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View Poll Results: I feel that the ACA is...
a positive thing for the country 8 12.12%
mostly positive 13 19.70%
I am indifferent/neutral to it. 3 4.55%
mostly negative 13 19.70%
terrible 23 34.85%
I need to wait and see. 6 9.09%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-01-2013, 10:48 AM   #101
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Default Re: Affordable Care Act: Real Reform or More Bureaucracy?

chaos. I mean, chaos.


http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?p...d-db7a4da2ef26

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Old 04-01-2013, 01:52 PM   #102
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Default Re: Affordable Care Act: Real Reform or More Bureaucracy?

Hope and Change!

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Old 04-01-2013, 05:29 PM   #103
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Default Re: Affordable Care Act: Real Reform or More Bureaucracy?

Gotta love this change....uh?

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Old 04-01-2013, 05:32 PM   #104
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Default Re: Affordable Care Act: Real Reform or More Bureaucracy?

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Originally Posted by SV Fan View Post
Let's put it this way Bachmann said that Obamacare will literally "kill" people, now I get people might see it as a economic burden for alot of people and if they want to debate it on that merit go ahead, but what exactly in Obamacare is going to kill people? I guess one could make the argument that people will get a lesser care and by proxy some people might get misdiagnosed which leads to death but that completely ignores the 40M people who don't have medical coverage that might actually get saved so wouldn't that be a balancing act? And even if her point was supposed to be the lesser coverage will lead to more problems for people who do pay, why not word it that way.

In the case of Grayson his statement said that the Republicans don't want to do anything about the people who aren't covered(in which case they want to just leave him to die). People who want to make a counter argument to this will argue they already have Medicaid.

Now my original point was I think Grayson was going trying to be funny in his presentation(even if at some level he may believe it), while Bachmann sounded like she really believed Obamacare will "literally" kill people(either that or she was going all out for satire). Now one could argue Grayson's statement were in bad taste(saying Republicans want people to go die) or very simplistic in his interpretations but it doesn't change the fact that his point at least had some basis in reality(ie that the Health Care System we have for 40M people has it's far share of issues). Bachmann's comments on the other hand have no basis in reality(or very slim if she was trying to say that peoples coverage won't be as good and will cause problems)
That is an argument that isn't even worth having, they are both far right idiots.....there is enough facts out there to slam Obamacare about, Fiscal Conservatives don't need what they are saying to prove their point.....they only give far left people something to ***** about instead of looking at the actual facts and saying..."oh ****...." Obama lied through his teeth...

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Old 04-01-2013, 05:59 PM   #105
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That is an argument that isn't even worth having, they are both far right idiots.....there is enough facts out there to slam Obamacare about, Fiscal Conservatives don't need what they are saying to prove their point.....they only give far left people something to ***** about instead of looking at the actual facts and saying..."oh ****...." Obama lied through his teeth...
Why needed Bachmann picked an easy target and go after it while over exaggerating her point(like Grayson did) instead of pulling something out of her arse then? I understand there is many easy targets, but people dieing is not one of them(without an in depth explanation of how exactly that works)

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Old 04-01-2013, 06:02 PM   #106
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Default Re: Affordable Care Act: Real Reform or More Bureaucracy?

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Why needed Bachmann picked an easy target and go after it while over exaggerating her point(like Grayson did) instead of pulling something out of her arse then? I understand there is many easy targets, but people dieing is not one of them(without an in depth explanation of how exactly that works)
Well hell SV....that has been her MO since becoming a House Representative...

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Old 06-18-2013, 05:14 PM   #107
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Default Re: Affordable Care Act: Real Reform or More Bureaucracy?



That's what's happening now with out the ACA.

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Old 06-18-2013, 07:09 PM   #108
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That's what's happening now with out the ACA.
From my understanding, while Walmart makes close to 15B a year, 2B in subsidies(food stamps, welfare, etc) are paid to Walmart employees. Why don't the Republicans go after Corporate Welfare?

