The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > General Movies > Marvel Films

View Poll Results: What thematic style should the Dr. Strange take?
Sci-Fi/Action 5 7.69%
Horror/Suspense 17 26.15%
Fantasy 36 55.38%
Other 7 10.77%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-13-2013, 11:44 AM   #126
marcvader
Lurker #1
 
marcvader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: The MIA
Posts: 10,210
Default Re: What "style" should the Dr. Strange movie be?

Remember guys he's a scientist.

__________________
* * *CAPTAIN AMERICA* * *
******THE WINTER SOLDIER******
__________________#1 CBM of 2014____________________
Twitter- @mrpink13
GO PHINS
HAIL HYDRA!
marcvader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 12:29 PM   #127
Spider - Man
Banned User
 
Spider - Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,472
Default Re: What "style" should the Dr. Strange movie be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcvader View Post
Remember guys he's a scientist.
Just not a master of the mystic arts.

Spider - Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 03:19 PM   #128
metaphysician
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,825
Default Re: What "style" should the Dr. Strange movie be?

Okay, you get the rant:

Science is not "uses a physical tool powered by electricity." Science is "the study of the world around you, by actually testing to see what the world around you does." Nothing about hand-waving magic casting places it outside the boundaries of scientific understand. All it is, is another field of phenomena that doesn't have a current good scientific understanding. . . which puts it on par with a lot of other non "magical" stuff.

So basically, when you say "I don't want any science in my magic!", you are babbling complete and utter nonsense. Unless your particular type of magic is completely random and unpredictable, or undetectable to the point of nonexistence, then it *is* subject to scientific inquiry and understanding. Even if it hasn't actually been discovered by anybody inclined to subject it to scientific inquiry yet.

metaphysician is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 03:31 PM   #129
marcvader
Lurker #1
 
marcvader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: The MIA
Posts: 10,210
Default Re: What "style" should the Dr. Strange movie be?

Nooo, no more rants please. Leave me to my magical rune stones and amulets.

__________________
* * *CAPTAIN AMERICA* * *
******THE WINTER SOLDIER******
__________________#1 CBM of 2014____________________
Twitter- @mrpink13
GO PHINS
HAIL HYDRA!
marcvader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 03:35 PM   #130
Lord
All Mighty
 
Lord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 13,108
Default Re: What "style" should the Dr. Strange movie be?

Even magic in these stories has rules, and a system for how they work. I don't think we need to have details about them, but they should in least make the system make sence, not pull a different mcguffin spell every time there is trouble or show that being a master magicians is easier than it should be

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by childeroland View Post
Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
~*SHH SIX*~
Lord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 03:39 PM   #131
Keyser Soze
AW YEEEAH!
 
Keyser Soze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 20,232
Default Re: What "style" should the Dr. Strange movie be?

I think the tone for Doctor Strange will be a tricky one to strike just right, as when I've thought of the world of Doctor Strange as depicted in the comics, at least the original Lee/Ditko ones, my mind instantly jumps to classic Hammer Horror, in particular the likes of The Devil Rides Out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCZnuo1vuWU

A rare heroic role for Christopher Lee in that film, makes me think late 1960s era Lee would have been the ultimate Doctor Strange. Of course, by modern standards Hammer Horror is considered campy, so I don't think it would really convey to screen properly.

__________________
Check out my comic, THE STANDARD!

And check out my new comic, AND THEN EMILY WAS GONE!

And listen to my slick Scottish voice on The Off-Panel Podcast!
Keyser Soze is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 05:09 PM   #132
Spider - Man
Banned User
 
Spider - Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,472
Default Re: What "style" should the Dr. Strange movie be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by metaphysician View Post
Okay, you get the rant:

Science is not "uses a physical tool powered by electricity." Science is "the study of the world around you, by actually testing to see what the world around you does." Nothing about hand-waving magic casting places it outside the boundaries of scientific understand. All it is, is another field of phenomena that doesn't have a current good scientific understanding. . . which puts it on par with a lot of other non "magical" stuff.

So basically, when you say "I don't want any science in my magic!", you are babbling complete and utter nonsense. Unless your particular type of magic is completely random and unpredictable, or undetectable to the point of nonexistence, then it *is* subject to scientific inquiry and understanding. Even if it hasn't actually been discovered by anybody inclined to subject it to scientific inquiry yet.
First, I can't tell if you are actually arguing for science and magic to be one and the same in the real world as magic doesn't actually exist. I'm talking strictly in the fantasy world of comic books and comic book movies. Sure you can try to explain something that is perceived as magic as science ala the Bifrost in Thor. But why would you want to in a Dr. Strange movie? What's the fun in that? Did you read the comics going 'I just gotta figure out a scientific explanation for how Strange entered that girl's dream and fought with the demon Nightmare who was visiting her mind'?

