From SHH with Love: The Relationship Thread

[Nave 'Torment']

Originally Posted by amazingfantasy15

This could be a very big part of what's going on. Neediness is probably one of the least attractive traits someone can show to a partner.

Strange how I always find that attractive in a woman.

Originally Posted by Anita18

I don't know what that means either.

IMO being mature with people means considering their wants and needs, while giving them space.

Not one bit. She may seem like she's more "experienced" (partying and doing pot or whatnot) and less uptight, but that doesn't translate to maturity. I'm more mature than my fiance in a lot of ways, and I haven't experienced things he has.

Thank you. I am considering her wants and needs. I think the problem of maturity strikes when I start to disregard my own. There's just a lot that needs to be done right now; everyone -- including my friends -- say I'm too judgmental. And that I'm too sincere. I'm sorry but I thought those were positive, adult qualities?? Judgmental is a harsh word, yes, but comes out of principles, some of which may be faulty on my own but I'm trying to do better by them. I am, for one thing, admitting to the things I do see wrong in me. And an experience means nothing if you don't actually learn from it.

Let her go. If she wants to come back, she will. But you have to let her make the decision, and give her the space to prove herself to you too. Her promising to change and then not making the effort also does you no good. It just seems way too one-sided right now.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_

Yeah, gonna have to co-sign this. There's [probably] way more important things in your life than her, and if you (Nave) feel otherwise, well then you need to shift your focus elsewhere. Bottom line, the reason neediness is so unattractive is because is this is 'the real thing' then you kind of have to be independent and able to go after what you want because things like a career, a house and a child are going to end up taking precedent over waiting on her hand and foot.

About the whole "real thing" business -- again, it's not something that's written down in Fate or whatever. People find things that are relatable and then they work from there. They make it "the real thing." Like I've said before, this is the last week. I'm giving her till her birthday and I want her to make the decision of whether she wants to be with me or not. I know this is just bad timing for both of us but she genuinely wants to make it work.

And I've got way too much on my plate right now as it is. It's a good thing that I suffered through the week, made me realize how much I care for her and how much I can't stand losing her... but hell, if that happens I know how to keep myself steady and not go into a pitfall again. Too much failures on my end. I'll be picking myself up. Starting now.

[A Necessary Evil]

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_

Frankly I tend not to think about it. If you're one of those who has a tally of the girls that have rejected you, then you honestly probably are fixating on one or two women until you're absolutely certain it's a dead end, which frankly is a complete waste of time.

I tend to forget most women who reject me even before I probably realize I've been rejected; my mind has already wandered off to the next thing. There are more important things in my life after all.

When you say rejected what do you mean?

Do you ask them out, they say yes and then flake out? There's a couple ways to handle that.

Or is it more you try really hard to be noticed rather than asking them out or for a phone number (at least) and then just get frustrated?

I wouldn't exactly consider the latter rejection.

It's normally the former. I've actually had girls say yes they like me, but then once I ask them out they tend to say "I think our friendship should just be kept at that." Every time.

Originally Posted by Anita18

If online dating isn't working for you (bonus, it's easy to lose track of who's rejected you ), try to find something where you'll find people who share interests. My cousin and my sister met their SOs swing dancing, and my best friend met her husband in tae kwon do. It takes the pressure off, because you'll be having fun anyway, and you don't have to worry about first impressions because you'll be spending some time together anyway.

I've tried that approach too, not many girls I know or have met like that kind of stuff (Comics, Star Wars, etc. They think it's stupid.

[Anubis]

Stop asking "Do you like me?" Ask "Do you want to do me?"

[Erzengel]

Originally Posted by A Necessary Evil

I've tried that approach too, not many girls I know or have met like that kind of stuff (Comics, Star Wars, etc. They think it's stupid.

I hate to disappoint you....but usually the best you are going to get is someone who tolerates it.

[Optimus_Prime_]

Originally Posted by A Necessary Evil

It's normally the former. I've actually had girls say yes they like me, but then once I ask them out they tend to say "I think our friendship should just be kept at that." Every time.



