All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 23

[Smallville13]

Originally Posted by hopefuldreamer

It baffles me too.

And something like World's Finest would be SO MUCH more sensible to start off with, and even that i'd rather leave until after MOS2 and one rebooted Batman movie at least.

And I think a World's Finest movie leads so easily into a JL movie.

And can you imagine the hype for a JL movie, AFTER a World's Finest movie had been successful and got everyone gaging for more?

Why on earth do they not see that there are other options than just pointing at The Avengers and going 'I want one of those', without even considering how potentially destructive that knee jerk reaction could be to their reputation and their already existing superhero franchises.



:

See even here is where I differ in opinion.

I think there's nothing more cinematic than a self-contained trilogy that completely covers the journey of Clark. Disney/Marvel are essentially breaking new ground and essentially serializing film. Which is pretty amazing. But I just don't want MOS to turn into a serial format and tie into other properties that spoil it. I want a traditional professional 3 film story just like TDK trilogy and LOTR. I still think that works best for cinema.

I wouldn't mind if there's an unsaid bond between the TDK universe and the MOS universe, but I don't think it ever needs to be made explicit.

[Gianakin_]

I hate the fact that Marvel is serializing film. It kinda defeats the purpose. Marvel movies seem far smaller to me than, self contained trilogies for that very reason.

[Micromind]

There is a saturation of comic book movies happening right now, Marvel is committed to releasing two movies every year, and movie making rights to other Marvel properties that have been handed over to Fox and Sony will release one Marvel movie every two years.

WB has only Superman right now, it is too soon to reboot Batman as TDKR will remain fresh in people's memories for three years (at least).

WB are clueless as to how to handle Wonder Woman and Flash after failure of Green Lantern (They may have some good scripts, but then they are afraid of failing again.)

The way forward is (to them) is to make a Justice League movie and after it's success, launch other solo Superhero movies like WW, Flash and the new Batman movie.

The problem is, they don't have much time after Iron Man 3, MOS, Thor 2, Wolverine, Avengers 2 and GOTG, I think there is a need to give this genre is rest for a while.

Edit: Just take a look at how many movie have a theme of alien invasion, this type of stuff gets old real fast.

[Rust]

What if the JL-movie took place in the future 5-10 years after the MOS-trilogy? Then the trilogy could be a standalone thing far from the JL-timeline. OR.. MOS3 could introduce JL-characters assisting Superman in taking down Brainiac tying it together with JL even though a JL-movie is released BEFORE MOS3. So MOS3 could be part JL-prequel. If you follow? It would get a little challenging timeline-wise, but it could be done, I guess.

In any case, if JL happens it should take place in the future when Supes has been established for some years.

[Smallville13]

Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins

There is a saturation of comic book movies happening right now, Marvel is committed to releasing two movies every year, and movie making rights to other Marvel properties that have been handed over to Fox and Sony will release one Marvel movie every two years.

WB has only Superman right now, it is too soon to reboot Batman as TDKR will remain fresh in people's memories for three years (at least).

WB are clueless as to how to handle Wonder Woman and Flash after failure of Green Lantern (They may have some good scripts, but then they are afraid of failing again.)

The way forward is (to them) is to make a Justice League movie and after it's success, launch other solo Superhero movies like WW, Flash and the new Batman movie.

The problem is, they don't have much time after Iron Man 3, MOS, Thor 2, Wolverine, Avengers 2 and GOTG, I think there is a need to give this genre is rest for a while.

Edit: Just take a look at how many movie have a theme of alien invasion, this type of stuff gets old real fast.

But why rush into it at all then. If MOS is a success then WB can still bank on MOS2 and MOS3 to be successful as well. Would that not be enough? Also if Guillermo del Toro gets to do the Dark Universe film there's another fresh take on some of DCs properties they can hopefully make money from. That's plenty of good films through to 2020 that they can live on.

Just because Disney proved that a shared serialized Marvel universe in film can work doesn't mean WB has to do the same.

