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Old 05-18-2013, 09:46 PM   #701
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Default Re: "Flame On!" The Human Torch Thread

Like jessica alba and chris evans looked anything like actual siblings?

There are many blended or mixed-background families these days either from adoption or from different marriages etc. It's not some weird thing that would really shock an audience.

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Old 05-18-2013, 09:47 PM   #702
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Default Re: "Flame On!" The Human Torch Thread

Jessica and Evans both easily pass as the same race in those movies.

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Old 05-18-2013, 09:49 PM   #703
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Default Re: "Flame On!" The Human Torch Thread

Same race or not they didn't really look anything like actual siblings. Regardless my 2nd point stands in either case.

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Old 05-18-2013, 09:53 PM   #704
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Default Re: "Flame On!" The Human Torch Thread

Many siblings don't look share similar features, the main point is you could easily believe they had the same parents. Do you really think you could cast Michael B Jordan as Johnny and Charlize Theorn as Sue and say they have the same mother and father?

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Old 05-18-2013, 09:57 PM   #705
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Default Re: "Flame On!" The Human Torch Thread

My point is you don't necessarily have to say anything one way or an other. They could easily have the same mother and father (perhaps not biologically), but unless you want a specific scene where for some reason the audience is told that the audience can draw their own conclusions quite easily.

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Old 05-18-2013, 10:11 PM   #706
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This is another problem.If you make Johnny black and Sue white,you either have to rewrite the story to explain the situation,or you leave the audience with the world's biggest head scratcher.

Nothing like telling an audience "figure it out for yourself" for exceptional storytelling.

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Old 05-18-2013, 10:13 PM   #707
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Default Re: "Flame On!" The Human Torch Thread

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My point is you don't necessarily have to say anything one way or an other. They could easily have the same mother and father (perhaps not biologically), but unless you want a specific scene where for some reason the audience is told that the audience can draw their own conclusions quite easily.
So you just let them have the last name and hope people realize they are siblings? You don't think they would questions a little? Like...... were they adopted, was one adopted, are they from a biracial marriage? some kind of question? I think they would, any person would. It would be weird to just not say anything.

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Old 05-18-2013, 10:16 PM   #708
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My point is you don't necessarily have to say anything one way or an other. They could easily have the same mother and father (perhaps not biologically), but unless you want a specific scene where for some reason the audience is told that the audience can draw their own conclusions quite easily.
I think you do have to say, developing characters and their relationships is part of ivnesting in these types of movies, the F4 are all about being a family, so to not cover the back story on Sue and Johnny if they are different races would be lousy storytelling.

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Old 05-18-2013, 10:17 PM   #709
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This is another problem.If you make Johnny black and Sue white,you either have to rewrite the story to explain the situation,or you leave the audience with the world's biggest head scratcher.

Nothing like telling an audience "figure it out for yourself" for exceptional storytelling.
Am i the only person who's ever seen a family where maybe one or two members of the family members appeared to be of a different race and not thinking that was the biggest mystery on earth for how this came to be?

My point of letting the audience figure it out themselves has nothing to do with it being a mystery but the opposite i.e there are a lot of blended-families these days and it's not shocking to encounter a family made up of different looking races.

If they would want to explain it they can but it's not a requisite.

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Old 05-18-2013, 10:20 PM   #710
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Default Re: "Flame On!" The Human Torch Thread

You know there are biracial kids who can pass for white while a sibling looks more darker. Then there are white kids born to two white parents who have black skin.

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Old 05-18-2013, 10:20 PM   #711
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I guess what I mean is how awkward it would come across.If the film comes across saying "well,we don't really need to address this"it's going to feel very forced.

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Old 05-18-2013, 10:21 PM   #712
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Am i the only person who's ever seen a family where maybe one or two members of the family members appeared to be of a different race and not thinking that was the biggest mystery on earth for how this came to be?

My point of letting the audience figure it out themselves has nothing to do with it being a mystery but the opposite i.e there are a lot of blended-families these days and it's not shocking to encounter a family made up of different looking races.

If they would want to explain it they can but it's not a requisite.
Really it depends on the story line, if that is a part of the story line then of course it needs to be discussed. For instance, if its a story line like I stated earlier in the thread....