I've tried that approach too, not many girls I know or have met like that kind of stuff (Comics, Star Wars, etc. They think it's stupid.

Yeah, don't talk to them about comics...or Football...definitely not Star Wars. First of all most girls who flaunt how big they are into comics are just trying to show for the boys. Flirting for the sake of flirting. I watch Star Wars so much I'm probably gonna watch it just cause I typed this sentence but I show the proper amount of shame not to talk about that in public.

Women like make up, and thinking they look cute, and talking about other women they don't like but they're forced to work with. They like to flirt with boys because it makes them feel good. Your love of Yoda and Babylon Five doesn't really speak to them emotionally.

Ask them about feelings and stuff, they like that.

Just sounds like you project a bunch of crap at them.

Like, just a simple question, do you ever make a sex joke in front of a girl? Or make causal remarks about being a heterosexual guy? Or do you obfuscate the whole affair by trying to win her over droning on about Star Wars.

Like Erz says most just tolerate that sh**.

[Anita18]

Originally Posted by Nave 'Torment'

But y'know what makes all that objectivity moot? The fact that I am in love. That she was as well. Do you really need anything else to test that compatibility? I mean, if you really care about someone, if the incentive is to just be with each other, then you are willing to make everything else work no matter what, yes? That's got to be the ultimate test of compatibility...

Atleast ideally. Or am I being too "immature" when I say that?

Um, yes?

My coworker loved her husband when she married him. She still does, to a point. And he probably loves her. But he doesn't respect her. It's a strange thing. They have completely different ideas as to what she should be doing, because he's far more traditional than she is. He wants her to stay home and take care of the kids. She's gunning for medical school. You see how that is simply incompatible and just not going to work on a basic level, even if both people love each other?

There are certain "incompatibilities" you can work with. I'm a night owl. My fiance is an early sleeper. That's pretty easy to get around. But one person literally believing the other person SHOULD give up their dreams...that's a huge issue and cannot be solved by love alone.

And obviously if one person no longer loves you and doesn't want to work on nurturing that love, I don't think your "love conquers everything!" mantra works either. That love has to mutually exist for the relationship to have a prayer.

Originally Posted by Nave 'Torment'

I work best on my own, I work better when I tell people exactly what I feel like even when it's not the most popular thing to say. It takes a while for me to just say "no" to things. I'm Mr. Nice Guy. Even my 10 year old cousin thinks so.

But the more I see it the more I think I'm not... really... a nice person. At least I'm not exactly functioning well here. If this was back in Virginia I know for a fact that I'd be much more expressive and comfortable with myself. I was like that back there. Here I just feel awkward and out of place and like someone who just never got the memo. It got worse after getting rejected from the colleges I always wanted to go to.

I do think there are a lot of unspoken "rules" you have to consider when in a conservative place like Bangladesh. I kind of know what you mean - I was raised to always think about what other people would think of me, because it's very typical for Chinese people. I said "Screw it!" a little while ago and let it all hang out. I think people only like me because I'm honestly nice and earnest, even if I'm a bit in-your-face now in class.

But seriously dude, let goooo of that whole educational identity stuff. It's not helping you. It'll always make you feel inferior.

Originally Posted by Nave 'Torment'

Like I said, it's not really an issue that's impossible to amend, but it's taking time and longer than most. And by the time I'll be over it there will be a lot of things that I'll regret. Like if this girl realizes she has to dump me because of my introverted qualities, by the time I get over them it'd be too late with her. That's something I don't want.

I honestly don't think she'd dump you because of your introverted qualities. It's honestly rarely that in a serious relationship, and it's the superficial person who dumps a partner because they "can't go out with them." If I want to go somewhere my fiance doesn't, I just go by my damn self! I don't feel like I "have" to dump him because he won't try anything new. There's a whole lot that he's giving me past "warm body following me around." My sister's bf is the same - he didn't show up to either Thanksgiving or Christmas because he had to work, and it wasn't a big deal to anybody. She didn't threaten to break up with him because he was a party pooper.

