The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - Part 143

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Blake told Bruce that Gordon didn't care who Batman was and him being the Commissioner, there would be no way the police would bother to question Reese if Gordon didn't want them to question him.

So because Gordon wasn't personally interested in knowing who Batman was that means the authorities don't interrogate well known sources of leads to Batman's identity and possible whereabouts, like Reese, after he's wanted for multiple murders, one of which was the city's D.A.

Priceless. You have a real funny idea about how law enforcement works. If decisions like that rested on Gordon's personal wants, he could have easily decided Batman was to be left alone for the multiple murders, too, because he doesn't care that Batman killed those people lol. The Police Commissioner's personal feelings don't get to decide things like that. The Mayor for starters would ensure Gordon pursues all leads, and Reese would be top of the list.

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Of course it's lazy writing if you believe a lot of the orphans had parents that were gunned down as you seem to believe.

In Gotham City, one of the most crime filled cities of the world, it's a dead cert.

Originally Posted by Excelsior.

Blake wasn't born within the eight year time gap. Blake was born when Gotham was a hellhole, as were his orphan peers. The point is that there had to have been other orphans who lost there parents by murder, but why is it that only he figured out Wayne was Batman?

Exactly.

But not just that, it's common knowledge that Bruce Wayne saw his parents murdered in front of him. How does this same angry look he had on his face make him Batman?

Originally Posted by kvz5

I found Blake's discovery of Bruce's identity lazy writing too but for some reason, Nolan made TDKR's Bruce Wayne (who he stresses as paranoid BTW!) suddenly dropping breadcrumbs about his double identity left and right which I just found downright odd. He didn't deny that he's Batman to some cop that he just met, he was talking about his "powerful friend" (and later proved who it was when he brought "Bruce Wayne" up to her when he's dressed as Batman) to a woman who just stole from him, and he and Fox were talking about "getting back to the game" in front of Miranda Tate.

LOL!!! I never even thought of those.

[georgec]

Originally Posted by kvz5

he and Fox were talking about "getting back to the game" in front of Miranda Tate.

I'm not sure protecting his identity was the most important thing less than 18 hours from a nuke going off.

Plus, given that Bruce disappeared for 5 months after having sexy time with Miranda, he probably assumed she knew who he was. If I were Bruce I might even figure Lucius let Miranda in on the secret since, as a trusted board member and one of the few people in the know about the bomb, they would maybe need her help to reconnect the core.

[BatLobsterRises]

Originally Posted by Doctor Who

Phoenix, Arizona. Midnight Showing at the IMAX down here in Tempe. This scene got a standing ovation, full of applause, cheers, and tears.

Wow, that's awesome. I have to admit, I kind of welled up a wee bit there on my first viewing.

A standing ovation is something I've never seen in the middle of a movie though. And I've been to a ton of midnights screenings in the NY/NJ area.

[Gotham's Knight]

That climb sends more emotions through me than any other movie.

[Travesty]

Originally Posted by georgec

I'm not sure protecting his identity was the most important thing less than 18 hours from a nuke going off.

Heh, maybe if his objective was to not survive...

[georgec]

Originally Posted by Travesty

Heh, maybe if his objective was to not survive...

Nah, Batman wasn't needed anymore in Gotham, remember? He came back to fight the League of Shadows. I doubt Bruce cared about protecting his identity at that point, and he wasn't concerned with being Batman long term.

[craigdbfan]

He wanted to live la vita bella in Italia with the bellissima Catwoman.

Can you really blame him?

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Excelsior.

Blake wasn't born within the eight year time gap. Blake was born when Gotham was a hellhole, as were his orphan peers. The point is that there had to have been other orphans who lost there parents by murder, but why is it that only he figured out Wayne was Batman?

Answer: he felt the "connection" yo.

I thought we were talking about the orphans now as shown in TDKR, but if not, then let's look at Batman keeping the mobs at bay scared ****less. I don't see crime being any higher during that year of Batman's crusade either to kill off any parents. The fact that we are only given another orphan who saw his father get shot brings that connection, yes, but it also just provides us with one other orphan who went through the same crap Bruce witnessed. That's fine by me personally.

Originally Posted by The Joker

So because Gordon wasn't personally interested in knowing who Batman was that means the authorities don't interrogate well known sources of leads to Batman's identity and possible whereabouts, like Reese, after he's wanted for multiple murders, one of which was the city's D.A.

