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Old 02-23-2013, 11:47 PM   #226
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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Unfortunately, they are not written as ensemble movies. They are still written as traditional, sole-protagonist (Wolverine) stories.
No they’re not.

If they were traditional, sole-protagonist stories, we wouldn’t have multiple protagonists and be jaunting off quite so often for adventures with Jean and Storm, or Storm and Nightcrawler, or Kitty and Bobby, or Bobby and Rogue. Or Cyclops and Jean. Or Beast. Or Angel. And so on and so forth.

They’re ensemble films. They’re written as such.

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Again, I am not arguing that supporting characters should not be in the movie! But scenes that do not contribute to moving the plot forward, characterization of the main characters, or theme of the film should not be in it imo.
That may be your opinion...but its also your opinion that the scenes don’t move the plot forward, because they actually do. Just not the two plots that were focused on in the original argument, those of The Cure and Phoenix. However, they do move the plot of “Charles Xavier’s X-Men” along.

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Storm delivering exposition or Storm talking to major characters & helping their characterization are great (and if her character is developed in the process, all the better!). Scenes that exist just because the Studio and/or Halle think Storm needs more screentime and characterization are not so great because they create a weaker story structure.
This just sounds like bias against Halle Berry and FOX, to be honest. The fans thought Storm needed more screentime and characterization, too (read: more of an impact in the story). Storm IS a major character. She’s a key part of the X-Men ensemble, and has been since X-MEN.

And the scenes with Storm didn’t create a weaker story structure. They actually created a stronger, more complex story structure. They added emotional depth and plot depth to the story itself.

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I never said I wanted to get rid of Storm; I like Storm. I just said that the Storm we got was inconsequential. She was a case of the script telling us, but not showing us character development.
She wasn’t inconsequential, though. She has an impact on the events within the story.

The script and film SHOWED character development, too. They SHOWED Storm becoming a leader. She wasn’t just walking around saying “Now I will become a leader”. There’s one line of dialogue in the beginning where Xavier says he always thought she could take his place. Then we see a whole film where she gradually takes on more of a leadership role.

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Sure, you could say her arc consisted of her taking on the leader role after the death of Cyclops and Xavier. But their wasn't a single instance of her leading.
Yes there was. There were several instances of her leading.

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That was Wolverine's arc. She said they'd keep the school open, but that was a single sentence in the movie.
No, that was just the culmination of a series of sequences showing her taking on a leadership role.

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It felt like any character could have said "and it still is" to Angel and the school would have stayed open. It doesn't help that after three movies I don't know Storm's personality.
Maybe we haven’t seen her comic book persona so much. But you should be able to figure out her personality in the filmverse based on what three films have shown.

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Old 02-23-2013, 11:50 PM   #227
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

Please give me examples of Storm leading in The Last Stand, and explain how Storm has a consistent personality throughout the three films (because she feels like a different character in each movie).

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Old 02-23-2013, 11:51 PM   #228
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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Please give me examples of Storm leading in The Last Stand
Are you sure you really want to open that can of worms? And with The Guard of all people? LOL I don't think you do.

But if you must, I suggest you do so here: http://forums.superherohype.com/show...=453235&page=4

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Old 02-24-2013, 12:00 AM   #229
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

Fair enough. To get things back on topic.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

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Old 02-24-2013, 07:39 AM   #230
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

I'm in the camp that Cyke isn't dead just MIA.

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Old 02-24-2013, 07:40 AM   #231
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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Unfortunately, they are not written as ensemble movies. They are still written as traditional, sole-protagonist (Wolverine) stories. It's actually very difficult to write and make an effective (and real) ensemble movie. I think Joss Whedon succeeded with Avengers because he was used to juggling an ensemble on Buffy, Angel, and Firefly.
Then there's the problem right there. They are not written properly. They should be ensemble movies and they are not.

Hugh Jackman is vastly overpaid for a tiresomely over-dominant role in what should be an ensemble series.

Riding roughshod over the core values of the comic book series is not going to win many fans. And it's starting to show. The hardcore comic book fanatics and Marvel followers are now turning against Fox's superhero films because they believe them to be wildly off-course from the original spirit of the comics. There were online campaigns urging people not to go and see X-Men: First Class.

The Avengers is proof that there is another way to do this - and that it can be vastly successful. Not only did the geeks love Avengers, but so did the mainstream fans and also the critics. Even the stuffy mainstream critics who would normally turn their noses up at such material felt that Whedon nailed it with the film. Whatever imperfections it might have had, it was not Iron Man & The Superhero Wallpaper. We had scenes devoted to Hulk, we had Captain America taking charge in the final battle.

