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Old 01-12-2013, 10:32 AM   #101
moraldeficiency
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 4

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Originally Posted by Themanofbat View Post
Nope... it was a direct comment at the fact the we were suckers for continuing to buy ASM in spite of what happened in ASM #700...

Nice try. Strike One.

Try again.



If what you say is true, then I could have reported you many times over the years.... because you have said far worse to me than that particular guy did...

Sorry. Strike two.

Try again.



I miss clones as well... Ball one.

I like how after 12 1/2 years of posting here, I make ONE threat of reporting a post and suddenly, I've been doing it all along... or maybe you just like to throw it in there to support your air of condescension in your endless efforts to make me look bad...

Admittedly, I can make myself look bad all by myself... fortunately, it doesn't happen all that often... regardless of what you think.

Strike Three.

Baseball is for suckers.

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Let me see .. Republicans are mostly gay ... Democrats oppose Republicans ... so Democrats are homophobic! :eek:

OMG, it makes sense now. Does Fox News know about this?
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:34 AM   #102
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 4

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Thanks, moraldeficency.

And yeah, I didn't dwell too much onto the supporting cast seemingly just taking SpOck's jerk-ass behavior for granted (and in some cases outright oblivious towards) is because, I said in the review, it's something that carried over from Amazing Spider-Man #700 which I went more into into that review. Although, I do agree; it's one of the big problems with the whole Doc Ock pretending to be Peter and Spider-Man. The other, of course, is the so-called "relationship" between him and Mary Jane. At least thus far. Again, thanks for feedback.
Well it was very good and through, every thing good and bad I noticed in the issue you addressed in some form. I think you're the only person I've read that has mentioned if Peter can stop ock from killing then the MJ thing becomes very off-putting indeed.

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Let me see .. Republicans are mostly gay ... Democrats oppose Republicans ... so Democrats are homophobic! :eek:

OMG, it makes sense now. Does Fox News know about this?
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:40 AM   #103
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 4

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Two quickies...

1) My "pissy little crybabies" was in relation to people who complain about nothing... this is regardless of whether I agree with them or not... so your comment is moot in this case.

2) I don't like being called names... even one as lame as "sucker"... I gave the guy an opportuntity to take it back, and he basically told me to piss off.... yet somehow, this makes me "touchy"...



As usual, you're wrong... but it's always a pleasure.

To be fair.... Your probably shouldn't name call if you don't like being name called yourself.... Just sayin


That being said... Just because you can't understand, don't like, or get why things are a big deal to some people doesn't really give you grounds to put them down because of it. This controversy in both story and promotion is obviously "something" not nothing, to many people

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Old 01-12-2013, 12:12 PM   #104
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 4

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Well it was very good and through, every thing good and bad I noticed in the issue you addressed in some form. I think you're the only person I've read that has mentioned if Peter can stop ock from killing then the MJ thing becomes very off-putting indeed.
But, Ock has done, what? Ogled MJ? Pete does not have complete control, only when they seem to matter the most, like preventing SpOck from killing, or making sure he doesn't leave without saving someone. If Ock tries to sleep MJ, I'm sure Pete will do whatever is in his power to prevent it. Let's wait and see.

OK, broad generalization here, not aiming at you, moraldeficiency, or anyone specific on this thread. But, back when Pete had a drunken hook-up, I expressed how much I felt this was wrong and out of character, but a number of posters told me I was an old Fuddy dutty and get with the times. Now everyone is outraged that Ock is just leering at MJ?

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Old 01-12-2013, 12:26 PM   #105
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 4

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But, Ock has done, what? Ogled MJ? Pete does not have complete control, only when they seem to matter the most, like preventing SpOck from killing, or making sure he doesn't leave without saving someone. If Ock tries to sleep MJ, I'm sure Pete will do whatever is in his power to prevent it. Let's wait and see.

