Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 2

[KangConquers]

Hasn't every rumor/ news bit insisted that Justice League will feature a Bruce Wayne who's passed his origins story, but still relatively new to the cowl? That leaves no room for a Nolan trilogy connection.

[dnno1]

Originally Posted by Steyin

Let me re-phrase: I don't want Nolan's characterization of Batman, or any of the characters from his series, near JL. I think its time to move on to a new take. Is it easy to tie Nolan's Batman in? Sure, but his take on the character after BB is one I don't particularly enjoy, nor one that I feel melds with what I would envision in a shared universe.

Just a personal preference, but I truely think we can attain an even better Batman from here on out. To all of a sudden tack on the mystical/supernatural/alien aspects from the rest of the DC universe to what Nolan has already established just feels like a bastardization that is unnecessary. I prefer to have the mystical, etc, along with a Batman that someone isn't afraid to show as highly acrobatic, intelligent and uses a variety of techniques/fighting styles.

I think the time to move on happened when Nolan closed his trilogy with "The Dark Knight Rises".


Batman in Injustice: Gods Among Us


Batman in The Dark Knight Rises
(action figure)

Even the version of Batman in the VG Injustice: Gods Among Us looks like Nolan's Batman (and he is in the Justice League), so it can happen. How is as easy as writing in a crisis moment and having the universes merge. Whether you want it or not, it can be done, and it will be the marketability of the idea that will determine its use.

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

wait...why do you need to merge universes again?

Why can't Man of Steel (first contact with Aliens) take place after TDKR? Isn't that the normal way things go? What is released afterwards usually takes place afterwards. (usually)

[jmc]

Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog

wait...why do you need to merge universes again?

Why can't Man of Steel (first contact with Aliens) take place after TDKR? Isn't that the normal way things go? What is released afterwards usually takes place afterwards. (usually)

What, Clark has been sitting on the sidelines watching news reports of Gotham being occupied and decides he'll do nothing about it?

[dnno1]

Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog

wait...why do you need to merge universes again?

Why can't Man of Steel (first contact with Aliens) take place after TDKR? Isn't that the normal way things go? What is released afterwards usually takes place afterwards. (usually)

Then he (Clark Kent) would have been alive in Nolan's universe -- a universe he said had no other superheroes. It could work, but it will bring up questions. If you merge universes it still keeps the Batman, pre-TDKR, true to its original vision.

[HighFivingMF]

Originally Posted by jmc

What, Clark has been sitting on the sidelines watching news reports of Gotham being occupied and decides he'll do nothing about it?

Sounds like a problem a writer could solve. He could have been on his self-discovery thing during this time. Or, he heard that "nobody enters the city" thing.

[LibidoLoca]

Yeah metahumans have existed for years but the goverment has been covering them up. So they're basically urban legends. Then Supes comes along and everything changes and makes their existence public. Which of course causes mass hysteria and has the President create a special Anti-Metahuman Task Force comprised of Checkmate/Cadmus/Suicide Squad. Of course this takes place sometime after TDKR so the whole "why weren't the others there?" question can be put to rest sort of...

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Originally Posted by jmc

What, Clark has been sitting on the sidelines watching news reports of Gotham being occupied and decides he'll do nothing about it?

to quote Papa Kent in the trailer: ".....maybe"

He keeps that side of himself a secret. Clark sits on the sidelines most of his early life, not just flying off and getting involved in every armed conflict and saving millions of lives even though he can.

It seems like Clark doesn't decide to help people actively until he finds the fortress of solitude and the message from Jor El, which could take place after TDKR.

Originally Posted by dnno1

Then he (Clark Kent) would have been alive in Nolan's universe -- a universe he said had no other superheroes. It could work, but it will bring up questions. If you merge universes it still keeps the Batman, pre-TDKR, true to its original vision.

During the time of TDK trilogy there are no other superheroes out there, even if Clark Kent is alive. He hasn't become "Superman" yet.

After TDKR, Clark Kent becomes Superman, Diana arrives, Hal gets his ring, Flash gets in his accident, etc.

[dnno1]

Now you guys are thinking. That's a good thing.

