All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 23

[herolee10]

I'm having such a surreal experience right now, in the sense where I'm watching a few very old interviews (like from MTV) where Brandon and Kate had gone on the TV shows to promote SR in the months heading into the film's release, and everyone was just so excited about it back then; with a few interviewers even commenting on how much they loved it and such; so much hype... and we all know on what became of that later on.

I just hope that history doesn't end up repeating itself here.

[747]

As a huge Superman fan I will always be biased towards him, and I much rather have a MOS 2 before JL than any other hero. Just introduce another hero in MOS 2 in a supporting role and maybe even allude to others.

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by 747

As a huge Superman fan I will always be biased towards him, and I much rather have a MOS 2 before JL than any other hero. Just introduce another hero in MOS 2 in a supporting role and maybe even allude to others.

I agree with most of that; I mean Superman has always been my favorite hero for as long as I can remember, and I've been dying to see him have his own successful franchise, especially after so many failed and disappointing attempts.

Be that as it may, I still wouldn't want to see another hero appear in any way for any of his solos. It's one thing to allude to them in his solo films, but another thing to have one of them there, and it could easily become another "Iron Man 2" type of scenario. If they introduced any other hero in his solo films, I'd prefer if it'd be someone from the "Superman family" (Superboy, Supergirl, Steel, etc) instead.

And yeah, i definitely want a MOS 2 before a JLA film, with MOS 2 not being treated as a direct lead in to JL like Iron Man 2 was for the Avengers.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by Smallville13

What if MOS3 is a definitive end though like if they did something similar to the end of All-Star or even Doomsday?

That would create some continuity-problems for sure.

I guess there are several scenarios you could choose with MOS and JL. I'd just prefer something that didnt interfere too much with MOS's own trilogy, should we get one. And I think a JL-movie would be a nice way to round of it all. With no sequels to that one.

[BH/HHH]

Originally Posted by herolee10

On another note, I just watched the animated featured "The Dark Knight Returns: Part 2", the one that featured Superman, and dear Lord...I Pray that we NEVER...EVER have to see ANY LIVE ACTION VERSION of Superman be written that way.

I mean seriously, the way that Superman was portrayed in that film/story-line, he's no hero at all. He's just a government stooge/lackey.

Which is why I HOPE that when Superman surrenders himself to the Military in MOS, that he's shown to still have some backbone and that he's surrendering himself on his own terms, not theirs.

I actually think he came across much better in the animated film than the graphic novel. You have to remember the Dark Knight Returns is set in its own world and that's the version if Superman in it. I mean I'm not saying I'm happy with his portrayal in the film but I actually got that that version was suited for that world and that particular story. Infact the line that made me understand was when Superman said to Batman it's their world not ours.

[Midnight Black]

Originally Posted by Excelsior.

Is there not a danger of the novelty factor being lost coming out after not one, but two Avengers flicks? The second of which will no doubt rise above formula (by virtue of being the sequel) and deliver something of substance? Therefore JLA can't be a safe team up flick like the Avengers.

Exactly JLA needs to push the envelope more so as not to even seem inferior to Avengers by directly copying its formula or riding off its success. I think the JLA film should definitely go the route MoS appears to be and be grittier, and more adult oriented and less kiddy. I enjoyed Avengers, but it was definitely a direct adaptation in style & story of its Disney counterpart, like most Disney films. In other words Avengers was like Pirates of the Caribbean Black Pearl or the Fellowship. I want JLA to be darker like Dead Man's Chest/Two Towers/Return of the King. Still fun, but the threat to be severe.