Something that happened long ago maybe have Alicia and Johnny as biological siblings that were separated, one adopted by Puppet Master and one adopted by the Storms...then make that an underlying story line of the movie. I would see no problem with that, great drama.

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Old 05-18-2013, 10:25 PM   #713
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Trouble is,you address it,then you rewrite the story and have fans even more up in arms.

It's a no-win scenario.

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Old 05-18-2013, 10:31 PM   #714
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Only if their background is a major part of the story line. Their parents were barely mentioned in the first two movies. The major thing would be they are still siblings. I can understand both sides...those that do not want any kind of changes to the art or story of the comics, and those that don't have a problem with it.

If this young man is the BEST actor choice, then I'll give him a chance...if he isn't, then I will have to agree with those that see it as a change for sake of change, which is a problem for me.

But I see the desire to not change the visual of the comics, far more than I do the story. Basically they would still be siblings which is the story in the comics, very little I think will be talked about as far as their parents, much the same way that it wasn't mentioned in the first two. Visual, I can see your point, changing of the "back story" not a big deal for me. Because I'm very doubtful we are going to get an actress, with her little brother as stowaways on a space ship with Ben and Reed, going into Space and fighting the Communists. Those things in the story will be changed I'm sure...mainly by going with the UFF story line.

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Old 05-18-2013, 10:34 PM   #715
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Default Re: "Flame On!" The Human Torch Thread

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Am i the only person who's ever seen a family where maybe one or two members of the family members appeared to be of a different race and not thinking that was the biggest mystery on earth for how this came to be?

My point of letting the audience figure it out themselves has nothing to do with it being a mystery but the opposite i.e there are a lot of blended-families these days and it's not shocking to encounter a family made up of different looking races.

If they would want to explain it they can but it's not a requisite.
There is a big difference between our thoughts when we pass strangers in a street and the structure of cinematic storytelling.

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Old 05-18-2013, 10:50 PM   #716
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Default Re: "Flame On!" The Human Torch Thread

In regards to translating comic characters to the big screen, i initially had no beef with race changes early on in the genre (Spawn, Daredevil) however, as time goes on and more and more of my childhood makes it to celluloid, i find myself wanting said translations to be as accurate as possible, and that includes visually.

So no, i'm not up for an african american portraying Johnny Storm any more than i am for a caucasian potraying Falcon, Luke Cage, or Blade. I want to see them all as they were first introduced to me.

Just my two cents.

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Old 05-18-2013, 11:00 PM   #717
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Default Re: "Flame On!" The Human Torch Thread

Who was changed in Spawn?

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Old 05-18-2013, 11:29 PM   #718
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Default Re: "Flame On!" The Human Torch Thread

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There is a big difference between our thoughts when we pass strangers in a street and the structure of cinematic storytelling.
Not really.

If you can easily buy that a clearly latina woman like Jessica Alba (because she so did not look even remotely close to white in those movies) is the clearly white Chris Evans sister and not one person questions how they might be adopted, standard family, etc.

Then say Allison Williams and Michael B. Jordan get cast. What's the difference?

Mixed families, adoptive families, and foster families are so common place now that often the adjective is just dropped all together.

If Sue introduces Johnny as her brother and he's a different skin tone than her the audience who clearly apparently never goes outside of their home in some people's line of thinking aren't gonna go ''HOLY HELL WHAT?!" and spend the rest of the film going ''HOW? THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE."

Because it's not. It's 2013. Family is just family now.

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Old 05-18-2013, 11:54 PM   #719
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Not really.

If you can easily buy that a clearly latina woman like Jessica Alba (because she so did not look even remotely close to white in those movies) is the clearly white Chris Evans sister and not one person questions how they might be adopted, standard family, etc.

Then say Allison Williams and Michael B. Jordan get cast. What's the difference?

Mixed families, adoptive families, and foster families are so common place now that often the adjective is just dropped all together.

If Sue introduces Johnny as her brother and he's a different skin tone than her the audience who clearly apparently never goes outside of their home in some people's line of thinking aren't gonna go ''HOLY HELL WHAT?!" and spend the rest of the film going ''HOW? THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE."