It seems to me that her relationship with her parents is the biggest thing, and her own insecurities as well as your own. THOSE are relationship killers. Not plain old introvertedness or social awkwardness.

Originally Posted by Nave 'Torment'

Strange how I always find that attractive in a woman.

That only shows how insecure you are as well. Neediness is a novelty, but lemme tell you, it gets old REALLY fast. Especially when you have all this other stuff happening to you out in the real world.

Originally Posted by Nave 'Torment'

Thank you. I am considering her wants and needs. I think the problem of maturity strikes when I start to disregard my own. There's just a lot that needs to be done right now; everyone -- including my friends -- say I'm too judgmental. And that I'm too sincere. I'm sorry but I thought those were positive, adult qualities?? Judgmental is a harsh word, yes, but comes out of principles, some of which may be faulty on my own but I'm trying to do better by them. I am, for one thing, admitting to the things I do see wrong in me. And an experience means nothing if you don't actually learn from it.

Having principles I think is different from being judgmental. I have strong principles, but I hold myself to them. Not anyone else.

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_

Yeah, don't talk to them about comics...or Football...definitely not Star Wars. First of all most girls who flaunt how big they are into comics are just trying to show for the boys. Flirting for the sake of flirting. I watch Star Wars so much I'm probably gonna watch it just cause I typed this sentence but I show the proper amount of shame not to talk about that in public.

Women like make up, and thinking they look cute, and talking about other women they don't like but they're forced to work with. They like to flirt with boys because it makes them feel good. Your love of Yoda and Babylon Five doesn't really speak to them emotionally.

Ask them about feelings and stuff, they like that.

Just sounds like you project a bunch of crap at them.

Like, just a simple question, do you ever make a sex joke in front of a girl? Or make causal remarks about being a heterosexual guy? Or do you obfuscate the whole affair by trying to win her over droning on about Star Wars.

Like Erz says most just tolerate that sh**.

That's hilarious, because I don't have ANY female friends like that. But yes, if you want a "hot girl," of course they'll like make up and flirting. I hang with a geeky crowd. There are plenty of geek girls out there, they're mostly quiet and don't flaunt their "boys must love me!" hotness out on everybody.

[Anita18]

But I agree that a mutual love of comics or whatever, is a fairly superficial trait. My fiance actually only tolerates my love of Batman. But he brings a lot of things to the table for me, and I let out all my Batman geekery out on here or Facebook. I don't need him to talk Batman with.

Same for his love of skateboarding. I'm willing to learn more about it, but I don't geek out like he does. He has plenty of friends to geek out about it with, he doesn't need me.

As long as you don't get a girl who threatens to trash your comic collection, you should be good. I think they should be easy to spot - the open-minded, chill, nonjudgmental girls are probably safe.

I think that sometimes, guys try to attract women the wrong way. Proclaiming how big of a geek you are says nothing about your qualities as a partner. Women want guys to be caring, to listen, to be supportive. (Taking care of your appearance doesn't hurt either!) You should project THAT instead of how big of a comic geek you are. Because that matters very little in the long run.

[Erzengel]

Originally Posted by Anita18

That's hilarious, because I don't have ANY female friends like that. But yes, if you want a "hot girl," of course they'll like make up and flirting. I hang with a geeky crowd. There are plenty of geek girls out there, they're mostly quiet and don't flaunt their "boys must love me!" hotness out on everybody.

I know a lot of girls that like to primp and preen.

See their pics when they go out, dressed to the 9s. Always with a different outfit.

However, they do have their own "geeky" interests. A bunch of them went to see the Hunger Games after reading the books.

[A Necessary Evil]

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_

Yeah, don't talk to them about comics...or Football...definitely not Star Wars
Like, just a simple question, do you ever make a sex joke in front of a girl? Or make causal remarks about being a heterosexual guy? Or do you obfuscate the whole affair by trying to win her over droning on about Star Wars.

Like Erz says most just tolerate that sh**.

