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Old 01-17-2013, 06:21 PM   #26
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

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Originally Posted by xeno000 View Post
Doom isn't actually a Communist allegory, IMO. He is a fascist dictator who surrounds himself with the trappings of European monarchy, in part to assert his legitimacy as a ruler. Communism, in contrast, is a distinctly anti-monarchical movement. Doom is an authoritarian ruler who does not allow the people of Latveria even the illusion of participating in governance, whereas Communist regimes do so by staging elections in which only one party runs. His is absolute rule, with a thin veneer of paternalistic concern for his oppressed subjects. There is no communal ownership of property and equitable distribution of wealth in Latveria. Doom alone makes the laws of that society and owns the land, the resources and even the lives of its citizens.


If Doom ever stooped to creating propaganda, its goal would be to make him look like the benevolent ruler of a peaceful and prosperous land. He desires legitimacy in the eyes of the international community only because that would further his goal of world domination. Doom might hire documentary filmmakers to produce a hagiographic account of his life and rise to power, but never some ridiculous musical piece extolling his (or Latveria's) virtues. Many things are beneath Doom; acting like Borat would be high on the list.
Right, people shouldnt mistake Communism as a synonym for Dictatorship. And, in fact, the two don't tend to coexist very harmoniously. Communist regimes "have" staged elections in the way you described, but that does not mean they must or even that they should to be prosperous (if its even possible).

There are many, many, MANY Marvel villains that could be considered Communist allegories (more specifically, Red Scare allegories), but Doom would definitely fall under a different category.

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I'm sort of new to Doctor Doom. So my question is are his people happy under his rule? I know he is a dictator and if I'm not mistaken he has an embassy in New York. I have been doing a lot of research on Doom recently due to the fact my friend says anyone short of Reed Richards is sorely outgunned in terms of intellect. He says people like Tony Stark , Banner, Hank Pymm and others are not quite Dooms equal in terms of overall smarts. Is he right?
See above. Doom is respected by many, feared by all. I would say his people are submissive, some possibly even content, but I highly doubt they are happy.

I think Reed is indeed his equal intellectually. Probably not tactically or politically and definitely not as physically powerful. Pym/Banner/Stark arent as intelligent as Reed or Doom.

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Old 01-18-2013, 03:17 AM   #27
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

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Right, people shouldnt mistake Communism as a synonym for Dictatorship. And, in fact, the two don't tend to coexist very harmoniously. Communist regimes "have" staged elections in the way you described, but that does not mean they must or even that they should to be prosperous (if its even possible).
.
Come now. Read Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's original run. It's fairly obvious Doom is a cold war metaphor for Eastern bloc dictators (who were Communist).

Of course, it's not a big deal either way. As long as they show him as a dictator and an arrogant power hungry nut, that's what's important.

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Old 01-18-2013, 08:23 AM   #28
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

There are so many money shots they could have for Doom:

I always pictured a great scene of him standing atop the castle turrets and looking over Doomstadt (for those who don't know, the capital of Latveria), and seeing his citizens going about their "ordinary" lives, and directly below, his robot army marching, knowing that if the citizens or robots mess up, it could cost them their lives...

The other would be a great shot of him invading the United Nations, demanding the immediate surrender of the planet to him...

I think shots like this would probably have me die in my seat lol

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Old 01-18-2013, 01:13 PM   #29
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

A shot of him marching down the main aisle towards the pulpit of the U.N. while the diplomats sit frozen in their seats would be amazing.

I LOVE Doom, probably my favorite Marvel character. I trust that if the character is used in this first new film that Trank will do him justice. Another thing I'd love is for Latveria to actually be peaceful and prosperous, which lends to Doom's absolute belief that he should rule the world. The citizens love their King and are loyal to an almost terrifying degree. The scene in the beginning of Dark Knight Rises (don't take my head, off there's a point here) where Bane tells his accolyte to remain in the crashing plane and he does so with a smile; that's the kind of relationship Doom should have with his people.

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Old 01-18-2013, 05:54 PM   #30
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

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A shot of him marching down the main aisle towards the pulpit of the U.N. while the diplomats sit frozen in their seats would be amazing.

I LOVE Doom, probably my favorite Marvel character. I trust that if the character is used in this first new film that Trank will do him justice. Another thing I'd love is for Latveria to actually be peaceful and prosperous, which lends to Doom's absolute belief that he should rule the world. The citizens love their King and are loyal to an almost terrifying degree. The scene in the beginning of Dark Knight Rises (don't take my head, off there's a point here) where Bane tells his accolyte to remain in the crashing plane and he does so with a smile; that's the kind of relationship Doom should have with his people.
Definitely a viable option. Though peaceful/prosperous/loyal with an iron fist. Like modern day China. Little contact with the outside world, as if they don't know there may be greener pastures. And not allowed to find out for themselves. Free from freedom.

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Old 01-18-2013, 07:18 PM   #31
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

Doom is my favorite comic villain & my second favorite villain out of anything (after Darth Vader). I pray to god that they finally get him right.

The might of Doom must be known to the world!

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Old 01-18-2013, 07:53 PM   #32
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

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Doom is my favorite comic villain & my second favorite villain out of anything (after Darth Vader). I pray to god that they finally get him right.

The might of Doom must be known to the world!
I think this is probably a really common opinion. Dr. Doom is a phenomenal villain. Not in a sympathetic way like a lot of common faves (Magneto, Vader, etc.) not in an all powerful way like Galactus, Darkseid or Thanos. He is just evil in a simple, scary and straightforward way. Joker is chaotic evil incarnate but he's a loose cannon, he doesn't care if he wins or loses.

