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Old 01-29-2013, 01:40 PM   #26
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

There's a difference between a 40 minute "origin story" and just giving the audience the basics.

JL just needs the latter considering that the origins wont be a part of the JL story.

Same thing with Avengers. The origin stories of the characters played no role in the movie, thus we didn't see their origins again in the movie (or at all, save for maybe Ironman in his first solo movie). A big chunk of the audience probably hadn't seen Thor or Captain America, yet saw the movie and thought the movie was great.
-All the audience needed to know about the characters was given in snippits of dialogue from the movie:
-All you needed to know about cap was that he was a supersoldier schoolboy from the 40's, Ironman is a cocky 'billionaire, genius, playboy, philanthropist" with a "piece of shrapnel keeping him alive", Banner "tried to turn himself into cap and failed", Thor is a demi-god from Asgard, etc.

For example, for Flash, all they need is little pieces of dialogue, or a short flashback perhaps with voice over, informing the audience (and the League most likely) that he was a result of a lab accident. You don't need a 40 minute Batman Begins style origin for Flash when the origin isn't connected with the rest of the movie (ie: it isn't Flash's first time facing off against a baddy or something).

Alternatively, they could have an origins montage at the beginning of the movie. There are many ways they could do this.

Financially, it's a different story, as solo movies would probably help the box-office numbers of JL.
However, the way they're doing it would most likely help the box-office numbers of the several solo movies they make afterwards. While JL might not make as much this way, the overall numbers (team up movie + solo movies) might be higher this way.


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Old 01-29-2013, 01:53 PM   #27
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

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Nothing has pointed to a Wonder Woman movie so far. You can bet that we won't be seeing a WW movie until after JL.
Agreed. They’re having trouble trying to figure out how to launch a WW television series (I think Amazon is having trouble now). I’d imagine Warner Bros. is a little gun-shy about WW.

My question is; What if MOS doesn’t do gangbusters? I’m sure it’ll do okay…but what if it ‘only’ does okay? Are they expecting Iron Man numbers? Dark Knight numbers? Or is WB okay with Thor numbers? If MOS isn’t a flat out, runaway hit…what will that mean? I mean other than 300, Zach Snyder doesn’t have a track record that would indicate HUGE expectations. I know Nolan is involved…but still. To make MOS a huge hit, shouldn’t it look a little more… “bring the family”-ish? I mean…does Superman even crack a smile in any trailer? He’s wearing a darker suit and is being taken into custody by the military..even on the poster. “Dark” works for Batman…but Batman is a completely different character. I’m concerned that the families that went to The Avengers in droves won’t be showing up for MOS as much…especially with a Pixar movie opening the following weekend. It makes me wish Justice League wasn’t so dependent upon MOS doing well.

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Old 01-29-2013, 02:05 PM   #28
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Agreed. They’re having trouble trying to figure out how to launch a WW television series (I think Amazon is having trouble now). I’d imagine Warner Bros. is a little gun-shy about WW.

My question is; What if MOS doesn’t do gangbusters? I’m sure it’ll do okay…but what if it ‘only’ does okay? Are they expecting Iron Man numbers? Dark Knight numbers? Or is WB okay with Thor numbers? If MOS isn’t a flat out, runaway hit…what will that mean? I mean other than 300, Zach Snyder doesn’t have a track record that would indicate HUGE expectations. I know Nolan is involved…but still. To make MOS a huge hit, shouldn’t it look a little more… “bring the family”-ish? I mean…does Superman even crack a smile in any trailer? He’s wearing a darker suit and is being taken into custody by the military..even on the poster. “Dark” works for Batman…but Batman is a completely different character. I’m concerned that the families that went to The Avengers in droves won’t be showing up for MOS as much…especially with a Pixar movie opening the following weekend. It makes me wish Justice League wasn’t so dependent upon MOS doing well.
It'll be a hit for one simple reason; 3D. Why do you think WB pushed so hard against Snyder and Nolan to convert it to 3D?

They want to launch the DC universe but Man of Steel has got to make bank. Considering how big 3D has taken off internationally in the last 3 years, it's almost a given that it'll be big.