Originally Posted by herolee10

True; no matter which way it's done, there will always be pros and cons to it. I honestly don't think though that we can use the basis of these heroes having appeared on so many JL outlets on television, namely cartoons, and plus, with the JL Film, I honestly believe that one of the key aspects to emphasize on is that these remarkable heroes, who are established on their own, must come together in order to face a bigger foe; hell, it's something that Marvel kept emphasizing on when they were making "The Avengers", because while the Justice League is a group, it's not like so many other superhero groups where the heroes that it's consisted of are only known due to their affiliation with their respective groups; it's a group that's made up of well known solo heroes, hence the extra value of them uniting as one cohesive unit, and if there aren't any solo films down the line to introduce these heroes or expand on them, then it's very possible imho that their film counterparts will be lost within the identity of the group itself, hence the importance of some of these guys needing to have their own solo films in between or before some JLA films in order to expand on that and on their histories because I can guarantee many folks that a lot of the GA don't know much about the origins of some of these characters.

Personally, I rather have a sequel to MOS come out before any team up films. IF MOS especially does well in its performance then it DESERVES to have its own sequel within the next three years and the hell with a JLA film for pushing it aside when a sequel to a potentially successful MOS film is more likely to reel in profits than a questionable JL film.

I agree with a lot of what you say. If they don't go the route I suggested then I would definitely want them to go the way you propose.

I disagree though and feel that the GA may not know each character's exact origin, but knows their powers and who they are from previoius JL, Batman and Superman outlets. IMO that's a plus that DC has if any in that they can move into showing the heroes on screen without devoting entire solo films before an ensemble film before hand. I believe that more people could name DC heroes (even if they don't know they are apart of JL) than they could individual Marvel heroes, let along the members of Avengers before the film came out.

Also, what if when they did the dual or trilogy JL film they approached where not all of the main heroes were introduced in the first film alone so more time could be devoted to a couple of heroes.

For example what if in the first film they introduce Supes & GL (for whatever reason) in the first 2 Acts and setup up the reason why these two have come together possibly because of something that leads GL to investigate off of Earth. Then GL finds MM or whatever and the three heroes fight a bad buy, etc. etc. by the end of the film.

In the second film we lead with WW on her island and their is talk about something big going to happen to the Earth. WW stays on her island for most of act 1 & 2. During that time we are also shown Aquaman or the Flash. If shown Aquaman there could be possible hostility between the Amazons and Atlantis. If shown Flash he can be doing his thing when he comes across Superman. Superman tells him that he is working with someone (GL) and that something big may be occuring. A fight ensues and Supes and Flash team up. Maybe WW and/or Aquaman come and help for whatever reason, maybe not. However by the end of the film Supes and Flash have found another piece of info/evidence of what's to come by beating up some baddies or something. However, flash is unable to use his CSI skills to deduce what the tech or whatever is and how or why it is important. In comes Batman from the shadows and says "Maybe I can help." They then are back at the Batcave and discover what's to come

In the third film we have now establish each character and the possible upcoming threat or so the heroes think. Then we get Darksied or a Braniac invasion and all heroes are back together and fight it out for the most part of the film (think Return of the King). Heroes win, maybe someone dies, enters the speed force, or all go back to their daily lives. Superman suggests that they keep in touch and team up for future threats. They all agree except for Batman, but says if they need him, he'll be around. The end lol

It doesn't have to go that way, just an idea. However, I don't think that cramming all the heroes in one movie is needed. They can be introduced over the course of the dual/trilogy and all be shown on screen at the same time in the last film. Heck we probably don't even need the main 7, maybe just Supes, Bats, WW, GL, MM, and Flash. Cyborg could be mentioned or introduce maybe as a victim of the fights in the second film or third. He could be an athlete/bystander that was hurt during one of the fights and his father saves his life by using cybernetics. A twist could be his father works for Luther and Luther comes in and is pleased with they Cyborg as a possible weapon or prototype to use against Superman, idk.

Also maybe Aquaman is mainly shown in the second film and only mentioned or briefly shown in the third as he is fighting with Amazons and Atlantians to combat the threat and is away from the main team.

I think there are a few ways they could do it and make to make it work.