Because it's not. It's 2013. Family is just family now.
They shouldn't be emulating any of the decisions from F4 and F4:RotSS. They were terrible movies, with hit or miss casting (mostly miss), and even Fox realizes that they should move on entirely from them.

So if anyone had trouble believing Alba and Evans were brother/sister, I say find a talented actor and actress that look even more similar than them. Not less.

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Old 05-19-2013, 12:08 AM   #720
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Not really.

If you can easily buy that a clearly latina woman like Jessica Alba (because she so did not look even remotely close to white in those movies) is the clearly white Chris Evans sister and not one person questions how they might be adopted, standard family, etc.

Then say Allison Williams and Michael B. Jordan get cast. What's the difference?

Mixed families, adoptive families, and foster families are so common place now that often the adjective is just dropped all together.

If Sue introduces Johnny as her brother and he's a different skin tone than her the audience who clearly apparently never goes outside of their home in some people's line of thinking aren't gonna go ''HOLY HELL WHAT?!" and spend the rest of the film going ''HOW? THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE."

Because it's not. It's 2013. Family is just family now.
Jessica Alba easily passed for white in the F4 films and the combo you suggest in this post would clearly look like a black guy and white woman.

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Old 05-19-2013, 12:19 AM   #721
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Default Re: "Flame On!" The Human Torch Thread

No she looks hispanic its more than skin color that makes people white. When I look in her face I always see someone of color her bone structure makes her look like something other than white. It wouldn't matter if she was pale or not her face is of someone with color

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Old 05-19-2013, 12:22 AM   #722
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^i agree i am spanish and alba did not and can not pass as white she is clearly a latina

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Old 05-19-2013, 12:26 AM   #723
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If alba 's dad were white and not her mom according to most legal documents she would be white you go by the fathers ethnicity. Her skin color is from her mom not her dad...when you see them all together it is very obvious. In the 2nd movie it was bad makeup and wig that screwed up her look not her natural skin color. In the first movie she looked fine. She is over 80% European probably the same if not more than most white people on this board. I have more native American in me than she does...and I'm white. If people want to debate her portrayal then fine but the problem with her look was the makeup and hair e
people not her natural look. I guess some need to read some of the newer f4 comics or the 'm f4.

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Old 05-19-2013, 12:49 AM   #724
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Default Re: "Flame On!" The Human Torch Thread

I really had no problem with any of the portrayals of any of the actors from the previous F4 movies. I thought the biggest problem with the last F4 was just a terrible take on the biggest villains of F4 lore. However I thought the family dynamic between the four was fine it was what I'd expect except for the Reed dance routine.

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Old 05-19-2013, 01:24 AM   #725
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Y'know, I am really getting tired of this "It's 2013 now" nonsense. That is not an answer to the questions being asked here, people. You are simply telling people what year is on the current calendar. Let's look at a different example here:

"Why hello there, sir, would you like a stick of this tasty Big Red chewing gum?"
"It's 2013 now!"
"Um... about that chewing gum..."

Stating the year doesn't serve as an answer to every question. Sure, that chewing gum example might seem odd, but look at it this way. That ridiculous response of "It's 2013 now" does not answer that question. It doesn't even make anything resembling sense. If people are discussing the fact that an adaptation of a comic with a family theme would logically discuss the family bonds between characters, therefore making a change in the racial makeup of the family something that, again would only be natural to actually bring up in any decent story about family, you cannot say "It's 2013" as a response. Not a response that makes any sense anyway. If anything, trying to handwave things like that is exactly why this type of casting could be terrible. If the politically correct way to address this sort of change is to go so far as to not acknowledge it at all in a story adapted from a series that is part of a universe that has frequently touched on a wide variety of social topics, this so-called politically correct take sucks. Handwaving the relationship is disingenuous. Having a mixed family and making a good story about that is one thing. Having a mixed family and suggesting that Marvel's First Family shouldn't even acknowledge that in their story is crazy. I can absolutely see the argument to make a change. I can't agree with making a change and refusing to actually develop an interesting story with that, though.

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