Alice In Wonderland and Dark of the Moon both made a billion dollars worldwide. It wasn't because they were good films. 3D pushed those films to the billion dollar mark.

Not saying Man of Steel is going to make a billion but considering how great Snyder is with the visuals and the combination of a long post-production schedule and a long converted 3D schedule, the visuals alone will push Man of Steel to 800 million worldwide.

Let the film be really excellent, in terms of audience and critic reaction, it'll hit a billion worldwide easy.

 
Old 01-29-2013, 02:25 PM   #29
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

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Say 'Man of Steel' does gangbusters at the box office and the JL movie is greenlit this summer. We are talking about a 2016 release at the earliest. And this is in the case of a 'best case scenario' where there are no unexpected delays for any reason.
MOS used elements from aborted Superman projects (as well as SR)... and considering Justice League: Mortal was deep into pre-production prior to cancellation, there is that Mulroney script plus artwork and setpieces developed for that movie still lying around in Burbank.

If JL gets greenlit for a 2015 release later this year (after MOS), some of that pre-production work is already done. I can't imagine WB not using some of the action setpieces and/or conceptual artwork for this incarnation. It saves money and cuts down on prep time for filming.

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Old 01-29-2013, 02:38 PM   #30
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

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It'll be a hit for one simple reason; 3D. Why do you think WB pushed so hard against Snyder and Nolan to convert it to 3D?

They want to launch the DC universe but Man of Steel has got to make bank. Considering how big 3D has taken off internationally in the last 3 years, it's almost a given that it'll be big.

Alice In Wonderland and Dark of the Moon both made a billion dollars worldwide. It wasn't because they were good films. 3D pushed those films to the billion dollar mark.

Not saying Man of Steel is going to make a billion but considering how great Snyder is with the visuals and the combination of a long post-production schedule and a long converted 3D schedule, the visuals alone will push Man of Steel to 800 million worldwide.

Let the film be really excellent, in terms of audience and critic reaction, it'll hit a billion worldwide easy.
I’m not trying to argue…I’d love for Superman to be a billion dollar franchise…but 3D doesn’t guarantee anything. Dredd was 3D. John Carter was 3D. Snyder’s own Legend of the Guardians (which I loved) was in 3D too. And in a sea of 3D summer movies, that doesn’t guarantee that it’ll be huge.

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Old 01-29-2013, 02:47 PM   #31
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

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MOS used elements from aborted Superman projects (as well as SR)... and considering Justice League: Mortal was deep into pre-production prior to cancellation, there is that Mulroney script plus artwork and setpieces developed for that movie still lying around in Burbank.

If JL gets greenlit for a 2015 release later this year (after MOS), some of that pre-production work is already done. I can't imagine WB not using some of the action setpieces and/or conceptual artwork for this incarnation. It saves money and cuts down on prep time for filming.
I realise that, but I was actually talking about post-prod. What with the special effects and upping the ante to top the Avengers, Man of Steel and possibly Avengers 2.

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Old 01-29-2013, 02:54 PM   #32
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

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Nothing has pointed to a Wonder Woman movie so far. You can bet that we won't be seeing a WW movie until after JL.

Seeing as how Wonder Woman, Flash and other movies have been on WB's slate along with Justice League, it would make sense that one (or more) of them would move to the fore with the JL movie reportedly in a more tentative position than before.

If that is indeed the case, WB would probably want to move on WW seeing as how she's part of the DC 'Trinity' and there has been momentum (even if it was for the small screen) on that property for a couple of years now. Not to mention that she's a more recognisable figure/property than any of the others reportedly in development.

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Old 01-29-2013, 03:01 PM   #33
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

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I realise that, but I was actually talking about post-prod. What with the special effects and upping the ante to top the Avengers, Man of Steel and possibly Avengers 2.
X-Men: First Class had an even shorter prep time and post-production window... and the final product looks very good. But trying to make a JL movie on that time crunch? WB ain't going to risk that. They'd have to pay even more than what Fox and Disney shelled out to get FC and the POTC sequels out in time for their set release dates.