Originally Posted by Lone

I like the idea of a JL movie where the threat and conflict is so great that it would take a trilogy to resolve. The threat in The Avengers was more bark and less bite IMO.

I think they could forgo the solo movies of The Flash, WW etc because they'd have three movies to set up their character and use that as a launch pad for their solo movies later on.

I agree and think that it should definitely be an option Warner/DC considers in order to get the ball rolling and try something different. Yes, I would like to see a MoS film before JL, but to have a WW, Flash, a GL sequel or reboot, and possibly a Batman reboot is overkill IMO.

Howver, if they did MoS2: World's Finest and change that aspect to either include GL or Batman at the end as somewhat of a cameo to lead into JL film then I would possibly be okay with that. I could see them using the "World's Finest" tag and changing the lineup as Fox did with XMen:FC.

Originally Posted by Smallville13

I think a big part of what made Avengers so successful was that each of the main characters were established. There was one character that they needed to establish and get right so as not to bring the whole production down: The Hulk. One character. Hell even the villain was established. Now how many characters has WB got to knock out of the park inside of ~150mins. Well not Batman and Superman, let's give them that. At least five other heroes though, not too mention somehow avoid association with the dreck that was Green Lantern. Plus they have to somehow flesh out Darkseid as well.

Disney/Marvel put the time in and really worked hard to position everything right for Avengers. They basically showed WB how to do it. But WB doesn't care, they want their cake and they want to eat it now without having to do the hard yards.

Solo films are the way to go. They show if the characters can stand on their own 2 feet first. They'll also be an indicator for WB to see if they can maintain a coherent tone across multiple films and very different characters and story styles. So when they inevitably don't, someone smart inside WB will be able to point to them and show how it would harm what Nolan/Snyder have done with their films if they tried to merge.

Edit: Oh and the excuse and reasoning that the JLU animated shows already establish these characters to the GA is bull. Not good enough.

How is that bull and not good enough. DC has had Superfriends, JL/JLU, multiple Batman cartoons, GL, YJ, Batman films, Superman films, Flash tv show, and a WW tv show to really establish the characters. I agree that the layman/GA would not be able to tell many of the characters origin stories, but they could sure name and identify the characters and possibly a power or two. That is one plus DC has over Marvel IMO. They could by pass the traditional solo films and stretch out the ensemble film.

However, if they do wait I think 2018-2020 is a reasonable time frame to get the ball rolling to lead up to a JL film. However, I just think some characters really don't need their own solo films before JL. MM; Aquaman (maybe); Cyborg; John Stewart could be introduced in the GL reboot or sequel along with Hal, so he doesn't; and Flash possibly doesn't. Flash's rogues gallery is pretty comical so unless they revamp a villain or give him multiple villains in a solo film, it could possibly be a let down. However, if it comes after a JL film then he could fight villains that could possibly build tech from the Darksied or Braniac Invasion war that could give him a challenge against his speed.

Originally Posted by herolee10

Agreed; if there are any characters that shouldn't be given solo films right away, it should be the ones that many would feel would have the hardest time carrying a film on their own, thus wait and see on how critics and fans react towards their presence in the ensemble. I mean, the Hulk became a force to reckon with again once the Avengers was released because he was done right in that film, as opposed to his last two solo films.

And I'd say, have Batman introduced in the JLA film since he needs more time to wait before he has a solo film himself.

I'm confused are you agree with him or disagreeing with him. Cause it sounded as if Smallville wanted solo films before JL, but that you're suggesting the opposite.

Do you want a JL film before others get their solo film or after?

Originally Posted by Rust

Or even better IMO:

Man of Steel (2013)
Flash, Wonder Woman or GL-reboot (2014)
Man of Steel 2 (2016)
World's Finest (part Batman-reboot/re-introduction) (2017)
Man of Steel 3 (2019)
Justice League (2020)

I dig this minus the World's Finest being heavily Superman influenced. If it's solely a Batman reboot with the title "World's Finest" that is fine. I also wouldn't mind seeing a direct-to-dvd cartoon of World's Finest that does/doesn't tie in to a JL film between MoS3. However, that's a lot of Superman if WF is live-action and he is included. Also wouldn't mind seeing MoS3 after JL.

