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Old 02-17-2013, 10:39 AM   #51
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 3

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Look at the BO for Avengers, I can guarantee you a lot if this people didn't see the films before and probably watched them after they saw Avengers. Therefore you don't need to build towards it, you can leap from it.
Just because a lot of people didn't see every one of them doesn't mean anything. The fact that everybody simply knew each character had a solo film and that The Avengers was a team-up of them all is the main reason it was so hyped and had so much build up. The movie being able to live up to the hype was a miracle and is what made it so big. Without lead-ins a Justice League movie simply isn't going to garner the same amount of hype and even if the film is just as good or a little better, without some kind of gimmick it's most likely not going to be anywhere near as successful.

Henry Cavill being Superman in a Justice League movie is all the movie has going for it in that regard unless we see Ryan play Green Lantern again. People wont take too kindly to a new Batman unless he ends up pulling a Mark Ruffalo and end up being the best Batman, which is what WB should be putting an extreme amount of focus on.

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Old 02-17-2013, 11:08 AM   #52
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 3

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Just because a lot of people didn't see every one of them doesn't mean anything. The fact that everybody simply knew each character had a solo film and that The Avengers was a team-up of them all is the main reason it was so hyped and had so much build up. The movie being able to live up to the hype was a miracle and is what made it so big. Without lead-ins a Justice League movie simply isn't going to garner the same amount of hype and even if the film is just as good or a little better, without some kind of gimmick it's most likely not going to be anywhere near as successful.

Henry Cavill being Superman in a Justice League movie is all the movie has going for it in that regard unless we see Ryan play Green Lantern again. People wont take too kindly to a new Batman unless he ends up pulling a Mark Ruffalo and end up being the best Batman, which is what WB should be putting an extreme amount of focus on.
I tend to look at this argument this way..if my mom and sister, neither of which watch superhero movies or care about them, wanted to see Avengers, loved it, and then proceeded to sit down and watch all the marvel movies the day after seeing it..then I have to say it has nothing to do with the lead-ins..most people don't care about this stuff or think about it like we do. If they hear a movie is good, or see a cool trailer,they go see it. Period.

And let's face it for most people all they need to be told is Superman and Batman are going to be in it together, that will be enough to get them to go see it. Add in the fact that Wonder Woman, a female icon, and flash, someone who at least is visually recognizable, are also in it. That's guaranteed blockbuster

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Old 02-17-2013, 11:47 AM   #53
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 3

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Just because a lot of people didn't see every one of them doesn't mean anything. The fact that everybody simply knew each character had a solo film and that The Avengers was a team-up of them all is the main reason it was so hyped and had so much build up. The movie being able to live up to the hype was a miracle and is what made it so big. Without lead-ins a Justice League movie simply isn't going to garner the same amount of hype and even if the film is just as good or a little better, without some kind of gimmick it's most likely not going to be anywhere near as successful.

Henry Cavill being Superman in a Justice League movie is all the movie has going for it in that regard unless we see Ryan play Green Lantern again. People wont take too kindly to a new Batman unless he ends up pulling a Mark Ruffalo and end up being the best Batman, which is what WB should be putting an extreme amount of focus on.
I agree completely with your points; however, I think the sucess of JL is going to be marginal, certainly not Avengers sucess level, regardless of WB/DC decide the lead-in approach or not. I for one say make your own mark by establishing JL first to help launch solo film...simply because, they have been struggling to get solo films out of the gate, outside of Bats & Supes.

Look how long it to to get GL out...and it flopped. The Marvel approach is not going to work as well for DC...they been trying now for how long? Longer than Marvel Entertainment Studios existence. What WB/DC need to do is build a format, decide what tone & approach, maybe shoot an end of credits tie to a shadowy Batman(til they decide who to go with) watching the proceedings, to show Bats tie-in to MoS. Either reboot GL with Jon or do a sequel with Ryan's Hal...either way with a more serious tone similiar to MoS, with Sinestro and tie-in to another member...I say MMh. Get the ball rolling and launch others afterwards.

Otherwise, we as fans will be waiting another decade for them to launch a solo TV show, yet alone films, before we get an ensemble JL. I just dont see the "lead-in" approach happening expeditiously.

