Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - Part 14

[bullets]

I've just started to read comics again. I thought the Death of the Family story was ok. I wouldn't rank it as one of the best , but I didn't feel let down.


I just saw a possible spoiler for Batman: Incorporated #8 . The cover of the issue has leaked and it could be the death of a major character. I doubt it will actually happen though.

[BlackMagicWolf]

IGN just posted an article about Death of the Family, anyone who felt disappointed should read it. Here's the link.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/...rse-than-death

[Omegabat]

Originally Posted by BlackMagicWolf

IGN just posted an article about Death of the Family, anyone who felt disappointed should read it. Here's the link.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/...rse-than-death

An article written by Snyder's pal Esposito,this arc just sucked simple as that.I'm not one of those guys who thinks a character needs to die in an event but this story accomplished NOTHING on ANY LEVEL whatsoever.It was merely a rehash of the Batman/Joker dynamic written by far superior writers.The only potentially interesting twist Snyder did give to that relationship was the whole Court Jester/King angle and he failed to make anything out of it since he was so interested in telling us that Joker LUUUUURRVES Batman.
Joker cutting off his face was never explained,the tray mystery was just non sense,thankfully I was not emotionally invested in this BS to care about what was in the trays but the fans who spent the month speculating? yeah I can certainly feel their disappointment.The pointless villain cameos also bothered me immensely,Snyder made no secret of the fact that Joker>Penguin,Riddler,Two-Face>rest of Arkham.He had Batman own Clayface,Scarecrow and Freeze almost simultaneously(Jeph Loeb would be proud),what a joke.Then Riddler aka master strategist and escape artist(WTF) who could see dozens of scenarios for a single situation(Snyder must've mistaken him with Deathstroke) was casually disposed off via secret hatch,guess the master strategist never saw that coming .Oswald and Dent were also nowhere to be seen in #17 despite #16 ending on a cliffhanger with both of them sticking around,no explanation was offered for their disappearance.
I also dont understand Jokers endgame,so what WAS his plan? to break the family? if so then didn't Batman himself say in Batman#17 that his family makes him stronger? didn't Batman prove that Joker never cared about their identities? didn't the family overcome the Joker toxin through their love for each other(that was stupid)? so where exactly is the break up? even the Baman and Robin issue shows that Damian has absolutely no problem with how things are.If the Bat family not returning Bruce's calls=break up then I've broken up with my own father a thousand times by now
Snyder apologists should stop making excuses,this arc sucked and it has nothing to do with someone dying or not.

[Oberon sexton]

Originally Posted by Mystirious

But I need my spine

Christopher Reeve seemed to do ok without his

[Scarecrow_King]

IGN never gives anything a bad review. Their reviews are useless.

[Spade]

Not to be vulgar, but...did this issue come with a free BJ? 'Cause after reading that article, that's all I can conclude.

The writer's claim that people are only mad that no one died is a bad straw man made worse when you find out he's friends with Snyder.

[Omegabat]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow_King

IGN never gives anything a bad review. Their reviews are useless.

IGN gives plenty of bad reviews and that's PRECISELY the problem,either it's 9/10 or 3/10.If they dislike something then they'll give it an abysmally low score,if they love then it's the exact opposite.There is absolutely no middle ground.
Reviews should always be objective not subjective,I've liked plenty of crappy comics(Cry for Justice for example) but that doesn't mean I have a right to claim that it's a masterpiece,it's crap plain and simple.

[jonathancrane]

I enjoyed the scene when the Joker invades the police station, and the flashbacks to his first encounter with Batman and Bruce. Aside from that, I felt disappointed, as the silver tray was over-hyped, and the reveal paid nothing off. I think that is one of the problem with this event: it was over-hyped. Way over-hyped. Snyder claimed he was writing a ground-breaking Batman story, but, what he wrote was the comic equivalent of a Joker's Greatest Hits Album. What I will praise him for is the Joker's dialogue, which read/sounded terrific. With that said, CCOnn's evaluation is accurate: the family was mis-characterized and there were plenty frustrating and poorly written moments.

I actually enjoyed Night of the Owls a lot more. Even though the Lincoln March subplot was not one of my favorite components, it was not as bad as DOTF. Also, I have to voice a complaint about the ending of DOTF: it ended the same way as Night of the Owls. I have become somewhat tired of the "villain should have died, but his body was never recovered," template. Hopefully it will not be applied to the Riddler arc.
DOTF had a lot of potential, and what makes this reality even more frustrating is the few moments that reinforce this, as I have mentioned. If more discipline - editorial and artistic - had been applied, this could have been one of the best Joker stories. But, it's reached an average status, which may change when I pick up the tp in a year.

[CConn]

Originally Posted by BlackMagicWolf

IGN just posted an article about Death of the Family, anyone who felt disappointed should read it. Here's the link.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/...rse-than-death

Lol, that dude's a bigger sanctimonious ******* than I am.

[Scarecrow_King]

And that's saying something.

[The Batman]

I stopped reading that IGN article after the first sentence.

[BatLobsterRises]

A good interview with Snyder:

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2013/0...medium=twitter

[Motown Marvel]

Originally Posted by The Batman

I stopped reading that IGN article after the first sentence.

Yup.

[Léo Ho Tep]

Originally Posted by Llama_Shepherd

+1. I very much enjoyed Snyder when he was on Detective Comics, so I'd actually love to see him moved to Nightwing, where he would hopefully write a Nightwing who is compotent as he is one of the most experienced heroes after the JL. Then Tomasi might be allowed free reign on Batman & Robin.