OK, broad generalization here, not aiming at you, moraldeficiency, or anyone specific on this thread. But, back when Pete had a drunken hook-up, I expressed how much I felt this was wrong and out of character, but a number of posters told me I was an old Fuddy dutty and get with the times. Now everyone is outraged that Ock is just leering at MJ?
Oh, you can aim at me, I'm a big boy and I like a decent debate.

I thought that drunken hook up was weird, but more for two reasons. One peter shouldn't really be able to get drunk and two it turns out he wasn't actually drunk he just thought he was which made it all the more weird.

I've already spoken about how disturbing (and not disturbing fun) sex has been a norm since OMD (Peter and his roommate/black cat "don't you look me in the face when I'm doing you", Aunt May and JJJSr/Ock, Norman and harry's girlfriend) but really we only get implied sexual contact in comics so you have to just determine when it happened. Of course when you do slott will come in and explain how "it's all left to interpretation but it never really happened and you're interpretating it wrong but it's up to your interpretation".

Personally I think the Ock/MJ interactions creepy as they are show the most fun of the SSM and also how ock is actually a superior peter parker. Oogling MJ? That pretty much would just signify you have a pulse and aren't gay. Actually gay guys would probably oogle her too cause "nobody's that gay" (are there any Archer quotes that aren't gold?).

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Let me see .. Republicans are mostly gay ... Democrats oppose Republicans ... so Democrats are homophobic! :eek:

OMG, it makes sense now. Does Fox News know about this?
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:48 PM   #106
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 4

Archer totally referenced Nick Fury before it was cool, so that's a massive ace in my book, plus it was 616 Fury.

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Old 01-12-2013, 01:04 PM   #107
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 4

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Archer totally referenced Nick Fury before it was cool, so that's a massive ace in my book, plus it was 616 Fury.
I like his constant off the wall X-Men references. God I can't wait for the next season.

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Let me see .. Republicans are mostly gay ... Democrats oppose Republicans ... so Democrats are homophobic! :eek:

OMG, it makes sense now. Does Fox News know about this?
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:50 PM   #108
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 4

If they wanna play up ock's interactions with mj he should be beyond awkward.... The guys far from a ladies man and has major mommy issues..... He should be incredibly and almost disturbingly awkward imo

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Old 01-12-2013, 02:03 PM   #109
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 4

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Oh, you can aim at me, I'm a big boy and I like a decent debate.
I just wasn't sure which posters called me "old fashioned," so I just didn't want you to feel I lumped you into that group.

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I thought that drunken hook up was weird, but more for two reasons. One peter shouldn't really be able to get drunk and two it turns out he wasn't actually drunk he just thought he was which made it all the more weird.
Yeah, the fact he wasn't even drunk made it worse!

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I've already spoken about how disturbing (and not disturbing fun) sex has been a norm since OMD (...black cat "don't you look me in the face when I'm doing you",...)
Yeah, another bizarre thing that came out of BND...

But, then, I'm old fashioned.

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If they wanna play up ock's interactions with mj he should be beyond awkward.... The guys far from a ladies man and has major mommy issues..... He should be incredibly and almost disturbingly awkward imo
Good point. But, I would chalk it up to Ock's general superiority complex, added to the fact that he feels he's in a much better looking form than his old dumpy Octavious look.

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Old 01-12-2013, 02:11 PM   #110
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 4

Actually.... If ocks going to hookup with anyone.... I could see it easily be Black Cat. With there history of him nearly killing her back in the day. And with her rape history combined... Once she found out about it he'd be her number one target from here on out

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Old 01-12-2013, 02:13 PM   #111
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 4

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Well something crawled up TMoB's butt



This I am not a part of but I've read plenty of replies like such on various forums and all that. Now, most of them were people who over reacted and Alonzo or whoever (forget off hand) bad mouthed those sort of people on some inverviews (likely Newsarama but possibly CBR... I forget where exactly I read it). And now those people see that the promise of Peter being dead forever was not true and they feel foolish for how they acted.