Originally Posted by herolee10

I agree with most of that; I mean Superman has always been my favorite hero for as long as I can remember, and I've been dying to see him have his own successful franchise, especially after so many failed and disappointing attempts.

Be that as it may, I still wouldn't want to see another hero appear in any way for any of his solos. It's one thing to allude to them in his solo films, but another thing to have one of them there, and it could easily become another "Iron Man 2" type of scenario. If they introduced any other hero in his solo films, I'd prefer if it'd be someone from the "Superman family" (Superboy, Supergirl, Steel, etc) instead.

And yeah, i definitely want a MOS 2 before a JLA film, with MOS 2 not being treated as a direct lead in to JL like Iron Man 2 was for the Avengers.

What if the hero comes at the end of his films, as a cameo? I also wouldn't mind seeing Supergirl or if she dons the name Powergirl/Powerwoman as a statement of woman empowerment/feminism and not under the shadow of Superman and the rest of the Superman family in MoS2 or 3.

[Midnight Black]

Originally Posted by Rust

That would create some continuity-problems for sure.

I guess there are several scenarios you could choose with MOS and JL. I'd just prefer something that didnt interfere too much with MOS's own trilogy, should we get one. And I think a JL-movie would be a nice way to round of it all. With no sequels to that one.

No sequel(s) to JL? I don't know if I could deal with that. However, I would be fine with MoS3 or in a JL film/series Supes dying/being killed.

Then if they decide to resurrect Supes they could introduce that storyline from the comics or do something new. JL3: The Search for Supes

[Simo]

Anybody spoke about the new EW issue that new photo came from? Just got my issue and MOS is the first film listed in their "40 Movies We Can't Wait For" feature with that new photo and the old photo of Superman in front of the vault door.

Preview is small but one interesting bit that was new to me at least is that the film begins on Krypton.

[BH/HHH]

Originally Posted by Simo

Anybody spoke about the new EW issue that new photo came from? Just got my issue and MOS is the first film listed in their "40 Movies We Can't Wait For" feature with that new photo and the old photo of Superman in front of the vault door.

Preview is small but one interesting bit that was new to me at least is that the film begins on Krypton.

Well they could just think that it does rather than it actually starting on Krypton

[Zionite1]

On the topic of doing JL like a lotr trilogy...do you understnd what you are asking.It wld mean a rlease schedule like this
2013-MOS
2015-JL 1
2016-JL 2
2017-JL3
2018/2019-MOS 2

In other words 5-6 years b4 we see a MOS sequel-so i say no to the LOTR idea

Originally Posted by Smallville13

What if MOS3 is a definitive end though like if they did something similar to the end of All-Star or even Doomsday?

Then have Superman return form the dead/sun at the beginnin of Justice league problem solved.


Ive come to accept that we are getting a JL movie whether we like it or not-howver if MOS is a big success WB will probably force JL to be organised in such a way it doesnt interfere with the MOS sequels.If its just a decent hit or a flop they wont care

[Simo]

Originally Posted by BH/HHH

Well they could just think that it does rather than it actually starting on Krypton

To quote..

The new film will fly or fail based on the interests of young movie-goers, and that constituency is not especially OMG when it comes to the FDR era. Snyder says the alien heritage of Superman will be more of a factor in this installment, which begins on the distant planet of Krypton and doesn't presume that Metropolis residents will cheer the first time they see a soaring man.

[BH/HHH]

Originally Posted by Simo

To quote..

ah fair enough

[Zionite1]

Not sure how If eel about it starting on Krypton-I do not want to spend 30 minutes on Krypton waiting for the action to unfurl.I got bored with the krypton scenes in SM.I also hope the film isnt linear so asto seem like another boring origin movie.