If they start shooting by the end of this year for a summer 2015 release... they'll have more than enough post-production time. And if the director edits scenes on set (and then sends the scenes over to begin post-production work), that's even more time.

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Old 01-29-2013, 03:16 PM   #34
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

You're right about the whole First Class and POTC business. Thing is, the scope and magnitude of the special effects in 'The Avengers' and just the scale in general was many times that of First Class or any of the POTC movies.

So if 'The Avengers' is the one to beat, you can imagine the size of the workload and the time required to properly deliver the effects to the satisfaction of today's audiences.

Also, hoping that the movie might start shooting by the end of the year might be ambitious.

If the movie is only green-lit in the summer, that would just start the process. The first step would be finding the director, and who knows how long that would take? Assuming it goes quickly, the casting and prep-work and any subsequent re-writes might put the movie more in the early 2014 to spring 2014 slot for filming.

Assuming it goes on for about 3 to 4 months we then have all the editing, scoring and other visual effects stuff to still go through.

Given all that, summer 2016 would probably be a more realistic bet.

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Old 01-29-2013, 03:18 PM   #35
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

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I realise that, but I was actually talking about post-prod. What with the special effects and upping the ante to top the Avengers, Man of Steel and possibly Avengers 2.
If someone like, say, Snyder is chosen to direct then post-production wouldn't be a problem since he works on the CGI as he goes along and not when the movie is done filming. That's what he did for MoS and he got that one done ahead of schedule.

Quote:
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Seeing as how Wonder Woman, Flash and other movies have been on WB's slate along with Justice League, it would make sense that one (or more) of them would move to the fore with the JL movie reportedly in a more tentative position than before.

If that is indeed the case, WB would probably want to move on WW seeing as how she's part of the DC 'Trinity' and there has been momentum (even if it was for the small screen) on that property for a couple of years now. Not to mention that she's a more recognisable figure/property than any of the others reportedly in development.
Yeah, they were on Wb's slate before GL bombed. They won't be doing any solo movies until after JL.

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Old 01-29-2013, 03:35 PM   #36
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

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X-Men: First Class had an even shorter prep time and post-production window... and the final product looks very good.
It didn't look very good. It was passable, but the film focused more on the period piece aspect rather than outlandish special effects anyway. It didn't break any new ground.

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Old 01-29-2013, 04:15 PM   #37
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

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If someone like, say, Snyder is chosen to direct then post-production wouldn't be a problem since he works on the CGI as he goes along and not when the movie is done filming. That's what he did for MoS and he got that one done ahead of schedule.



Yeah, they were on Wb's slate before GL bombed. They won't be doing any solo movies until after JL.
Actually, Man of Steel was pushed back from Christmas 2012 to Summer 2013 precisely for this reason.

There hasn't been any solid announcement or denial from WB regarding any movie. Justice League included.

Jeff Robinov has said in past interviews how they would like to introduce Justice League first and then solo movies.

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Old 01-29-2013, 04:19 PM   #38
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

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Actually, Man of Steel was pushed back from Christmas 2012 to Summer 2013 precisely for this reason.

There hasn't been any solid announcement or denial from WB regarding any movie. Justice League included.

Jeff Robinov has said in past interviews how they would like to introduce Justice League first and then solo movies.
No, Man of Steel was pushed back because WB already had The Hobbit releasing in December and they needed a big summer blockbuster. Snyder got the movie done ahead of schedule, which is why so many took the delay as a shock. Had nothing to do with the CGI or anything else.

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Old 01-29-2013, 04:52 PM   #39
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

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No, Man of Steel was pushed back because WB already had The Hobbit releasing in December and they needed a big summer blockbuster. Snyder got the movie done ahead of schedule, which is why so many took the delay as a shock. Had nothing to do with the CGI or anything else.
Superman: The Man of Steel:
The Superman reboot was supposed to come out this December — but its release was delayed until June 2013, ostensibly to avoid competing with Peter Jackson's The Hobbit. There were plenty of rumors of problems with this film's script, and the delay was announced early enough to allow more time for filming — so this might actually be a case where a release-date change winds up being a very good thing.


source io9.com: http://io9.com/5917503/what-does-it-...sively-delayed

Warner Bros. is racing to get Superman back on screen, and one report says that a new talent has been recruited to assist. Kurt Johnstad, who worked with Zack Snyder on 300 and the script for that film’s in-development sequel, as well as on The Last Photograph, has reportedly been hired to do a rewrite on Man of Steel.