I'm not saying they were justified in their reaction to #700, but Marvel played #700 one way and then switched it in Superior #1 while ridiculing people's reactions. Heck, Dan Slott was posting them on his Twitter feed to the laugh of other people. So yeah, they bated people and then ridiculed their reactions (knowing where the story was going), making them feel foolish.



I never said he didn't. The lie is that he was going to be dead and that this was going to be an ongoing thing. It isn't... at all. I've been around long enough to know that it wouldn't happen and when people like me made those comments about this not lasting then Wacker or whoever, again, criticised those people calling them wrong in interviews at CBR and Newsarama. One issue later people like me were proven right. They said it was forever, it lasted 1 issue, they lied.

I wasn't fooled, as weren't many other experienced readers, but non-readers, gullible readers, and new readers were, and they felt lied to. I know my shop said quite a few new customers came in to buy Amazing #700 due to the death with the intent to hold onto it and save it since it's such a monumentous occassion. We knew they were wrong but they bought the issues (multiple copies at times) and now we know that the issue will be worth squat because nothing that happened in it matters in any long run scenerio. Those people were fooled.



First off, I know that death means nothing in comics which is why I was so annoyed that they played that angle up so much as if it meant something (and ultimately, it didn't). The people who are mad are angry because of story not equating to the promotion. The people who were mad initially due to the death are either relieved at his return or angrier because they felt all of this jumping through the hoops for higher sales business was unnecessary (and I agree with that to an extent).

I mean, shouldn't we still be seeing that AWESOME storyline playing out with Peter taking on his young sidekick?! They played that up like it was going to be some humungous life-changing deal for Peter and it lasted one arc. The frustration I get from Marvel's promotions is that they play everything up bigger than it is to the point where I'm burnt out. I just assume that nothing is as big a deal as they make it. Amazing/Superior was just the next thing on the long list of let downs (well, not for me since I was never interested to begin with, but I'm sure for people like me).



Actually I think they'd be better off if they didn't. They build themselves up and then let the fans down. If they didn't build it up to begin with then they'd have to just rely on the strength of the story and people's reaction to it's plot. In this scenerio, I guarentee you people would have loved this direction if it wasn't made such a big deal with all the gimmicks and talk. Slott's a good enough writer that his stories can stand on their own. Why befuddle that with gimmicks and relaunches and misinformation and rude editors or whoever? Just tell the story.



When it started it was actually doing pretty well. It ranked decently, better than I'd have expected anyway. It was Fraction's boring plot that bled readers like mad. I'd say the normal promotion did fine... as did the idea of giving fans what they want (crazy idea, I know). People wanted Iron Fist, people wanted a Defenders similar to the original (this had almost all of the originals plus a guest stint by Hulk), and people wanted a good team. People got that, they showed up, they were let down by the bad storyline on Fraction's part.



So they tell new readers, who aren't familiar with comic books, that Spider-Man is going to die (the second time in a couple years mind you with Ultimate Spidey) to bring in new people. They come and realize one issue later that the hype that brought them in was a lie and that he's back.

Is that a way to keep that customer? I'd rather play up a story straight than pull the wool over someone's eye for a month or two until you show them you weren't really playing ball like you were promoting.



Now compare that one person who continues to buy with all of those other "new" people who were burnt and won't buy into the gimmick again? I doubt that math would work in Marvel's favor. Not to mention anyone else already reading the book that they've annoyed and sent packing.