Y'know what kinda worries me, and this is kinda silly. Is people like Amy Adams who I have a lot of respect for to be brought down to mediocrity because WB is trying to serialize their films as well. I'd hate for her to be like the Gwyneth Paltrow of the JL film. Amy is such a class act and I'd hate to see that happen to her because of her involvement with the Superman franchise. I want everyone to be proud of working on Superman.

I guess I understand why most people here want JL to come about. It's a fanboys dream to see the main 7 DC heroes brought to life on the big screen. I get it, I really do. But my love for Superman far outweighs all that. I want what's best for him and everyone involved in MOS. I want a trilogy for Superman where he's exclusive to his own world. Something I can be proud of and cherish forever.

[Project862006]

lois lane is not pepper potts lol

[Micromind]

Just because Disney proved that a shared serialized Marvel universe in film can work doesn't mean WB has to do the same.

I have already stated that I would prefer that All studios (Including Marvel Studios, Fox, Sony and WB give comic book genre a rest for four years after 2015, but that's not going to happen.) Why ?

So, WB are depending upon Justice League movie to launch their other super hero properties, not just because they wish to serialize them.

meanwhile, Fox are having plans to create their own mini Marvel cinematic universe.

[GreenKToo]

I can't see this JL film as anything but an attempt to cash in on the success of the Avengers.
WB should have got the ball rolling on this 4 or 5 years ago with solo films instead of sitting on their azzes until Avengers came out then trying to rush around and make it..

They could have made a Flash, WW, and WF film by now, but nooooo, they have been too skittish and are now trying to play catch up. (granted, they tried with GL, but it was the wrong director, and the wrong actor playing Hal )
It's not that i'm against a JL film, i'm not, its how they appear to be going about it that I don't like..

[Smallville13]

Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins

I have already stated that I would prefer that All studios (Including Marvel Studios, Fox, Sony and WB give comic book genre a rest for four years after 2015, but that's not going to happen.) Why ?

So, WB are depending upon Justice League movie to launch their other super hero properties, not just because they wish to serialize them.

meanwhile, Fox are having plans to create their own mini Marvel cinematic universe.

But really though, why can't they hire a really good writer and director for a Wonder Woman film, or a Flash film. I don't see how JL is their last remaining hail mary option before the superhero fad is over.

[GreenKToo]

for some reason, they don't believe solo films will work with the lesser characters..my opinion.

[Micromind]

But really though, why can't they hire a really good writer and director for a Wonder Woman film, or a Flash film. I don't see how JL is their last remaining hail mary option before the superhero fad is over.

Failure of Green Lantern has scared them. There was some movement on Flash and WW properties, these things always take time.

Flash movie has been in development for many years, WB had a script for Flash movie written by Goyer, but it was not considered good as they thought that it was too "dark" and it was true to some extent.

Wonder Woman movie was in development for many years, Joss Whedon was attached to the project to write and direct and he took more than two years to write a script, he even admitted having difficulties writing her script. The Execs were apparently divided on their opinion about whedon's script, so were many fans (who had seen it.)

Whedon moved on to Marvel to direct Avengers.

[hopefuldreamer]

Originally Posted by Smallville13

See even here is where I differ in opinion.

I think there's nothing more cinematic than a self-contained trilogy that completely covers the journey of Clark. Disney/Marvel are essentially breaking new ground and essentially serializing film. Which is pretty amazing. But I just don't want MOS to turn into a serial format and tie into other properties that spoil it. I want a traditional professional 3 film story just like TDK trilogy and LOTR. I still think that works best for cinema.

I wouldn't mind if there's an unsaid bond between the TDK universe and the MOS universe, but I don't think it ever needs to be made explicit.

In a perfect world as a Superman fan over everything else, heck yeah I agree.

But was trying to be a bit more realistic. And realistically, I can see why they feel they have to do a team up, in order to match Marvel. Especially with Days of Future Past also coming up (which is a team up in a sense, in that it could be meshing two movie worlds together).

