Economics of the MCU

[Mr. Dent]

Some interesting articles on the economics of the MCU posted by THR and Deadline today.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hea...ney-jrs-518837
http://www.deadline.com/2013/05/robe...iations-fight/

This is some very interesting stuff. Apparently Joss Whedon's deal with Marvel is worth $100m, RDJ is leading the charge "like a big brother" to get his co-working Avengers paid more, the break even point for The Avengers was $1.1b (wtf lol), and analysts believe Marvel's acquisition of Marvel will have paid for itself in 15 years, far earlier than expected.

The issue going forward is how many of the Avengers stars and starlets are still bound by early agreements and longterm options which Marvel can continue to exploit individually. To counter, I’ve learned the Avengers cast are becoming united behind Robert Downey Jr who is seen as the “leader” – like “a big brother” in the words of one rep - for all the younger actors in the ensemble. “He’s the only guy with real power in this situation. and balls of steel, too. He’s already sent a message that he’s not going to work for a place where they treat his colleagues like ****,” one source explains. Another rep tells me, “I have four words for Marvel – ‘**** you, call Robert.’”

Cruetz believes Disney CEO Robert Iger’s $4.3 billion acquisition of the company in 2009 will have paid for itself in 15 years, far earlier than analysts first predicted.

[DarthSkywalker]

All that is left is the war!

This definitely explains certain casting decision imo. It is kinda of amazing how badly the actors have taken it so far. But here comes the double edged sword. How lucrative is the franchise if you start messing with the talent?

They put their faith in the talent and the talent over delivered. Now they don't want to reward them. What happens if the talent starts saying no? Is it Tony Stark or RDJ? Do the girls go nuts for Thor and Loki, or Hemsworth and Hiddleston?

This is why you hear the talk of re-casting and "trilogies". To get rid of "expensive" bits. There is no way Hemsworth shouldn't be Thor for a decade at least. Except of course for money.

[Mr. Dent]

Crazy how much bank RDJ is making off these movies. Apparently his Avengers total is in at around $70-80m now that all the numbers are in and he stands to make even more off of IM3. If he's in A2 and A3 then when all is said and done he'll have made, what, over $300m off of these movies? Damn. And that's just RDJ alone.

Yeah, this is why we can't have nice things for too long. This isn't really good news for the fans, that ALL the actors are demanding more money. A3 is definitely going to be the last time we see almost all of them with the exception of Ruffalo and maybe SLJ, since he's cool about this stuff and his role isn't really intensive. This makes me think we'll see a break in Avengers films after A3, similar to the break we're set to see for Iron Man, and they'll explore other properties or team up films in the meantime. Maybe they'll do a Defenders movie, since Hulk and Doctor Strange should both be set up and under contract still.

[DarthSkywalker]

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

Crazy how much bank RDJ is making off these movies. Apparently his Avengers total is in at around $70-80m now that all the numbers are in and he stands to make even more off of IM3. If he's in A2 and A3 then when all is said and done he'll have made, what, over $300m off of these movies? Damn. And that's just RDJ alone.

Yeah, this is why we can't have nice things for too long. This isn't really good news for the fans, that ALL the actors are demanding more money. A3 is definitely going to be the last time we see almost all of them with the exception of Ruffalo and maybe SLJ, since he's cool about this stuff and his role isn't really intensive. This makes me think we'll see a break in Avengers films after A3, similar to the break we're set to see for Iron Man, and they'll explore other properties or team up films in the meantime. Maybe they'll do a Defenders movie, since Hulk and Doctor Strange should both be set up and under contract still.

Oh it could continue, but that is on Marvel. They can pay the actors. But this has been my fear from the start.

The Oscar thing is also just flat out weird and disrespectful to the cast. Disney were willing to pay for it and they still said no? What do they think, if the actors get less exposure it helps them in someway?

[Quasimod0]

Jeez they better pay up. Its more than worth it to keep the same actors

[RaZaTrOn]

If actors are demanding more money beyond what they initially signed for it's just plain greedy on their behalf, it's not like they are being paid a minute amount to start with some make more on one movie than most people will see in a lifetime.

However, I don't believe these stories. It seems that the main team had a great time filming The Avengers and are grateful towards Marvel for giving them the chance to be in something which is undeniably huge. My guess is just tabloids trying to get some buzz for themselves.