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Again, I am not arguing that supporting characters should not be in the movie! But scenes that do not contribute to moving the plot forward, characterization of the main characters, or theme of the film should not be in it imo. Storm delivering exposition or Storm talking to major characters & helping their characterization are great (and if her character is developed in the process, all the better!). Scenes that exist just because the Studio and/or Halle think Storm needs more screentime and characterization are not so great because they create a weaker story structure.
Then supporting characters should be given a better presence. If it's that difficult to make Storm's role important to the plot, then the writers shouldn't be writing X-Men. Let's see someone who understands ensembles and how to write them. What a shame Joss Whedon isn't free and that Marvel is now holding on to him as tight as it can.

If a screenwriter's skills only go as far as single-protagonist projects, then why the heck are they writing something like X-Men? They aren't the right person for the job. It can't be that difficult to spread the screentime a little more and give supporting characters a valuable contribution. And now that Rothman is gone, there must be fewer studio pressures.

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Old 02-24-2013, 01:35 PM   #232
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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Then there's the problem right there. They are not written properly. They should be ensemble movies and they are not.

Hugh Jackman is vastly overpaid for a tiresomely over-dominant role in what should be an ensemble series.

Riding roughshod over the core values of the comic book series is not going to win many fans. And it's starting to show. The hardcore comic book fanatics and Marvel followers are now turning against Fox's superhero films because they believe them to be wildly off-course from the original spirit of the comics. There were online campaigns urging people not to go and see X-Men: First Class.

The Avengers is proof that there is another way to do this - and that it can be vastly successful. Not only did the geeks love Avengers, but so did the mainstream fans and also the critics. Even the stuffy mainstream critics who would normally turn their noses up at such material felt that Whedon nailed it with the film. Whatever imperfections it might have had, it was not Iron Man & The Superhero Wallpaper. We had scenes devoted to Hulk, we had Captain America taking charge in the final battle.



Then supporting characters should be given a better presence. If it's that difficult to make Storm's role important to the plot, then the writers shouldn't be writing X-Men. Let's see someone who understands ensembles and how to write them. What a shame Joss Whedon isn't free and that Marvel is now holding on to him as tight as it can.

If a screenwriter's skills only go as far as single-protagonist projects, then why the heck are they writing something like X-Men? They aren't the right person for the job. It can't be that difficult to spread the screentime a little more and give supporting characters a valuable contribution. And now that Rothman is gone, there must be fewer studio pressures.
I agree. It seems like with most the X films you get: here's character X. This is their mutation. back to Wolverine.
Other than Wolverine,Magneto,Xavier,and hell,even Stryker in X2, the rest of the characters are just kind of their. At least to me. We got a good Nightcrawler as well,but was dropped just as fast as he appeared.

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Old 02-24-2013, 02:02 PM   #233
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

Jesus.This Is X-Men subsection.can't people leave the avengers worship In other threads.X-Men Is different than Avengers.Hopefully with Rothman gone and giving X-Men both time and money we get something that can blow the other X-Men films away and Is sasstifying adaptan of Days of future past.If you hate all X-Men films and just love MS films you have Avengers,Cap,Iron Man,Thor,GOTG,Ant-Man,and Mis Marvel films sections to post In.

Avengers had the following characters
1:Tony Stark
2:Iron Man
3:Captain America
4:Thor
5:Bruce Banner
6:Nick fury
7:Black widow
8:Hawkeye
9:Hulk
10:Loki
11:COlson
12:Maria Hill
13:Selvig

Plus Pepper potts cameo and aline army.

Now let's look at just who we know about In DOFP

1:Xavier In past
2:Xavier In future
3:Magneto In past
4:Magneto In future
5:Wolverine(so far only In future)
6:Mystique(So far only In Past)
7:Beast In past
8:Rogue
9:Kitty Pryde
10:Iceman
11:Peter Dinklage character
12:Richard Nixon In 1973(uncasted for now)

The sentinles are equilvent of alien army and If Cyclops and Jean grey show up In altered future In end they could be equilvent of pepper cameos.

But you could have Havok,Banshee,Emma Frost,Azarel possibly Moira mactaggert,Angel salvotore and Riptide In 1973 and that's not even talking about any poential new character that might show up.And that's not even mentioning possibilty of Storm,Mystique,Colossus,and Nightcrawler In future.Plus possibilty of FF crossover by franklin richards cameo.

There Is going to be more characters In DOFP than Avengers.People need to accept some will be more Important than others.avengers Is still at end of day focused heavily on Tony Stark and Captain America.