I just personally think, if they HAVE to do a team up at all, that World's Finest would have been a much more logical choice as their next step. THEN lead into JL.

But trying to do JL, with no lead up whatsoever? I'm sorry, but that has the potential to be such a gigantic failure.

Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins

There is a saturation of comic book movies happening right now, Marvel is committed to releasing two movies every year, and movie making rights to other Marvel properties that have been handed over to Fox and Sony will release one Marvel movie every two years.

WB has only Superman right now, it is too soon to reboot Batman as TDKR will remain fresh in people's memories for three years (at least).

WB are clueless as to how to handle Wonder Woman and Flash after failure of Green Lantern (They may have some good scripts, but then they are afraid of failing again.)

The way forward is (to them) is to make a Justice League movie and after it's success, launch other solo Superhero movies like WW, Flash and the new Batman movie.

The problem is, they don't have much time after Iron Man 3, MOS, Thor 2, Wolverine, Avengers 2 and GOTG, I think there is a need to give this genre is rest for a while.

Edit: Just take a look at how many movie have a theme of alien invasion, this type of stuff gets old real fast.

Have to agree with you there. We are incredibly lucky to live in a time where Superhero movies are so damn popular. But it won't last forever. There will be a time when they will have to 'give it a rest' for a while.

[Smallville13]

Originally Posted by hopefuldreamer

In a perfect world as a Superman fan over everything else, heck yeah I agree.

But was trying to be a bit more realistic. And realistically, I can see why they feel they have to do a team up, in order to match Marvel. Especially with Days of Future Past also coming up (which is a team up in a sense, in that it could be meshing two movie worlds together).

I just personally think, if they HAVE to do a team up at all, that World's Finest would have been a much more logical choice as their next step. THEN lead into JL.

But trying to do JL, with no lead up whatsoever? I'm sorry, but that has the potential to be such a gigantic failure.



Have to agree with you there. We are incredibly lucky to live in a time where Superhero movies are so damn popular. But it won't last forever. There will be a time when they will have to 'give it a rest' for a while.

It just seems like too big of a risk. I'm hopeful enough people high enough at WB realize this. I'm sure Nolan and Snyder have some sway with them.

[ElDuderino]

Originally Posted by Smallville13

Zack Snyder 1 year ago:

“It doesn’t. Like what Chris Nolan is doing and what I’m doing with Superman, what they’ll do with Justice League will be it’s own thing with it’s own Batman and […] Superman. We’ll be over here with our movie and they’ll kind of get to do it twice which is kind of cool.”

So what changed in the last 12 months... ??... hmm oh that's right: The Avengers came out.

I'd like to think that this whole entire re-positioning had nothing to do with greed by the higher ups at WB. But why do I not.

Wait -- this just proves (although we knew it all along) that WB was planning to do JL regardless of the success of The Avengers. So, the argument now is that the success of The Avengers is making them tie the two movies together?

I guess that could be right. But it was always a mind-bogglingly stupid idea to have two separate universes, so if our options are separate universes and cohesive universes, then thank all that is holy for The Avenbers.

[BH/HHH]

I don't know why people talk like the superhero genre is gonna fade out. End of the day it is now a genre, aslong as the films are good people will go see them.

[ElDuderino]

Originally Posted by craigdbfan

We know that it's a commissioned and directionless picture that WB is now desperate to make because of the success of The Avengers. It's being made for all the wrong reasons.

Soulless is the word I'm looking for.

This is ridiculous. Before Avengers they were going to do a cartoonish, separate Justice League. Now, they're doing a JL based in the thoughtful, emotional, realistic -- soulful -- worlds of the Batman trilogy and MOS.

The Avengers looks to have actually improved the JL movie, by not making it a pure money grab. Someone at WB woke up and said, hey our version of this team movie can be in the serious, dramatic style of the Batman and Superman movies we're making.

Making a more serious movie, rather than a popcorn kid's movie (which is what they were going for before Avengers), is a good thing.

