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Old 02-16-2013, 03:07 PM   #101
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

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Originally Posted by regwec View Post
I just thought I would drop by to mention due process, and point out that no one here has a clue what happened.
Who said we knew what happened and who said he doesn't deserve due process? As Rachel said we aren't on the jury so what the hell does it matter what we say? Are you saying that we don't have the right to speculate what could have happened?

Honestly your post is pointless.

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Old 02-16-2013, 03:12 PM   #102
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

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Originally Posted by terry78 View Post
No one knows but the guy that did it, which is usually the problem. Do you punish or let him go free based on what?
A question for the jury, who will hear all the evidence.

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Originally Posted by RachelDawes View Post
Since none of us has the slightest power over hat will happen to Pistorius, it's fine for us to jump to conclusions.
It is never fine to jump to conclusions. The man is accused of murder: if the whole thing is a tragic accident, how unjust it is to assume the worst.

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Old 02-16-2013, 03:18 PM   #103
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

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It is never fine to jump to conclusions. The man is accused of murder: if the whole thing is a tragic accident, how unjust it is to assume the worst.
Being trashed on an internet message board is not an injustice, or, if it is, it's an injustice so small as to have no real relevance.

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Old 02-16-2013, 03:22 PM   #104
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

Why do you think your opinion matters so little? Of course it is infinitely unlikely that Pistorius will ever hear your personal view, but you are able to persuade others and from their opinions. I am sure he does care what the rest of the world thinks, and we are each individually part of that. I don't think group responsibility should be seen as diminished responsibility.

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Old 02-16-2013, 03:24 PM   #105
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

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Being trashed on an internet message board is not an injustice, or, if it is, it's an injustice so small as to have no real relevance.
Exactly.

Actually I hope it was an accident but I'm not just going to assume that it was just because. his lawyer wants me to. Either way the guy still pumped his girlfriend full of bullets so the whole thing will be tragic regardless.

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Old 02-16-2013, 03:56 PM   #106
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

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Originally Posted by regwec View Post
A question for the jury, who will hear all the evidence.


It is never fine to jump to conclusions. The man is accused of murder: if the whole thing is a tragic accident, how unjust it is to assume the worst.
we dont have a jury system in south africa.

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Old 02-16-2013, 03:59 PM   #107
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

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we dont have a jury system in south africa.
Is it a single judge deciding, or a judge panel? I'm genuinely curious, as I had previously assumed SA had the same legal system as other democratic commonwealth countries.

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Old 02-16-2013, 04:05 PM   #108
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

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Is it a single judge deciding, or a judge panel? I'm genuinely curious, as I had previously assumed SA had the same legal system as other democratic commonwealth countries.
from what I recall, I believe its a single judge.

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Old 02-16-2013, 04:21 PM   #109
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

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Originally Posted by regwec View Post
I just thought I would drop by to mention due process, and point out that no one here has a clue what happened.

I doubt anyone's post in this forum is going to take away Pistorius's right to a fair trial.



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I would have just stayed really quiet and listened. A male intruder would have walked and moved more heavily. Would have been fairly easy to tell if it was his girlfriend on the other side of the door.

You would think so. I would assume most people might say something before just blasting through a door.

New details of tragedy emerge in Pistorius case, per South African newspaper


http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olympi...2833--oly.html

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Old 02-16-2013, 04:40 PM   #110
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

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Why do you think your opinion matters so little? Of course it is infinitely unlikely that Pistorius will ever hear your personal view, but you are able to persuade others and from their opinions. I am sure he does care what the rest of the world thinks, and we are each individually part of that. I don't think group responsibility should be seen as diminished responsibility.
First this is an internet message board, not a courtroom jury. Get off your high horse. We can speculate all we want. And the facts are on the side of the people who think he did it, not on your's.

Second I could give a crap if he cares what we think. He blew away a lovely woman who had her whole life ahead of her. I hope he rots in jail and has his multi-million titanium (or whatever) legs taken from him, so he can never run again as long as he lives. Then he can just sit there in his cell for 60 years and think about what he's done.