[jmc]

I swear some of you are willing to overlook anything just to get Nolan's Batman in a JL film. **** logic.

[HighFivingMF]

Originally Posted by jmc

I swear some of you are willing to overlook anything just to get Nolan's Batman in a JL film. **** logic.

I don't care what they use either way, Bale, Levitt, someone new (as long as I like them) I just want to enjoy the movies. You're the one throwing logic to the side in favor of what you want.

[protocida]

Originally Posted by jmc

What, Clark has been sitting on the sidelines watching news reports of Gotham being occupied and decides he'll do nothing about it?

He could be in the Artic.

[LibidoLoca]

Originally Posted by dnno1

I think the time to move on happened when Nolan closed his trilogy with "The Dark Knight Rises".


Batman in Injustice: Gods Among Us


Batman in The Dark Knight Rises
(action figure)

Even the version of Batman in the VG Injustice: Gods Among Us looks like Nolan's Batman (and he is in the Justice League), so it can happen. How is as easy as writing in a crisis moment and having the universes merge. Whether you want it or not, it can be done, and it will be the marketability of the idea that will determine its use.

That Bats figure looks mighty sinister. Not like that's a bad thing.

[HighFivingMF]

Originally Posted by LibidoLoca

That Bats figure looks mighty sinister. Not like that's a bad thing.

Looks like he just said "How you dern?"

[LibidoLoca]

[Whiskey Tango]

Originally Posted by jmc

I swear some of you are willing to overlook anything just to get Nolan's Batman in a JL film. **** logic.

It's because they love you.

[Whiskey Tango]

Originally Posted by HighFivingMF

I don't care what they use either way, Bale, Levitt, someone new (as long as I like them) I just want to enjoy the movies. You're the one throwing logic to the side in favor of what you want.

[Shikamaru]

Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog

No man, the will is everything. Just as crazy old Ra's said.

He doesn't need money, a healthy fighting body, Hawking's level smarts or anything, only the will (and the idea I suppose) to do what's necessary. The will to give Earth the team of heroes it needwill



Definitely out of character from the comics/show.

But Bruce Wayne hasn't shown an unwillingness to work with others in Nolan's universe. He works with Gordon, Selina Kyle, Blake, etc.

You could still have him not trust his fellow superheroes though. Perhaps that's a part of the symbol of the League. When I said the symbol would show that Earth's superhumans are banding together to defend Earth, it also means that they are protecting the Earth from the individual members. Instead of there being 7 superhumans out in the wild that the public don't trust and aren't sure which nations they protect etc, Bruce brings them together to let the world know that they are on the same side, and that they all fight for the same cause together.

Again, he doesn't need money, a healthy fighting body, etc, only the will to do what's necessary. The 'will' to protect the Earth from this emerging phenomena of aliens and superhumans, both villains and 'heroes' (Superman).
This way, Bruce knows that the rest of the team can deal with another member if they ever go rogue. He can also secretly keep the only Kryptonite handy to take care of Superman if he needed to.

First of all, you still ignored all of my main points. Please offer an argument against those points. Those are the main factors. They can be found in my last reply to Project862006, page 30. You've only addressed the things on the side that I brought up yet you keep insisting that your argument is overall superior. I would copy and paste them to you if my internet wasn't down at the moment (currently using phone data) so I apologize for that.

Second, he needs more than just will. I already addressed this. If I had the will to stop an alien attack, that doesn't mean I will succeed. I would die in the process. And Ra's didn't say you could do it with just will. Sure that will is a major factor in what makes Bruce Batman butjust will by itself does nothing. Bruce used his will to reach the Sherlock Holmes leveo throughout years of dedication. He didn't just say "Yeah, I have will so I can go fight crime right now! Yay!" In fact, his belief that he can clean Gotham using just his will to fight against corruption turned out to be false and that's why he decides to travel the world in order to become the Batman.

