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Old 01-23-2013, 09:33 PM   #76
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Default Re: A problem I'm having as a Girl Gamer...

People care because being objectified in the media perhaps?

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Old 01-23-2013, 09:37 PM   #77
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Default Re: A problem I'm having as a Girl Gamer...

*sigh*

I'm done. G'bye thread.

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Old 01-23-2013, 09:43 PM   #78
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Default Re: A problem I'm having as a Girl Gamer...

It's such a shame that women's rights elicits such contempt from so many people.

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Old 01-23-2013, 09:46 PM   #79
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For me it's less contempt and more of an eyeroll. Not always, just most of the time.

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Old 01-23-2013, 09:52 PM   #80
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That is just as much of a shame.

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Old 01-23-2013, 10:01 PM   #81
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Not really. I reserve my genuine empathy for feminist issues of actual real concern like the situation in India for example.

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Old 01-23-2013, 10:12 PM   #82
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I wouldn't say that it elicits an eyeroll from me so much as a shrug.

I'm pretty confident that I'm not part of the problem here (though, then again, who ever really thinks that they are?). Still, it's male audiences in general that want this objectification to happen, so, as a male, in any discussion like this, I am always lumped in with the majority and deemed part of the problem anyway. I know that I'm not the average male gamer in this situation, but it still makes me feel guilty (which is why I tend to avoid these sort of discussions).

A lot of the time (in my limited experience anyway) female activists tend to resent any men who try to offer any kind of support, either because they think it draws the spotlight away from their problems (which it certainly can), or for some other reason that I don't really understand.

So basically, I'm all for change in the majority's attitude, it's just that I don't really see how I can contribute in any meaningful way except for staying the hell out of the way. Women gamers want to (and are) making themselves heard. What can "forward thinking" do but silently cheer them on? They don't want us to fight their battles for them.

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Old 01-23-2013, 10:13 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Godzilla2000 View Post
I love video games but I seem to have a problem with the way a lot of games present women in them. I know the majority of gamers are of the male persuasion and you like your pixelated women as scantily clad as possible but for me, a female gamer, I want to like certain franchises but I just can't get past all the near naked women in games that are for the most part very one dimensional characters. For example, I really have grown fond of the character Kratos in the God of War games, but the only female characters that seem to be treated with reverence are Kratos wife, daughter and Pandora. Even more disturbing to me is that in the newest God of War game you cannot make a female character for multiplayer because the developers said they did not look good with the default team armor which is pretty head scratching for me because I prefer playing female characters to match my gender. It has been inferred that they did not include female customization because women in their views are only good as naked mindless props in the game. I really really want to like games like God of War, but I as a female gamer want a reason to relate to the main characters of these games without feeling like I'm being slapped because I am female.
Mortal Kombat lets you play as a girl but I recommend you stay away from that game since every female character has a porn star body. Really you are not the first to point this out. While many people tell girls that Lara Croft is the queen of female video game role models, other women say Croft is nothing more than another big chested sex symbol thought up by her male creators. So there really isn't a fair side for girls in the video game world since few games let you be a woman and the ones that do have to sex them up with a huge chest or a perfect 10 figure. You seem like a Playstation girl but I would recommend Gears of War 3. They have girl characters to choose from and when Gears 3 was coming out Epic Games even said they were going to break away from the norm of sexing up female characters and actually make them look and behave like normal women. That is the best advice I can give you.

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Old 01-23-2013, 10:14 PM   #84
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Not really. I reserve my genuine empathy for feminist issues of actual real concern like the situation in India for example.
Wow, if you find an issue beneath your concern, why even take the time to post in a thread devoted to the topic...?

I myself find this sort of thing interesting, though I tend to watch on the sidelines rather than engage in actual debate.

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Old 01-23-2013, 10:22 PM   #85
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Default Re: A problem I'm having as a Girl Gamer...

IDK man, if you have something to add the the argument, do so.

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Old 01-23-2013, 10:26 PM   #86
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Wow, if you find an issue beneath your concern, why even take the time to post in a thread devoted to the topic...?
I didn't say it was beneath me, I said I have no empathy for people who view the fact that video games skew towards men as some kind of horrible social injustice.

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Old 01-23-2013, 10:30 PM   #87
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Default Re: A problem I'm having as a Girl Gamer...