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Old 02-16-2013, 06:09 PM   #111
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

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we dont have a jury system in south africa.
Really? You learn something every day. You still use the common law and send appeals to the Privy Council, though. Are juries something you have done away with recently?
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First this is an internet message board, not a courtroom jury. Get off your high horse. We can speculate all we want. And the facts are on the side of the people who think he did it, not on your's.
This is really very ignorant. The facts are on the "side" of "people" who think he did what? Killed her? Committed murder? Few people doubt the former. And what is "my side" exactly? I don't have an opinion on the man's guilt, only that it is not something we can fairly assume.

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I could give a crap if he cares what we think. He blew away a lovely woman who had her whole life ahead of her. I hope he rots in jail and has his multi-million titanium (or whatever) legs taken from him, so he can never run again as long as he lives. Then he can just sit there in his cell for 60 years and think about what he's done.
So you have decided he is guilty of...whatever, and have already imposed your own fantasy punishment on him. At any point did you consider keeping an open mind?

This is why democracy is a dangerous thing.

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Old 02-16-2013, 06:25 PM   #112
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

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Really? You learn something every day.
You criticize the ignorance of others and yet you don't even know how the justice system of that country works.



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This is really very ignorant. The facts are on the "side" of "people" who think he did what? Killed her? Committed murder? Few people doubt the former. And what is "my side" exactly? I don't have an opinion on the man's guilt, only that it is not something we can fairly assume.
The police dismissed his flimsy story of being surprised by an intruder and charged him with premeditated murder. Considering the fact they had been called there for domestic disturbances before, that neighbors heard shouting before the gun shots and that he shot her FOUR times, that's good enough for me. So you can accuse me of ignorance all you want, but I looked at the facts of this case and it seems pretty cut and dried. If this was some ordinary dude instead of a beloved celebrity and sports icon, no one would be doubting his guilt because it's that obvious. The ignorance lies on the side of those so clouded by their god-like worship of celebrities that they can't accept the truth when those "heroes" are revealed to be monsters.


Quote:
So you have decided he is guilty of...whatever, and have already imposed your own fantasy punishment on him. At any point did you consider keeping an open mind?

This is why democracy is a dangerous thing.
Yes. Let's take the opinion of the guy who is anti-democracy.

Whatever, man. Bladerunner did it. Sorry your hero let you down.

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Old 02-16-2013, 06:27 PM   #113
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

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Head shots are forbidden in self defense cases from my knowledge in the US. If its a head shot its manslaughter I believe. No?
Who told you that?

If it's legal self-defense, i.e. if someone breaks into your house, and you feel reasonably threatened, you can use lethal force in most states. Doesn't matter if you shoot them in the head, or decapitate them with a sword (this actually came up not too long ago).

However you do have to feel reasonably threatened. So, that wouldn't apply to this case.

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Old 02-16-2013, 06:39 PM   #114
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

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You criticize the ignorance of others and yet you don't even know how the justice system of that country works.





The police dismissed his flimsy story of being surprised by an intruder and charged him with premeditated murder. Considering the fact they had been called there for domestic disturbances before, that neighbors heard shouting before the gun shots and that he shot her FOUR times, that's good enough for me. So you can accuse me of ignorance all you want, but I looked at the facts of this case and it seems pretty cut and dried. If this was some ordinary dude instead of a beloved celebrity and sports icon, no one would be doubting his guilt because it's that obvious. The ignorance lies on the side of those so clouded by their god-like worship of celebrities that they can't accept the truth when those "heroes" are revealed to be monsters.




Yes. Let's take the opinion of the guy who is anti-democracy.

Whatever, man. Bladerunner did it. Sorry your hero let you down.
Actually, I barely knew who he was until this incident, and I didn't say I was opposed to democracy, but that it had its dangers due to the very irrational and authoritarian being included. You seem to live in a fantasy world where policeman decide people's guilt. That is fascism.

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Old 02-16-2013, 07:16 PM   #115
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

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Actually, I barely knew who he was until this incident, and I didn't say I was opposed to democracy, but that it had its dangers due to the very irrational and authoritarian being included. You seem to live in a fantasy world where policeman decide people's guilt. That is fascism.
The fact you resorted to calling me, in essence, a fascist instead of responding to my points individually on their merits, shows what shaky foundations your argument is based on. I take the police's side over the side of the guy who shot his girlfriend four times. That doesn't make me a fascist. That makes me rational.

