The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Spider-Man > The Comics

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-31-2013, 03:47 AM   #976
JJJ's Ulcer
Old, cigar chompin' grump
 
JJJ's Ulcer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The pit of J Jonah Jameson's stomach.
Posts: 11,889
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by runawayboulder View Post
Best Spidey story of the previous 20 years.
In all honesty I haven't read those issues, but it'd be pretty tough to top ASM # 400. But I'll give it a shot on comixology, which is honestly my favorite app on my iPhone. Hardly ever have to hunt for back-issues now, at least from Marvel and DC. Wish they carried more indie books though.

__________________
28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes, 12 seconds…. that is when the world will end, Louise...
JJJ's Ulcer is online now  
Old 07-31-2013, 03:55 AM   #977
JJJ's Ulcer
Old, cigar chompin' grump
 
JJJ's Ulcer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The pit of J Jonah Jameson's stomach.
Posts: 11,889
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by JewishHobbit View Post
I'd have hated either way but would have taken JMS' approach over Quesada's. I can at least appreciate when a story makes sense, even if I don't care for the story. Quesada's was a bad story that did bad things that made no sense. And his art wasn't that good either.
I just don't understand how they thought a deal with the Devil to sacrifice his marriage and retcon their future child would somehow be less controversial than a simple divorce. I would have disliked a divorce, but we wouldn't be talking about it five plus years later (at least not nearly as much as we are). At least a divorce, as out of character as it may be, could have been rooted in reality since Spidey is intended to be a street-level character, not a book for devil-dealing, mass mindwiping nonsense.

__________________
28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes, 12 seconds…. that is when the world will end, Louise...

Last edited by JJJ's Ulcer; 07-31-2013 at 04:02 AM.
JJJ's Ulcer is online now  
Old 07-31-2013, 08:02 AM   #978
JewishHobbit
The Hebrew Halfling
 
JewishHobbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 25,217
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJ's Ulcer View Post
In all honesty I haven't read those issues, but it'd be pretty tough to top ASM # 400. But I'll give it a shot on comixology, which is honestly my favorite app on my iPhone. Hardly ever have to hunt for back-issues now, at least from Marvel and DC. Wish they carried more indie books though.
Amazing 400 is better in my opinion, but Amazing Spider-Man #655-#656 (particularly #655) is right up there in that range.

Quote:
I just don't understand how they thought a deal with the Devil to sacrifice his marriage and retcon their future child would somehow be less controversial than a simple divorce. I would have disliked a divorce, but we wouldn't be talking about it five plus years later (at least not nearly as much as we are). At least a divorce, as out of character as it may be, could have been rooted in reality since Spidey is intended to be a street-level character, not a book for devil-dealing, mass mindwiping nonsense.
Or just kill her off. I know they didn't want to go through a long period of grieving, but it'd have been better than what we got.

__________________
Follow my writing career at:

BRADFORDCOMBS.TK
and
AUTHORBRADFORDCOMBS.BLOGSPOT.COM
JewishHobbit is offline  
Old 07-31-2013, 09:14 AM   #979
optimus2861
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 87
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Themanofbat View Post
JMS' ending would have DELETED over 30 YEARS of Spider-Man history.
I loathe this argument. The 30-year-old comics would still be in your hands. You could still read them, still enjoy their stories, still be emotionally moved by them. I still own the wedding annual, still own many of the issues from when Peter & MJ were married. I still own Harry Osborn's death issue, and Aunt May's; those issues are beautiful reads to this day. Marvel's stupid magical hand-waving of all that history doesn't remove those books from my possession or mean those stories didn't happen. I didn't like what Marvel did in any of those cases (and I don't read the comics any more anyway) but those books aren't "deleted from history".

All
stories end, or move on, or are rebooted or reimagined. I admit I find it mildly amusing that a retcon is something to be so vigorously opposed, but Marvel can kill the hero and replace him with the villain and that's ... celebrated? I don't get comic book fans sometimes.

But as I said, I gave up on reading comic books quite some time ago. I stick to the cartoon & movie adaptations instead. So take my $.02 worth at a discount.

optimus2861 is offline  
Old 07-31-2013, 11:25 AM   #980
JewishHobbit
The Hebrew Halfling
 
JewishHobbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 25,217
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

While I disagree with you, optimus, TMoB has always agreed with what you said there.

At least... until it shifted from the marriage era to comics HE cares about

__________________
Follow my writing career at:

BRADFORDCOMBS.TK
and
AUTHORBRADFORDCOMBS.BLOGSPOT.COM
JewishHobbit is offline  
Old 07-31-2013, 11:59 AM   #981
Themanofbat
Never Mind the Buttocks...
 
Themanofbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: With your Mom in Moncton, NB, Canada
Posts: 39,409
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by optimus2861 View Post
I loathe this argument. The 30-year-old comics would still be in your hands. You could still read them, still enjoy their stories, still be emotionally moved by them. I still own the wedding annual, still own many of the issues from when Peter & MJ were married. I still own Harry Osborn's death issue, and Aunt May's; those issues are beautiful reads to this day. Marvel's stupid magical hand-waving of all that history doesn't remove those books from my possession or mean those stories didn't happen. I didn't like what Marvel did in any of those cases (and I don't read the comics any more anyway) but those books aren't "deleted from history".
I can't get into it 'too much" on account that I'm at work...

Yes, you're right... they did happen, and like the "after the marriage" stories, they still happened... it all happened... it's all canon, it's all part of Spider-Man's history...

The OMD solution did not erase those stories, as they all still exist within Marvel history, but in lieu of a married couple, they were just "living together"... that might seem like a HUGE difference, or maybe just a small hindrance, depends on which side of the fence you are standing, but THEY STILL HAPPENED according to the character's right history.

IF the JMS solution had gone into effect... yes, those stories are still available and within some type of history, but it would have meant a "hardcore reboot" of the character. We'd be starting over with something brand new.

The beautiful aspect of writing Spider-Man today is you can STILL reference any of those old stories, because they occurred in said character's history.

The JMS solution would have made that effectively impossible.

There is a difference.

There IS a difference between reading a "married Spider-Man" comic that is now a "living together Spider-Man" comic, versus a "Gwen gets killed" comic to a "it never happened in New Continuity" comic.

And you know it.

No need to be obtuse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by optimus2861 View Post
All [/B]stories end, or move on, or are rebooted or reimagined. I admit I find it mildly amusing that a retcon is something to be so vigorously opposed, but Marvel can kill the hero and replace him with the villain and that's ... celebrated? I don't get comic book fans sometimes.
Monthly serialized fiction, by it's very definition, means that there is no end... not without a hard reboot, something which I believe Marvel wants to avoid so as to not eliminate its rich history, as well as wanting to avoid being "NewDC", and a good story is a good story, so "Superior" is merely another chapter in the never ending life of our featured hero, Peter Parker... whose story is far from over.


__________________
Alea Jacta Est

Read The Amazing Spider-Man...100% pure Spider-Man Goodness...

"It's disturbing when young people believe right-wing political hype. It's like rock n' roll never happened."

Play Spider-Man Trivia here...

Last edited by Themanofbat; 07-31-2013 at 12:14 PM.
Themanofbat is offline  
Old 07-31-2013, 12:04 PM   #982
Themanofbat
Never Mind the Buttocks...
 
Themanofbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: With your Mom in Moncton, NB, Canada
Posts: 39,409
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by JewishHobbit View Post
While I disagree with you, optimus, TMoB has always agreed with what you said there.

At least... until it shifted from the marriage era to comics HE cares about
I like and care about ALL my Spider-Man comics... I don't place any importance to any "era", though admittedly, I like some of them more than others.

Christ, it's 5 years later and I feel like I still have to explain myself.

I wasn't a fan of OMD when it happened... I don't like "reboots" for lack of a better word, but I was willing to give Marvel the benefit of the doubt and gave them within 18 to 24 months to explain all the "differences" between pre OMD and BND... and as time went on, things were given logical explanations... some of them were dumb, but an explanation is better than NO explanation at all... as long as I can connect the dots, then it works with me.


__________________
Alea Jacta Est

Read The Amazing Spider-Man...100% pure Spider-Man Goodness...

"It's disturbing when young people believe right-wing political hype. It's like rock n' roll never happened."

Play Spider-Man Trivia here...
Themanofbat is offline  
Old 07-31-2013, 01:44 PM   #983
optimus2861
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 87
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Themanofbat View Post
There IS a difference between reading a "married Spider-Man" comic that is now a "living together Spider-Man" comic, versus a "Gwen gets killed" comic to a "it never happened in New Continuity" comic.

And you know it.

No need to be obtuse.
I'm as big a Star Trek fan as they come. The new movies rebooted the entire Trek universe via time travel. By your .. "argument", that should mean that I can't watch nor enjoy an episode of classic Star Trek, or Next Generation, or any other series any more. Simply untrue. Nothing obtuse about it. (That said, Into Darknesssucked and all but drained my enthusiasm for the new series...)

Eh, this isn't really the place to go into my views on the long history of comic book universes. Since I'm no longer a buyer of their books, Marvel don't care what I think anyway

optimus2861 is offline  
Old 07-31-2013, 01:55 PM   #984
Themanofbat
Never Mind the Buttocks...
 
Themanofbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: With your Mom in Moncton, NB, Canada
Posts: 39,409
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by optimus2861 View Post
I'm as big a Star Trek fan as they come. The new movies rebooted the entire Trek universe via time travel. By your .. "argument", that should mean that I can't watch nor enjoy an episode of classic Star Trek, or Next Generation, or any other series any more. Simply untrue.
I agree with you.

You can "enjoy" anything at the time that you happen to be "enjoying" it...

The word "enjoy" is not the correct word...

What I mean to say is that ALL the Spider-Books, likewise, all the old Star Trek episodes, still have REVERENCE to one another, old and new books alike... there's a connection, and what happened in any of these books still matter in regards to the new books that come in month in and month out...

A "hard reboot" makes the older material, while still enjoyable, irrelevant.

The JMS ending would have resulted in a hard reboot... something Marvel did not want.

Just my two cents...


__________________
Alea Jacta Est

Read The Amazing Spider-Man...100% pure Spider-Man Goodness...

"It's disturbing when young people believe right-wing political hype. It's like rock n' roll never happened."

Play Spider-Man Trivia here...
Themanofbat is offline  
Old 07-31-2013, 02:21 PM   #985
runawayboulder
#TheFappening
 
runawayboulder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the edge
Posts: 16,725
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by JewishHobbit View Post
Or just kill her off. I know they didn't want to go through a long period of grieving, but it'd have been better than what we got.
It had already been done by Howard Mackie during his loathsome run. Yeah, it was a fake death but most of those types of stories had already been done (awfully, might I add).

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by C. Lee View Post
This is a message board...no one killed your mother or had sex with your dog.....try to move on in life.
runawayboulder is offline  
Old 07-31-2013, 02:37 PM   #986
JJJ's Ulcer
Old, cigar chompin' grump
 
JJJ's Ulcer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The pit of J Jonah Jameson's stomach.
Posts: 11,889
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by runawayboulder View Post
It had already been done by Howard Mackie during his loathsome run. Yeah, it was a fake death but most of those types of stories had already been done (awfully, might I add).
It was awful. But it wasn't nearly as awful as OMD. Look, there were no good solutions to separate Pete and MJ (which is why it shouldn't have been done in the first place) but there were less-bad solutions. Death, divorce, banishment... almost any hackneyed story would have been better than what we got.

__________________
28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes, 12 seconds…. that is when the world will end, Louise...
JJJ's Ulcer is online now  
Old 07-31-2013, 03:15 PM   #987
Scarecrow_King
King of Swinging Moods
 
Scarecrow_King's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Point of Diminishing Returns
Posts: 4,989
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJ's Ulcer View Post
It was awful. But it wasn't nearly as awful as OMD. Look, there were no good solutions to separate Pete and MJ (which is why it shouldn't have been done in the first place) but there were less-bad solutions. Death, divorce, banishment... almost any hackneyed story would have been better than what we got.
People always say that, and it's a terribly stupid thing to say. How do you know anything would've been better? Stories are always dependent on both idea and execution. Just because you like the idea of MJ dying over the deal with Mephisto doesn't mean it would've been better. It would've had just as much chance to be worse than OMD than it did better.

__________________
Well, it's been a shattering disillusionment. Goodnight.
Scarecrow_King is offline  
Old 07-31-2013, 03:33 PM   #988
Spider-Gnome
The Arach-Gnome
 
Spider-Gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,521
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJ's Ulcer View Post
It was awful. But it wasn't nearly as awful as OMD. Look, there were no good solutions to separate Pete and MJ (which is why it shouldn't have been done in the first place) but there were less-bad solutions. Death, divorce, banishment... almost any hackneyed story would have been better than what we got.
There's your answer. No problems...

__________________
... and get off my lawn!!!



The Spectacular Spider-Man:
The BEST adaptation of the Spider-Man comics in any form

Last edited by Spider-Gnome; 07-31-2013 at 03:40 PM.
Spider-Gnome is offline  
Old 07-31-2013, 03:38 PM   #989
runawayboulder
#TheFappening
 
runawayboulder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the edge
Posts: 16,725
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

Too bad it wasn't the answer we got.

Bottom line - the marriage was doomed behind the scenes from the start. The higher ups that knew Stan Lee was marrying them in the comic strip and wanted uniformity. No one, including the EiC at the time Jim Shooter, wanted it. But they got it forced down on them. Lo and behold the marriage worked and the naysayers all got their crack at breaking them up before one guy got his way.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by C. Lee View Post
This is a message board...no one killed your mother or had sex with your dog.....try to move on in life.
runawayboulder is offline  
Old 07-31-2013, 06:31 PM   #990
KaineMorrison
ben_reilly_s_s
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Selden, NY
Posts: 453
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

MJ's "death" during Mackie's run was always intended to be undone.
They had a backdoor built into it from the beginning... Unlike a lot of other stories...