I don't really do that, lol. Like, occasionally I'll be like "Oh so and so looks awesome, I can't wait" but I don't ramble on about JJ abrams or Nolan or anything like that. I can hold a conversation with a girl. Also, none of the above. I'm too nervous about sex jokes, I don't make any remarks toward my sexuality, and once again, I don't talk about my love of nerdy stuff.

Originally Posted by Anubis

Stop asking "Do you like me?" Ask "Do you want to do me?"

I should, but normally it's the second one I ask.

Originally Posted by Erzengel

I hate to disappoint you....but usually the best you are going to get is someone who tolerates it.

Yup, that was what my first girlfriend (and person I was in love with; actually) did.

[Optimus_Prime_]

Originally Posted by A Necessary Evil

I don't really do that, lol. Like, occasionally I'll be like "Oh so and so looks awesome, I can't wait" but I don't ramble on about JJ abrams or Nolan or anything like that. I can hold a conversation with a girl. Also, none of the above. I'm too nervous about sex jokes, I don't make any remarks toward my sexuality, and once again, I don't talk about my love of nerdy stuff.

Outside, apparently, of Anita's odd group of friends that never seem representative of any societal norms (and believe me all women say 'my friends aren't like that'), they don't even really care you think it looks awesome. They're looking for partner qualities. Are you hard working? Do you work a demanding schedule? Do you goals or aspirations you can talk about? Or like try to notice something like what earrings they are wearing, or what dress they are wearing and comment on that. Believe me, there is a reason why she chose that dress and those earrings, and also believe me, she'll love to give you the thirty minute rendition of why.

The reason I asked if about the sex is this is what I thought you'd say. One of my 'nice guy' friends always used to say girls would think he was gay, all because he was too damn polite. Sex is a commonality and it's "real", it's not Star Wars, just like work, or school or life, or hopes or stress. Yet a lot of guys think "well, I'll just never bring it up but she'll know" or have this roundabout method they try to manipulate the conversation in that direction so she'll bring it up. Not gonna happen.

That's the thing, if you seem like a pretty stable and normal guy on the outside world, and seem focused on your life, no one's gonna care if they come to your house and find Star Wars wall to wall; because at this point they've probably already decided they're hanging with you for other reasons. If you talk about Star Wars and then it's lets go see Star Wars you have relegated yourself to being their Star Wars buddy; not a partner or even a sex partner.

Most people can tell when you're an act. That's why I laugh so hard at pick-up artists (*cough* insecure liars *cough*) because they just drop their 'nice guy' act for a 'jerk' act forgetting the 'act' was the problem to begin with. Some people are good actors though, most are not though, and even good actors kind of exude a natural confidence anyways, so even though they may have no trouble telling women they're a doctor or a war hero the confidence is still genuine. Self-awareness plays a pretty big role there too. If you think you're smart or hot and feel like you can demonstrate that, do that.

Sometimes I joke with girls about other guys they might find cute. It shows a lot of confidence to be able to talk about their sexuality in regards to another person. It's also a good partner skill because you can't spend your life getting butthurt everytime they bring up an ex-boyfriend.

I was joking about something like that a week ago. The girl I was hanging out with was telling me Bill Murray was hitting on her at work that day (he lives nearby), and I was like "you blew off Bill Murray to hang out with me. I dunno, I think you made a mistake, should go hang with Bill Murray, that's what I'd do!".

[SuperMike335!!]

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_

Sometimes I joke with girls about other guys they might find cute. It shows a lot of confidence to be able to talk about their sexuality in regards to another person. It's also a good partner skill because you can't spend your life getting butthurt everytime they bring up an ex-boyfriend.

I was joking about something like that a week ago. The girl I was hanging out with was telling me Bill Murray was hitting on her at work that day (he lives nearby), and I was like "you blew off Bill Murray to hang out with me. I dunno, I think you made a mistake, should go hang with Bill Murray, that's what I'd do!".

^^^ 100% agreed.

I think more guys need to read that.

Nothing makes a guy sound more insecure than having to say something negative to bring another guy down, in order to try and look better himself.

If a girl sees a guy who is really tall and says "wow look how tall he is" and you respond with "height isn't a big deal, I could kick his *** who cares?" it looks like you're insecure.

