HYPE Super Bowl XLVII thread!!!!!! OMG

[Matt]

It disgusts me, but I'm rooting for Baltimore. I'd rather see the Dirty Birds win a second Super Bowl than the Niners tie the Steelers' record. Especially since if the Niners get six, are a hell of a lot more likely to hit seven before the Steelers, IMO. Plus the every time that the Ravens win the Super Bowl it has the added bonus of crushing the souls of Cleveland sports fans, which I always like.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Originally Posted by Matt

So it is okay to rape or kill someone as long as you have enough money and fame to throw some cash at a few charities and do a few appearances for them? Under those circumstances the wealthy shouldn't have to be held accountable for their crimes because they can "atone," outside of jail? Wow.

Quit twisting my words. I never said he shouldn't face consequences. I stated in my original post on the subject that we should all be held accountable for the consequences of our actions. So if you're going to have a conversation with me, don't put words in my mouth and imply that I've said things that I haven't said.

All I'm putting out there is a question to consider - what is more important? A person being put in a prison for his actions? Or that person who atones for his mistakes by improving the lives of those around him?

If you feel that Ray Lewis' actions post-2000 are not worthy of keeping him out of jail for not telling the whole truth to the authorities, then so be it. That's fair.

But let's not use comparisons like "rape" and "kill" when Ray Lewis isn't thought to be the one that killed that night.

[Raiden]

I'm expecting this game to be close, as both teams are almost mirror image of each other (except for their respective QB). However, I believe Niners will win this Super Bowl, with an unpredicable offense, great running attack, and terrific defense.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay

Quit twisting my words. I never said he shouldn't face consequences. I stated in my original post on the subject that we should all be held accountable for the consequences of our actions. So if you're going to have a conversation with me, don't put words in my mouth and imply that I've said things that I haven't said.

All I'm putting out there is a question to consider - what is more important? A person being put in a prison for his actions? Or that person who atones for his mistakes by improving the lives of those around him?

If you feel that Ray Lewis' actions post-2000 are not worthy of keeping him out of jail for not telling the whole truth to the authorities, then so be it. That's fair.

But let's not use comparisons like "rape" and "kill" when Ray Lewis isn't thought to be the one that killed that night.

You keep saying that he has done all this good, what is it exactly? Dumping a fraction of his millions of dollars into charities? Doing some commercials and photo-ops for them? Pretty speeches and silly dances do not make up for what he did, IMO. Being an accessory to murder and then helping cover it up is just as bad as killing someone, IMO. All the good in the world doesn't bring those people back. So yes, him being punished and facing consequences is important.

Originally Posted by Raiden

I'm expecting this game to be close, as both teams are almost mirror image of each other (except for their respective QB). However, I believe Niners will win this Super Bowl, with an unpredicable offense, great running attack, and terrific defense.

I like the Ravens. They beat Manning on his home turf. They beat Brady on his home turf. I think that they can handle Kaepernick after two weeks of planning. I just think that the momentum is on their side. Niners have a lot to look forward to in the future....but I think that the big stage and the Ravens defense are going to get to Kaepernick and he is going to play like a sophomore.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Originally Posted by Matt

You keep saying that he has done all this good, what is it exactly? Dumping a fraction of his millions of dollars into charities? Doing some commercials and photo-ops for them? Pretty speeches and silly dances do not make up for what he did, IMO. Being an accessory to murder and then helping cover it up is just as bad as killing someone, IMO. All the good in the world doesn't bring those people back. So yes, him being punished and facing consequences is important.

Ray Lewis facing consequences isn't going to bring those people back either.

So I ask, what is the importance of these consequences? Punishment for the sake of punishment, or for rehabilitation? And I think ultimately that's what this debate comes down to.

[Matt]

Why not both? Or other schools of correctional thought? What about deterrence? What about incapacitation? What about crime control? There are other schools of correctional thought than rehabilitation and retribution.

[Dr. Evil]

Yeah, this isn't going to happen:

http://www.salon.com/2013/02/03/footballs_death_spiral/

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Originally Posted by Matt

Why not both?

Because I see the prison system as a means to 1.) rehabilitate criminals so that they are productive members of a civilized society and 2.) a way to keep criminals out of civilized society so as to not be a menace to the citizenry.

Yes, I fully believe in consequences for your actions, I fully believe in severe prison sentences for severe crimes, and I am even pro-death penalty in certain situations.