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Old 02-16-2013, 07:43 PM   #116
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

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You seem to live in a fantasy world where policeman decide people's guilt.
Look how easy this is:

"You seem to live in a fantasy world where opinions on internet message boards decide peoples' guilt."

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Old 02-16-2013, 07:48 PM   #117
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

Let us not forget that we all make mistakes in moments of real rage. Now, we can all say that we are better than that, but the truth of it is that we can lose control. In my younger more impetuous years I blacked out one time and beat a bully senseless, and could have easily killed him if others hadn't been around to pull me off him. We went on to get along fairly well after that, but all it would have taken in that fight was one wrong thing and he could have been dead. Life is fragile, and we are adept at taking it without meaning to. So before we go destroying this man's artificial legs and damning him to a dark pit of filth for the rest of his natural life lets just step back. Us being vindictive won't undo what he did. It won't accomplish anything productive at all. Locking away a problem isn't solving the problem. They need to get to the truth and find out what actually happened.

If it was domestic violence then I can't say I am ready to fry the man. Couples fight, and depending on the personality of the two, the fights can be huge. Some people are weaker, and in that moment of rage just lash out. He isn't evil. He is a human being who lost copntrol of his emotions and actions and did something I am sure he regrets. I would rather him face his crime, feel guilt, and give him an opportunity to feel penance.

If it was premeditated then he will be brought to justice, and maybe it is fair that he loses his artificial legs for a while, maybe forever, as a penance for his actions.

If it was a genuine accident then good luck to him, because the legal system he is up against already seems to have a verdict.

Either way, whatever the truth is, a life is lost, and another is ruined all because of human emotions. Damn shame.

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Old 02-16-2013, 07:50 PM   #118
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

My argument, so far as I have one, is that people are entitled to be considered innocent until proven guilty in a fair trial. Is that shaky? Fascism considers it so.

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Old 02-16-2013, 07:54 PM   #119
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

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Look how easy this is:

"You seem to live in a fantasy world where opinions on internet message boards decide peoples' guilt."
You seem to have mistaken me for someone who has said anything remotely similar.

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Old 02-16-2013, 07:54 PM   #120
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

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My argument, so far as I have one, is that people are entitled to be considered innocent until proven guilty in a fair trial. Is that shaky? Fascism considers it so.
They absolutely are entitled to a fair trial, and I don't think anyone here is saying otherwise.

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Old 02-16-2013, 08:01 PM   #121
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

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They absolutely are entitled to a fair trial, and I don't think anyone here is saying otherwise.
Absolutely. And just as he's entitled to a fair trial, we are entitled to draw our own opinions on his guilt. regwec, for reasons I can't fathom, has some problem with that.

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Old 02-16-2013, 08:12 PM   #122
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

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You seem to have mistaken me for someone who has said anything remotely similar.
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Why do you think your opinion matters so little? Of course it is infinitely unlikely that Pistorius will ever hear your personal view, but you are able to persuade others and from their opinions. I am sure he does care what the rest of the world thinks, and we are each individually part of that. I don't think group responsibility should be seen as diminished responsibility.
The least you could do is make this challenging.

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Old 02-16-2013, 08:16 PM   #123
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

I wouldn't trouble yourself to feign a reasoned outlook now. A moment ago you had already wished him into prison and kicked his crutches away.

Maybe it will turn out the way you want it to, and maybe not. I would rather wait and see.

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Old 02-16-2013, 08:18 PM   #124
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

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I wouldn't trouble yourself to feign a reasoned outlook now. A moment ago you had already wished him into prison and kicked his crutches away.

Maybe it will turn out the way you want it to, and maybe not. I would rather wait and see.
This was directed towards whom, exactly?

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Old 02-16-2013, 08:20 PM   #125
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Default Re: Olympian Oscar Pistorius "Blade Runner" kills girlfriend.

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The least you could do is make this challenging.
The two statements don't tally. I am slightly unnerved by your incomprehension of that.

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