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Old 06-21-2013, 08:54 AM   #109
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Default Re: Affordable Care Act: Real Reform or More Bureaucracy?

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From my understanding, while Walmart makes close to 15B a year, 2B in subsidies(food stamps, welfare, etc) are paid to Walmart employees. Why don't the Republicans go after Corporate Welfare?
How is that Corporate Welfare? Besides, Wal-Mart paying a lower wage also means that they have less to deduct from their gross income, thus boosting the amount of Corporate Income Tax owed to the government at the end of the fiscal year. They save money as a corporate entity, true, but federal coffers are also a little more full as a result.

But, if it is Corporate Welfare, then you can also argue that every company everywhere that pays an employee is on Corporate Welfare. Why? Because personal exemptions, standard and itemized deductions, and credits such as the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) allow employers to pay a lower wage, because each of the deductions/exemptions/credits I mentioned above allows the taxpayer to realize a higher after-tax income than they would have otherwise at the same tax rate. This, in turn, helps keep wages lower than they would normally be.

I wonder how you would react, though, if Republicans went after Corporate Welfare by going after the EITC? Or, on the business end, by demanding a net across-the-board pay increase of all employees in all businesses? After all, the loss of the EITC would likely result in a demand for higher wages from those low-paid Wal-Mart employees that they likely wouldn't be able to ignore, and I can't imagine that a sudden, across-American-businesses pay increase would have any impact on business health . . . would it?

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Old 07-02-2013, 06:20 PM   #110
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Default Re: Affordable Care Act: Real Reform or More Bureaucracy?

White House Delays Employer Mandate Requirement Until 2015

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-2015/?print=1

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The Obama administration will not penalize businesses that do not provide health insurance in 2014, the Treasury Department announced Tuesday.

Instead, it will delay enforcement of a major Affordable Care Act requirement that all employers with more than 50 employees provide coverage to their workers until 2015.

The administration said it would postpone the provision after hearing significant concerns from employers about the challenges of implementing it.
2015? If my math is correct, that means that this "gift" from this crap piece of legislation will now hit employers after 2014 mid-terms instead of hitting before them.

But, I'm sure that's just a coincidence. Right?

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Old 07-02-2013, 09:16 PM   #111
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Default Re: Affordable Care Act: Real Reform or More Bureaucracy?

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White House Delays Employer Mandate Requirement Until 2015

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-2015/?print=1



2015? If my math is correct, that means that this "gift" from this crap piece of legislation will now hit employers after 2014 mid-terms instead of hitting before them.

But, I'm sure that's just a coincidence. Right?
Not surprised anymore...

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Old 07-04-2013, 08:01 AM   #112
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Default Re: Affordable Care Act: Real Reform or More Bureaucracy?

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Not surprised anymore...
There's an opinion piece in the WSJ that I thought sums up the Baucus-labeled "train wreck" quite well:

Quote:
This is more than a typical government snafu. It relates directly to the design of the law, which was thoughtlessly written and rammed through Congress with instructions for the bureaucracy to figure it all out.

And, lo, over eight interim final rules, three final rules, 20 requests for comment, 21 proposed rules, one information collection request, two amendments to the interim final rules, six requests for information and one frequently-asked-questions document, the Administration has created an employer-mandate system that, for example, requires business to track and report every full-time employee's hours of service on a monthly basis.
Although I feel sorry for the citizens negatively affected by this atrocious piece of legislation, I have to admit that I'm enjoying the fallout from its implementation--or, the attempts to implement it, I should say. Obamacare may very well end up being the best example of why "big government" is such a bad idea.

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Old 07-04-2013, 12:21 PM   #113
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Default Re: Affordable Care Act: Real Reform or More Bureaucracy?

I still can't believe that people want to defend this poorly written law

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Old 07-04-2013, 01:22 PM   #114
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Default Re: Affordable Care Act: Real Reform or More Bureaucracy?