It only really bothers me when it's a logic problem.

Like say a female soldier / knight in a fantasy game wearing armor that leaves her midriff exposed.

That is stupid.

Or someone wearing high heels when they're sneaking around, or fighting.

Again, that is stupid.

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Old 01-23-2013, 10:35 PM   #88
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Like say a female soldier / knight in a fantasy game wearing armor that leaves her midriff exposed.
You mean the types of outfits that are always the first to be modded into a game by the community?

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Old 01-23-2013, 10:46 PM   #89
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You mean the types of outfits that are always the first to be modded into a game by the community?
Yes.

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Old 01-23-2013, 11:31 PM   #90
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IDK man, if you have something to add the the argument, do so.
I already added my thoughts, near the top of this page.

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I didn't say it was beneath me, I said I have no empathy for people who view the fact that video games skew towards men as some kind of horrible social injustice.
Ah, well, I guess I didn't really get that kind of attitude from anyone in this thread. It still seems like a weak way to leave an argument though. "Oh yeah? You should just be happy that you aren't one of the starving children in Africa!"

I just don't think anyone was making this seem like that big of a deal until you brought it up. IDK, I skimmed over the last page or so to be quite honest.

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Old 01-23-2013, 11:44 PM   #91
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I just don't think anyone was making this seem like that big of a deal until you brought it up. IDK, I skimmed over the last page or so to be quite honest.
Eh you missed quite a bit. You woulda thought we were back in the 60's fighting for civil rights. Jesus, err i mean Wolvieboy up there has quite the strong opinion.

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Old 01-24-2013, 01:53 AM   #92
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I didn't say it was beneath me, I said I have no empathy for people who view the fact that video games skew towards men as some kind of horrible social injustice.


I don't think anybody has even made that comparison in the slightest. We're talking about how the industry portrays female characters, nobody came in and said that Sony came over and hit them in the ovaries and then told them they couldn't get a job, or vote or what have you.

Is it easier to be hyperbolic? I suppose so, but all I've seen are people talking about a topic within the confines of gaming as a medium and as a medium its certainly a valid topic of discussion I think to talk about how gaming portrays women.

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Not really. I reserve my genuine empathy for feminist issues of actual real concern like the situation in India for example.
If you take that kind of tact then you really can't complain about anything ever, because somebody will always have it worse than you. Don't like Day 1 DLC? So what, people in North Korea are starving! Don't like microtransactions, or online DRM? Doesn't matter - people in Russia are being oppressed!

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Old 01-24-2013, 02:06 AM   #93
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Default Re: A problem I'm having as a Girl Gamer...

If you want to veer away from games that portray woman in an oversly sexualized manner, I think Kingdom's of Amalur did that pretty well. AFAIK, there isn't any ****ty looking armor woman can wear. Whatever a man can wear in the game, a woman can. In fact, the only sexualized outfit in the game can't even be worn. Only one female character uses it. So yeah, just a suggestion is all.

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Old 01-24-2013, 02:58 AM   #94
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stuff
With my first comment, I wasn't referring to this thread specifically, it was more of a general statement aimed at the "feminist uprising" that has occurred in the gaming industry over the past year or so.

My reference to India was about how I think if you really, truly care about feminism or gender equality, you should know that you have to be smart about picking your battles. Planting your flag on the video game industry because there are too many male characters is the wrong place to do it. Going after a comedian because he told a tongue-in-cheek sexist joke is the wrong ****ing person to fight. If you honestly care, then plant your flag some place of actual importance where real injustice or real oppression is occurring. It's unrealistic to expect people to go to India or some other place like that, but you could go after an employer who has a pattern of sexual harassment or voluteer at a battered women's shelter or something else equally more beneficial and "doable" than trying to take on the game industry by grumbling about it on the Internet.

That's if you genuinely care about this stuff though...

(Not an accusation, just an open-ended statement.)

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Old 01-24-2013, 03:08 AM   #95
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Yeah but in this context, it's a thread about girls in games in a video game forum. It's an entirely appropriate conversation and should still be considered an important discussion to have for gamers. It's just one if the many things that stops the rest of the world from viewing games as a mature and artful medium.

