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Old 04-05-2013, 08:11 AM   #651
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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Originally Posted by Greeneyes View Post
The costume has changed with every decade right from the start and will continue to do so. Which design are you saying is the 75 year old one that has to remain the same and be unchanged?
OK, maybe not quite 75. But when I think Superman, I see this.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:



Sure different artists and TV and movie people have changed the shading, and the way the cape's attached, and little things like that. And yes he changed the yellow to black in the wake of the Imperiex war, and then there were the Superman Red, Superman Blue suits. But overall, that basic design has remained the same as far as I know. It's only in the last decade that Bryan Singer and the DC artists and the MoS people have seen fit to drastically alter the colour scheme and/or design.

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Old 04-05-2013, 08:38 AM   #652
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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OK, maybe not quite 75. But when I think Superman, I see this.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:



Sure different artists and TV and movie people have changed the shading, and the way the cape's attached, and little things like that. And yes he changed the yellow to black in the wake of the Imperiex war, and then there were the Superman Red, Superman Blue suits. But overall, that basic design has remained the same as far as I know. It's only in the last decade that Bryan Singer and the DC artists and the MoS people have seen fit to drastically alter the colour scheme and/or design.

I fully understand where you are coming from,but times have changed drastically since the 70's and 80's and onwards,they have to modernise things or at least try to update a little to keep pace with all the other characters who have updated successfully as well over time.

Snyder himself said only recently that they looked at hundreds of designs for the suit and it took them six months or so to decide on the final design and he wanted to keep the trunks,but in the end they couldn't find a way to make them work and had to change a few things.I'm sure when we see the Blu Ray extras and hopefully get a look at a few early versions of the MOS suit designs we will see what he meant and why they went with what they have. As far as the comics go I think they need to have a more classic look,I'm not that keen on the new 52 suits but as far as live action goes I think we need to trust what they are doing for now and wait and see the film before we say they have destroyed Supermans look. If he will never change with the times he dies..simple as that,his character and values of what makes him Superman will always be there,that's what makes him Superman,not if he has trunks or not.

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Old 04-05-2013, 08:51 AM   #653
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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I fully understand where you are coming from,but times have changed drastically since the 70's and 80's and onwards,they have to modernise things or at least try to update a little to keep pace with all the other characters who have updated successfully as well over time.

Snyder himself said only recently that they looked at hundreds of designs for the suit and it took them six months or so to decide on the final design and he wanted to keep the trunks,but in the end they couldn't find a way to make them work and had to change a few things.I'm sure when we see the Blu Ray extras and hopefully get a look at a few early versions of the MOS suit designs we will see what he meant and why they went with what they have. As far as the comics go I think they need to have a more classic look,I'm not that keen on the new 52 suits but as far as live action goes I think we need to trust what they are doing for now and wait and see the film before we say they have destroyed Supermans look. If he will never change with the times he dies..simple as that,his character and values of what makes him Superman will always be there,that's what makes him Superman,not if he has trunks or not.
I think this is important to note. When he says that he couldn't make it work, I feel like he meant that he couldn't make it work in his film - the story, the mythos, the aesthetic design. I don't think he means to say that the trunks in general don't work. It worked for every other iteration of Superman in the past (including SR), I just think he was speaking specifically to MOS and its qualities.

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Old 04-05-2013, 09:02 AM   #654
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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I think this is important to note. When he says that he couldn't make it work, I feel like he meant that he couldn't make it work in his film - the story, the mythos, the aesthetic design. I don't think he means to say that the trunks in general don't work. It worked for every other iteration of Superman in the past (including SR), I just think he was speaking specifically to MOS and its qualities.

Yeah,agreed. Snyder has my trust at the moment

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Old 04-05-2013, 09:53 AM   #655
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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I think this is important to note. When he says that he couldn't make it work, I feel like he meant that he couldn't make it work in his film - the story, the mythos, the aesthetic design. I don't think he means to say that the trunks in general don't work. It worked for every other iteration of Superman in the past (including SR), I just think he was speaking specifically to MOS and its qualities.
I read the statement as a very political one. In the original quote, it seems pretty obvious that he wanted the classic design, but it didn't work out/the studio execs said "no damn red underwear!" Take into account Snyder's other works: he's usually something of a stickler for comicbook accuracy. Why would MOS be any different unless, being the massive movie that it is, the WB brass has to make it "modern" as possible. He's being very PC about the whole situation.