Dr. Doom expects success, and will tolerate nothing less. Fantastic villain. I often find myself wishing him success over the Fantastic Four. Who are just TOO good, TOO famous, TOO "perfect."

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Old 01-20-2013, 03:57 PM   #33
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

Hopefully we will see Doom's victory on the big screen someday. I'd kill for an Emperor Doom movie one day.

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Old 01-20-2013, 11:00 PM   #34
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

I cannot wait to see doom in a trailer for this film. Done right, he should look really epic.

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Old 01-20-2013, 11:17 PM   #35
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

I think he looked great in the past two FF films, its just the actor under that epic costume was the problem...

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Old 01-21-2013, 07:18 AM   #36
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

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I think he looked great in the past two FF films, its just the actor under that epic costume was the problem...
Well no. His woodcutter outfit in the first movie looked terrible. He had none of the majesty of Doom and he was mostly a metallic-skinned businessman who wore a mask than someone in actual armour. His FF2 appearance was better but still not right. I don't think either were in any way epic.

And Julian McMahon was terrible in the role. Completely unsuitable for the part.

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Old 01-21-2013, 08:45 AM   #37
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

The only time in 2 movies that it felt like it was Doom was when he gained the cosmic power of the Surfer as he stood on the board and extended his arms...the camera did that cool trick of pulling back and showing us his newfound power...until he opened his mouth and killed any momentum...McMahon simply didn't sound the least bit intimidating behind that mask...instead of something epic like "At last, Doom is now supreme...let the world beware of my power!"...we get...NICE!

*Shudders*

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Old 01-21-2013, 10:08 AM   #38
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

i know it's cliche but mark strong lol

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Old 01-23-2013, 07:12 PM   #39
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

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Originally Posted by Dark Raven View Post
Well no. His woodcutter outfit in the first movie looked terrible. He had none of the majesty of Doom and he was mostly a metallic-skinned businessman who wore a mask than someone in actual armour. His FF2 appearance was better but still not right. I don't think either were in any way epic.

And Julian McMahon was terrible in the role. Completely unsuitable for the part.
If you go to SpectralMotion.com they have some nice photos of the Doom costume they made for FF2 [without cape] before Fox made them change it to what we have in the movie. It was a step in the right direction.

If I knew how to post photos I would try to do so...


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Old 01-23-2013, 07:25 PM   #40
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

http://www.spectralmotion.com/sm-sub...m1015_1006.png

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Old 01-23-2013, 09:54 PM   #41
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

Yuck. This is how Doom should look, no exceptions.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

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Old 01-23-2013, 10:08 PM   #42
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

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Well no. His woodcutter outfit in the first movie looked terrible. He had none of the majesty of Doom and he was mostly a metallic-skinned businessman who wore a mask than someone in actual armour. His FF2 appearance was better but still not right. I don't think either were in any way epic.

And Julian McMahon was terrible in the role. Completely unsuitable for the part.
Its been a while since I saw the films but I thought the costume was better than everything else in the film.

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Old 01-24-2013, 05:22 PM   #43
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

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Yuck. This is how Doom should look, no exceptions.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
You missed the "without cape" part. Take that concept design, and add the green cape/cloak type setup, and you basically have a really good Doom appearance.

( which would then have been totally wasted on a crap movie, but, well. . . )

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Old 01-24-2013, 11:29 PM   #44
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

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You missed the "without cape" part. Take that concept design, and add the green cape/cloak type setup, and you basically have a really good Doom appearance.

( which would then have been totally wasted on a crap movie, but, well. . . )
Thanks meta for pointing out that "without a cape" part...

The funny thing is that this stuff is not created in a vacuum. Fox approved the design for this Doom, approved the full size sculpture, and approved it at this finished state [even going as far as to say it was perfect and not to change a thing]. THEN, when it gets to set in Canada they suddenly do not like it and want a variety of eleventh hour changes including loosing the armor on the upper legs - replaced with leather pants; and loosing the armor on the upper arm - and using the rubber arms underneath.

Odd choice considering the story point of the armor in FF2 was a suit to contain the Power Cosmic!

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Old 01-25-2013, 04:13 AM   #45
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

I didn't have a problem with how Doom looked. I think the bigger issue was how he was portrayed and used in the previous two FF movies. He needs to be a egomaniac European dictator not some slick corporate tycoon.

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Old 01-25-2013, 11:55 AM   #46
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

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I didn't have a problem with how Doom looked. I think the bigger issue was how he was portrayed and used in the previous two FF movies. He needs to be a egomaniac European dictator not some slick corporate tycoon.
I totally agree, some of his lines in the movie were just cringe worthy....and his origin in the 1st movie as a business man, bad.....bad.....bad.

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Old 01-25-2013, 04:01 PM   #47
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

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I didn't have a problem with how Doom looked. I think the bigger issue was how he was portrayed and used in the previous two FF movies. He needs to be a egomaniac European dictator not some slick corporate tycoon.
No argument there but you do have to admit that he looked much better in FF2 than the first one, and the photo linked above is better than what we got in FF2...

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Old 01-25-2013, 05:30 PM   #48
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

Rufus Sewell for Doom!!!

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Old 01-25-2013, 06:15 PM   #49
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

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No argument there but you do have to admit that he looked much better in FF2 than the first one, and the photo linked above is better than what we got in FF2...
And then he uttered the words...."Let's go for a spin..." *shakes head*

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Old 01-30-2013, 08:05 AM   #50
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Default Re: "I am Doom...What Gods Dare Stand Against Me"---The official Dr. Doom Thread

I remember the days when people argued in all seriousness that a dictator of a foreign country was unsuitable for film and a businessman was the way to go.

We've come so far since then.

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