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Old 02-16-2013, 09:27 PM   #251
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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Originally Posted by Kal-El.9859 View Post
Do you wear a suit and tie all day? You wear a shirt that's too big, a coat that's too big and you can cover that up...
Assuming he could find a coat that's so large that the shape of the cape attachment wouldn't show up, he'd draw attention to himself, which would defeat the purpose of the disguise.

Are we talking about the MOS suit or the classic suit here? Because if it's the latter, I'm not disagreeing with you.

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They are pretty much telling us that we are stupid and have no imagination at all these days....
Or that they respect you enough to not just assume you'll be willing to accept everything they throw at you.

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it's sad that people have become so obsessed with having all movies be realistic.
Yeah, it's really done so much harm to the genre.

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Old 02-16-2013, 09:29 PM   #252
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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Assuming he could find a coat that's so large that the shape of the cape attachment wouldn't show up, he'd draw attention to himself, which would defeat the purpose of the disguise.

Are we talking about the MOS suit or the classic suit here? Because if it's the latter, I'm not disagreeing with you.



Or that they respect you enough to not just assume you'll be willing to accept everything they throw at you.



Yeah, it's really done so much harm to the genre.


seeing that I know plenty of LARGE men who wear suits and ties all day I don't think Clark would have a problem finding a large suit and coat to wear. And I think he could hide both...one a lot more easier than the other, but it can be done

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Old 02-16-2013, 09:31 PM   #253
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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It's a superhero movie. Superheros wear costumes. That's a genre convention that doesn't defy logic because it's one of the very things the logic of the film is built around. It doesn't matter if no one would wear those costumes in the real world; it just has to make sense in the world the characters exist in.
and yet a man who cant be killed with bullets, flies, can survive in space, and has super strength, does defy logic.

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Like I said: I consider Superman to be more sci-fi than fantasy.
and i dont.
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And again: considering this movie is trying to ground Superman in the real world...you kinda do.
then that's the directors fault for trying to force a fantasy character into the real world.
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I'd agree with you if we were discussing about them going into explicit detail about his abilities.
it's not just his abilities... its everything that is Superman. Superman is PURE fantasy. there's nothing realistic about him.
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That's nice. But STM isn't MOS.
and there's your problem.
Donner knew how to make it work. I'm not sure Snyder does. sure he can make a pretty movie, but that alone doesnt cut it.

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Such an explanation wouldn't be complicated at all.
go ask a kid how Superman hides his costume. his answer will be "he hides it under his clothes", not this nano-technology mumbo-jumbo.

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Old 02-16-2013, 09:33 PM   #254
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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well, i dont hold that against you. i hold that against those who are making the movie
Fair enough, I guess.

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it worked for 70 years, and it still works today.
Then we agree.

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then the logic of the film is trying to shoehorn something into the character that shouldn't be so hard-pressed into it to begin with.
Or it's doing something different (and arguably necessary) in an attempt to make the character popular again.

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on that, i see it as a cheap way of getting rid of classic and traditional elements that makes Superman...
I don't see how. Superman isn't defined by how he does or doesn't put his suit on.

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Superman doesnt need a super-scientific suit with nano-technology and for it to appear out of thin air... that makes it way too complicated.
Except it's not complicated at all.

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Old 02-16-2013, 09:34 PM   #255
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

I consider Superman to be BOTH sci-fi AND fantasy...there are science fiction elements to Superman, but to me, for the majority of him, I find him to be fantasy based.

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Old 02-16-2013, 09:37 PM   #256
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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and yet a man who cant be killed with bullets, flies, can survive in space, and has super strength, does defy logic.
Yes it does. But it makes sense in the world the character exists in.

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and i dont.
Fair enough.

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then that's the directors fault for trying to force a fantasy character into the real world.
Which isn't a bad thing.

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it's not just his abilities... its everything that is Superman. Superman is PURE fantasy. there's nothing realistic about him.
We agree. Like I said: it's the world around him that's realistic.

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and there's your problem.
I'd hardly call Snyder not wanting to rip off STM a "problem."

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Donner knew how to make it work.
He knew of one way to make it work, yes.