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Old 04-05-2013, 10:00 AM   #656
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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I read the statement as a very political one. In the original quote, it seems pretty obvious that he wanted the classic design, but it didn't work out/the studio execs said "no damn red underwear!" Take into account Snyder's other works: he's usually something of a stickler for comicbook accuracy. Why would MOS be any different unless, being the massive movie that it is, the WB brass has to make it "modern" as possible. He's being very PC about the whole situation.
Yeah, that probably is at the heart of this.

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Old 04-05-2013, 12:18 PM   #657
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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I read the statement as a very political one. In the original quote, it seems pretty obvious that he wanted the classic design, but it didn't work out/the studio execs said "no damn red underwear!" Take into account Snyder's other works: he's usually something of a stickler for comicbook accuracy. Why would MOS be any different unless, being the massive movie that it is, the WB brass has to make it "modern" as possible. He's being very PC about the whole situation.
Maybe… But Snyder described looking at numerous concepts for a suit w/ trunks (which were ultimately rejected). But professional illustrators and costume designers don’t come cheap. If WB was adamantly against the trunks from the get-go, they wasted their own money in allowing Snyder to explore the w/trunks options.

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Old 04-05-2013, 12:41 PM   #658
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

Maybe he was just lying.

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Old 04-05-2013, 01:40 PM   #659
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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Maybe… But Snyder described looking at numerous concepts for a suit w/ trunks (which were ultimately rejected). But professional illustrators and costume designers don’t come cheap. If WB was adamantly against the trunks from the get-go, they wasted their own money in allowing Snyder to explore the w/trunks options.
That stuff's a drop in the bucket as far as the budget is concerned. Every film like this produces large amounts of concept art. That's not wasting money, it's standard procedure.

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Old 04-05-2013, 02:03 PM   #660
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

There is an earlier interview with one of the costume illustrators in which he said the suit looked to earth-born with the trunks; and hence, since it's alien origin was to be accentuated, they were excluded.

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Old 04-05-2013, 02:14 PM   #661
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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That stuff's a drop in the bucket as far as the budget is concerned. Every film like this produces large amounts of concept art. That's not wasting money, it's standard procedure.
Exactly. Anyone that thinks every bit of production artwork ends up translated to the screen 1:1 is fooling themselves. There's an immense amount of trial and error and exploration to get to the final versions of everything in the film, especially genre films with large budgets like "Man of Steel."

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Old 04-05-2013, 02:44 PM   #662
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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That stuff's a drop in the bucket as far as the budget is concerned. Every film like this produces large amounts of concept art. That's not wasting money, it's standard procedure.
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Originally Posted by Zorex View Post
Exactly. Anyone that thinks every bit of production artwork ends up translated to the screen 1:1 is fooling themselves. There's an immense amount of trial and error and exploration to get to the final versions of everything in the film, especially genre films with large budgets like "Man of Steel."
Yes, yes. For example, several sketches of Lois’s wardrobe were no doubt created with the understanding that not all would be chosen. And that is standard, part of the creative process. But the contention here was that WB head office might have issued a firm “no trunks” edict from day one (perhaps for consistency with the N52, perhaps because of the lawsuit, or perhaps…etc.). And if that’s the case, commissioning designs w/trunks would be utterly pointless. It be like spending time, effort and money on concept drawings for Supes’ “super car” - knowing that no such vehicle would be in the movie.

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Old 04-05-2013, 02:49 PM   #663
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

It's possible that they were willing to allow him to convince them otherwise.

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Old 04-05-2013, 03:21 PM   #664
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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Yes, yes. For example, several sketches of Lois’s wardrobe were no doubt created with the understanding that not all would be chosen. And that is standard, part of the creative process. But the contention here was that WB head office might have issued a firm “no trunks” edict from day one (perhaps for consistency with the N52, perhaps because of the lawsuit, or perhaps…etc.). And if that’s the case, commissioning designs w/trunks would be utterly pointless. It be like spending time, effort and money on concept drawings for Supes’ “super car” - knowing that no such vehicle would be in the movie.
There's a lot of work done in the entertainment industry that everyone knows won't get chosen, won't get aired, won't get filmed, but sometimes you just have to do it anyway. Sometimes, it just has to be done to show higher ups that, no it can't work or yes, it can work. Considering that the trunks, universally appreciated or not, have been part of the costume since the beginning, I think it would have been obvious to the entire production to at least try some designs to see if they could work in the context of the film. I doubt WB would have handed down an edict saying "don't you dare even try to make it work!" It's pre-production. Tons of stuff is going to get tried just for the sake of showing, see? That won't work. That's not the right direction. Now we have an example of why it won't work. We learn from that, and move forward.