Depending on who you believe, the script David Goyer concocted for the Zack Snyder Superman film may have faced some third act problems. Whether or not that was true, the fact of having someone else come in to do a new pass isn’t unusual. And given that the person in question is a close creative associate of the director, it’s almost to be expected. He was reportedly brought on because David Goyer is now busy on Godzilla.

Moviehole has the report, and says that Christopher Nolan‘s brother Jonathan Nolan also did some work on the script. Again: no surprise there, given the regular involvement Jonah Nolan has on his brother’s films. (He was even tipped as a possible Superman director some time ago.)


source slashfilm.com: http://www.slashfilm.com/man-steel-300-rewrite/

The budget was initially $185 million but later increased to $215 million after Snyder showed higher ups his quick story boards ideas of some of the action sequences he had planned for the film. It was later increased to $235 million to account for extra cgi cost and the added 3D.

The movie is more massive than you can imagine with huge sets built and amazingly shot action sequences. Snyder makes great use of every penny in the budget. The only thing he can compare this to is the action in The Avengers, although he claims this is better shot and feels more real.

The original script only had two main battles; the third was added by Snyder himself.


source cosmicbooknews.com: http://movies.cosmicbooknews.com/con...rs-land-online


Given the above reports of rewrites, additional shooting and added action sequences and special effects, it would be logical to assume the delay was for those reasons as well.

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Old 01-29-2013, 05:02 PM   #40
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

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...Given all that, summer 2016 would probably be a more realistic bet...

Kevin Tsujihara, new CEO at TWX


Jeff Robinov, President of WB Motion Pictures
(could he be on the way out?)

2015 is plenty of time to produce a Justice League film if production starts by late this year or early next year. Outside of an unsuccessful "Man of Steel" picture, the only thing that could delay Justice League would be a changing of the guard at the top and a new vision for the WB's CBM's. Right now there is talk of Jeff Robinov leaving as head of the WB's motion picture group (see http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118065276/ -- there already is a new CEO, Kevin Tsujihara, at Time-Warner). If this happens his successor could possibly have a different direction for their motion pictures let alone their CBM properties and that could change a lot of this already planned.

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Old 01-29-2013, 05:05 PM   #41
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

PowerCosmic is right, all rewrites were done before and during principal photography, and there were no reshoots. Snyder's original production timeline gave him until November to finish post-production on the film. The film was delayed, giving WETA more time and time for effects houses to do 3-D conversion, as well as a more ideal release date, it's the same thing that happened to Harry Potter 6.

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Old 01-29-2013, 05:07 PM   #42
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

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Kevin Tsujihara, new CEO at TWX


Jeff Robinov, President of WB Motion Pictures
(could he be on the way out?)

2015 is plenty of time to produce a Justice League film if production starts by late this year or early next year. Outside of an unsuccessful "Man of Steel" picture, the only thing that could delay Justice League would be a changing of the guard at the top and a new vision for the WB's CBM's. Right now there is talk of Jeff Robinov leaving as head of the WB's motion picture group (see http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118065276/ -- there already is a new CEO, Kevin Tsujihara, at Time-Warner). If this happens his successor could possibly have a different direction for their motion pictures let alone their CBM properties and that could change a lot of this already planned.


Cosmic Book News received an update about the Justice League movie from our DC Entertainment source.

Our source previously provided us recent news on the cast of characters that might be a part of the movie, Aquaman movie news, Green Lantern 2 script details, as well as gave us some inside info about the Man of Steel and Green Lantern a while back.

As we all know a number of names have been associated with directing the Justice League movie, from Christopher Nolan to David Yates to Ben Affleck and Zack Snyder; however, they have all seemingly passed on the project. Our source gave us a name of another that has decided not to do the Justice League movie and it's Ridley Scott.

