The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - Part 143

[MagnarTheGreat]

Even if Nolan used a different take of Cotillard for her last scene, it doesn't change the issue of where it's staged or that three other people stare at her with their lips parted utterly dumbfounded while simply letting her monologue on and on. The audience vicariously sees and feels the scene by the reactions of Bats, Cats, and Gordon. It was designed that way by Nolan to be dramatic, and Bane's death was designed to be anti-climactic so that the audience will quickly move on.

[Scarecrow_King]

Originally Posted by MagnarTheGreat

Even if Nolan used a different take of Cotillard for her last scene, it doesn't change the issue of where it's staged or that three other people stare at her with their mouths agape utterly dumbfounded while simply letting her monologue on and on. The audience vicariously sees and feels the scene by the reactions of Bats, Cats, and Gordon. It was designed that way by Nolan to be dramatic, and Bane's death was designed to be anti-climactic so that the audience will quickly move on.

Then they were both designed terribly.

[The Guard]

Pretty much.

[Excelsior.]

It was designed that way by Nolan to be dramatic, and Bane's death was designed to be anti-climactic so that the audience will quickly move on.

They may have been designed as such, but that doesn't change the fact the Tate's death was horribly executed and Bane's death felt anticlimactic. It's not about dying instantly. Two Face died instantly. It's that Bane's death felt insignificant. His death didn't any more implications on the narrative or themes. It immediately cheapened the character as a villain. It cheapened the film.

[MagnarTheGreat]

Two-Face died at the very end when there were four minutes of story left before the title card. There were 14 minutes of stuff left (Nolan cut some stuff like Selina leaving City Hall on the batpod) when Bane died, and two dramatic deaths after that, Talia's and Batman's (fake death). They had to move on quickly. I get their thinking there for their stuffed finale.

[ThePhantasm]

Even though Bane was not, I think, Talia's henchman but rather her co-commander, his anticlimactic death made him seem like her henchman.

[AnneFan]

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm

Even though Bane was not, I think, Talia's henchman but rather her co-commander, his anticlimactic death made him seem like her henchman.

I can see what you mean. Bane’s dead and then Talia escapes with the bomb, the film’s big plot device.

[vanson]

i think he could even cut that complete scene out where she dies, and cut directly to the point where shes dead. she really doesnt say anything important, maybe the scene with fox in the reactor room would have to go too then, but its pretty self-explanatory what goes on.

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

It is funny that it was all about the ''race to the reactor''... yet when Batman is right beside the bomb he decides to stand, open mouthed and listen to the villian spew her monologue slowly.

[shauner111]

Talias death speech was cool. Banes death was sudden and he was blown away by a goddamn missile. Talias death was fine, not good, not bad, but it was OK. I guess everybody on here who's making fun of it, they have all seen people die in front of their eyes in real life?? Talia was stuck in one place, shaking and her head could only move. I find the slight shaking to be the thing that saves it.

Anyways, thats my opinion, and i had no problem with any of those scenes.

[Tequilla]

Originally Posted by Pfeiffer-Pfan

It is funny that it was all about the ''race to the reactor''... yet when Batman is right beside the bomb he decides to stand, open mouthed and listen to the villian spew her monologue slowly.

Well , his plan was to take the bomb back to Fox right ? She's telling them she knew how to override the system and the flood control , so he's probably thinking what the hell he's going to do next. Listening to her was actually a great choice

[Dcknight]

Bane's death felt anticlimatic because his Character was going to shoot Batman in the face with a Shotgun, at that point, he was downgrading himself, by doing it simple, getting rid of the bat with only one shot.

Guess what? That all happens to him finally.

Didn't say it was great, but it had it's meaning. Catwoman killed him the way he would have killed the Batman.

[shauner111]

Talia had the slow death., just like how she thought Batman was going to die slow, in pain. Batmans had a build up to it that the others didnt have, but of course it turns out it wasnt a death. Banes was abrupt and quick. He deserved to be put out of his misery since he had gone through his whole life in pain. There was a balance there between them all.

I felt Ras had a build up to it. Two-Faces was very sudden. The only difference between him and Banes death was the fact that they showed his corpse afterwards. It worked for Dent because we needed to be reminded of what he once was and how his legacy can carry on. With Bane they didnt show him because you can imagine his body as a gross corpse (not only can u not show this, but it's better to imagine it IMO). And they didnt have to linger on what Bane meant or whatever, the focus had to be on Talia afterwards and who was going to stop her.

It worked out nicely i think.

[TheBat812]

The only problem I had with Bane's death was that I expected him to survive the blast, haha.

Talia's death was fine, I didn't notice any problem with it until fanboys started whining about it, and most people I know didn't have a problem with it either. To each his own.

[shauner111]

Originally Posted by TheBat812

The only problem I had with Bane's death was that I expected him to survive the blast, haha.

Talia's death was fine, I didn't notice any problem with it until fanboys started whining about it, and most people I know didn't have a problem with it either. To each his own.

That wouldnt make any sense if he survived that.

Yes exactly dude. I never noticed it either. And im sure if i never came online to these forums since the movie, i still wouldn't notice anything about her death.

[The Guard]

I found Nolan's insistence on killing almost all of his villains kind of lazy.