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Old 04-05-2013, 03:35 PM   #665
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

yes i am in a little bit of anticipation for this upcoming movie, but I'ms till waiting for them to make a period piece for superman... i've said this before, but I'l say it again, the one interpretation we have yet to see in this day and age (honestly, i think it should be remembered), is the Fleischer design!

do you realize how amazing that movie could be, even to show him transitioning from simply leaping tall buildings to straight out flying? the closest thing we came to that was that animated movie- and personally, it looked horrible to me.

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Old 04-05-2013, 05:10 PM   #666
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

In all the time I've been reading this thread, which feels like a long time, Dr. has never failed to absolutely dominate it.

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Old 04-05-2013, 05:22 PM   #667
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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There's a lot of work done in the entertainment industry that everyone knows won't get chosen, won't get aired, won't get filmed, but sometimes you just have to do it anyway. Sometimes, it just has to be done to show higher ups that, no it can't work or yes, it can work. Considering that the trunks, universally appreciated or not, have been part of the costume since the beginning, I think it would have been obvious to the entire production to at least try some designs to see if they could work in the context of the film. I doubt WB would have handed down an edict saying "don't you dare even try to make it work!" It's pre-production. Tons of stuff is going to get tried just for the sake of showing, see? That won't work. That's not the right direction. Now we have an example of why it won't work. We learn from that, and move forward.
makes sense

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Old 04-05-2013, 11:38 PM   #668
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

As much as I like the MOS suit, the classic suit will always be the definitve look of Superman.

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Old 04-05-2013, 11:39 PM   #669
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

i wholeheartedly agree

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Old 04-06-2013, 01:47 AM   #670
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

Well it's random, but it's suit-related, so I figured why not?

Apparently one of the lines from the new trailer "leaked" and it got me thinking about the crest:

"It's not an 'S'. Where I'm from, it's a symbol of hope."

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I like that line. It's very matter-of-fact, and actually makes a point I've been wanting to make for a long time.

The actual glyph "S" would be a common symbol in any culture, terrestrial or extraterrestrial. It's simple and can have a wide variety of influences (water, smoke, certain animals) but maybe for the Kryptonians, the "hope" definition (at least in terms of the full "crest" ) is a very simple iconographic representation of one hand holding another, which would make a roughly "S" like shape, and Jor-El adopted it as his family crest?

There's also another explanation in The Last Days of Krypton by Kevin J. Anderson I believe, that the symbol was also derived from an ancient Kryptonian fable about a snake in a crystal. I like mine better

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Old 04-06-2013, 07:46 AM   #671
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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Well it's random, but it's suit-related, so I figured why not?

Apparently one of the lines from the new trailer "leaked" and it got me thinking about the crest:

"It's not an 'S'. Where I'm from, it's a symbol of hope."
Perhaps the line (if it’s real) works better in context. But on paper it seems a tad awkward and pedantic (Supes correcting someone (Lois?) who’s made a mistake.) In the first place, the symbol certainly looks like an “S” - so it's nitpicky to dispute that. In the second, meta-textually, it actually was an “S” for a long time. I would have omitted the correction (have it implied) and just gone with “It’s a symbol of hope.”

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Old 04-07-2013, 02:42 AM   #672
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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Perhaps the line (if it’s real) works better in context. But on paper it seems a tad awkward and pedantic (Supes correcting someone (Lois?) who’s made a mistake.) In the first place, the symbol certainly looks like an “S” - so it's nitpicky to dispute that. In the second, meta-textually, it actually was an “S” for a long time. I would have omitted the correction (have it implied) and just gone with “It’s a symbol of hope.”
I think it all depends on how the line is delivered, personally.

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Old 04-07-2013, 02:59 AM   #673
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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Perhaps the line (if it’s real) works better in context. But on paper it seems a tad awkward and pedantic (Supes correcting someone (Lois?) who’s made a mistake.) In the first place, the symbol certainly looks like an “S” - so it's nitpicky to dispute that. In the second, meta-textually, it actually was an “S” for a long time. I would have omitted the correction (have it implied) and just gone with “It’s a symbol of hope.”
Perhaps the delivery will make it work. And the situation.

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Old 04-07-2013, 05:20 AM   #674
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

With the leaked description of the last trailer, I thought the line 'What was I supposed to do, let them die?' Followed by 'Maybe' sounded too cheesy to be real, but in context, on film, spoken, it was great. I bear that in mind now when I read stuff that isn't meant to be read but spoken.

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Old 04-07-2013, 05:21 PM   #675
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

So, does anyone else think that Superman will have a suit of armor in this movie? I remember seeing a toy mock-up where Superman had armor covering one of his arms.

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