When a couple of my lawyer friends read it when it was first passed, and said that it appeared to have been purposefully written so that it was hard to understand, I thought to myself, we are about to get royally screwed. I swear, I think the only thing positive I have heard about this thing is that .... well ............. hmmmmm.... dang.

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Old 07-04-2013, 10:56 PM   #115
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Default Re: Affordable Care Act: Real Reform or More Bureaucracy?

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When a couple of my lawyer friends read it when it was first passed, and said that it appeared to have been purposefully written so that it was hard to understand, I thought to myself, we are about to get royally screwed. I swear, I think the only thing positive I have heard about this thing is that .... well ............. hmmmmm.... dang.
Yeah, I've been studying about how the legislative process works, and lawmakers often intentionally make legislation confusing so that the people won't get pissed off about the finer details. However in this case, it seems as if Congress and the White House wrote the law that was hard for them to understand as well and it's biting them in the ass.

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Old 07-05-2013, 09:12 AM   #116
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Default Re: Affordable Care Act: Real Reform or More Bureaucracy?

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Yeah, I've been studying about how the legislative process works, and lawmakers often intentionally make legislation confusing so that the people won't get pissed off about the finer details. However in this case, it seems as if Congress and the White House wrote the law that was hard for them to understand as well and it's biting them in the ass.
Yeah Max Baucus and the Chief Counsel to the finance committee at that time Liz Fowler were the main writers, Liz Fowler has been said to be the chief architect of the bill. But what usually happens is they write the initial bill and then they send it to their lawyers, and Fowler herself is a lawyer. So I am sure that is where all of the lawyer mumbo jumbo was in there.

Interesting enough, she is now Vice President of Global Health Policy with Johnson & Johnson. So she is now working for a pharmaceutical company. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

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Old 07-05-2013, 03:55 PM   #117
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Default Re: Affordable Care Act: Real Reform or More Bureaucracy?

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That's what's happening now with out the ACA.
How is Wal-Mart being subsidized here? The government isn't writing checks specifically to Wal-Mart to provide healthcare. It's providing healthcare to people who make crappy wages, which applies to a lot of businesses. That's a terrible argument there

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Old 07-08-2013, 01:53 PM   #118
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Default Re: Affordable Care Act: Real Reform or More Bureaucracy?

I'm not sure why Obama want's to go down in history as the man who created the Obamacare disease...er..I mean plan.

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Old 07-08-2013, 02:06 PM   #119
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I'm not sure why Obama want's to go down in history as the man who created the Obamacare disease...er..I mean plan.
However bad his plan itself may be, the premise that everyone deserves to have health care is not a disease. We're talking about the collective good. I'd much rather pay more in taxes knowing I'll be taken care of when I'm sick than leave it up to chance and hope I can pay for whatever treatment I may need. One only needs to Google what the most prosperous countries are with the highest quality of life to see that those countries have socialist policies. They take care of their citizens. It's the basis of humanity.

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Old 07-08-2013, 02:17 PM   #120
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Default Re: Affordable Care Act: Real Reform or More Bureaucracy?

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However bad his plan itself may be, the premise that everyone deserves to have health care is not a disease. We're talking about the collective good. I'd much rather pay more in taxes knowing I'll be taken care of when I'm sick than leave it up to chance and hope I can pay for whatever treatment I may need. One only needs to Google what the most prosperous countries are with the highest quality of life to see that those countries have socialist policies. They take care of their citizens. It's the basis of humanity.
He's not calling health care a disease; he's calling the way they're trying to solve it here the disease. It's a rotten bill that doesn't do anything to cut costs, doesn't provide as much access as stated, and is loaded with back-room deals that protects certain groups that vote a certain way. When you have politicians saying, "We have to pass the bill for you to find out what's in it," you know the bill is not going to be good.