Hugh Jackman Is equilvent of Robert Downey JR In X-Men franchise.It's one thing to hope for a better balance between him and other top characters but to just to dismiss Hugh as some seem to be doing Is crazy.Plus noone knows the size of his role yet.

Some people will never be happy with any X-Men films or FF as long as Fox and not disney are doing them.X-Men days of future past could gross 250 Million domesicly and hit 90 percent on RT and they still wouldn't be happy.

And Magneto In First Class was the equilvent of Wolverine so even In film with Wolverine In just a cameo there iS clear focus.

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Old 02-24-2013, 03:22 PM   #234
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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Originally Posted by marvelrobbins View Post

Some people will never be happy with any X-Men films or FF as long as Fox and not disney are doing them.X-Men days of future past could gross 250 Million domesicly and hit 90 percent on RT and they still wouldn't be happy.
Not so. People will never be happy with any sub-par X-Men or FF films at FOX. For awhile FOX had a complete monopoly on this game. The game has changed and now they are running seriously behind to catch up to Marvel. Let's call a spade, a spade shall we?

And by the way, no one is "worshipping" The Avengers. But give credit where it's due: they NAILED the balanced, ensemble "feeling" of the comic. FOX has failed miserably in this regard and you know it. You should be thrilled that the benchmark has been raised so high by The Avengers, since it's making all of the other studios bust their asses for once. It's not Marvel's fault they did a good job that makes FOX productions look like s*** by comparison.

After all, these are Marvel characters. All of them.


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Old 02-24-2013, 03:27 PM   #235
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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Originally Posted by marvelrobbins View Post
Jesus.This Is X-Men subsection.can't people leave the avengers worship In other threads.X-Men Is different than Avengers.Hopefully with Rothman gone and giving X-Men both time and money we get something that can blow the other X-Men films away and Is sasstifying adaptan of Days of future past.If you hate all X-Men films and just love MS films you have Avengers,Cap,Iron Man,Thor,GOTG,Ant-Man,and Mis Marvel films sections to post In.

Avengers had the following characters
1:Tony Stark
2:Iron Man
3:Captain America
4:Thor
5:Bruce Banner
6:Nick fury
7:Black widow
8:Hawkeye
9:Hulk
10:Loki
11:COlson
12:Maria Hill
13:Selvig

Plus Pepper potts cameo and aline army.

Now let's look at just who we know about In DOFP

1:Xavier In past
2:Xavier In future
3:Magneto In past
4:Magneto In future
5:Wolverine(so far only In future)
6:Mystique(So far only In Past)
7:Beast In past
8:Rogue
9:Kitty Pryde
10:Iceman
11:Peter Dinklage character
12:Richard Nixon In 1973(uncasted for now)

The sentinles are equilvent of alien army and If Cyclops and Jean grey show up In altered future In end they could be equilvent of pepper cameos.

But you could have Havok,Banshee,Emma Frost,Azarel possibly Moira mactaggert,Angel salvotore and Riptide In 1973 and that's not even talking about any poential new character that might show up.And that's not even mentioning possibilty of Storm,Mystique,Colossus,and Nightcrawler In future.Plus possibilty of FF crossover by franklin richards cameo.

There Is going to be more characters In DOFP than Avengers.People need to accept some will be more Important than others.avengers Is still at end of day focused heavily on Tony Stark and Captain America.

Hugh Jackman Is equilvent of Robert Downey JR In X-Men franchise.It's one thing to hope for a better balance between him and other top characters but to just to dismiss Hugh as some seem to be doing Is crazy.Plus noone knows the size of his role yet.

Some people will never be happy with any X-Men films or FF as long as Fox and not disney are doing them.X-Men days of future past could gross 250 Million domesicly and hit 90 percent on RT and they still wouldn't be happy.

And Magneto In First Class was the equilvent of Wolverine so even In film with Wolverine In just a cameo there iS clear focus.
The only X film I really don't like is X3. Hell, I'm even a fan of XOW.
My only gripe with the X films is that their are too many characters that just don't feel important. And I see your points. You have to give the X films the benefit of the doubt because they can't do solo films for every character (like the avengers). But still, in the Avengers every character seemed to have a purpose. The only X film where I felt Cyclops remotely had a purpose was the first film. Xavier was conveniently taken out of all three original films (give or take) around the halfway point. Storm was,well the character left a lot to be desired,etc.