Priceless. You have a real funny idea about how law enforcement works. If decisions like that rested on Gordon's personal wants, he could have easily decided Batman was to be left alone for the multiple murders, too, because he doesn't care that Batman killed those people lol. The Police Commissioner's personal feelings don't get to decide things like that. The Mayor for starters would ensure Gordon pursues all leads, and Reese would be top of the list.

Looking at a mayor who was fine with the story of Batman killing Harvey Dent without really no evidence to back it up or not even a detail investigation, who was fine when he was told the police are doing a training exercise, I'm sure authorities would be fine if it's told that Reese is making **** up or Gordon told them to back off on Reese. I'm shocked that you think Nolan's "law enforcement" ideas would be any better

Originally Posted by craigdbfan

He wanted to live la vita bella in Italia with the bellissima Catwoman.

Can you really blame him?

No one blames him, lol.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Looking at a mayor who was fine with the story of Batman killing Harvey Dent without really no evidence to back it up or not even a detail investigation, who was fine when he was told the police are doing a training exercise, I'm sure authorities would be fine if it's told that Reese is making **** up or Gordon told them to back off on Reese. I'm shocked that you think Nolan's "law enforcement" ideas would be any better

Batman was seen fleeing the scene of Dent's death by a platoon of Cops. Gordon and I assume his wife backed up the story that they saw Batman kill Dent. If the word and eye witness testimony of the Police Commissioner is not evidence, then what is?

You don't know there was no detailed investigation afterward. What would it turn up? There's no eyewitnesses except Gordon and his family who I am assuming backed up what Gordon told them to say. The fact of the matter is Batman DID break Dent's neck. They just don't know he did it saving Gordon's kid.

I won't make any excuses for the appalling writing of TDKR and the whole training exercise BS. If Gordon was written so stupidly as to send all of his Cops down under ground then why should the Mayor get any better writing?

[Anno_Domini]

So...you're saying Gordon and his wife can back up the same story...but Gordon can't tell the authorities that Reese was lying his ass off about Batman's identity or advise anyone to not speak to him?

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

So...you're saying Gordon and his wife can back up the same story...but Gordon can't tell the authorities that Reese was lying his ass off about Batman's identity or advise anyone to not speak to him?

How can Gordon make the declaration that Reese is lying his ass off? How could he know he's lying? Based on what?

He can't tell the authorities not to pursue a possible vital lead based on no reason other than he doesn't personally believe him lol. Joker turned half the city into an assassination squad for Reese because he was going to spill the beans about Batman's identity on National TV, who cited Reese as a credible source from a prestigious consultancy. No chance in hell Reese would not be top of their leads list for finding Batman. He was a huge loose end.

[Anno_Domini]

Based on saying he spoke to him...you know, lying, as Gordon and his wife did for that story of Batman killing Harvey Dent.

[BatLobsterRises]

Who's to say the Reese situation wasn't investigated in the 8 years?

I always assumed he had basically learned his lesson after Bruce saved his life TDK, and would have then decided to protect the secret.

In fact, if the police could prove that he did know the identity of Batman and wasn't giving it up, he could be charged with obstruction of justice. So it would be in Reese's best interest to just convince the police (or FBI) that he was bluffing from the start or was misinformed, and come up with a patsy for who he was intending to name as the Batman on GCN.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Based on saying he spoke to him...you know, lying, as Gordon and his wife did for that story of Batman killing Harvey Dent.

What are you talking about? Gordon just tells everyone that he had a private one on one interrogation with Reese, their major lead on the case, an interrogation that somehow nobody else but him saw and heard, and add to that he just "knows" Reese is lying lol? That's what you're saying?

How is that the same as the Harvey Dent situation, where Gordon and his wife's story is backed up by dozens of Cops seeing Batman running away from them at the scene of the crime like a guilty man? Not to mention Batman was WILLINGLY taking the blame for it.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

Who's to say the Reese situation wasn't investigated in the 8 years?

I always assumed he had basically learned his lesson after Bruce saved his life TDK, and would have then decided to protect the secret.

In fact, if the police could prove that he did know the identity of Batman and wasn't giving it up, he could be charged with obstruction of justice. So it would be in Reese's best interest to just convince the police (or FBI) that he was bluffing from the start or was misinformed, and come up with a patsy for who he was intending to name as the Batman on GCN.

Oh, of course. Reese telling anyone who cared to list he was bluffing or him and Gordon conspiring as much as others would believe Gordon and his wife conspired together to back up the fable of Batman breaking Harvey Dent's neck. Let alone, it is stated right in TDKR that Gordon didn't care who Batman was and acted that way until the last few minutes of the film; he would make sure Reese didn't tell anyone. To think otherwise is to make it seem you didn't pay attention, lol.

