Do people really find Tupac intelligent?

[Optimus_Prime_]

I find his music to be fairly significant culturally, but then again, so is Bob Dylan, and he's a few cards short of a full deck.

Obviously musical skill or even lyrical skill are not necessarily signs of intelligence. They can be, but not necessarily.

Couple of observations

• I am more of a Biggie fan, but, Tupac was decidedly more honest about being an a**hole. Biggie frequently tried to glamorize himself in his songs, and glossed over the fact that he abused women and frequently put himself and his family/friends in danger over drama he himself caused. Tupac pretty much was straight up about this if and when he did it. His music never attempts to make him seem more than human, kind of like the comic Watchmen, he sets himself up as a broken man and leaves it up to everyone else to decide whether or not he is a hero. I kind of feel like honesty is a sign of intelligence to an extent.
• Tupac didn't understand Machiavelli's The Prince. In fact his life ended up being an illustration of not heeding the book's warning. He seemed to fall for the paranoia and fear the book promoted, which was actually satire. Machiavelli was basically calling a real Prince he knew a jacka**, wrote a manual on how to act like a jacka** with tons of smug comments about how Karma was gonna bite this d***head in the a**. Tupac either never picked up on this, assumed the book was literal, or did pick up on it and ignored it for whatever reason. However, back to bullet point one, maybe Tupac secretly wished for his life to be a warning to others.
• He was definitely a big ole' hypocrite. Preaching one thing, then turning around and doing the opposite. However, again, you could say he was honest about this as well.
• I give him tons of credit for being very experimental. Almost reminds me of the Beatles in how he experiments with so many different styles. He has many songs that don't sound like anything else he has done, and most songs he made seemed to reflect him and his emotions. Doesn't seem like he ever set out to be mainstream. Again, not necessarily a sign of intelligence, but maybe...

So jury is out for me. Do you find Tupac to be really intelligent, or do you think this is an over-exaggerated claim?

[Piper Maru]

I don't listen to rap.

[jonathancrane]

Anymore, I listen to soundtracks or orchestra.

[Optimus_Prime_]

I'm getting a little sick of rap/hip-hop myself. Especially some of these overly arrogant rappers they have these days.

[the last son]

I say yes. Everyone who has come across him in real life stated how much of a genius he was. He changed everything. He was more than a rapper in my eyes. Was he flawed sure but I think at the end of the day he did more positive than good.

[the last son]

There's only one person who is overrated and that's Eminem. I mean he single handedly destroyed hip hop. He was really the first rapper to integrate other countries and people who would not really listen to hip hop. He brought it down because then every rapper wanted to sell like Em and sell to his audience. We lost the streets in hip hop. Plus now people act like Em invented rap smh. It's just now getting back to where whether I like the artist or not it's going back to urban. He gets way too much credit for being mediocre half the time. His first album was good. Second was great. Eminem show was good. Then after that relapse and recovery were bad to average. Now Bad Meets Evil was a step in the right direction. But the subject matter was the same ol same ol. Half of the time he was doing dumb accents and doing silly songs. That man is way way way overrated

[Optimus_Prime_]

Originally Posted by the last son

There's only one person who is overrated and that's Eminem. I mean he single handedly destroyed hip hop. He was really the first rapper to integrate other countries and people who would not really listen to hip hop. He brought it down because then every rapper wanted to sell like Em and sell to his audience. We lost the streets in hip hop. Plus now people act like Em invented rap smh. It's just now getting back to where whether I like the artist or not it's going back to urban. He gets way too much credit for being mediocre half the time. His first album was good. Second was great. Eminem show was good. Then after that relapse and recovery were bad to average. Now Bad Meets Evil was a step in the right direction. But the subject matter was the same ol same ol. Half of the time he was doing dumb accents and doing silly songs. That man is way way way overrated

Kanye West is the guy who, in my opinion, destroyed Hip Hop and Rap.

Me, me, me, look at me, I'm a clown, watch me act like a clown, attention, attention, attention...

[Schlosser85]

Kanye West is a wildly deluded narcissistic idiot.

[Optimus_Prime_]

Originally Posted by Schlosser85

Kanye West is a wildly deluded narcissistic idiot.

That could use more adjectives.

[the last son]

Kanye West is more talented than Eminem Imo. College Dropout, Late Registration>>Slim Shady LP, Marshall Mathers Lp. Plus kanye alone as a producer in the early 2000s made some of the best beats ever heard.

[Asteroid-Man]

Tupac and Biggie got as big as they did because they forever changed the game. Prior to them it was pretty much just "bubblegum rap".

[Asteroid-Man]

Originally Posted by the last son

Kanye West is more talented than Eminem Imo. College Dropout, Late Registration>>Slim Shady LP, Marshall Mathers Lp. Plus kanye alone as a producer in the early 2000s made some of the best beats ever heard.

And Kanye West admits inferiority to Mos Def.

[the last son]

What does his opinion matter, because that's not true at all. Actors say all the time how they can never do a better job than the original and we know just from their art that's not true

[Optimus_Prime_]

Originally Posted by Asteroid-Man

Tupac and Biggie got as big as they did because they forever changed the game. Prior to them it was pretty much just "bubblegum rap".