But I'm not gonna sit here and dwell on something that happened 13 years ago when the person in question has, by all accounts, turned his life around for the better and in the process been a positive influence on the lives of many other people in his community. While I do believe that, at the time, Ray Lewis should have been punished for his actions, I'm not going to demonize him for one act that he has, at least in the public eye, redeemed himself from. It's not like he's still out on the streets running amok.

It's been 13 years, and right, wrong or indifferent, the legal system has made its decision on Ray Lewis.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay

Because I see the prison system as a means to 1.) rehabilitate criminals so that they are productive members of a civilized society and 2.) a way to keep criminals out of civilized society so as to not be a menace to the citizenry.

Yes, I fully believe in consequences for your actions, I fully believe in severe prison sentences for severe crimes, and I am even pro-death penalty in certain situations.

But I'm not gonna sit here and dwell on something that happened 13 years ago when the person in question has, by all accounts, turned his life around for the better and in the process been a positive influence on the lives of many other people in his community. While I do believe that, at the time, Ray Lewis should have been punished for his actions, I'm not going to demonize him for one act that he has, at least in the public eye, redeemed himself from. It's not like he's still out on the streets running amok.

It's been 13 years, and right, wrong or indifferent, the legal system has made its decision on Ray Lewis.

That doesn't mean he should get a free pass nor should we just ignore it when discussing his legacy.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Originally Posted by Matt

That doesn't mean he should get a free pass nor should we just ignore it when discussing his legacy.

He didn't just get a free pass. The justice system made their decision on him after seeing the evidence of the situation.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay

He didn't just get a free pass. The justice system made their decision on him after seeing the evidence of the situation.

No, Ray being the "great leader," that he is, cut a deal to testify against his friends (only after helping them hide and destroy evidence which made a conviction impossible). Like it or not, it is part of his legacy and will always be tied to him. Just as dog fighting will always be tied to Michael Vick's and rape will always be tied to Roethlisberger's.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

That's fine, and it's up to me whether or not I choose to hold it against him.

I choose not to, because I feel he has legitimately turned his life around, and to me, watching a man turn his life around is more important to me than whether or not he did time. It's the same reason why I cheer for Michael Vick and don't hold the dog fighting against him.

And I don't hold "rape" as part of Roethlisberger's legacy because I don't believe he raped anyone. Same way I don't believe that Kobe raped anyone.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay

That's fine, and it's up to me whether or not I choose to hold it against him.

I choose not to, because I feel he has legitimately turned his life around, and to me, watching a man turn his life around is more important to me than whether or not he did time. It's the same reason why I cheer for Michael Vick and don't hold the dog fighting against him.

And I don't hold "rape" as part of Roethlisberger's legacy because I don't believe he raped anyone. Same way I don't believe that Kobe raped anyone.

Wow, you must be really ****ing naive. Roethlisberger didn't rape anyone? Hmm, I wonder how you explain one stall of the bathroom being bleached and security tapes being erased after the responding officers (for whom Roethlisberger was signing autographs) called the victim a "drunk *****," and told her to go away?

Let me ask you this, how do you know Ray Lewis turned his life around? In your eyes is turning one's life around simply behaving yourself when cameras are on you?

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Originally Posted by Matt

Wow, you must be really ****ing naive. Roethlisberger didn't rape anyone? Hmm, I wonder how you explain one stall of the bathroom being bleached and security tapes being erased after the responding officers (for whom Roethlisberger was signing autographs) called the victim a "drunk *****," and told her to go away?

Let me ask you this, how do you know Ray Lewis turned his life around? In your eyes is turning one's life around simply behaving yourself when cameras are on you?

Everything I have heard, the charges against Roethlisberger were dropped. That tells me all I need to know. I'm not going to hold something against him that charges were dropped on, and he was never convicted of. There's enough of these gold digging, attention seeking, claims of "rape" to get a paycheck off these athletes that I'm not going to take an accusation as a carved in stone truth of what happened.

As far as Ray Lewis turning his life around - I don't know the guy personally, so for all I know he's murdering innocent people after every game he ever plays. For all I know he's secretly responsible for Aurora and 9/11 as well. (P.S.: I'm using those as jokes, not as an attack on you or your argument. I just don't want that to be misconstrued later).

