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Old 01-22-2013, 04:27 AM   #151
moviedoors
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Default Re: Voluntaryism

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When you break it down that way, Voluntaryism looks horrendous.

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Old 01-22-2013, 07:50 AM   #152
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When you break it down that way, Voluntaryism looks horrendous.
Really, I thought it was a horrible idea until I saw those circles.

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Old 01-22-2013, 07:53 AM   #153
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Well the native American tribes were not perfect, but they generally didn't have a concept of "owning land" the way Europeans did. Also in the 1600s I think I would prefer being in a Native tribe then being exploited in Europe by the crown and the Church.

My point is if I were to become a radical, I would go all the way. Anrcho capitalism just seems like a half measure, get rid of the public hierarchies, but keep the private ones. Left Wing anarchists want to get rid of both. Again I don't believe in Anarchism, I am more believer in Hobbs then Rousseau, but hey, if you going to go radical I would prefer to go all the way then some half measure.
On paper the left wing philosophies require no hierarchies, but ultimately they still form when you create a power vacuum. That's the other thing about tribes, many still had hierarchies and many still had the low men on the totem pole, pun intended. I understand what you are saying though.

I'm rather partial to Native Americans myself, as evidenced by all the Kachina Dolls I have.

I get a little irked when people say "Natives were like this..." because all in all, the tribes were pretty diverse in thought.

The real sad thing for the Natives is many wished to participate in western culture and were simply never given that option. They were seen a sort of novelties, and it was very common for white people to dress/act like stereotypes of Indians, and this was considered "fashionable" or "cool". A lot like mimicking 50 Cent or other rappers like we do today.


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Old 01-22-2013, 08:16 AM   #154
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Default Re: Voluntaryism

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What makes Anarcho Capitalism better then anarcho-syndicalism? If we are going for high ideals, doesn't anarcho-syndicalism promote a radical form of anarchism, because they would get rid of both private and public institutions? Why should private hierarchies survive, if the public ones are done away with?

Noam Chomksy is one of the most left wing guys around and he is a anarchist, what makes your anarchism better then his?

There have been societies without the concept of private property. The Native American tribes had no concept of private property, were they unhappy before the Europeans came and took everything from them?

Left wing anarchists would say that the hunting and gathering societies before modern civilization had no concept of private property and that private property was concept imposed on humanity, so they would say they don't have to take away people's property, because after an anarchist revolution the concept of private property would be meaningless because humanity would return to a more innocent time before that concept existed.

I am not anarchist in any way, but if I wanted to become a radical, left anarchism seems more appealing then right wing anarchism, because it seems like left anarchism gets rid of more hierarchies then right wing anarchism.
"Private Hierarchies" could and would still exist because it is voluntary, "Public Hierarchies" are forced onto people that don't consent to it, even if the "majority" does.

I would say that AnCap is better because it recognizes Property Rights as fundamental to humanity. You acquire property through voluntary actions, it is a result of use of your life and liberty. Unjustly acquire property would be property attained through the involuntary cost of another persons life and liberty. Theft or threat.

In a Free Society, you could, if you decide, live within a communal arrangement where you and your "friends" live without recognizing property rights, but that would be voluntary. AnCap or Voluntaryism wouldn't force it's philosophy on you, but other types of "Anarchy" would.

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Old 01-22-2013, 08:18 AM   #155
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Really, I thought it was a horrible idea until I saw those circles.
Can you expand your thoughts on this?

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Old 01-22-2013, 08:28 AM   #156
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Can you expand your thoughts on this?
Yes. It was sarcasm.

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Old 01-23-2013, 01:10 PM   #157
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:49 AM   #158
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