As I said you could just as easily tack a world-class magician's sleight of hand explanation for stuff that Strange does but who wants a hocus-pocus abra-kadabra stage-magician version of Strange. I want Strange summoning the Power of the Vashanti.

Tell you what, if "Nothing about hand-waving magic casting places it outside the boundaries of scientific understand(ing)", give me a scientific hypothesis for how Strange can utter an incantation and summon the Crimson Bands of Cytorak (sp?) or of how his cloak of levitation works.

Spider - Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 05:39 PM   #133
Whiskey Tango
#N7DAY14
 
Whiskey Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The South
Posts: 20,633
Default Re: What "style" should the Dr. Strange movie be?

I like how puffed up and self-important he acts while nobody is actually saying the things he seems to want to think they're saying.

__________________
Our life in this world...
to what shall I compare it?
It is like an echo
resounding through the mountains
and off into the empty sky.
- Ryōkan

2007-2008 SHH Pro Football Pick 'Em Champion
Whiskey Tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 10:20 PM   #134
seahammer
Asgardian
 
seahammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Navigating the Sea of Space
Posts: 1,585
Default Re: What "style" should the Dr. Strange movie be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by metaphysician View Post
Okay, you get the rant:

Science is not "uses a physical tool powered by electricity." Science is "the study of the world around you, by actually testing to see what the world around you does." Nothing about hand-waving magic casting places it outside the boundaries of scientific understand. All it is, is another field of phenomena that doesn't have a current good scientific understanding. . . which puts it on par with a lot of other non "magical" stuff.

So basically, when you say "I don't want any science in my magic!", you are babbling complete and utter nonsense. Unless your particular type of magic is completely random and unpredictable, or undetectable to the point of nonexistence, then it *is* subject to scientific inquiry and understanding. Even if it hasn't actually been discovered by anybody inclined to subject it to scientific inquiry yet.
I'm going to hate myself for getting involved in what is essentially an argument in semantics, but I, sir, am no babbler of nonsense (complete, utter, or otherwise).

Magic is, by definition, something supernatural (more than natural) and beyond scientific understanding. That doesn't mean that there isn't a method or technique or art to it. It does mean that the method is not a scientific one. It is something that can bend or defy physical laws, sometimes diametrically.

seahammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 10:22 PM   #135
seahammer
Asgardian
 
seahammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Navigating the Sea of Space
Posts: 1,585
Default Re: What "style" should the Dr. Strange movie be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskey Tango View Post
I like how puffed up and self-important he acts while nobody is actually saying the things he seems to want to think they're saying.
Tell me if I fall into the same trap!

seahammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 11:05 PM   #136
metaphysician
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,825
Default Re: What "style" should the Dr. Strange movie be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by seahammer View Post
I'm going to hate myself for getting involved in what is essentially an argument in semantics, but I, sir, am no babbler of nonsense (complete, utter, or otherwise).

Magic is, by definition, something supernatural (more than natural) and beyond scientific understanding. That doesn't mean that there isn't a method or technique or art to it. It does mean that the method is not a scientific one. It is something that can bend or defy physical laws, sometimes diametrically.
The problem is that this is, itself, contradictory. If your altering physical law, that's still a phenomenon that can be observed, measured, and quantified. That means its subject to science. There is no "beyond scientific understanding." There is only "beyond current scientific knowledge", which is always changing itself. And all it takes for science to begin understanding something is "is a detectable phenomenon."

Which is why trying to define "magic" as "that which is impossible for science to understand" is a useless definition. Something impossible for science to understand is something impossible for *humanity* to understand, because all science is, is organized human understanding.

metaphysician is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 11:58 PM   #137
Whiskey Tango
#N7DAY14
 
Whiskey Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The South
Posts: 20,633
Default Re: What "style" should the Dr. Strange movie be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by seahammer View Post
Tell me if I fall into the same trap!
No you're fine, you aren't pushing some weird, meaningless agenda.