But from everything I've read, and all the stories that I've heard, Ray Lewis has been very active in the Baltimore community, moreso than a typical athlete doing "NBA Cares" promo packages.

But the same question can be flipped upon you as well - how do you know he hasn't turned his life around? How do you know that it's all just an act for the cameras?

And to take that even further, how do you know just how involved he was with that incident in Atlanta in 2000?

Seriously - none of us were there. We don't know the extent of his involvement. For all we know he personally stabbed both guys. For all we know, he got caught up in a whirlwind of a situation that he otherwise had nothing to do with, and as a young black man, understandably panicked. Only Ray knows.

But I'll base my judgment of Ray Lewis off of what I do know:

He was not charged with murder, court found him guilty of misdemeanor obstruction of justice, the legal system did not sentence him to jail time, and he has been an active and positive figure in his community.

I'm not saying the legal system is right. I'm not saying it doesn't make mistakes. And I'm not pretending that athletes (and other social figures) don't get easier sentences than you or I would get in identical circumstances. I'm not even denying that Ray Lewis' consequences were equal to the crime he allegedly committed.

But I'm just saying off of what I know, I have nothing to hold against Ray Lewis, and I'm not going to hold something 13 years old against him when I don't even know what happened.

[Themanofbat]

Originally Posted by Matt

It disgusts me, but I'm rooting for Baltimore. I'd rather see the Dirty Birds win a second Super Bowl than the Niners tie the Steelers' record. Especially since if the Niners get six, are a hell of a lot more likely to hit seven before the Steelers, IMO. Plus the every time that the Ravens win the Super Bowl it has the added bonus of crushing the souls of Cleveland sports fans, which I always like.

Go Niners!!!

[Erzengel]

Al Capone was sent to jail for tax evasion and not all the other crimes people were absolutely sure he was doing. Does this mean he didn't do it?

Read,this article about Roethlisberger in SI.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...9185/index.htm

The first rape case he still settled and I found that girl less believable then the last girl who "decided" not to proceed even with a civil case.

Let's face the obvious hypocrisy of a lot of football fans.

You will see lots of fans particularly Steeler fans defend Roethlisberger that he was never charged or convicted. But it's obvious that even as a 2 time Super Bowl winner, he's not used to promote a team while the Mannings, Brady, Brees, Rogers are the obvious faces of their franchises. A lot of people would say that's what he deserves.

In terms of Kobe, after the case he made statement, that while he thought that the sex was consensual he recognizes that she did not. But because of his level of play, his fans "overlook" that.

With regards to Ray Lewis, it really helps that the 2 people who were murdered weren't necessarily nice people. If that was 2 more innocent people, Ray Lewis would not be seen in the light most people give him benefit of the doubt.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay

Everything I have heard, the charges against Roethlisberger were dropped. That tells me all I need to know. I'm not going to hold something against him that charges were dropped on, and he was never convicted of. There's enough of these gold digging, attention seeking, claims of "rape" to get a paycheck off these athletes that I'm not going to take an accusation as a carved in stone truth of what happened.

You clearly don't know much about how the legal system works. Charges were dropped because the police botched the investigation by not quarantining the crime scene and allowing it to be bleached/security tapes to be erased. A public defender could've gotten Roethlisberger off on the contaminated crime scene alone. Forget that rape is the hardest crime to get a conviction on (due to people like you who put victims on trial) and that Roethlisberger had a team of high priced attorneys. Charges would've been futile so the D.A. decided not to put his career on the line by prosecuting a high profile case that he was destined to lose.

That being said, I am done responding to you. You just accused a rape victim who never once disclosed her identity or attempted any sort of civil suit (the first step to getting money), of being a gold digger/attention seeker, without even knowing a damn thing about how the investigation went down. Here's a nickel's worth of free advice, educate yourself. Then maybe I'll bother with the rest of your post.

[chesslover]

Repunt ye sinners!

[runawayboulder]

Almost game time. I think we're getting our first Super Bowl to go into O/T.

[Anita18]

Originally Posted by Matt

You clearly don't know much about how the legal system works. Charges were dropped because the police botched the investigation by not quarantining the crime scene and allowing it to be bleached/security tapes to be erased. A public defender could've gotten Roethlisberger off on the contaminated crime scene alone. Forget that rape is the hardest crime to get a conviction on (due to people like you who put victims on trial) and that Roethlisberger had a team of high priced attorneys. Charges would've been futile so the D.A. decided not to put his career on the line by prosecuting a high profile case that he was destined to lose.