There is something obvious about a guy who has to step on others to move up the ladder. It shows he's not on top of the ladder.

The ability to speak of another man in a positive light shows that you are not threatened by him.

[Anubis]

Don't hate, congratulate.

[bonoferox]

Edit.

[Anita18]

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_

Outside, apparently, of Anita's odd group of friends that never seem representative of any societal norms (and believe me all women say 'my friends aren't like that'), they don't even really care you think it looks awesome. They're looking for partner qualities. Are you hard working? Do you work a demanding schedule? Do you goals or aspirations you can talk about? Or like try to notice something like what earrings they are wearing, or what dress they are wearing and comment on that. Believe me, there is a reason why she chose that dress and those earrings, and also believe me, she'll love to give you the thirty minute rendition of why.

Yay we agree on something.

Although one time a guy did try to compliment me on my glasses and asked me where I got them, as a 5-second ice-breaker. Didn't work, because I'd had them for years and didn't remember where I got them. It only resulted in me going, "Um, the optometrist's...?" and then he had to find some other awkward lead-in to asking me for my number. So if you don't pick a girly girl, it can result in more awkwardness! Observe and choose your approach wisely!

I will give you the 30-minute rendition of where I got my wedding dress, because I saved soooo much money on it! I'm not sure if that's what guys are expecting when they compliment me on my gotten-from-ebay clothing.

I will also note that barely any husband I know notices their wife's new haircut. (Another coworker, with a great husband, came in one day with her hair above her shoulders. I was like, "Hey, you got a haircut!" She said, "You're the first person who noticed!" "[Hubby] didn't notice?" "No!" ) The only one IIRC who does is my coworker's crap husband. You always know when he's coming over because she comes to work with her hair down and straightened.

I think when women preen, they want to be noticed as generally pretty. But YMMV on your success with complimenting very specific areas. Women may translate that as having to wear/do it all the time so you'll be attracted to them.

Originally Posted by SuperMike335!!

Nothing makes a guy sound more insecure than having to say something negative to bring another guy down, in order to try and look better himself.

If a girl sees a guy who is really tall and says "wow look how tall he is" and you respond with "height isn't a big deal, I could kick his *** who cares?" it looks like you're insecure.

There is something obvious about a guy who has to step on others to move up the ladder. It shows he's not on top of the ladder.

The ability to speak of another man in a positive light shows that you are not threatened by him.

Yup. I do the same with women. When I see a woman with a great butt and short skirt, I'd be all, "She's got a great ass!" to my fiance. Nothing like objectifying people together.

[Erzengel]

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_

Outside, apparently, of Anita's odd group of friends that never seem representative of any societal norms (and believe me all women say 'my friends aren't like that'), they don't even really care you think it looks awesome. They're looking for partner qualities. Are you hard working? Do you work a demanding schedule? Do you goals or aspirations you can talk about? Or like try to notice something like what earrings they are wearing, or what dress they are wearing and comment on that. Believe me, there is a reason why she chose that dress and those earrings, and also believe me, she'll love to give you the thirty minute rendition of why.

It's also an age thing. I think a lot of early twenty something girls don't necessarily care as much about where you live, how much you make, if you are good looking.

Mid twenties/early thirties, I've seen a lot of women settle down with guys who in my opinion weren't racking up the girls in high school/college.

Changing topics, while most rational women won't care that you're into Star Wars, I doubt when you decide to move in/marry she's going to want all six posters displayed in the living room.

[Optimus_Prime_]

Originally Posted by Erzengel

Changing topics, while most rational women won't care that you're into Star Wars, I doubt when you decide to move in/marry she's going to want all six posters displayed in the living room.

Well, I meant initially. As in if she decides she wants to go upstairs, so to speak. If it's your room, she won't care.

Most women that have been over my house so far, for instance, want to hang in my 'man cave' (in fact it's the only place I've had sex thus far). I'm actually not sure why. Maybe they just sense that I'm comfortable in there.