__________________
Our life in this world...
to what shall I compare it?
It is like an echo
resounding through the mountains
and off into the empty sky.
- Ryōkan

2007-2008 SHH Pro Football Pick 'Em Champion
Whiskey Tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 12:58 AM   #138
Farren
Side Kicker
 
Farren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Under Harvey Dent's Desk
Posts: 2,663
Default Re: What "style" should the Dr. Strange movie be?

I think all our metaphysician friend is arguing is that even magic can be categorized as following some form of a scientific method. (If I make the right hand signs while summoning the Bands of Cyttorak, red bands of energy spring forth -- knowing that will always happen means that there is some sort of "physical" "rules" at work).

I just don't think anyone was really claiming that wasn't the case to begin with. This debate is literally over semantics.

__________________
C2: Cyclops Fans - United (2006)
I Believe in Aaron Eckhart
Farren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 05:14 AM   #139
Keyser Soze
AW YEEEAH!
 
Keyser Soze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 20,232
Default Re: What "style" should the Dr. Strange movie be?

I'll leave it to our friend Neil Gaiman to define the difference between science and magic:

Science is a way of talking about the universe in words that bind it to a common reality. Magic is a method of talking to the universe in words that it cannot ignore. The two are rarely compatible.

__________________
Check out my comic, THE STANDARD!

And check out my new comic, AND THEN EMILY WAS GONE!

And listen to my slick Scottish voice on The Off-Panel Podcast!
Keyser Soze is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 07:19 AM   #140
Spider - Man
Banned User
 
Spider - Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,472
Default Re: What "style" should the Dr. Strange movie be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
I'll leave it to our friend Neil Gaiman to define the difference between science and magic:

Science is a way of talking about the universe in words that bind it to a common reality. Magic is a method of talking to the universe in words that it cannot ignore. The two are rarely compatible.
Feh, Gaiman's just a complete nonsense babbler!

What is so hilarious is he (metaphyz) is arguing for the compatibility betwen something that exists (science) and something that does not (magic). In Harry Potter do we really want to believe that his cloak of invisibility is actually sewn with thousands of nano-sized cameras and projectors as the real-world version is or would we rather accept that it operates on some supernatural level that is beyond the ability of science to explain?

Phyz argues that nothing is beyond scientific understanding though the very fact that you can't understand something scientifically (because, you know, it isn't real) by default puts it "beyond scientific understanding".

If we are to accept that Farren's reasoning for what Phyz is saying is true, all it would take is one instance of the Vishanti ignoring Strange's request for help to invalidate it and one being choosing to deny another's request happens every day. I asked my father for money when I was a kid. Sometimes he said yes, sometimes he said no. No scientific understanding necessary.

Spider - Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 07:56 AM   #141
seahammer
Asgardian
 
seahammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Navigating the Sea of Space
Posts: 1,585
Default Re: What "style" should the Dr. Strange movie be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by metaphysician View Post
The problem is that this is, itself, contradictory. If your altering physical law, that's still a phenomenon that can be observed, measured, and quantified. That means its subject to science. There is no "beyond scientific understanding." There is only "beyond current scientific knowledge", which is always changing itself. And all it takes for science to begin understanding something is "is a detectable phenomenon."

Which is why trying to define "magic" as "that which is impossible for science to understand" is a useless definition. Something impossible for science to understand is something impossible for *humanity* to understand, because all science is, is organized human understanding.
The thing is, I'm not making things up. This isn't Seahammer's opinion. These are definitions of words:

Magic:
the art of producing a desired effect or result through the use of incantation or various other techniques that presumably assure human control of supernatural agencies or the forces of nature.

Supernatural:
of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.

Science:
a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences. Any branch of the natural or physical science.

I got these from dictionary.com. If you don't see how the two definitions here are contradictory, then I don't know what else to tell you.

Just to be fair, as I said in my last post, I concede that this is just a semantic discussion. Language is subjective, with one word having multiple uses and connotations. I went to the dictionary and chose the definitions that suited my argument (because mama didn't raise no fool). You are sticking to the definitions that fit your argument. I see that, and that's fine. Yes, science can also mean a method of observation and categorization. Fine. But I think *most* people here think of the difference between the two as what I stated above.

Anyway, you seem to be pretty unmovable in your opinions, so I'm going to stop pushing back.

seahammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 08:00 AM   #142
seahammer
Asgardian
 
seahammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Navigating the Sea of Space
Posts: 1,585
Default Re: What "style" should the Dr. Strange movie be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskey Tango View Post
No you're fine, you aren't pushing some weird, meaningless agenda.
Thanks. I'm a new poster around here and I'd rather not post than annoy people....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider - Man View Post
Feh, Gaiman's just a complete nonsense babbler!