Third, Gordon is Batman's first ally and has a special connection with him due to that thus he is one of the people Batman trusts the most even in the comics so that's not a good example. Selina is also really close to him in the comics (joined the Bat family at one point). They do sometimes end up on opposite sides of the law but even comic Batman would work with her in a No Man's Land/TDKR type of situation so she wouldn't be a good example either. As for Blake, Bruce trusting him with the Batcave and mantle after only getting to know him for a few days is stupid to begin with and very out of character for Bruce. Which brings me to my next point...

Fourth, Nolan's Batman trusting everyone and having absolutely zero problems with working in a team is not an argument for why he should be in JL; it's an argument for why he shouldn't be. If what you said is true (which I don't think it is other than in a few huge pars in TDKR), then that means Nolan's Batman acts out of character and Batman should be rebooted so that we can have an accurate Batman in JL.

Fifth, you keep trying to pitch a way to do this but like I said before in one of my main points which you ignored twice now, it is not about how good you can tie in the Nolan films. No matter how hard you try, you won't be able to do Batman and the overall quality of the JL movie justice as much as you can with having the classic Batman as we know him to be standing next to the JL. That is what you're missing. You're already limiting the potential of your JL film greatly by going that route.

[Kevin Smith]

Originally Posted by dnno1

Batman in The Dark Knight Rises
(action figure)

[Juicy J]

Originally Posted by jmc

I swear some of you are willing to overlook anything just to get Nolan's Batman in a JL film. **** logic.

It's genuinely astounding. Nolan's universe carrying over into this new one won't happen for any number of reasons. How some of you are still entertaining the idea is beyond me, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.
Do you really not think it would be better off to just reboot the character? Someone please enlighten me as to what's wrong with just rebooting the character.

[Whiskey Tango]

Comics: serious business.

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

*edit

[Shikamaru]

Originally Posted by dnno1

I think the time to move on happened when Nolan closed his trilogy with "The Dark Knight Rises".


Batman in Injustice: Gods Among Us


Batman in The Dark Knight Rises
(action figure)

Even the version of Batman in the VG Injustice: Gods Among Us looks like Nolan's Batman (and he is in the Justice League), so it can happen. How is as easy as writing in a crisis moment and having the universes merge. Whether you want it or not, it can be done, and it will be the marketability of the idea that will determine its use.

Those designs have nothing in common other than the fact that they both feature Batman wearing armor. The armor themselves look different. Armored Batman =/= Nolan's Batman. It seems to be more of a style thing considering that everyone else is wearing armor in that game.

I still don't get how going this route is more marketable. Unlike Spider-Man prior to the reboot, the GA already adjusted to multiple different versions of Batman within a short period of time throughout the decades. At this point, any good version of Batman will bring in tons of money. Batman doesn't need Nolan to break box office records.

[Shikamaru]

Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog

No man, the will is everything. Just as crazy old Ra's said.

He doesn't need money, a healthy fighting body, Hawking's level smarts or anything, only the will (and the idea I suppose) to do what's necessary. The will to give Earth the team of heroes it needwill



Definitely out of character from the comics/show.

But Bruce Wayne hasn't shown an unwillingness to work with others in Nolan's universe. He works with Gordon, Selina Kyle, Blake, etc.

You could still have him not trust his fellow superheroes though. Perhaps that's a part of the symbol of the League. When I said the symbol would show that Earth's superhumans are banding together to defend Earth, it also means that they are protecting the Earth from the individual members. Instead of there being 7 superhumans out in the wild that the public don't trust and aren't sure which nations they protect etc, Bruce brings them together to let the world know that they are on the same side, and that they all fight for the same cause together.

Again, he doesn't need money, a healthy fighting body, etc, only the will to do what's necessary. The 'will' to protect the Earth from this emerging phenomena of aliens and superhumans, both villains and 'heroes' (Superman).
This way, Bruce knows that the rest of the team can deal with another member if they ever go rogue. He can also secretly keep the only Kryptonite handy to take care of Superman if he needed to.

First of all, you still ignored all of my main points. Please offer an argument against those points. Those are the main factors. They can be found in my last reply to Project862006. You've only addressed the things on the side that I brought up yet you keep insisting that your argument is overall superior. I would copy and paste them to you if my internet wasn't down at the moment (currently using phone data) so I apologize for that.