Unfortunately, Snyder=$ so he's noot gonna be moving, which means more contrived, rehashed crap, which ultimately is systematically dismantling the run of the far superior Grant Morrison.

Since 2005 we've seen Bruce actually evolving as a character, that there is more to him than just Batman and that the most important thing, the first truth of Batman was that he was never alone, and Scott Snyder managed to take that away in one- very underwhelming- issue.

Exactly. Morrison and Tomasi are great because they understand there is more to Bruce Wayne than just Batman or his fake bruce persona. It reminds me in a way of the bronze age batman, when he was truly heroic, instead of being a psycho, and while he was dedicated to his mission, bruce was a true living character. I'm tired of those lame and cliched "bruce wayne is the mask" stories.

And while Snyder tries to humanize his characters, he doesn't succeed, imo, because he's so obviously trying to write the goddamn incredible arc everybody will talk about in a decade or so.

Like you said, not only the issue was underwhelming, but it achieved nothing new, and it certainly didn't help Bruce to grow as a character. We already saw him disappoint in his allies several times in the past few years: tower of babel, war games..... So this ending is nothing new. And it's not even interesting: Dick, Tim, Jason and Damian are all strong individuals, whose will would not be destroyed that easily by someone like the Joker. (I purposedly didn't mention Barbara). Having them turn their back on Bruce is not only off character imo, but it doesn't work because of how strong inc is right now, and how powerful issue #8 will probably turn. How are we supposed to care for that storyline, when inc threatens to be so intense, and the whole batfamily will be on the line? That doesn't make sense. And regardless, the story of DOTF was weak. Not because nobody died, but because it was cliché and boring. Which is sad, since some scenes were good.

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

I agree with this overall. I do think part of the problem is the hype surrounding this story. Snyder kind of set the stage for a horror-like, Silence of the Lambs type of ending but ultimately it was still a Batman story full of Batman tropes. I think it succeeded in finding some new edges to bring out in the Batman/Joker dynamic, but let's face it- a lot of readers were expecting at least one death. Doesn't mean that was the right way to end it, but the expectation was there.

This is just my opinion, but I think what rubs some people the wrong way about Snyder is his writing has a touch of self-importance to it (which Morrison's did too), which causes people to be more critical. Trust me, I can relate to that mindset so I'm not blaming anyone who bashes his run. But if you remove all the hype and whatnot, I still think he's writing quite solid Batman stories. I know others will disagree, but his arcs have certainly kept my attention so far, and Capullo's artwork has been stellar. One thing I respect about Snyder's stuff is that he comes up with an interpretation and sticks with it, even if it's an unconventional way of viewing Gotham/the characters. Joker's motivation throughout this story was unique and new to the mythos, it drove the story the whole way through and stayed consistent up to the very last panel. He had a take on the character and his relationship with Batman and stuck to his guns.

I understand your point. and while I do think the hype was irritating, I also think I wouldn't have liked the story more nor less without this hype. While I do think some of his ideas are good, more often than not since night of owls, it's boring and uninspired, and he's often stating the obvious, which doesn't work for me. For instance, Damian looking at Wayne manor with a sad look in Batman & Robin was more powerful than Batman telling nightwing that Alfred is like a father to him (something we all know for years, but do we need a writer to stating it loudly and without subtlety? I think not).

Originally Posted by The Batman

I stopped reading that IGN article after the first sentence.

Same here.

[Mystirious]

Batwoman was so utterly fab this week

I loved the conclusion to this arc so much and I really hope that

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Maggie is going to say yes, I want her and Kate to get married so much

I totally didn't see the final twist coming either. Alice being in the sarcophagus was surprising enough but finding out that Bones is related to Kate was even more shocking

Loved Bette in this issue too, kicking ass and getting payback for what happened to her back in the first arc

And did anyone else find The Hook's new body weirdly adorable?

EVIL CRAB

[Oberon sexton]

Isn't he really just Sebastian from little mermaid?

[Darkness Falls]

agreed i really enjoyed batwoman this week

[HighFivingMF]

Thought I'd share this in all threads that apply.

Greg Pak/Jae Lee Batman/Superman starts in June.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2...eries/1935817/

[hippie_hunter]

Batwoman #17 was at least a good ending to a terrible, terrible arc. Glad that it's finally over.

[BatsnCats]

Who hear read redhood #17? Was a good issue, liked it better than some DOF crossovers during the event.

[CConn]

Originally Posted by HighFivingMF

Thought I'd share this in all threads that apply.

Greg Pak/Jae Lee Batman/Superman starts in June.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2...eries/1935817/

I like the idea conceptually.

Pak's generally a good writer, and fingers crossed Jae has stopped plagiarizing people.

[Oberon sexton]

I agree. Pak's done great things with the Hulk mythology and his Magneto:Testament mini series was brilliant.

[Frico]

So, looks like Nightwing's headed to...

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Chicago.

[Scarecrow_King]

Originally Posted by CConn

I like the idea conceptually.

Pak's generally a good writer, and fingers crossed Jae has stopped plagiarizing people.

Jae plagiarizes? Haven't heard anything about that.

I don't like him on interiors, though. He's fine for covers, but I don't think I've ever seen him draw a character smiling. His art is so moody. Him drawing a character like Superman just doesn't work for me.

[Charlie Boy]

So I know Tim is in Teen Titans, but how often has he popped up in the Bat-books? Does he still have a substantial place in the Bat Family?