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go ask a kid how Superman hides his costume. his answer will be "he hides it under his clothes", not this nano-technology mumbo-jumbo.
Don't see how that's relevant. Ask a kid what Superman wears. He'll say red underwear. That's no longer true now, is it?

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Old 02-16-2013, 09:37 PM   #257
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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Yeah, it's really done so much harm to the genre.
you wanna know why the 80's had such amazing fantasy movies?... its because they werent obsessed with making everything realistic, like they are today. they wanted to make fantasy, to awe and woo the genre's audience. You'll never see movies like Legend, the Labyrinth, The Dark Crystal, etc in today's society.

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Old 02-16-2013, 09:40 PM   #258
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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you wanna know why the 80's had such amazing fantasy movies?
No, I don't. Because it's not the 80's anymore.

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...its because they werent obsessed with making everything realistic, like they are today. they wanted to make fantasy, to awe and woo the genre's audience.
You can still do that with a realistic movie. I'm sure plenty of people were wooing and awwing at the last couple Batman movies.

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You'll never see movies like Legend, the Labyrinth, The Dark Crystal, etc in today's society.
Sure you can, if a director crafts a world that's meant to be blatant fantasy.

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Old 02-16-2013, 09:45 PM   #259
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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Yes it is. But it makes sense in the world the character exists in.
yes it does make sense in that fantasy world... in our world, no it would not.
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Which isn't a bad thing.
it is when you change the genre of a character.
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I'd hardly call Snyder not wanting to rip off STM a "problem."
i never said to rip off Donner. but he did stay true to the character in every aspect. costume included.
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He knew of one way to make it work, yes.
and no one else has done a job as beautiful as he has, because he chose to stay completely faithful to the character
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Don't see how that's relevant. Ask a kid what Superman wears. He'll say red underwear. That's no longer true now, is it?
just goes to show that neither DC Comics, Warner Brothers, Zack Snyder, or Richard Donner can tell a kid what or who Superman is to them. my beef is with the current image taking away the fantasy element of Superman and relying solely upon the science fiction element... Jon Peters tried that, and a movie never got made. the only reason this one is getting made now is because of the success of Nolan and Batman. only time will tell if this interpretation of Superman will be successful... and if it is, i'll be happy. i wont be happy about the costume, but i will be happy that Superman is out of his slump.

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Old 02-16-2013, 09:49 PM   #260
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

I'm pretty sure Superman was meant to be blatantly fantasy...

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Old 02-16-2013, 09:50 PM   #261
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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I'm pretty sure Superman was meant to be blatantly fantasy...
im positive that Superman was meant to be blatant fantasy... look at how the Superman franchise began. it wasn't until they rebooted him that he got this sci-fi element added to him

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Old 02-16-2013, 09:54 PM   #262
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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yes it does make sense in that fantasy world... in our world, no it would not.
I don't feel like repeating myself again.

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it is when you change the genre of a character.
Which isn't what they're doing.

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i never said to rip off Donner. but he did stay true to the character in every aspect. costume included.
In what way? Because as I recall, he changed some stuff too.

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and no one else has done a job as beautiful as he has, because he chose to stay completely faithful to the character
No one else has really tried to do anything differently while at the same time making a quality film.

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just goes to show that neither DC Comics, Warner Brothers, Zack Snyder, or Richard Donner can tell a kid what or who Superman is to them.
Superman is many things to many people. You can't speak for every child on Earth. Snyder is trying to tell those kids who think Superman is the most boring character ever that he can be cool and interesting. Is he wrong for that?

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my beef is with the current image taking away the fantasy element of Superman and relying solely upon the science fiction element... Jon Peters tried that, and a movie never got made.
And Singer tried to be just like Donner...now look where we are.

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Old 02-16-2013, 09:55 PM   #263
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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im positive that Superman was meant to be blatant fantasy... look at how the Superman franchise began. it wasn't until they rebooted him that he got this sci-fi element added to him
Well I'm still certain this movie is gonna do amazingly well...it'll blow my socks off. I just wish they had more of a fantasy element to it....but we may see it after all if they get Justice League up and going

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Old 02-16-2013, 09:56 PM   #264
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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I'm pretty sure Superman was meant to be blatantly fantasy...
And I'm pretty sure that he's changed and evolved over time and a part of that change was switching over into more sci-fi territory.