Second, he needs more than just will. I already addressed this. If I had the will to stop an alien attack, that doesn't mean I will succeed. I would die in the process. And Ra's didn't say you could do it with just will. Sure that will is a major factor in what makes Bruce Batman butjust will by itself does nothing. Bruce used his will to reach the Sherlock Holmes leveo throughout years of dedication. He didn't just say "Yeah, I have will so I can go fight crime right now! Yay!" In fact, his belief that he can clean Gotham using just his will to fight against corruption turned out to be false and that's why he decides to travel the world in order to become the Batman.

Third, Gordon is Batman's first ally and has a special connection with him due to that thus he is one of the people Batman trusts the most even in the comics so that's not a good example. Selina is also really close to him in the comics (joined the Bat family at one point). They do sometimes end up on opposite sides of the law but even comic Batman would work with her in a No Man's Land/TDKR type of situation so she wouldn't be a good example either. As for Blake, Bruce trusting him with the Batcave and mantle after only getting to know him for a few days is stupid to begin with and very out of character for Bruce. Which brings me to my next point...

Fourth, Nolan's Batman trusting everyone and having absolutely zero problems with working in a team is not an argument for why he should be in JL; it's an argument for why he shouldn't be. If what you said is true (which I don't think it is other than in a few huge pars in TDKR), then that means Nolan's Batman acts out of character and Batman should be rebooted so that we can have an accurate Batman in JL.

Fifth, you keep trying to pitch a way to do this but like I said before in one of my main points which you ignored twice now, it is not about how good you can tie in the Nolan films. No matter how hard you try, you won't be able to do Batman and the overall quality of the JL movie justice as much as you can with having the classic Batman as we know him to be standing next to the JL. That is what you're missing. You're already limiting the potential of your JL film greatly by going that route.

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

K. I'll address your points.

And for the record I'm not saying my way is superior, I'm just saying that I think it could work.

Originally Posted by Shikamaru

The main reasons are the fact that Bruce quits and leaves Gotham at the end of the movie

He doesn't have to go back to Gotham. The revelation of Superhumans/aliens etc in MoS can make Bruce realize that he has another problem ahead of him that he believes he has the power to help fix. Power in this case meaning simply the act of gathering the heroes together using his Batman persona, not using his body.

Originally Posted by Shikamaru

the unnecessary 8 year timeskip which would make Bruce way older than Superman and the rest of the JL and that would be stupid

I don't think it's stupid. 40 year old Bats, 30 year old Supes? Sounds fine to me. Iron Man's almost 50 and Thor and Cap are only 30 and no one seems to mind.

Originally Posted by Shikamaru

, and the fact that we learn in TDKR that his body is completely worn out.

Again, I don't think Bruce has to go throwing his body up against any more Bane's, or anyone for that matter.

Originally Posted by Shikamaru

And no, it isn't completely not plausible to have a shared universe with the Nolan films canon. You can still force the idea somehow by having John Blake as Batman or by having Bruce be the Nick Fury of the team like some people suggested but those oltions should not be even considered IMO.

Interesting. As I think Bats (Bruce) should be the Nick Fury (and the Cap sort of) of the team, and that Blake should also secretly be the Batman who springs into action at the end as well :P. Bruce can secretly leave at the end of the movie, having completed his mission of giving the world a symbol of hope (and creating a system (the League) to keep the world's superhumans (the members) in check). JL2 can give us the next generation of the league with Bruce's successor Robin Blake, Hal's successor John Stewart, and Barry's successor Wally West. "As men, they're flesh and blood, they can be destroyed, but as a symbol, they can be everlasting!"

Originally Posted by Shikamaru

Whatever happens with Nolan's Batman after TDKR is not Batman and it is not what should be seen in a long-awaited JL movie that features the top 2 most iconic superheroes standing side by side. A JL movie with Bruce as Batman and as we know him is the real deal. Anything else will simply be nowhere as good to the potential that this thing has regardless of how much effort they put into it and that is a fact we should all be aware of.

probably. But I still think it could work.