultaneously raising the bar for his successors in the field.

But straying from the comic books? Going their own way? Nah. Been there, done that.
I see your point and I mostly agree but I think Burton doing it was really overlooked whereas Nolan's approach will get more recognition. Plus I feel the big difference between Burton's and Nolan's approach will be that Burton's world was still there after BR whereas Nolan's I suspect, will not permit a return to it by future directors.

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Old 06-09-2011, 09:23 PM   #15
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy is essentially an Elseworlds story

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Well aren't all movies based on comics "Elseworlds" stories?
Yeah to some extent but there are still many rules or boundaries that the director is forced to say within. A true Elseworld story is like doing a movie version of "The Dark Knight Returns" or Superman: Red Sun.

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Old 06-09-2011, 09:25 PM   #16
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I see your point and I mostly agree but I think Burton doing it was really overlooked whereas Nolan's approach will get more recognition. Plus I feel the big difference between Burton's and Nolan's approach will be that Burton's world was still there after BR whereas Nolan's I suspect, will not permit a return to it by future directors.
If you're referring to Schumacher, I never considered that anywhere near the realm of Burton's, in spite of the references. For all intents and purposes Burton's vision ceased when the credits for BR rolled.

Regardless if these directors return, the only surefire way to ensure that this universe is truly done with is to kill off the protagonist. Otherwise that door is always left open. It is fiction after all. There are always stories to tell if that avenue is provided.

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Old 06-09-2011, 09:27 PM   #17
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy is essentially an Elseworlds story

I agree with you but I guess I don't understand the significance of the idea or what there really is to discuss. Aren't most comic book movies essentially Elseworld stories?

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Old 06-09-2011, 09:28 PM   #18
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If you're referring to Schumacher, I never considered that anywhere near the realm of Burton's, in spite of the references. For all intents and purposes Burton's vision ceased when the credits for BR rolled.

Regardless if these directors return, the only surefire way to ensure that this universe is truly done with, is to kill off the protagonist. Otherwise, that door is always left open. It is fiction after all. There are always stories to tell if that avenue is provided.
That what I'm really getting at. I didn't think it was possible before but I think Nolan could be willing to kill the protagonist. Or at least in a way where the world thinks that Bruce Wayne or Batman dead ala The Dark Knight Returns.

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Old 06-09-2011, 09:28 PM   #19
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy is essentially an Elseworlds story

I only recall one Burton movie reference in Schumacher's movies and that was Chase's remark about Batman liking strong women in skin tight vinyl with a whip. I guess the inclusion of Pat Hingle and Michael Gough counts, too.

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Old 06-09-2011, 09:29 PM   #20
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy is essentially an Elseworlds story

For a lot of people, the movies are the actual continuity, and the comics are "elseworld". The comics may be the source material ... but the audience for the movies is a LOT bigger, so, for many, the movies are the continuity that matters. The comic continuity is long, convoluted, has some really weird periods, and odd stops-and-starts/ reboots, etc. And, some of the best Batman comic stuff (TDKR, Nine Lives, Year One, etc.) is out-of-continuity anyway.

I've actually heard someone say that, if the Nolan trilogy was the way the story actually happened, the comics or Burton movies might be the way the legend was written.

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Old 06-09-2011, 09:30 PM   #21
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy is essentially an Elseworlds story

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So far, I've run across Knight twice -- and both times he's been whining. The first because others thought his idea for a noir Batman comic book was unoriginal (and because nobody had read it). The second is of him snapping at someone because he thought their thread idea was unoriginal and derivative of something he randomly posted on an internet forum.

Dude, maybe you ought to consider your own reputation. This is a reasonable discussion topic on a Batman forum. He's not the first guy to think it up -- and neither were you. Lighten up.

JB
I don't have a reputation because of people like you. If you brought up something and no one said anything but then minutes later, it's brought up again and there's a WHOLE conversation, you'd be frustrated to. And you obviously are targeting me for one thing cleaned up alone like a mature adult.