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Old 07-08-2013, 02:26 PM   #121
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He's not calling health care a disease; he's calling the way they're trying to solve it here the disease. It's a rotten bill that doesn't do anything to cut costs, doesn't provide as much access as stated, and is loaded with back-room deals that protects certain groups that vote a certain way.
Thank you. You said it much better than I could.

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Old 07-08-2013, 02:41 PM   #122
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Thank you. You said it much better than I could.
No problem.

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Old 07-08-2013, 05:26 PM   #123
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Default Re: Affordable Care Act: Real Reform or More Bureaucracy?

ObamaCare's "Liar" Subsidies

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...mod=hp_opinion

Quote:
The White House seems to regard laws as mere suggestions, including the laws it helped to write. On the heels of last week's one-year suspension of the Affordable Care Act's employer mandate to offer insurance to workers, the Administration is now waiving a new batch of its own ObamaCare prescriptions.

These disclosures arrived inside a 606-page catch-all final rule that the Health and Human Services Department published on July 5a classic Friday news dump, with extra credit for the holiday weekend. HHS now says it will no longer attempt to verify individual eligibility for insurance subsidies and instead will rely on self-reporting, with minimal efforts to verify if the information consumers provide is accurate.
So you can basically underreport your income to get the subsidies, and the federal government won't compare what you state your income is to what the IRS shows your income to be.

But that would never be abused, would it? I mean, no one ever underreports their income to the federal government for financial advantage, do they?

Man, this just gets better and better.

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Old 07-09-2013, 11:11 PM   #124
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Default Re: Affordable Care Act: Real Reform or More Bureaucracy?

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ObamaCare's "Liar" Subsidies

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...mod=hp_opinion



So you can basically underreport your income to get the subsidies, and the federal government won't compare what you state your income is to what the IRS shows your income to be.

But that would never be abused, would it? I mean, no one ever underreports their income to the federal government for financial advantage, do they?

Man, this just gets better and better.
The Obama administration just opened up another can of worms... oh boy. You'd figure with the Democrats trying to get this thing passed when it was being worked out, they'd make it comprehensive and easy to understand like the Canada Health Act.

And they would have to sense to gradually integrate it in, instead of half-assing it and making it hard to understand. It's just another mess. The prices jump up and there's not nearly enough time to get the changes implemented properly without major snafus.

I won't deny there have been a few advantages to Obamacare, but they're overwhelmed by the negatives.

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Old 07-16-2013, 12:15 PM   #125
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Default Re: Affordable Care Act: Real Reform or More Bureaucracy?

Looks like the honeymoon is over....

Labor Unions: Obamacare Will 'Shatter' Our Health Benefits, Cause 'Nightmare Scenarios'

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Last Thursday, representatives of three of the nation’s largest unions fired off a letter to Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, warning that Obamacare would “shatter not only our hard-earned health benefits, but destroy the foundation of the 40 hour work week that is the backbone of the American middle class.”

The letter was penned by James P. Hoffa, general president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters; Joseph Hansen, international president of the United Food and Commercial Workers International Union; and Donald “D.” Taylor, president of UNITE-HERE, a union representing hotel, airport, food service, gaming, and textile workers.

“The unintended consequences of the ACA are severe,” they continue. “Perverse incentives are causing nightmare scenarios. First, the law creates an incentive for employers to keep employees’ work hours below 30 hours a week. Numerous employers have begun to cut workers’ hours to avoid this obligation, and many of them are doing so openly. The impact is two-fold: fewer hours means less pay while also losing our current health benefits.”

“When you and the President sought our support for the Affordable Care Act,” they begin, “you pledged that if we liked the health plans we have now, we could keep them. Sadly, that promise is under threat…We have been strong supporters of the notion that all Americans should have access to quality, affordable health care. We have also been strong supporters of you. In campaign after campaign we have put boots on the ground, gone door-to-door to get out the vote, run phone banks and raised money to secure this vision. Now this vision has come back to haunt us.”

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