What is so hilarious is he (metaphyz) is arguing for the compatibility betwen something that exists (science) and something that does not (magic). In Harry Potter do we really want to believe that his cloak of invisibility is actually sewn with thousands of nano-sized cameras and projectors as the real-world version is or would we rather accept that it operates on some supernatural level that is beyond the ability of science to explain?

Phyz argues that nothing is beyond scientific understanding though the very fact that you can't understand something scientifically (because, you know, it isn't real) by default puts it "beyond scientific understanding".

If we are to accept that Farren's reasoning for what Phyz is saying is true, all it would take is one instance of the Vishanti ignoring Strange's request for help to invalidate it and one being choosing to deny another's request happens every day. I asked my father for money when I was a kid. Sometimes he said yes, sometimes he said no. No scientific understanding necessary.
Great points.

seahammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 12:07 PM   #143
SpiderCool
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 70
Default Re: What "style" should the Dr. Strange movie be?

Science is simply the measurement of magic. Fire was once considered magic, and still could be today.

SpiderCool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 12:39 PM   #144
Spider - Man
Banned User
 
Spider - Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,472
Default Re: What "style" should the Dr. Strange movie be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiderCool View Post
Science is simply the measurement of magic. Fire was once considered magic, and still could be today.
Perhaps in the real world. I agree that any real-world phenomena can be explained by science/math. In fact I believe if the answer to everything real lies in mathematics. HOWEVER, in a fantasy environment like comics, magic and science can be antithetical. I've already given my example from Copolla's Dracula where Dracula leaves the room, closes the door and seconds later his shadow which remained behind looking around exits by slithering under the door. That is 100% fantasy magic that cannot (nor SHOULD it be attempted to) be explained by science. If you want a more 'scientific' example, let's say that to prove phyz wrong all you have to do is take a scientific law and then paint a fictional scenario where that law is broken via the vehicle of magic, i.e.: something that cannot be explained by science by the mere fact that it opposes a scientific law. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics states that "the entropy of a closed system never decreases". A story in which on old rusted piece of metal is placed in a room where the metal DE-oxidizes is all that is necessary to disprove phyz's position in a fantasy environment. So would a ball rolling up hill with no natural force affecting it (i.e.: gravity, electromagnetism, wind, etc.). Magnetic bars that attract no matter which ends are placed together. These are things which could only take place within a fantasy setting. And a Dr. Strange movie would most definitely take place in a fantasy environment so his magic could and most definitely SHOULD be unexplainable by scientific means.

Spider - Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 02:48 PM   #145
Destructus86
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,828
Default Re: What "style" should the Dr. Strange movie be?

OK, don't hate...but you all remember that Nicoles Cage movie where he's a wizard in modern day?

That's actually how I would like to see them do Dr. Strange.

__________________
Ephesians 4:2
Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.
Destructus86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 05:17 PM   #146
Endeavor
Que bolá con el timbeque?
 
Endeavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: FL
Posts: 6,266
Default Re: What "style" should the Dr. Strange movie be?

Uhmm.. No

__________________
"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."
-- Peter David
Endeavor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 05:47 PM   #147
gkokujin
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: in a house
Posts: 2,447
Default Re: What "style" should the Dr. Strange movie be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by metaphysician View Post
*resists urge to go on another 'magic and science are not diametric' rant*
Quote:
Originally Posted by metaphysician View Post
Okay, you get the rant:

Science is not "uses a physical tool powered by electricity." Science is "the study of the world around you, by actually testing to see what the world around you does." Nothing about hand-waving magic casting places it outside the boundaries of scientific understand. All it is, is another field of phenomena that doesn't have a current good scientific understanding. . . which puts it on par with a lot of other non "magical" stuff.

So basically, when you say "I don't want any science in my magic!", you are babbling complete and utter nonsense. Unless your particular type of magic is completely random and unpredictable, or undetectable to the point of nonexistence, then it *is* subject to scientific inquiry and understanding. Even if it hasn't actually been discovered by anybody inclined to subject it to scientific inquiry yet.

yeah you shoulda resisted...

__________________
If you are offended, remain offended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateJustin View Post
no kid in fifteen years will recall what was going on in the haze of animated card game shows where cat faced japanese children yelled annoyingly and danced around and shot mushrooms out of their mouths.
gkokujin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:22 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.