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Old 02-17-2013, 01:44 PM   #54
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 3

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Originally Posted by JB-the-Hunter View Post
Just because a lot of people didn't see every one of them doesn't mean anything. The fact that everybody simply knew each character had a solo film and that The Avengers was a team-up of them all is the main reason it was so hyped and had so much build up. The movie being able to live up to the hype was a miracle and is what made it so big. Without lead-ins a Justice League movie simply isn't going to garner the same amount of hype and even if the film is just as good or a little better, without some kind of gimmick it's most likely not going to be anywhere near as successful.

Henry Cavill being Superman in a Justice League movie is all the movie has going for it in that regard unless we see Ryan play Green Lantern again. People wont take too kindly to a new Batman unless he ends up pulling a Mark Ruffalo and end up being the best Batman, which is what WB should be putting an extreme amount of focus on.
I think a lot of people who hadn't seen the previous films went to see it cause it was hyped up because it was good and people were buzzing about it. The GA who didn't watch the previous films didn't need them. You don't need to do solo lead ins. We see films made all the time featuring groups of characters and they don't need lead ins. You can say yeah but comic book movies are different blah blah blah. They're not I'd the characters are interesting and developed well in one film it can work. Too many people seem to think that Marvels way is the only way, it's not.

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Old 02-17-2013, 01:55 PM   #55
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 3

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I think a lot of people who hadn't seen the previous films went to see it cause it was hyped up because it was good and people were buzzing about it. T
It was hyped up because it was good and becuse of the leadins.Those who saw the leadins hyped it up for those who didnt see it.
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Too many people seem to think that Marvels way is the only way, it's not.
The marvel way isnt the only way-its just the best way.

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Old 02-17-2013, 01:57 PM   #56
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 3

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The marvel way isnt the only way-its just the best way.
I'm curious how you know that.

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Old 02-17-2013, 02:09 PM   #57
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I'm curious how you know that.
Ive posted my reasons numerous times.Here they are
No 1.With the exception of Batman and Supes non of them have Public draw power.People always argue that Flash,WW,Gl are more iconic than the avengers characters.Yet I dare you to ask a kid what what Flashs secret identiy is. Youll get no answer.Ask them what Ironmans secret identity is and theyll give it to you without blinking.The movies have moved heroes like Iron man from "simply recongnizble" to "Public drawing heroes".Flash,WW and to a smaller extent GL are still "simply recongnizable"

Basically it goes down like this
The appeal of seeing JL movie without solos-Bats and supes
The appeal of seeing JL movie with solos-Bats,supes,flash,GL,WW.

look at both and you can see why the solo movie approach is superior-It has more appeal.A JL movie without solos will ineveitably be less of an event than one with solos

No 2.The other problem the spinoff approach has is establsihing the various mythologies of each hero in the same universe with one go.

For example Establishing Wonder woman mythos(fantasy) and Green lantern mythos(sci fi) in the same universe and having them interact normally.
It also has to constantly explain aspects on the mythos as they are introduced in the Jl movie explanations that take up screentime and detract from main plot.Explanations that wld have been covered in solo movies.

No 3.Jl movie following the spinoff approach has to Get all characterisations right in one go and seeing as they cant use solo leadins as template like the avengers did,this will be more difficult.

Getting the characterisations right is not just for the sake of the Jl movie but for the spinofs.Fact is.The Jl director is essentially in one go setting up the groundwork for the solo movie spinoffs and theres a good possibility of making a mistake since he is focusing on so many characters.Its not like Marvels appproach where they systematically built the groundwork for each solo movie in its own movie thus minimizing errors.Whoever is writing the script for a JL movie needs to essntially have a grand plan for the entire solo movie spinoffs

No 4.They have the risk of being seen as a superhero team(Fantastic Four,Xmen) instead of being seen as a superhero team up(Avengers) without Solos.


Now dont get me wrong,I think a JL movie can very much succeed without solos after all it has Bats and Supes. But there is no doubt in my mind it will have succeeded a whole lot more with solo movies leading up to it,and a lot easier.

Howver There are 2 main advantages to the no lead-ins approach though

1st advantage is that we get a Jl movie earlier than we would with Solos(its this main reason that blinds fans to all other disadvatnages of this approach)

2nd advantage is that Spinoff movies are less likely to fail financially.This advantage benefits the studios not the fans though.