[STARMAN]

I'm focussing on MOS. I'm not going to worry about Justice League for now. I don't feel like it effects the first MOS movie unless they force some terrible post credit scene JL tie in. I'm just going to enjoy that we're getting MOS in a few months after waiting for so long.

[Smallville13]

Originally Posted by ElDuderino

Wait -- this just proves (although we knew it all along) that WB was planning to do JL regardless of the success of The Avengers. So, the argument now is that the success of The Avengers is making them tie the two movies together?

I guess that could be right. But it was always a mind-bogglingly stupid idea to have two separate universes, so if our options are separate universes and cohesive universes, then thank all that is holy for The Avenbers.

The Avengers showed WB how profitable the shared universe could be. I don't believe the JL film was moving ahead much at all a year ago. It seems to have been stuck in limbo for years. Justice League Mortal being as close as it ever got where they had a director and cast attached.

[ElDuderino]

Originally Posted by Smallville13

But really though, why can't they hire a really good writer and director for a Wonder Woman film, or a Flash film. I don't see how JL is their last remaining hail mary option before the superhero fad is over.

Because the general audience doesn't care about a Flash or WW movie. They're just not strong enough characters. Could it be done successfully? Perhaps, but it's a long shot.

[Smallville13]

Originally Posted by ElDuderino

Because the general audience doesn't care about a Flash or WW movie. They're just not strong enough characters. Could it be done successfully? Perhaps, but it's a long shot.

The same could have been said for Iron Man and Captain America before their first respective films came out.

[Rust]

It's a bigger risk maybe, but dont see it as a recipe for failure at all. No more different than so many movies joggling several big characters and parallel stories at once, LOTR for instance. I dont see what the big problem is. It's just a different way of finding out which characters are the most popular, so that they can get their own feature accordingly. I welcome it to the more obvious approach Marvel has taken.

[ElDuderino]

Originally Posted by Smallville13

The Avengers showed WB how profitable the shared universe could be. I don't believe the JL film was moving ahead much at all a year ago. It seems to have been stuck in limbo for years. Justice League Mortal being as close as it ever got where they had a director and cast attached.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying -- it's all Avengers really did. And we should all be happy as hell about that. We're still going to get at least 3 solo Superman movies, but we don't have to deal with separate universes now, which was the dumbest idea I've ever heard come from Hollywood.

[STARMAN]

The success of the first Iron Man is what really launched everything for Marvel. It sent them on their way.

[Smallville13]

Mark Millar 7 months ago:

"A pal of mine is good friends with the new Justice League screenwriter and said his take on the team is incredible. Very real-world and not at all what you might expect. WB has a chequered history with their superhero characters. They’re great with their boy wizards, but less consistent with their DC stable. But my chum said that this could be a thing of beauty and has been in the works for a little while now, not just an Avengers knock-off. Best of luck to them. The tidbits I heard sound quite dark and mature, which isn’t what I expected. But word on Gangster Squad is great too, so I feel this is in really good hands."

Gangster Squad is currently 44% on Rottentomatoes, and it's this Will Bealls only credit.

[hopefuldreamer]

Originally Posted by Smallville13

It just seems like too big of a risk. I'm hopeful enough people high enough at WB realize this. I'm sure Nolan and Snyder have some sway with them.

I wish I shared your optimism

Originally Posted by BH/HHH

I don't know why people talk like the superhero genre is gonna fade out. End of the day it is now a genre, aslong as the films are good people will go see them.

It's really hard to know what will happen in terms of the popularity of these films though.

I mean, the whole reason they wanna get a JL movie out is because they are afraid they'll miss the 'window of opportunity' where people actually love these movies as much as they do right now.

While I personally think they should avoid 'over crowding' at the moment, and just wait for the NEXT 'window of opportunity to come after Marvel's used up pretty much all their big name heroes in one go and kind of has to let it's 'universe' take a bow... with that much money making dollar signs flash in their eyes, they just aren't going to do that.