Our source also tells us that Warner Bros. has the director list down to a definite five list of names who would be interested. We're told they will be expected to pitch their version of the movie, and if everything goes according to plan, an announcement should be made anytime within the next three months with filming "expected" to begin by the end of the year.

However, if everything doesn't go smooth, and unless negotiations and formalities are sped up, the Justice League movie may get pushed back to 2016.


source: cosmicbooknews.com

http://movies.cosmicbooknews.com/con...es-list-down-5

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Old 01-29-2013, 05:08 PM   #43
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

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PowerCosmic is right, all rewrites were done before and during principal photography, and there were no reshoots. Snyder's original production timeline gave him until November to finish post-production on the film. The film was delayed, giving WETA more time and time for effects houses to do 3-D conversion, as well as a more ideal release date, it's the same thing that happened to Harry Potter 6.
I never said there were reshoots. I said additional shooting from the reported script rewrites.

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Old 01-29-2013, 05:14 PM   #44
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

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Superman: The Man of Steel:
The Superman reboot was supposed to come out this December — but its release was delayed until June 2013, ostensibly to avoid competing with Peter Jackson's The Hobbit. There were plenty of rumors of problems with this film's script, and the delay was announced early enough to allow more time for filming — so this might actually be a case where a release-date change winds up being a very good thing.


source io9.com: http://io9.com/5917503/what-does-it-...sively-delayed

Warner Bros. is racing to get Superman back on screen, and one report says that a new talent has been recruited to assist. Kurt Johnstad, who worked with Zack Snyder on 300 and the script for that film’s in-development sequel, as well as on The Last Photograph, has reportedly been hired to do a rewrite on Man of Steel.

Depending on who you believe, the script David Goyer concocted for the Zack Snyder Superman film may have faced some third act problems. Whether or not that was true, the fact of having someone else come in to do a new pass isn’t unusual. And given that the person in question is a close creative associate of the director, it’s almost to be expected. He was reportedly brought on because David Goyer is now busy on Godzilla.

Moviehole has the report, and says that Christopher Nolan‘s brother Jonathan Nolan also did some work on the script. Again: no surprise there, given the regular involvement Jonah Nolan has on his brother’s films. (He was even tipped as a possible Superman director some time ago.)


source slashfilm.com: http://www.slashfilm.com/man-steel-300-rewrite/

The budget was initially $185 million but later increased to $215 million after Snyder showed higher ups his quick story boards ideas of some of the action sequences he had planned for the film. It was later increased to $235 million to account for extra cgi cost and the added 3D.

The movie is more massive than you can imagine with huge sets built and amazingly shot action sequences. Snyder makes great use of every penny in the budget. The only thing he can compare this to is the action in The Avengers, although he claims this is better shot and feels more real.

The original script only had two main battles; the third was added by Snyder himself.


source cosmicbooknews.com: http://movies.cosmicbooknews.com/con...rs-land-online


Given the above reports of rewrites, additional shooting and added action sequences and special effects, it would be logical to assume the delay was for those reasons as well.
The first had it mostly right in that it was moved to avoid competition with The Hobbit. The added action sequences and special effects did not cause the delay because they had already been filmed. That article was referring to things that had already happened before the delay. And rewrites don't always take months to do, especially when the entire script was not being scrapped(there were rumors of it having problems, but those were merely rumors). Filming began a month after the script was reportedly being worked on, and it was probably done by then.

This article from Screenrant explains it best.

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Old 01-29-2013, 05:16 PM   #45
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

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I never said there were reshoots. I said additional shooting from the reported script rewrites.
The script rewrites happened before the shooting even began. So there was never any additional shooting because they already had the script by then.