It simply means that WB will be in less of a financial risk when releasing the solo movies.
I personally dont care for this though -kinda seems like that they dont beleive in their characters hence why they feel the need to have them sponge off Batman and Superman s popularity to simply have a chance at the big screen.But I cant deny its a good business decision

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Old 02-17-2013, 02:36 PM   #58
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 3

1. It's Superman and Batman. There aren't going to be that many people who will see the appeal of Wonder Woman, Flash, and Green Lantern but not Superman and Batman. But even so, they can hype up the characters with trailers.

2. That's a writing issue and you would have to do that anyway for the people who didn't see the lead-ins.

And Green Lantern has a movie.

3. That's also a writing issue that would be present with lead-ins. You need a talented, understanding writer no matter what.

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theres a good possibility of making a mistake since he is focusing on so many characters
It's five. Lots of movies have five well-written characters.

4. Superman, Batman, and Green Lantern have their own recent movies. Wonder Woman is a cultural icon who has a TV show that's still fairly in the public memory. That leaves Flash, who gets referenced to 20 million people a week on Big Bang Theory and had his own, lesser known TV show as well.

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2nd advantage is that Spinoff movies are less likely to fail financially.This advantage benefits the studios not the fans though.
Yeah. We sure are getting screwed what with the movies based on characters we love being more successful and likely assuring more movies.

The success of EVERYTHING is dependent on being done well.

But this is what you prefer. Not what makes it best. There are advantages and disadvantages to everything. If everything goes as planned it all works out with either method. But the Marvel way is the only way we've seen it done. There's no way of knowing. At least until we see the numbers for The Dark World and The Winter Soldier.

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Old 02-17-2013, 03:03 PM   #59
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 3

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They could at this point. Beall was writing for a year before word got out.
El Mayimbe does seem pretty adamant that JL is still a priority for WB, despite recent setbacks.

This is what I could gather from his somewhat vague tweets:

-A JL movie is still going ahead despite WB throwing away Beall's script. But that they had only done so recently after the failure of Gangster Squad.

-A JL movie is a priority over a MOS sequel at this point.

-A director rumoured for SW looks to be free now after the confirmation of SW Ep. VII. In my opinion, I believe that director is Zack Snyder, who expressed interest in making his "Seven Samurai" style Star Wars movie.

-Comic-Con is the place to make the big announcement about this, since WB are pretty confident that Man of Steel will be a hit at that point. (ElMayimbe even retweeted Cavill's comment about a decision on the JL movie being made after MOS opening weekend.)

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Old 02-17-2013, 03:42 PM   #60
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 3

What he said. ^^

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Old 02-17-2013, 03:47 PM   #61
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 3

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-A JL movie is a priority over a MOS sequel at this point.
That saddens me.

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Old 02-17-2013, 04:22 PM   #62
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 3

lol

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Old 02-17-2013, 04:39 PM   #63
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 3

How can there be JL panel in comic con given that they have no cast members yet

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Old 02-17-2013, 04:48 PM   #64
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 3

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How can there be JL panel in comic con given that they have no cast members yet
Not a JL panel, but a WB panel. When promoting other movies, WB may take time to make an announcement regarding the JL movie.

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Old 02-17-2013, 04:56 PM   #65
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I'd be stunned if WB has anything to say at this point other then its still in development.

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Old 02-17-2013, 05:09 PM   #66
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I really hope they change that decision to focus on JL before MOS sequel. Rushing into this movie will only hurt it. I'm not saying they need to have individual movies, but don't rush a movie into a release date without working on it.

From what I hear, they can't even get someone to write a script. I really hope they don't go through with this and mess up JL for me.

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Old 02-17-2013, 05:21 PM   #67
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 3

That script rewrite thing is only a rumor at this point. For all we know they still have a script.

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Old 02-17-2013, 06:15 PM   #68
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Just do a worlds finest with Batman and Superman. At the end, have them realize a bigger threat is coming and they will need to find more people like them. Then do a solo WW and Flash. Then a Justice League with Jon Stewart for Green Lantern.

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Old 02-17-2013, 06:35 PM   #69
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 3

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-A JL movie is a priority over a MOS sequel at this point.
That's not true...WB know they will be doing a sequel to MoS, unl ss it totally flops...and no one believe that. They are simply trying to find a way to JL within the approach being establish by MoS, while trying to figure out what to do with Batman and GL. Every other character will spinoff from that...that much we know is clear. JL is not a priority over a MoS sequel....a sequel is a given.