Originally Posted by The Joker

What are you talking about? Gordon just tells everyone that he had a private one on one interrogation with Reese, their major lead on the case, an interrogation that somehow nobody else but him saw and heard, and add to that he just "knows" Reese is lying lol? That's what you're saying?

How is that the same as the Harvey Dent situation, where Gordon and his wife's story is backed up by dozens of Cops seeing Batman running away from them at the scene of the crime like a guilty man? Not to mention Batman was WILLINGLY taking the blame for it.

Lol, you won't believe that, but you will believe Gordon has his wife back up a story of Batman killing Dent. I guess you only believe someone will go only so far on a falsehood story, right? Lol.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Lol, you won't believe that, but you will believe Gordon has his wife back up a story of Batman killing Dent. I guess you only believe someone will go only so far on a falsehood story, right? Lol.

What's so unbelievable about Gordon getting his own wife to back him up?

[Anita18]

Sorry to barge in, but this is just so good, I had to post it here:

Submitted by an employee at a costume shop:

(A cop comes in, in uniform and out of breath.)

Cop: “Batman.”

Employee: “Sorry?”

Cop: “Batman. Mask. Where can I find one?”

Employee: “Uh, we’ve got a selection of—”

(The cop grabs a mask, shoves a stack of money into the employee’s hand, and runs out.)

Employee: “What the f*** just happened?”

(I’m wondering the same thing, so I take off after the cop, only to find a second cop waiting for him.)

Second Cop: “You find one?”

Bat Cop: *puts on the mask* “Yeah. Think it’ll work?”

Second Cop: “It’s worth a shot…”

(They walk around the corner, so I follow to find a drunk man clinging to a second-story window dressed as Spider Man.)

Drunk Spidey: “Y’all just fake cops. Gonna be the Joker or some s*** behind that badge!”

Bat Cop: *in a deep voice* “Spiderman. Come on down. We have work to do.”

Drunk Spidey: *after a long pause* “We do?”

Bat Cop: “The city is in danger. I need your help.”

(Slowly, the drunk man climbs down until he’s hanging from the bars of the window. One of the cops has found a stepladder and they manage to cajole him into climbing down. It looks like they’re going to let him go until…)

Drunk Spidey: “Yo, Batman! Is there such thing as, like, bat-heroin? Cause I used all my spider heroin!”

http://notalwaysright.com/the-true-justice-league/25699

[georgec]

What did I just read? LOL.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by The Joker

What's so unbelievable about Gordon getting his own wife to back him up?

You're asking me? I'm perfectly fine with that idea as much as Gordon backing up Reese that he was just lying his ass off about knowing Batman's identity, or keeping any authorities off of talking to Reese. Only stating how I don't understand you can be fine with Gordon having his wife back up a lie but he wouldn't try anything to keep Reese out of any investigation.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

You're asking me?

Yes, you're the one who raised the point.

I'm perfectly fine with that idea as much as Gordon backing up Reese that he was just lying his ass off about knowing Batman's identity, or keeping any authorities off of talking to Reese. Only stating how I don't understand you can be fine with Gordon having his wife back up a lie but he wouldn't try anything to keep Reese out of any investigation.

Because Gordon wouldn't be able to keep Reese out of the investigation. That should be obvious. The man goes on national TV being cited as a credible source from a prestigious consultancy who's discovered Batman's true identity. There is no way Gordon could sweep him under the rug in an investigation. He'd be there top lead on the case.

Now if Reese backtracked on his TV announcement and said he didn't know anything about Batman then that's a different story. Gordon can't force him to confess to anything any more than anyone else in the authorities could. At worst Reese could be arrested for obstructing the course of justice.

[Excelsior.]

I thought we were talking about the orphans now as shown in TDKR

Why would I be talking about present Gotham when talking about Blake's time as an orphan?

but if not, then let's look at Batman keeping the mobs at bay scared ****less.

Blake looks like a man in his mid to late twenties, therefore it is very likely that he lost his father before Wayne ever became Batman. And even if he didn't, his older orphan peers had to have been.

The fact that we are only given another orphan who saw his father get shot brings that connection, yes, but it also just provides us with one other orphan who went through the same crap Bruce witnessed.

Unless he was in an institution where there were only five kids and him being the only orphan is plausible. But he wasn't.

That's fine by me personally.

If contrivance is your preference.

Him being the only one to have a "feeling" that Bruce Wayne was Batman among hundreds of other orphans, many of whom no doubt have one or both of their parents taken by the filth of the city, for no other reason other than that he was a character in the film is poor writing.