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Old 01-29-2013, 05:16 PM   #46
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

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Superman: The Man of Steel:
The Superman reboot was supposed to come out this December — but its release was delayed until June 2013, ostensibly to avoid competing with Peter Jackson's The Hobbit. There were plenty of rumors of problems with this film's script, and the delay was announced early enough to allow more time for filming — so this might actually be a case where a release-date change winds up being a very good thing.


source io9.com: http://io9.com/5917503/what-does-it-...sively-delayed

Warner Bros. is racing to get Superman back on screen, and one report says that a new talent has been recruited to assist. Kurt Johnstad, who worked with Zack Snyder on 300 and the script for that film’s in-development sequel, as well as on The Last Photograph, has reportedly been hired to do a rewrite on Man of Steel.

Depending on who you believe, the script David Goyer concocted for the Zack Snyder Superman film may have faced some third act problems. Whether or not that was true, the fact of having someone else come in to do a new pass isn’t unusual. And given that the person in question is a close creative associate of the director, it’s almost to be expected. He was reportedly brought on because David Goyer is now busy on Godzilla.

Moviehole has the report, and says that Christopher Nolan‘s brother Jonathan Nolan also did some work on the script. Again: no surprise there, given the regular involvement Jonah Nolan has on his brother’s films. (He was even tipped as a possible Superman director some time ago.)


source slashfilm.com: http://www.slashfilm.com/man-steel-300-rewrite/

The budget was initially $185 million but later increased to $215 million after Snyder showed higher ups his quick story boards ideas of some of the action sequences he had planned for the film. It was later increased to $235 million to account for extra cgi cost and the added 3D.

The movie is more massive than you can imagine with huge sets built and amazingly shot action sequences. Snyder makes great use of every penny in the budget. The only thing he can compare this to is the action in The Avengers, although he claims this is better shot and feels more real.

The original script only had two main battles; the third was added by Snyder himself.


source cosmicbooknews.com: http://movies.cosmicbooknews.com/con...rs-land-online


Given the above reports of rewrites, additional shooting and added action sequences and special effects, it would be logical to assume the delay was for those reasons as well.
A couple of comments on this. We all should also keep in mind that "Man of Steel" is now in the release time slot that "Green Lantern 2" would have been in, if it weren't for its predecessor's disappointing box office performance. As far as the production budget goes, It is not really surprising that the numbers have gone to $235 million. If you look at some of the big summer tent pole films over the past 8 years, their budgets have been more than $200 million with about 6 percent of them tanking. I don't think you can make another Superman film for less than $200 million and actually make it work anymore. I don't mind the fact that they are putting a lot of people on this project to work the script and direction since it shows to me that they are very concerned and proactive about getting this film right. If they were to lose any other CBM, they wouldn't want to mess up on Superman or Batman.

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Old 01-29-2013, 05:19 PM   #47
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

The movie was pushed back before the filming even started. The delay was announced in July and photography began in August, but that doesn't mean the rewrites only took a month to do. The announcement was just the announcement.

The additional shooting for the expanded action sequences etc would take more time than previously expected.

It's just simple logic.

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Old 01-29-2013, 05:27 PM   #48
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

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Originally Posted by Crazymaverick View Post
The movie was pushed back before the filming even started. The delay was announced in July and photography began in August, but that doesn't mean the rewrites only took a month to do. The announcement was just the announcement.

The additional shooting for the expanded action sequences etc would take more time than previously expected.

It's just simple logic.
What makes you think the rewrite took long to do? If it wasn't a complete rewrite, then it wouldn't have taken long to complete at all. There was no additional shooting because they hadn't began shooting yet. Things might have been added to the script beforehand, but they were in the script by then and were shot on time. Also, most of the action sequences were CGI and Snyder was working on them as he went along filming so they wouldn't be a time issue.

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Old 01-29-2013, 05:32 PM   #49
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

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Here's one of Mayimbe's recent tweets:
Quote:
Justice Leaguers! When MOS does well, don't be surprised if David Goyer does a pass or two at Beall's script. Calling it now.





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Hmm....I predicted this a few weeks ago that Goyer should be given a shot to assist with writing duties on Bealls JL script.

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Old 01-29-2013, 05:33 PM   #50
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

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Hmm....I predicted this a few weeks ago that Goyer should be given a shot to assist with writing duties on Bealls JL script.
Yeah, plus Goyer would probably tie it into MoS better than Beall since he worked on the movie.

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