Not to say that he isn't the least bit a fantasy character, because he certainly is, but again, I think he's more sci-fi.

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Old 02-16-2013, 09:59 PM   #265
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

Well I guess that's where you a tons of other fans differ....I see him as more fantasy than sci-fi. I HATE this New52BS

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Old 02-16-2013, 10:05 PM   #266
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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Well I guess that's where you a tons of other fans differ....
I don't care.

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I see him as more fantasy than sci-fi. I HATE this New52BS
That's your prerogative. I don't really care about the New 52 either.

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Old 02-16-2013, 10:07 PM   #267
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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And Singer tried to be just like Donner...now look where we are.
Singer tried to do more than be just like Donner... he copied Donner in more ways than one, story flow wise, line wise, scene wise, etc... but one thing that singer failed miserably on is the visual outlook of Superman. Donner made Superman a visual beacon of hope, and thats what Superman is... whereas Singer made him very dull and dirty.

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Superman is many things to many people. You can't speak for every child on Earth. Snyder is trying to tell those kids who think Superman is the most boring character ever that he can be cool and interesting. Is he wrong for that?
i never said i did speak for every child. there's nothing wrong with trying to make a comic book character cool and interesting again... it was easy with Batman because he is more of a believable character, whereas Superman Superman is more difficult. He is not realistic. He is fantasy. my entire point is do not change the core elements of the character for the sake of making him popular, and that includes the costume... Peters tried to do that with a "jaded audience", and it didnt sell.

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Old 02-16-2013, 10:13 PM   #268
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

I see nothing wrong with the costume, but I don't believe that it should be nanotech....I mean let's not explain everything away. I don't wanna know why or how he flies, shoots beams of heat out his eyes, why bullets bounce off him and so on and so forth...

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Old 02-16-2013, 10:14 PM   #269
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

I bet cha we won't see zod and co floating in space in that silly piece of glass in MOS.

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Old 02-16-2013, 10:19 PM   #270
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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I bet cha we won't see zod and co floating in space in that silly piece of glass in MOS.
I bet you're right

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Old 02-16-2013, 10:21 PM   #271
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

for the time that movie came out, that effect was absolutely amazing, and i have enormous respect for the creators and developers who put their time and effort into making that without CG... but yeah, you're right, there's a good chance we wont see that in MoS, and personally, i hope we dont see it

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Old 02-16-2013, 10:32 PM   #272
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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i never said i did speak for every child. there's nothing wrong with trying to make a comic book character cool and interesting again... it was easy with Batman because he is more of a believable character, whereas Superman Superman is more difficult. He is not realistic. He is fantasy. my entire point is do not change the core elements of the character for the sake of making him popular, and that includes the costume... Peters tried to do that with a "jaded audience", and it didnt sell.
There's no point in continuing this, so we'll just have to agree to disagree, my friend. No matter what happens, I hope you enjoy the film.

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I see nothing wrong with the costume, but I don't believe that it should be nanotech....
I'm not for or against nanotech, but I believe it'd make more sense than wearing it under a business suit.

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I mean let's not explain everything away. I don't wanna know why or how he flies, shoots beams of heat out his eyes, why bullets bounce off him and so on and so forth...
No one was asking for that, so...

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Old 02-17-2013, 03:43 AM   #273
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuljCWV6gLU Nano Tech

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Old 02-17-2013, 06:27 AM   #274
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

The only difference in terms of 'realism', between 'hiding-the-suit-under-his-clothes' and 'nanotech suit' is that most human beings can properly argue about the former, and can't or wouldn't bother trying to argue the latter.

I'd prefer the traditional. Some people always beat the 'not defined by' drum to excuse something being changed or deleted etc....... Well a piece of steak is not defined by it's spices, but hell it's not a good steak without them.

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Old 02-17-2013, 06:29 AM   #275
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

I can buy the suit been nanotechnology but not the cape, tbh I think the best way to avoid this is just don't tell us how, you don't have to explain everything.

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