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Old 02-17-2013, 07:00 PM   #70
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That's not true...WB know they will be doing a sequel to MoS, unl ss it totally flops...and no one believe that. They are simply trying to find a way to JL within the approach being establish by MoS, while trying to figure out what to do with Batman and GL. Every other character will spinoff from that...that much we know is clear. JL is not a priority over a MoS sequel....a sequel is a given.
I'm talking about what is next after MOS is released, and what ElMayimbe was implying in his tweets. The whole debate last week was that a MOS trilogy would hold off a JL movie. ElMayimbe was saying that a JL movie is still the plan. I don't doubt that a MOS sequel is inevitable if MOS is a hit, just that it won't be the next project until they figure out JL, since Superman has to figure in that too.

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Old 02-17-2013, 07:54 PM   #71
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Why does everyone think a new Batman will hurt JL? I really don't see why it would be that big of a problem since a Batman reboot with a new actor in the role is nothing new by now. We've been having it for decades already. I would say Batman is currently the only superhero that has reached James Bond level in that regard, or at least the closest to reaching James Bond level.

Even Spider-Man, who had a lot more people against his reboot than the average reboot usually has, still didn't have that many people against his reboot simply because it was a reboot in comparison to all the people in the general audience that didn't have a problem with Spider-Man rebooted.

On top of that, half or more of the people that gave The Amazing Spider-Man crap for being a reboot mainly gave it crap because it retold the origin. The chances of a Batman reboot retelling the origin are slim. It will most likely just jump right in with an already established Batman or it will just briefly retell the origin.

I think people are underestimating what Batman in general is able to do with his popularity and status he is at today. Arkham Asylum and Arkham City are some of the best selling and most well received video games of the 7th generation of consoles and they didn't need Nolan's name on them.

As long as the new Batman looks cool and is well written, he will be able to attract an audience for JL.

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I agree completely with your points; however, I think the sucess of JL is going to be marginal, certainly not Avengers sucess level, regardless of WB/DC decide the lead-in approach or not. I for one say make your own mark by establishing JL first to help launch solo film...simply because, they have been struggling to get solo films out of the gate, outside of Bats & Supes.

Look how long it to to get GL out...and it flopped. The Marvel approach is not going to work as well for DC...they been trying now for how long? Longer than Marvel Entertainment Studios existence.
The problem is that they haven't tried hard enough outside of Batman and Superman. GL was by no means them putting their full effort into the movie.

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Old 02-17-2013, 08:46 PM   #72
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A new batman won't hurt anything. No one will get confused, and if they do they're too stupid to be out in public . It's just the fanboy perspective of "I know exactly what every non comic book fan moviegoer is thinking at all times."

All this talk about lead ins and the need for it? It's not going to do anything for wb bc people will just say they are copying the marvel formula but are yrs late. A big point for avengers was that people didn't need to see the lead ins to understand avengers. The same goes for JL, they can do whatever but in the end they want to make money, and fast. Waiting for leadins will hinder that plan.

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Old 02-17-2013, 09:19 PM   #73
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The problem is that they haven't tried hard enough outside of Batman and Superman. GL was by no means them putting their full effort into the movie.
I think they put a legit amount of effort in it...I just think they miss calculated the approach by making it more family/kid friendly because who was playing the lead(who is thought of as a comedic actor). They made it like-hearted like the Raimi Spiderman and Fantastic Four. They simply chose poorly, the approach.

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Old 02-17-2013, 09:24 PM   #74
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I think they put a legit amount of effort in it...I just think they miss calculated the approach by making it more family/kid friendly because who was playing the lead(who is thought of as a comedic actor). They made it like-hearted like the Raimi Spiderman and Fantastic Four. They simply chose poorly, the approach.
One does not simply choose poorly. They spent a while making gl, the original script where legion was the villain, as a hive mind type of enemy run by the man hunters or something. Plus Alan Scott was in it, and it was a much better setup for a shared universe. Remember when they were going to make gl a comedy starring jack black?

They just don't get it, nor do they respect the characters enough to make a great film.

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Old 02-17-2013, 09:32 PM   #75
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Sorry dude, but they did exactly that. There have been many article suggesting they tried to mold the character around Ryan's persona...which mean they chosed the wrong approach to GL.

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