It's a short term boost that gets old and will eventually stop working. They need to come up with something better instead of doing this year after year after year. Heck, they've gotten so addicted to it that they've rebooted titles that were selling decently only to hurt the book and make it worse (New X-Men is an example of that... and another one recently that I can't remember off hand)



I wasn't around for most of those DC ones (or just didn't read at the time). Captain America #25... no, I thought it was cheap, but at least the death lasted a while and had potential to last with how Bucky was played up. Final Crisis #6 also bugged me but it wasn't so bad because by the end of the storyline they did exactly what I say Marvel should have done with Spidey. They showed the reader that he's not really dead. They didn't insult the readers' intelligence by stating he was dead forever and all that jazz only to flip it an issue later. They killed him and an issue later (in the same story) they showed that he was trapped in the past. That was handled much better. It wasn't the promotion of Peter's death that bothered me, it was the insistence that it was forever in the face of everyone knowing better... and then not even having the balls to follow up with it. If that's not where your story was going, then why argue it?



Because they promoted it differently. And with Superman, it lasted a while. I don't care when someone dies and it's promoted as their death. Fine. But make it mean something, make it last. This stupid one or two issue death crap being promoted as the be all end all is what gets me. The marketing for Bucky, Thor, and Spider-Man's deaths were cheap promotional stunts and nothing more.



Read more interviews. They weren't exactly hidden. Nor were they hidden on various Twitter feeds. I'm not the first to bring this up.



Because I've bought "this product" the first 2 or 3 times they did the exact same thing. Fortunately, I'm smart enough to know better now. It doesn't make the practice somehow better.

And to the best of my knowledge... that McDonalds commercial doesn't promise to make their quarter pounders into half pounders, but then when you come in and have already spent your irrefundable money, they just laugh about how it was a slight of hand and that it was a quarter pounder all along and how you should just enjoy the burger you did get and keep buying them.



I know this, I've never had a problem with this. How a business goes about making that money... that's what I have a problem with. Marvel has horrible business practices.



And I've never said they shouldn't be able to. I'm not smacking around fans who enjoy buying into false-hype or calling them sheep or Marvel zombies or fanboys. I just criticise the hype itself. If someone takes that personally then that's their own insecurities.

And again, I don't criticize the creative teams. It's the promotions.



Okay... let me say this one more time, listen... I'm tired of saying it... here it goes... are you listening?

I AM NOT CRITICISING THE STORIES!!!!! I'M NOT CRITICIZING THE CHARACTERS!!!! I'M CRITICIZING THE PROMOTIONS & PRACTICES!!!!

Okay, did you hear me that time? The last time I heavily criticized a story for the story was AvX and I certainly wasn't alone. I never raised my voice about it and I honestly didn't think anything of it after posting my initial thoughts. Before that was OMD and that was years ago.
Nail on head. Which is why i stopped reading.

Only I'M critisizing the stories TOO though. Because they pretty much suck, imo.


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Old 01-12-2013, 02:26 PM   #112
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 4

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I like his constant off the wall X-Men references. God I can't wait for the next season.
So excited for that, but I heard it's apparently the final season? I'd love another one, but if that's for the best then nothing I can do about it.

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Old 01-12-2013, 02:38 PM   #113
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Nail on head. Which is why i stopped reading.

Only I'M critisizing the stories TOO though. Because they pretty much suck, imo.
Hey, Cap! Miss you around here! I always enjoyed your opinions, especially since we're the same age.

Sorry you haven't enjoyed Spidey. I can understand with the whole OMD/BND mess. I agree that that pretty much sucked. But, have you read since Dan Slott took over with Big Time? I have enjoyed his run and he has shown a good handle on continuity, which is a plus for long time readers.

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Old 01-12-2013, 06:33 PM   #114
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To be fair.... Your probably shouldn't name call if you don't like being name called yourself.... Just sayin
I agree... and I typically don't get into name-calling... but to say I've never done it in 12 1/2 years would be a lie... though I really try my best to not "get into it".

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That being said... Just because you can't understand, don't like, or get why things are a big deal to some people doesn't really give you grounds to put them down because of it. This controversy in both story and promotion is obviously "something" not nothing, to many people
That's a fair comment, and maybe I should elaborate.

When a poster gets into a rant, or complains, or has a legitimate beef, or has negative but strong passionate feelings against a comic book story, the ability to air their feelings is fine...