[Tequilla]

Originally Posted by fanboiii

What is the weakest plot point in the trilogy? John Blake discovering Bruce is Batman?

That's actually one of the strongest aspects of the movie (and of the whole trilogy).

Beautifully written , acted , frame , lighted.

The worst , not a plot point , more of a plot device...the bomb boat in TDK. Excruciating bad. The worst 2-3 minutes of any Nolan film.

[Anita18]

Originally Posted by Tequilla

That's actually one of the strongest aspects of the movie (and of the whole trilogy).

Beautifully written , acted , frame , lighted.

The worst , not a plot point , more of a plot device...the bomb boat in TDK. Excruciating bad. The worst 2-3 minutes of any Nolan film.

Funny, my sister's favorite part was when the big prisoner threw the detonator out the window. I knew she would enjoy the ferry experiment when I first saw TDK (I even told her she should see it because of Joker's "social experiment"), because she's a sociology major and is a huge believer in rehabilitation. She also had Stanford Prison Experiment guy Philip Zimbardo as a prof. Probably the only Asian woman to be excited to visit a maximum security prison for class. Not a huge Batman fan, but definitely one of the smartest people I know, and a huge nerd about that social stuff.

TDK really does have something for everybody.

[BlueLightning]

I must say, the ferries part are one of the highest points for me. There is a lot of tension, and a lot of debate and it is played in such a great manner. My favorite thing is that mentioned prisoner who throws away the detonator. And when he does it, this "criminal scum" instead of being filled with rage over the man who did this, remain silent. Because in the end, they feel it is the right thing to do. And whereas in the other boat they decided to blow his other peers, they just don't do it. Batman has no other choice than to trust those people, believing that ultimately life will prevail. And then the Joker's is defeated, he is proven wrong, not everybody is as bad as he is. Sure, as human beings we are fragile and we can fall. But part of being human is to persevere and have the strength to do whats right. And when their spirit is threatened again, he Batman takes the blow. Because they deserve it.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Yes, you're the one who raised the point.



Because Gordon wouldn't be able to keep Reese out of the investigation. That should be obvious. The man goes on national TV being cited as a credible source from a prestigious consultancy who's discovered Batman's true identity. There is no way Gordon could sweep him under the rug in an investigation. He'd be there top lead on the case.

Now if Reese backtracked on his TV announcement and said he didn't know anything about Batman then that's a different story. Gordon can't force him to confess to anything any more than anyone else in the authorities could. At worst Reese could be arrested for obstructing the course of justice.

Lol, how did I raise the point when you first mentioned Gordon and his wife backed up on a story? I only compared the idea that if someone is fine with that, they should be just as fine with the idea of helping Reese out in a very similar situation of lying. Helping Reese on lying about him not really knowing the identity of Batman and therefore keeping anyone from having to speak to him.

Originally Posted by Excelsior.

Why would I be talking about present Gotham when talking about Blake's time as an orphan?

Because Blake had to still be an orphan during the eight year gap. That made me think you were talking about the 'peacetime' gap for some reason.

Blake looks like a man in his mid to late twenties, therefore it is very likely that he lost his father before Wayne ever became Batman. And even if he didn't, his older orphan peers had to have been.

He's a rookie who also mentions he's in his first year in the script; Blake is only 21-22 tops.

GORDON That’s a job for the police?

BLAKE Sir, I’ve been a cop for a year and I've logged half a dozen arrests. When you and Dent cleaned the streets you cleaned ’em good. Pretty soon we’ll be chasing overdue library books.

And of course Blake lost his father before Bruce became Batman, but still...that was also during a time that Bruce didn't begin his crusade as Batman, but it's only widely guessing to say many of his orphan peers lost their parents to gun violence. It's just a massive assumption even when we are talking about Gotham.

Unless he was in an institution where there were only five kids and him being the only orphan is plausible. But he wasn't.

Just because there are orphans it means they lost their parents to gun violence or in a similar fashion of SEEING it happen such as Blake and Bruce though?

If contrivance is your preference.

It's not, and neither is this situation, but call it what you what. Opinions are very strong, and especially on these boards, so yah, lol.

Him being the only one to have a "feeling" that Bruce Wayne was Batman among hundreds of other orphans, many of whom no doubt have one or both of their parents taken by the filth of the city, for no other reason other than that he was a character in the film is poor writing.

And this is again, only widely assuming there are other orphans that lost their parents to gun violence AND saw one or both of their parents die right infront of them. THAT'S the connection between Robin John Blake and Bruce Wayne.