Especially with regard to THE DARK KNIGHT RISES. It would have been far more powerful to have both Talia and Bane survive, broken themselves, knowing they had failed in their mission because they were unable to break Bruce Wayne. The final moments with them could have been used to crystallize Batman's ideas about killing, revenge, justice, etc. Instead we got cheap action movie deaths with none of the conceptual depth to their final moments that Ra's Al Ghul and Two-Face received. I think the final handling of Talia and Bane was my biggest disappointment with TDKR.

[Picard Sisko]

It made sense to kill Ra's Al Ghul, hence the idea that he is "immortal." Scarecrow and Joker both survived.

3/5 villains were killed. 2 of them died at the end of the third film, when the franchise was over.

[shauner111]

Keeping bane alive would be a big mistake. He's a force to be reckoned with. You cant just lock up a guy like that and assume he's going to stay put forever. You can say the same for the Joker, but he's in Arkham and they can keep him down with drugs. Bane is a different story.

With Talia surviving, there would be too many fanboy questions about her possibly having a child like Damien and finding some way to keep the legacy of the League going within the family. Talia deserved to die like her father. And so did Bane.

Scarecrow and Joker survived as Picard says. And even Catwoman (who is not a villain, but you can say she has a past as a villain of sorts..she also survived). It's split. Maroni died, Falcone didnt.

[The Joker]

Raimi's Spider-Man trilogy has a worse rep for killing villains;

Green Goblin - Dead
Doc Ock - Dead
Venom -Dead
New Goblin - Dead

Only Sandman lived.

[Picard Sisko]

Originally Posted by shauner111

Keeping bane alive would be a big mistake. He's a force to be reckoned with. You cant just lock up a guy like that and assume he's going to stay put forever. You can say the same for the Joker, but he's in Arkham and they can keep him down with drugs. Bane is a different story.

Bane is just as human as the Joker. Why is he a different story? Behind bars all drugged up in Arkham, he'd be out of trouble.

With Talia surviving, there would be too many fanboy questions about her possibly having a child like Damien and finding some way to keep the legacy of the League going within the family. Talia deserved to die like her father. And so did Bane.

If the franchise were to continue, then I'd say it would be cool to keep the legacy of the League going. Though, how do we know she didn't have any children?

[Picard Sisko]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Raimi's Spider-Man trilogy has a worse rep for killing villains;

Green Goblin - Dead
Doc Ock - Dead
Venom -Dead
New Goblin - Dead

Only Sandman lived.

I didn't mind Green Goblin dying, especially since Gwen Stacy wasn't introduced in SM1. It was also for the best since it pushed the Harry Osborn revenge storyline into motion. New Goblin/Harry's death made sense since now his story arc was resolved. Really sad when he died though.

Doc Ock should have lived IMO, but I guess they weren't planning on doing a sinister six or anything.

Venom's death really pissed me off. There was NO REASON to kill him after he appeared for only 10 minutes (or less) at the end of Spider-Man 3. Sony knew he was a monkey maker, so why not keep him and have him return for sequels? Stupid, STUPID move.

[kvz5]

Originally Posted by shauner111

Keeping bane alive would be a big mistake. He's a force to be reckoned with. You cant just lock up a guy like that and assume he's going to stay put forever. You can say the same for the Joker, but he's in Arkham and they can keep him down with drugs. Bane is a different story.

With Talia surviving, there would be too many fanboy questions about her possibly having a child like Damien and finding some way to keep the legacy of the League going within the family. Talia deserved to die like her father. And so did Bane.

Showing them dying doesn't even matter to some. There are some loonies people out there who still believe that Ra's, Harvey, Talia, and Bane didn't die. I swear even if Nolan showed their body parts splattered all over, some would still be convinced that they're alive.

[c4foco]

Bane would be executed. He's not insane, he wouldn't go to Arkham.

[Kane52630]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Only Sandman lived.

By flying away majestically.

[RustyCage]

Originally Posted by Excelsior.

It's not about dying instantly. Two Face died instantly. It's that Bane's death felt insignificant. His death didn't any more implications on the narrative or themes. It immediately cheapened the character as a villain. It cheapened the film.

Originally Posted by The Guard

It would have been far more powerful to have both Talia and Bane survive, broken themselves, knowing they had failed in their mission because they were unable to break Bruce Wayne. The final moments with them could have been used to crystallize Batman's ideas about killing, revenge, justice, etc. Instead we got cheap action movie deaths with none of the conceptual depth to their final moments that Ra's Al Ghul and Two-Face received. I think the final handling of Talia and Bane was my biggest disappointment with TDKR.

^ These two posts summarize it the best. It honestly just feels like squandered potential.

Begins made us a compelling promise for the series, that we would be playing with big villains that have big ideas, and the climax of these confrontations would mean something philosophically. Leave a mark on your mind. Batman will have accomplished more than just 'ok, I beat the bad guys' for a change.

The Dark Knight took that promise and ran it even further down the field, gave us something philosophically bigger with the climax. And not just with the Joker, but also Harvey.

Rises had the potential to keep doing that, but it simply dropped the idea. I cannot fathom why.

The original approach was why I had utter faith in Nolan. Even if I could nitpick little details about the first two movies that I would have done a bit differently, it was no biggie, because I thought I knew he would still pull off something that would blow me away overall in this regard.

But apparently the old promise got lost somewhere in the process of making Rises. Bane deserved more, especially because they had begun crafting such a unique, impressive new take on him. What a waste of potential gold...

I'm becoming more convinced that this ending needed to be a two-parter to get more across.