[Erzengel]

Originally Posted by Anita18

I will also note that barely any husband I know notices their wife's new haircut. (Another coworker, with a great husband, came in one day with her hair above her shoulders. I was like, "Hey, you got a haircut!" She said, "You're the first person who noticed!" "[Hubby] didn't notice?" "No!" ) The only one IIRC who does is my coworker's crap husband. You always know when he's coming over because she comes to work with her hair down and straightened.

I think when women preen, they want to be noticed as generally pretty. But YMMV on your success with complimenting very specific areas. Women may translate that as having to wear/do it all the time so you'll be attracted to them.

I notice things and I try to be observant. I know people were always appreciative if I noticed, some new article of clothing, jewelry, hair style etc.

Erzette gets Japanese hair straightening done. When it's done, it's flatter than normal.

[Optimus_Prime_]

I think a lot of people get used to their girl and sometimes that does dull the perception of changes.

[Anita18]

Originally Posted by Erzengel

I notice things and I try to be observant. I know people were always appreciative if I noticed, some new article of clothing, jewelry, hair style etc.

Erzette gets Japanese hair straightening done. When it's done, it's flatter than normal.

Ah, but do you notice it's $200+ straighter than normal?

[CGHulk]

[IMG][/IMG]

[Anita18]

Originally Posted by CGHulk

I hate cut flowers though. So my fiancé will have to think up something else.

[Eggyman]

O Christ, it's too early to read something like that! What's happening to me? Stop it. Stop it.

[Idun]

Originally Posted by Erzengel

It's also an age thing. I think a lot of early twenty something girls don't necessarily care as much about where you live, how much you make, if you are good looking.

Mid twenties/early thirties, I've seen a lot of women settle down with guys who in my opinion weren't racking up the girls in high school/college.

It's about experience I think. Once you get older and you've learned a few things about how the world around you works and how you yourself works, there are a lot of things that matter other than someone having fab abs. Respect, sense of humour, having things in common and intelligence, those are things more attractive in the long run. Plus, even hunks get old eventually. You start asking yourself if this is a man you could live with at 80 because by then it's who that person is that matters, not if girls were swooning over them at 22.

Originally Posted by Erzengel

Changing topics, while most rational women won't care that you're into Star Wars, I doubt when you decide to move in/marry she's going to want all six posters displayed in the living room.

True, but there are always workable compromises. Ordinary Star Wars posters might not work, but blown up Star Wars art could be acceptable. Though I love Star Trek and X-Men, I wouldn't want such posters on my walls. Artwork however would be perfectly fine. I no longer have a teen room, I have a home, therein lies the difference.

[Erzengel]

Originally Posted by Idun

It's about experience I think. Once you get older and you've learned a few things about how the world around you works and how you yourself works, there are a lot of things that matter other than someone having fab abs. Respect, sense of humour, having things in common and intelligence, those are things more attractive in the long run. Plus, even hunks get old eventually. You start asking yourself if this is a man you could live with at 80 because by then it's who that person is that matters, not if girls were swooning over them at 22.

I think a lot of people do some growing up and fawning over the hot bartender and partying all the time isn't practical. Priorities change and security can become a very attractive quality.

However, I'm sure there is a small segment, who sees their friends all start to marry and settle down and create a sense of "panic".

Originally Posted by Idun

True, but there are always workable compromises. Ordinary Star Wars posters might not work, but blown up Star Wars art could be acceptable. Though I love Star Trek and X-Men, I wouldn't want such posters on my walls. Artwork however would be perfectly fine. I no longer have a teen room, I have a home, therein lies the difference.

I always wanted samurai swords over my fire place. That was never going to happen.

[Idun]

Originally Posted by Erzengel

However, I'm sure there is a small segment, who sees their friends all start to marry and settle down and create a sense of "panic".

I have a friend, who when she turned 28, started to tell guys 'Before I even consider sleeping with you I want you to know that I'm looking for a guy who wants the whole package that comes with me. If you get in bed with me you agree to marriage, kids and house and nothing less." She really had that goal in life and was determined to get it. Well, she did, though I often wonder at what cost, since the guy who got on that train is such a cheater.