[Mr. Dent]

CAA represents an overwhelming majority of the Marvel stars and is trying hard to keep the negotiations out of the public limelight and media headlines. But that may not be possible with some reps blaming the studio for ’scorched earth’ tactics past and present. ”Marvel has created so much animosity by strong-arming and bullying on sequels already. It’s counterproductive,” one source tells me. Says another, “I’m sick of Kevin Feige telling me again and again how Marvel is ‘reinventing the movie business’. It doesn’t work like this. They’re reinventing business, period.” I’ve learned Marvel already has threatened to sue or recast when contracts and/or options are challenged. That prompted a few cast members to respond, “Go ahead.” I hear Hemsworth especially wasn’t anxious to go back into that arduous diet and training regimen and subsist primarily on egg whites for Thor: Dark World which hits theaters November 8th. I also understand that Scarlett Johanssen told castmates she’s “not going to cut her quote” for Marvel’s Avengers 2. The actress as butt-kicking operative Black Widow in The Avengers and Iron Man 2 is wrapping Captain America: The Winter Soldier and has a whopping 8 options total.

Already a lot of brinkmanship played out for Captain America 2 and Thor 2. Calling it the “weirdest experience”, one rep still can’;t believe Marvel offered “only a $500,000 raise and then would pay another $500,000 when the movie hits $500M. Are they out of their minds?” When it was pointed out to Marvel that Hemsworth already had received $5M for his starring role in Snow White And The Huntsman, the studio shot back, ”I don’t know why you’re complaining when Marvel only has hit movies.” To which the response was, “He’s happier working at a place like Universal.”

Wow

[T"Challa]

Break even point was 1.1 bill..jesus..i don't even

[J.Howlett]

This is epic reporting...Wowzer.

[Mr. Dent]

The sad truth is that both Iger and Horn are scared stiff of Perlmutter and want to steer clear of the inevitable nightmare negotiations. Reps predict Ike is “going to create a lot of drama and going to want to prove a point and not look like he’s going to get run over”

I can't believe that senior executives at Disney are that scared of the guy. I'm very confused by how hierarchies work within these companies. Ike is the largest share holder of Disney (now that Steve Jobs is gone) but should Iger technically be his boss?

Either way, the CEO of Marvel sounds like a really horrible guy. I remember this article from BC from a while back:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/08/...-rather-avoid/

Firstly there’s the three black female execs from Disney’s Department Of Consumer Products who lost their jobs in a reorganization headed by Ike. The Financial Times reports;

A battle of loyalties flared in the division, where some senior staff had qualified for bonuses in 2011 because of the unit’s financial performance. Anne Gates, the chief financial officer of DCP, and Jessica Dunne, head of global product licensing, had run-ins with Mr Perlmutter that were observed by other staff.

Ms Gates and Mr Perlmutter clashed over how she compiled financial reports. Mr Perlmutter wanted her to use Marvel’s format for spreadsheets, say two people familiar with the matter. “She got verbally abused,” says a person with knowledge of the encounter.

Ms Dunne later filed a written complaint about Mr Perlmutter regarding a disagreement over an email she sent. Ms Dunne told colleagues she was frightened because Mr Perlmutter, in a rebuke, had allegedly said that he had a “bullet with [her] name on it”, according to several people familiar with the matter.

“Everyone encouraged her to file a complaint because she was genuinely concerned for her safety,” says a former colleague. Ms Dunne declined to comment.

A racial remark allegedly made by Mr Perlmutter to Mr Mooney was also relayed to senior Disney managers, the FT was told by people familiar with the account. Mr Perlmutter is said to have detailed efforts to cut costs at Marvel, including a switch in actors in the sequel to Iron Man.

The first movie featured an African-American actor, Terrence Howard, as Colonel Jim Rhodes. Don Cheadle, another African-American actor, was hired for the same part in the sequel at a cheaper price.

Mr Perlmutter apparently told Mr Mooney the change cut costs. He allegedly added words to the effect that no one would notice because black people “look the same”.

The bullet line is all the more significant, as it is well known that Perlmutter carries a handgun with him. Deadline has reported that;

Sources now tell me that all three female executives in employments disputes with the Walt Disney Co have settled – including one today — many months after the women lost their jobs in a Department Of Consumer Products reorganization set in motion nearly a year ago by Marvel boss Ike Perlmutter who is Disney’s 2nd largest shareholder. Former DCP head of fashion and home products Pam Lifford, former chief financial officer Anne Gates, and former DCP HR exec Susan Cole Hill were all represented by the same attorney with the Pasadena law firm Hadsell, Stormer, Keeny, Richardson and Rennick which has sued Disney in other employee rights cases. According to my sources, the three women who are all African Americans referred to themselves as “The Help” – a reference to last summer’s hit DreamWorks movie distributed by Disney and set during the civil rights movement about black maids in Mississippi.

This kind of reportage is not new. When just working at Marvel, there were a number of reports of Isaac Perlmutter being verbally abusive to certain staff members in a very extreme fashion.