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Old 06-09-2011, 09:30 PM   #22
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I agree with you but I guess I don't understand the significance of the idea or what there really is to discuss. Aren't most comic book movies essentially Elseworld stories?
Would a studio allow a comicbook franchise to have a Se7en like ending?

I'm not saying that Nolan is going to do anything similar but he could have WB's blessing to do something very unconventional.

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Old 06-09-2011, 09:34 PM   #23
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy is essentially an Elseworlds story

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I'm sure this isn't a newsflash and if this has already been discussed to completion then my apologizes. I was thinking about Nolan series the other day and how he stated he was looking forward to completing the story. The way many took those comment was though Nolan is planning something revolutionary, and maybe he is as far as a movie series based on a comic series is concerned, but as far as from the comicbook world itself, this is nothing new. Elseworld stories, imaginary stories, alternative universes, etc.

In comics books, main continuity has its limitation as far as what a writer can do with major characters such as kill a long time supporting character or have that character end up as a traitor for example but with Elseworld stories its understood that there are no boundaries and anything goes, which makes it really fun and interesting for readers.

I think Nolan first hinted at this in TDK when the caption under the main poster said, "Welcome to a world without rules."

I think he was pointing to the elseworld that he created and for the first time a director who can do something with that world that no director has been allowed to do with a superhero franchise.

If the ending to Nolan's series proves to be revolutionary then it could set up a new direction for the genre and result in more original storytelling where directors could come in a do either a stand alone movie or a trilogy, instead of the same template that has been used over and over.
I see the Nolan Batman/The Dark Knight Trilogy as more of an Ultimate universe for Batman, as opposed to an Elseworlds in the traditional sense.

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You lost me here. Burton's Batman Returns is about as far away as you can get from the lore, while still being recognized as part of the brand. That was close to 20 years ago.

Furthermore, taking liberties with the property is nothing new. Every director has taken part in it, good and bad. Practically every comic book film to date are deemed as adaptations because of how much they deviate from the source. Comic book films have always been "elseworlds". Fans just tend to over-emphasize the importance of faithfulness because they feel threatened by change. Which is futile, as said defenders of the material have demonstrated for decades they're actually favorable towards change, given that it's one they personally don't mind.

If Nolan have "revolutionized" anything in the genre, it's making a film that has legitimized its ranks along with other praised works in cinema. TDK was the first (and still is) the only superhero film that can be widely admired for its artistic merits outside of the hardcore fanbase. Huge accomplishment there and I doubt TDKR will elevate much higher. If anything, Chris' big win will be closing out a trilogy on a good note and simultaneously raising the bar for his successors in the field.

But straying from the comic books? Going their own way? Nah. Been there, done that.
I agree wholeheartedly.

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Old 06-09-2011, 09:35 PM   #24
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I don't have a reputation because of people like you. If you brought up something and no one said anything but then minutes later, it's brought up again and there's a WHOLE conversation, you'd be frustrated to. And you obviously are targeting me for one thing cleaned up alone like a mature adult.
I don't know you except what I've read here. Impressive so far. Your reputation is your problem, not mine. Calling-out a random guy in an internet thread for supposedly stealing a not-so-original idea that you typed on an internet forum is hardly acting "like a mature adult".

JB

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Old 06-09-2011, 09:36 PM   #25
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy is essentially an Elseworlds story

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I don't have a reputation because of people like you. If you brought up something and no one said anything but then minutes later, it's brought up again and there's a WHOLE conversation, you'd be frustrated to. And you obviously are targeting me for one thing cleaned up alone like a mature adult.
Jesus man, stop being so melodramatic. Nobody owns this idea and nobody cares who came up with the topic for this discussion. This is a place for bat-fans to get together and discuss a common interest, it isn't a popularity contest. As long as you are posting here with that mindset you're going continue to be frustrated and you will gain a reputation, just not one you want. Get a grip man it's just the internet.

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