Have to agree with this. From a music standpoint, they are very influential.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Asteroid-Man

Tupac and Biggie got as big as they did because they forever changed the game. Prior to them it was pretty much just "bubblegum rap".

That's not true. Not at all.

For starters, N.W.A. predates them. Straight Outta Compton revolutionized hip hop and helped to pave the way for Tupac and Biggie. Ice-T predates them. Dr. Dre, Ice Cube, and Eazy-E predates them as well when they became solo artists. Cypess Hill, Slick Rick, Public Enemy, Rakim, and the Beastie Boys predate them. Run DMC and LL Cool J predate them. Snoop Dogg came out before Biggie. Nas came out around the same time as Biggie. Tupac didn't release an album until 1991 and didn't breakout until 1993. Notorious B.I.G. didn't come out until 1994.

And about "bubblegum rap," that term is actually offensive to rappers from the late 80's to early 90's. People like Will Smith, for example, actually had talent and skill. Soulja Boy is a good example of a bubblegum rapper.

[the last son]

Nas as well

[Asteroid-Man]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

That's not true. Not at all.

For starters, N.W.A. predates them. Straight Outta Compton revolutionized hip hop and helped to pave the way for Tupac and Biggie. Ice-T predates them. Dr. Dre, Ice Cube, and Eazy-E predates them as well when they became solo artists. Cypess Hill, Slick Rick, Public Enemy, Rakim, and the Beastie Boys predate them. Run DMC and LL Cool J predate them. Snoop Dogg came out before Biggie. Nas came out around the same time as Biggie. Tupac didn't release an album until 1991 and didn't breakout until 1993. Notorious B.I.G. didn't come out until 1994.

And about "bubblegum rap," that term is actually offensive to rappers from the late 80's to early 90's. People like Will Smith, for example, actually had talent and skill. Soulja Boy is a good example of a bubblegum rapper.

Ok firstly, half of those are hip-hop artists/groups - I'm talking hard rap (and I know hip-hope is a form of rap, but I was specifically talking about hard rap. Hip-hop's popularity was influenced a lot by sample tracks, especially in the case of Run DMC). Sure NWA was in the game, but you gotta remember that they were still considered "underground" back then.

Tupac and Biggie were the first to really appeal to LARGE masses. They made hard Rap mainstream.

Edit: Regardless of it being "offensive" that's all it was ever called it once hard rap started picking up momentum.

[Mace Dolex]

Frankly when I'm listening to songs in my car I'm more into the beat and shaking my groove thang, the lyrics could be full of gibberish that I'm not gonna pay attention anyway.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Asteroid-Man

Ok firstly, half of those are hip-hop artists/groups - I'm talking hard rap (and I know hip-hope is a form of rap, but I was specifically talking about hard rap. Hip-hop's popularity was influenced a lot by sample tracks, especially in the case of Run DMC). Sure NWA was in the game, but you gotta remember that they were still considered "underground" back then.

N.W.A. was considered underground? I don't remember that at all. Other than Run DMC and LL Cool J pre-1990, every artist/group I listed was apart of gangsta rap. N.W.A. and Ice-T practically began gangsta rap. Have you listened to their music?

Tupac and Biggie were the first to really appeal to LARGE masses. They made hard Rap mainstream.

Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg had already made gangsta rap appeal to large masses. The Chronic and Doggystyle were multi-platinum albums. My point is that Tupac and Biggie were not the first. Not at all.

Edit: Regardless of it being "offensive" that's all it was ever called it once hard rap started picking up momentum.

To be honest, I think we don't share the same definition of "bubblegum rap."

[bullets]

After watching numerous interviews with Tupac I believe he was intelligent , but made some controversial statements for attention and to sell records. He seems like a genius compared to most of the current rappers. I don't think he is overrated , but I laugh about people calling him "Thug Angel". Tupac was no angel.

[Asteroid-Man]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

N.W.A. was considered underground? I don't remember that at all. Other than Run DMC and LL Cool J pre-1990, every artist/group I listed was apart of gangsta rap. N.W.A. and Ice-T practically began gangsta rap. Have you listened to their music?



Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg had already made gangsta rap appeal to large masses. The Chronic and Doggystyle were multi-platinum albums. My point is that Tupac and Biggie were not the first. Not at all.



To be honest, I think we don't share the same definition of "bubblegum rap."

Yeah because I wouldn't call Soulja Boy bubblegum - it's ****. Will Smith's early stuff was bubblegum rap (prior to Big Willie Style - that's when it become more pop-rap). And I love Will Smith - using "bubblegum rap" as an insult is news to me.

[Warhammer]

It's because I don't consider this bubblegum rap:

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

I've always considered this bubblegum rap:

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

To each it's own, though. I always considered the term as negative (and talentless) and you consider it softer.

[Mace Dolex]

^ I'd hate to hear what you think of Vanilla Ice and MC Hammer.

[terry78]

To be honest I don't think any rappers are stupid per se, they know what they're doing with their lyrics and their statements. They got their fanbases all sewn up, you don't get to that point by being a moron.

[Incrediblejeff]

Reading through this thread and all I can do is sigh.