An Israeli army veteran from the Six Day War, Perlmutter has kept his life private. The Forbes photo, which looks like Mark Strong guesting on Mad Men, is the only public one of him available, and according to an LA Times runthough of his life, which neatly avoided the FT allegations, stated “He attended the 2008 “Iron Man” premiere at Grauman’s Chinese Theatre wearing a mustache and wig to avoid being recognized by photographers.”

[DarthSkywalker]

Originally Posted by T"Challa

Break even point was 1.1 bill..jesus..i don't even

Sounds like what happened with HP OoTP.

This article could very well read "how to kill the golden goose".

[J.Howlett]

Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker

Sounds like what happened with HP OoTP.

This article could very well read "how to kill the golden goose".

The best way to phrase this entire article.

[J.Howlett]

After reading both articles, I think it's safe to say that the MCU will NOT last forever.

And people on these forums wonder why we keep harping on just doing trilogies. This is why.

[Mr. Dent]

Originally Posted by J.Howlett

After reading both articles, I think it's safe to say that the MCU will NOT last forever.

And people on these forums wonder why we keep harping on just doing trilogies. This is why.

Uh, not true at all. I don't think they will do another Avengers film for a while after the third (like, 5-6 years) but that doesn't mean they can't do plenty of other movies about other characters or teams. Ruffalo, Smulders, Sebastian Stan, Pratt, Saldana, Bautista, and the actors who sign on to play Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Ant-Man, Wasp, Doctor Strange, and any other superhero film Marvel has coming out in the next few years will all still be on hook for films after Avengers 3.

And how does THR know this:

Avengers 3 has no release date and probably will not hit screens at least until the end of Phase 3, in 2017.

Did they just break news and didn't even know it? I remember reading something about something big being planned for 2017 on Screenrant before but I figured that was mostly conjecture on their part and the executive or whomever they were talking to speaking out of line. If they followed the Phase 2 schedule then that would put the end of phase 3 at 2018, not 2017, and considering THR talks about it as if its fact, maybe they definitively know this?

[Gabe99]

B.A.D.:
April 27, 2012:
Marvel’s Kevin Feige Says Iron Man Is Like James Bond - You Can Change The Actor



io9:
1/22/2009:
Is Marvel Really Trying To Nickel-And-Dime Tony Stark?


11/04/2010:
Is Marvel nickel-and-diming The Avengers to death?


8/06/2010:
Did Marvel really snub Jon Favreau as director of The Avengers?

[metaphysician]

You guys need to stop taking every breathless unsourced behind-the-scenes rumor seriously. Especially when they include babble like "1.1B break even."

[KDM1986]

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

Some interesting articles on the economics of the MCU posted by THR and Deadline today.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hea...ney-jrs-518837
http://www.deadline.com/2013/05/robe...iations-fight/

This is some very interesting stuff. Apparently Joss Whedon's deal with Marvel is worth $100m, RDJ is leading the charge "like a big brother" to get his co-working Avengers paid more, the break even point for The Avengers was $1.1b (wtf lol), and analysts believe Marvel's acquisition of Marvel will have paid for itself in 15 years, far earlier than expected.

I hope this is all a bunch of bull. Cause I can't believe for a second marvel is dumb enough too let all the cast walk and think people will be cool with an entire recast. Also I find it hard to believe that 1.1billion was the break even point for avengers. Hopefully this is just more stupid rumors.

[Mr. Dent]

It's negotiations. THR and Deadline are probably overstating the actual gravity of the situations. Agents and reps make those kinds of threats with studios. As for the $1.1b numbers, that's probably "creative accounting".

[SpocksBrain]

Sounds like Hollywood business as usual. Not sure of what is newsworthy about any of this.

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by SpocksBrain

Sounds like Hollywood business as usual. Not sure of what is newsworthy about any of this.

It's only "news!" because Avengers made 1.5B and has a big online fanbase.

[dsfjr1190]

A part of me wants to say the actors shouldn't have signed 6-film deals for such little money in the first place, the other part of me is annoyed that Marvel's cheapness could bring the MCU crashing to its knees.

[T"Challa]

I honestly hope that 1.1 billion number is false. Because there is something seriously wrong with the system when u need the combined GDP of a few small countries to break even on a movie production.

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by T"Challa

I honestly hope that 1.1 billion number is false. Because there is something seriously wrong with the system when u need the combined GDP of a few small countries to break even on a movie production.

It's Hollywood accounting. It's all ******** and loopholes. Gotta love it

Harry Potter 5 lost WB $167M
http://www.slashfilm.com/insane-stud...f-the-phoenix/

[jmc]

Originally Posted by T"Challa

Break even point was 1.1 bill..jesus..i don't even

You'd be surprised in spite of much money some films make at the box office how hard it is for them to turn profit.

[Mr. Dent]

Studios make most of their money off of merchandising and home media sales these days anyway.