That being said, I am done responding to you. You just accused a rape victim who never once disclosed her identity or attempted any sort of civil suit (the first step to getting money), of being a gold digger/attention seeker, without even knowing a damn thing about how the investigation went down. Here's a nickel's worth of free advice, educate yourself. Then maybe I'll bother with the rest of your post.

Rape can be incredibly murky to prosecute, especially if it's he said/she said and it's all down to whether consent (or lack thereof) was communicated. But destroying physical evidence tells me all I need to know.

I partly agree with Nell on the Ray Lewis case, though. The man is clearly no longer a danger to society and is making aims to better himself (even if it possibly is all for publicity), so what would be the point of punishing him now? Yes, it should be mentioned with his legacy and not swept under the rug, but putting him in jail now is pretty useless. Then again I believe in rehabilitation and I don't believe in the death penalty. It mostly comes down to ideology.


Back to SB talk, I don't even follow football, but I need some background noise while I work, so might as well try to stream it? My sister's from SF and my cousin's from Baltimore and last I checked, they were hanging out together in Atlanta so this should be entertaining.

[Immortalfire]

Poll closed. Enough law talk. The game starts soon.

For those of you that drink, here's some drinking games for you.

Take a drink...

• When the word "elite" is spoken
• Any mention of Colin K's tattoos
• Ray Lewis' turn around in life
• The word "Harbowl" is spoken

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Anita18

Rape can be incredibly murky to prosecute, especially if it's he said/she said and it's all down to whether consent (or lack thereof) was communicated. But destroying physical evidence tells me all I need to know.

I partly agree with Nell on the Ray Lewis case, though. The man is clearly no longer a danger to society and is making aims to better himself (even if it possibly is all for publicity), so what would be the point of punishing him now? Yes, it should be mentioned with his legacy and not swept under the rug, but putting him in jail now is pretty useless. Then again I believe in rehabilitation and I don't believe in the death penalty. It mostly comes down to ideology.


Back to SB talk, I don't even follow football, but I need some background noise while I work, so might as well try to stream it? My sister's from SF and my cousin's from Baltimore and last I checked, they were hanging out together in Atlanta so this should be entertaining.

Oh, I agree. It is silly to say that he should be put in prison or anything. But he also shouldn't be treated like a saint, that was my point.

Originally Posted by Immortalfire

Poll closed. Enough law talk. The game starts soon.

For those of you that drink, here's some drinking games for you.

Take a drink...

• When the word "elite" is spoken
• Any mention of Colin K's tattoos
• Ray Lewis' turn around in life
• The word "Harbowl" is spoken

**** that, I want to get really hammered so I am going to play the Jack Harbaugh drinking game. I drink:

• Any time Jack Harbaugh is shown on camera
• Any time that the announcers mention how proud Jack Harbaugh must be of his sons
• Any time they talk about how difficult it is for Jack Harbaugh and his wife to be in this position (all people should have their problems)
• Any time the announcers say "football pedigree," or a similar phrase when referring to the Harbaugh brothers' upbringing
• Bonus: Two shots any time that Jack Harbaugh is compared with Archie Manning

I may not survive this.

[Mister J]

Over/under on Number of Captain Comeback hissyfits at refs: 3.5

[Trainwreck2100]

Time to "honor" america with a horrible rendition of the anthem we get almost every year

[Anita18]

Originally Posted by Matt

**** that, I want to get really hammered so I am going to play the Jack Harbaugh drinking game. I drink:

• Any time Jack Harbaugh is shown on camera
• Any time that the announcers mention how proud Jack Harbaugh must be of his sons
• Any time they talk about how difficult it is for Jack Harbaugh and his wife to be in this position (all people should have their problems)
• Any time the announcers say "football pedigree," or a similar phrase when referring to the Harbaugh brothers' upbringing
• Bonus: Two shots any time that Jack Harbaugh is compared with Archie Manning

I may not survive this.

Maybe a drink when it's mentioned the Harbaugh family Thanksgiving dinners are gonna be awkward from here on out?

My cousin reports he dropped my sister off at the airport an hour ago. There will be no family feud over football. Not that she cared much about it. Now will be the public transportation crunch/possible riots when my sister arrives back in SF.


EDIT: Oh hell, I totally didn't notice I passed 20K posts until now.