Caring about this issue doesn't stop us from caring about other issues. Also, anyone will tell you that to enact social change, it's best to start with things that affect normal people. Not everyone can understand the social hierarchy of gender issues in India but maybe as a gamer, this could be their window into greater understanding.

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Old 01-24-2013, 03:23 AM   #96
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than trying to take on the game industry by grumbling about it on the Internet.
Well let's remember we are on a message board here. A lot of what we do is inherently grumbling about stuff on the internet, so I don't see why the validity of doing it in regards to this topic is somehow worth calling into question.

But just to address the rest of your post, that wasn't what Godzilla was talking about. She was specifically talking about games, she wasn't talking about systemic sexism or sexual harassment or battered women. She made the point that as a female gamer she felt like she was often either excluded or given ****** female characters to play with.

So obviously yes this discussion will center around that even though that yes this is a small part of a much larger issue. Now if you are saying that you personally think discussing the matter in regards to video games is stupid or invalid, well of course that is your personal opinion but obviously Godzilla felt otherwise, and considering that I think we can agree that as this is a hobby/medium/entertainment form that on some level most of us actually care about to varying degrees that its certainly likely that Godzilla's feelings are coming from someplace earnest.

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Old 01-24-2013, 03:27 AM   #97
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Eh you missed quite a bit. You woulda thought we were back in the 60's fighting for civil rights. Jesus, err i mean Wolvieboy up there has quite the strong opinion.
That's Captain Jesus to you, punk.

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Old 01-24-2013, 08:27 AM   #98
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That's Captain Jesus to you, punk.
LMAO!
....No, seriously. My ass just fell off.

I think "That's Captain Jesus to you, punk" should be the newest Internetz meme.

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Old 01-24-2013, 08:36 AM   #99
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Well...there has certainly been a fascinating debate in here while I was away!

I do agree with a few users in here that for the most part that games are a wish fulfillment type of medium because they are more interactive an experience than say movies and television. I guess it is that wish fulfillment that I am coming from when I talk of gender enforced roles in video games. While there have been strong female characters in video games, they are for the most part the exception and not the rule. Using Mortal Kombat as a reference each and every female fighter is dressed in as little clothing as possible, you can even unlock a costume for Mileena which is basically just bandages covering up her naughty bits but leaving nothing to the imagination. The female characters might have just as well said "Boobies!!!" every time they opened their mouths. I think what dismayed me the most was that as a female gamer I really enjoyed the old school games and was excited for this one since it was going back to the old style of gameplay, but because the female characters were virtually nude I felt like the makers of the game were spitting in my face saying things like "How dare she like playing a violent video game! Let's make her vomit all over her memories by treating her favorite characters like virtual strippers! She should go back to playing her G Rated candy colored Cooking Mama games!"

What's even worse is when they try a little too hard to make a game "female" accessible. Take for instance, Metroid Other M. Samus, the first female protagonist in a video game to be exact, prior to this game was a likeable, no nonsense female warrior in body armor devoid of all that cliched annoying "female" drama. In Other M they turned her into a self doubting, love struck pantomime of Samus Aran that nobody asked for her to be.

It just makes me wonder if there ever could be a happy medium in the Video Game Industry? They should know that even girls like playing blood soaked, violent games sometimes. It's a good way to let off steam so that you don't slap a Fatality on the objects of your ire in real life. Nothing made me feel better back in the day after having a bad day like decapitating people and setting them on fire in my Mortal Kombat games I owned.

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Old 01-24-2013, 10:51 AM   #100
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Godzilla2000

I wouldn't get too discouraged. I am starting to see a very glacial shift in how women are being portrayed in media. We're still years and years away, but take notice of all the things that are happening around the world.

Women have now been accepted into roles as combat infantry.

Lara Croft is being taken more seriously.

I don't remember the name, but the girl from that new game that's coming out.... remember? I forget, something about stealing memories. She's not dressed like a skimpy bimbo, she looks like a real, genuine female character.

AND there was the female assassin in Assasin's Creed for the PS Vita. Wasn't as good as the console version of the franchise, but still it's a step forward.


I think you're going to notice that over-time female characters will start to be taken more seriously. Hell, I even wrote a superheroine book to address the very issues you're talking about. Unfortunately, society is still a ways off from changing course, but I'm definitely seeing the ripples of change taking effect.

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