I have no concerns when people do that... it's their right whether I "don't understand" or not "get it"...

What I don't like... and my initial "pissy little crybabies" comment was more directed towards this group... are the posters who have been complaing for months, and some of them YEARS... about Marvel/storylines ad nauseum... and YES... even though I don't like it... they are STILL within their rights to complain forever... but at some point, don't I get the right to complain about the endless string of complaints about stories that have happened forever? Or about stories that haven't even happened yet?

I'm not here to tell people what to do... nor have I ever felt I could tell people "what" to do... but if people feel so passionate about their "righ to complain", where's the compassion for the people who complain about the complainers?

You and I have traded quips over the years, the early ones were probably more nasty, but I'm glad we got over that hump and we're capable of having civil conversation about this or any topic at hand...

I know I've had my moments... and if I'm honest with myself, I've been wrong in a few of them...

I feel like I'm just babbling at this point... I'm not even sure what I'm trying to say...

Go Niners!!!


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Old 01-12-2013, 07:51 PM   #115
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 4

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I went in to barnes and noble today to see if they had the first issue of Superior and didn't see it but I saw ASM #700 and picked it up immediately.

The first comic book I have bought in about 10 years. I was so excited to take it home and read, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I haven't kept completely up to speed in the world of ASM( just ordered Big Time Ultimate Collection off of amazon) but I quite liked it and felt very nostalgic.

My New Years resolution was to start collecting comics again focusing on my favorite character which is Spider-Man so I chose to get ASM as it was the final issue and begin picking up Superior every month. Hopefully I can find Superior #1 this weekend. There arent many comic stores if any in my area. (I'd go for other comics too if I had more money)
*Looks at username*

Well you would like it wouldn't you?



Loved it, myself and very much interested in where Superior will go.


My view? If you're enjoying it then keep buying (provided you got the dough) If you're not enjoying it, don't buy it. Find something you do enjoy and buy that and then enjoy the hell out of that some more. Don't waste energy that you could use to celebrate something you love, to insult something you're not enjoying and have stopped buying. Don't like the promotion and marketing of this? Then dont read those articles. It's not all encompassing levels of marketing here... there is more than one comic being published, you dont have to read articles on a comic you hate.

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Old 01-12-2013, 08:11 PM   #116
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So excited for that, but I heard it's apparently the final season? I'd love another one, but if that's for the best then nothing I can do about it.
What, WHAT?!? Final season! If you're messing with me well done, if not your death with be slow and painful.

Though I will say the reruns never get old for me. Hell even my mother thinks that show is hilarious.


Spiderboy: did you ever read Spider-Man/Doc Ock Year One? Cause those mommy issues were pretty immense. Also it was just an awesome read. Good characterization, great fights and just a cool creepy story.

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Let me see .. Republicans are mostly gay ... Democrats oppose Republicans ... so Democrats are homophobic! :eek:

OMG, it makes sense now. Does Fox News know about this?
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:41 AM   #117
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 4

What show are you guys talking about? Who's Archer?

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Old 01-13-2013, 10:09 AM   #118
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 4

The animated spy show on the FX channel.

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Old 01-13-2013, 03:46 PM   #119
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 4

Huh...I've been looking and I can't see anything about it ending anymore...weird. A while back after I heard season 4 was announced, I read something that said it was its final season, I was pissed, then sad, then accepted it...but I don't know if that's still the case. Maybe the site got the info wrong?

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Old 01-13-2013, 04:39 PM   #120
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What show are you guys talking about? Who's Archer?
The greatest show ever, do yourself a favor and enter a zone in which there is danger.

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Let me see .. Republicans are mostly gay ... Democrats oppose Republicans ... so Democrats are homophobic! :eek:

OMG, it makes sense now. Does Fox News know about this?
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:40 PM   #121
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Huh...I've been looking and I can't see anything about it ending anymore...weird. A while back after I heard season 4 was announced, I read something that said it was its final season, I was pissed, then sad, then accepted it...but I don't know if that's still the case. Maybe the site got the info wrong?
So you were messing with me, well played dingo, well played.