[Dr.]

Originally Posted by Zionite1

Not sure how If eel about it starting on Krypton-I do not want to spend 30 minutes on Krypton waiting for the action to unfurl.I got bored with the krypton scenes in SM.

If you’d like, I could provide you with my l-o-n-g list of STM criticisms. But this wouldn't include the Krypton or Smallville sequences. I thought they were very well done - near perfect.

[ConnorKon-El]

Film starts in Krypton. I'm not that surprised, i just hope it's not too long.

[Zionite1]

Originally Posted by Dr.

If you’d like, I could provide you with my l-o-n-g list of STM criticisms. But this wouldn't include the Krypton or Smallville sequences. I thought they were very well done - near perfect.

lol.The only part of stm I loved starts form Krypton blowing to clark becoming superman.evrything else...

[ThePhantasm]

I love Krypton scenes. I don't see the issue.

[747]

Krypton scenes in STM are amazing. And the concept of Kyrpton itself has huge potential. I wouldn't at all mind 20-25 minutes spent on Krypton in MoS.

[ConnorKon-El]

Originally Posted by 747

Krypton scenes in STM are amazing. And the concept of Kyrpton itself has huge potential. I wouldn't at all mind 20-25 minutes spent on Krypton in MoS.

I think twenty mins will be the max.

If it's a fresh and interesting take on Krypton i'm up for it, especially with Shannon saying in an interview that he fights Crowe.

[andresgvasquez]

Judging by the trailers and images, I think the movie will go this way:

1. Krypton: War, Jor-El death, Krypton destruction, Kal-El arriving to Earth, Kent family finds the ship.

2. Clark's childhood: Clark controlling his powers, school bus accident, he finds the ship and the "S" key but Pa Kent wants him to never use his powers anymore.

3. Adult Clark: He already knows how to control his powers, but then there is a tornado in Smallville and Pa Kent dies, Clark manage to save a lot of people, but they look bad at him thinking he is a danger. So Clark flees to Greenland and becomes a fisher. In the oil station accident everything goes the same. Clark is confused.

Then, in a night fishing alone and thinking on his future, a ship appear on sky and falls on the ground. Clark enters and the ship gives him all the answers he needs. He uses the "S" key to open some sort of vault in the ship. And then there is, so radiant and beautiful, the suit!

4. Superman: Clark decides to be a hero, he goes out the ship and flies for first time. He goes to Smallville and explains everything to Ma Kent. But then, 2 ships land on the farm: Zod and Faora. Clark goes out and then Zod tells him their plan to build a new Krypton on Earth. Superman disagrees and there starts a big battle on Smallville. The small town gets almost destroyed. Military arrives and joins the battle to capture the aliens but Superman, Zod and Faora escapes.

5. Metropolis: Clark hides in Metropolis and starts working in Daily Planet. Meets Lois and both fall in love. There is another battle of Superman vs Zod in the city but this time Military captures Superman. They interrogate him and keeps him in a maximum security jail.

6. Gravity beam: Zod arrives to Metropolis with an anti-gravity beam and starts to blow everything away to "clean" the earth to build the new Krypton.

Now military has to trust Superman to save the world from destruction. Finally, they decide to let him go. Superman gathers all his forces and flies directly to the beam origin, completely destroying it. He falls from sky seriously injured. Lois runs to him and then... beautiful kiss!.

Superman is now a hero, and the world finally accepts him.

MAN OF STEEL

[ThePhantasm]

I loled at how you threw the title in there at the end, classic Nolan-style.

[747]

I dig that as an outline.

[ConnorKon-El]

Actually i think the military captures Superman after he is thrown in the bank vault in Smallville.

[GreenKToo]

I think he gives up to show them he means no harm.

[ConnorKon-El]

Originally Posted by GreenKToo

I think he gives up to show them he means no harm.

Obviously. Unless those handcuffs are made of Kryptonite