KaineMorrison is offline  
Old 07-31-2013, 06:40 PM   #991
Lunar_Wolf
WTF face
 
Lunar_Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 40,718
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

Damn, I'm liking the new suit. Didn't think I would.

Lunar_Wolf is offline  
Old 07-31-2013, 07:08 PM   #992
Spidey_62
Eeeeeeeeeeelectro
 
Spidey_62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,629
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaineMorrison View Post
MJ's "death" during Mackie's run was always intended to be undone.
They had a backdoor built into it from the beginning... Unlike a lot of other stories...
Wasn't one of the door's shown literally busting off before or during the plane explosion? Am I remembering correctly?

__________________
"So you don't like names, huh? Well that's too bad, Frog-Face. 'Cause to me you're nothing but a two-bit, no-account, second-rate, sewer-breath-baboon with a brain of a pigeon and the face of an eel!" ~ Spider-Man

DeviantArt. Art blog. Hype Art Thread. Twitter. Instagram. YouTube.

INFINITE WONDERS- read comics I draw. _TIMESPACE.
Spidey_62 is offline  
Old 07-31-2013, 07:39 PM   #993
runawayboulder
#TheFappening
 
runawayboulder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the edge
Posts: 16,725
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidey_62 View Post
Wasn't one of the door's shown literally busting off before or during the plane explosion? Am I remembering correctly?
One of the doors was seen falling off before the explosion on the next page.

The actual explanation was the stalker had disguised himself as an old man, then drugged her with a lollipop before she got on the plane, pretended to be her uncle and got her off the plane because she appeared sick.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by C. Lee View Post
This is a message board...no one killed your mother or had sex with your dog.....try to move on in life.
runawayboulder is offline  
Old 07-31-2013, 08:14 PM   #994
JJJ's Ulcer
Old, cigar chompin' grump
 
JJJ's Ulcer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The pit of J Jonah Jameson's stomach.
Posts: 11,889
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarecrow_King View Post
People always say that, and it's a terribly stupid thing to say. How do you know anything would've been better? Stories are always dependent on both idea and execution. Just because you like the idea of MJ dying over the deal with Mephisto doesn't mean it would've been better. It would've had just as much chance to be worse than OMD than it did better.
Ohhhhh boy. Sure in the infinite realm of story possibilities, there might have been one that would have been worse than OMD. But I have a hard time imagining one as stupid and harmful to the character as that one, don't you?

__________________
28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes, 12 seconds…. that is when the world will end, Louise...
JJJ's Ulcer is online now  
Old 07-31-2013, 10:54 PM   #995
Scarecrow_King
King of Swinging Moods
 
Scarecrow_King's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Point of Diminishing Returns
Posts: 4,989
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

No. I can think of plenty of things that would've been equally or even more offensive than OMD. You just need a better imagination.

__________________
Well, it's been a shattering disillusionment. Goodnight.
Scarecrow_King is offline  
Old 08-01-2013, 01:19 AM   #996
JJJ's Ulcer
Old, cigar chompin' grump
 
JJJ's Ulcer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The pit of J Jonah Jameson's stomach.
Posts: 11,889
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarecrow_King View Post
No. I can think of plenty of things that would've been equally or even more offensive than OMD. You just need a better imagination.
Well I guess we're damn lucky you're not writing for Spidey then

__________________
28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes, 12 seconds…. that is when the world will end, Louise...
JJJ's Ulcer is online now  
Old 08-02-2013, 05:36 AM   #997
Will Nolte
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 561
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJ's Ulcer View Post
Ohhhhh boy. Sure in the infinite realm of story possibilities, there might have been one that would have been worse than OMD. But I have a hard time imagining one as stupid and harmful to the character as that one, don't you?
Peter could have used a little girl as a shield to save his own life...oh wait...

Will Nolte is offline  
Old 08-02-2013, 05:54 AM   #998
KaineMorrison
ben_reilly_s_s
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Selden, NY
Posts: 453
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

ya know what! They should get JMS back and have him write exactly what he was originally going to to finish off his run but put it under the title of What If: One More Day

KaineMorrison is offline  
Old 08-02-2013, 06:29 AM   #999
runawayboulder
#TheFappening
 
runawayboulder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the edge
Posts: 16,725
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

I'm pretty sure he's burned every bridge at Marvel.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by C. Lee View Post
This is a message board...no one killed your mother or had sex with your dog.....try to move on in life.
runawayboulder is offline  
Old 08-02-2013, 06:36 AM   #1000
runawayboulder
#TheFappening
 
runawayboulder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the edge
Posts: 16,725
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Nolte View Post
Peter could have used a little girl as a shield to save his own life...oh wait...
That wasn't Peter.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by C. Lee View Post
This is a message board...no one killed your mother or had sex with your dog.....try to move on in life.
runawayboulder is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:30 PM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.