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Let me see .. Republicans are mostly gay ... Democrats oppose Republicans ... so Democrats are homophobic! :eek:

OMG, it makes sense now. Does Fox News know about this?
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Old 01-13-2013, 06:16 PM   #122
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 4

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Originally Posted by moraldeficiency View Post
Well it was very good and through, every thing good and bad I noticed in the issue you addressed in some form. I think you're the only person I've read that has mentioned if Peter can stop ock from killing then the MJ thing becomes very off-putting indeed.
I know that in every review I've read so far, even the more positive ones, none seem to like the whole SpOck/MJ situation in the least. It's definitely the most apprehensive thing about Doc Ock as Spider-Man by far.

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Old 01-13-2013, 06:22 PM   #123
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 4

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Originally Posted by stillanerd View Post
I know that in every review I've read so far, even the more positive ones, none seem to like the whole SpOck/MJ situation in the least. It's definitely the most apprehensive thing about Doc Ock as Spider-Man by far.
Oddly it's the part I most like. Though I wish ock would tone down the douchebagery to an even 8.

Most of the other stuff (him outsmarting his opponents with prep, him inventing stuff) are things peter has been doing for a while so it doesn't seem that different. The one area ock has shined as superior in my ever so humble opinion is he see's MJ and acts like anyone with a pulse would and goes after that (albeit in a badly contrived, poorly plotted way) but at least he has the sense to think "why aren't we together, how am I not hitting that, what kind of an idiot breaks up with a smart, supportive, sweet and tough supermodel because there's a chance she might be in danger although even broken up she's still in the same level of constant peril anyway".

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Originally Posted by Pink Ranger View Post
Let me see .. Republicans are mostly gay ... Democrats oppose Republicans ... so Democrats are homophobic! :eek:

OMG, it makes sense now. Does Fox News know about this?
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:43 PM   #124
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 4

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Originally Posted by Thwip! View Post
*Looks at username*

Well you would like it wouldn't you?



Loved it, myself and very much interested in where Superior will go.


My view? If you're enjoying it then keep buying (provided you got the dough) If you're not enjoying it, don't buy it. Find something you do enjoy and buy that and then enjoy the hell out of that some more. Don't waste energy that you could use to celebrate something you love, to insult something you're not enjoying and have stopped buying. Don't like the promotion and marketing of this? Then dont read those articles. It's not all encompassing levels of marketing here... there is more than one comic being published, you dont have to read articles on a comic you hate.
I did pick up Superior(and the new Dark Horse Star Wars comic) and will continue to read it and eager to see the future issues. I did see several comics in the store and upcoming ones that I could be interested in picking up...but I will focus on Superior. Spidey and Doc Ock FTW! Although I hope Amazing returns someday.

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Old 01-14-2013, 10:30 AM   #125
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 4

I picked up Soul of the Hunter at Half Priced Books yesterday. I'd never read it and always wanted to and I'm glad to report that it's awesome. I loved Kraven's Last Hunt and the stories that branched from it (namely Torment, the Child Within, and Pursuit) and this definately has that feel. I think what I loved most about it was that it filled the "Spider-Man shaped hole in my heart" if I can be so cheesy. It's been years since I've had a chance to read a new adventure with "my" Spider-Man, where he and MJ are talking and acting as man and wife, not boyfriend and girlfried, or just friends. I had no idea what the plot was going in so it was brand new for me and all the Peter and MJ personal moments just filled that gap. The scenes between them were beautiful and really reminded me and how badly the new era of Spidey is missing out on such a fantastic pairing. It's a shame that, for some reason, people feel this sort of plot is out of place in Spider-Man. I will never understand that.

It was a great read. I'm glad I bought it.

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