Now another point all give you is that I feel the X movies are great and it's only in light of the Avengers I think they begin to pale a bit,but alas,I have faith for Days Of Future Past. I believe it could very well turn into the thinking mans version of the Avengers.
Where as the Avengers maybe a catchy pop song that hits all the right chords Days of Future Past could very well be a great progressive rock song which other songs aspire too. Sure the general public may prefer the hooky chorus of the pop song but us hardcore musicians know the intricacy of the progressive rock song is something much more deeply satisfying. (enough with the bad analogies on my part). I guess what I'm trying to say is I totally get what you're saying and it's not my intention to just causally piss down the back of every X Men movie. I'm a fan and love them and that's why i'm so passionate about them.

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Old 02-24-2013, 03:42 PM   #236
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

Well, the fact is believe it or not, one day there will be ANOTHER Mega-blockbuster film that makes The Avengers look like s***. I remember when people believed that Tobey Magurie's Spider-Man was like, blessed by Jesus himself. But we're not talking about Tobey and Kirsten anymore, are we? And look at how quickly we all moved on from the travesties of Tim Story's Fantastic Four (I can't believe I was once such an ardent supporter of FOX 9 years ago. So f***ing embarrassing. ).

The fact is, these films are like Apple iPhones, there are always new upgrades and technology coming out. And as special effects improve, along with better writers, directors and producers, these movies will continue to elevate themselves to greater heights. I say we embrace it and be thankful for the push for excellency at some of these studios.

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Old 02-24-2013, 03:50 PM   #237
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by marvelrobbins View Post
Jesus.This Is X-Men subsection.can't people leave the avengers worship In other threads.X-Men Is different than Avengers.Hopefully with Rothman gone and giving X-Men both time and money we get something that can blow the other X-Men films away and Is sasstifying adaptan of Days of future past.If you hate all X-Men films and just love MS films you have Avengers,Cap,Iron Man,Thor,GOTG,Ant-Man,and Mis Marvel films sections to post In.

Avengers had the following characters
1:Tony Stark
2:Iron Man
3:Captain America
4:Thor
5:Bruce Banner
6:Nick fury
7:Black widow
8:Hawkeye
9:Hulk
10:Loki
11:COlson
12:Maria Hill
13:Selvig

Plus Pepper potts cameo and aline army.

Now let's look at just who we know about In DOFP

1:Xavier In past
2:Xavier In future
3:Magneto In past
4:Magneto In future
5:Wolverine(so far only In future)
6:Mystique(So far only In Past)
7:Beast In past
8:Rogue
9:Kitty Pryde
10:Iceman
11:Peter Dinklage character
12:Richard Nixon In 1973(uncasted for now)

The sentinles are equilvent of alien army and If Cyclops and Jean grey show up In altered future In end they could be equilvent of pepper cameos.

But you could have Havok,Banshee,Emma Frost,Azarel possibly Moira mactaggert,Angel salvotore and Riptide In 1973 and that's not even talking about any poential new character that might show up.And that's not even mentioning possibilty of Storm,Mystique,Colossus,and Nightcrawler In future.Plus possibilty of FF crossover by franklin richards cameo.

There Is going to be more characters In DOFP than Avengers.People need to accept some will be more Important than others.avengers Is still at end of day focused heavily on Tony Stark and Captain America.

Hugh Jackman Is equilvent of Robert Downey JR In X-Men franchise.It's one thing to hope for a better balance between him and other top characters but to just to dismiss Hugh as some seem to be doing Is crazy.Plus noone knows the size of his role yet.

Some people will never be happy with any X-Men films or FF as long as Fox and not disney are doing them.X-Men days of future past could gross 250 Million domesicly and hit 90 percent on RT and they still wouldn't be happy.

And Magneto In First Class was the equilvent of Wolverine so even In film with Wolverine In just a cameo there iS clear focus.
We're not worshipping Avengers - in my view, it fell short in several ways - but it is going to be seen as a reference point for an ensemble movie that has been a financial, critical, mainstream and fan success.

With DoFP, it's the choice of the studio, Singer and writers to include at least two characters who appear twice (Xavier, Magneto) - and there may be more yet. The good thing is that none of those are new introductions, so we don't need backstory.

Yes, there will be sacrifices that have to be made. And it's down to Singer and the writers to make that work, and to make those sacrifices convincing to the fans and mainstream viewers.

This is definitely a film that needs skilful handling as well as a long running time.

X2 managed to include Xavier, Wolverine, Magneto, Storm, Jean, Cyclops, Rogue, Mystique, Nightcrawler, William Stryker, Jason Stryker, Pyro, Iceman, Senator Kelly, Deathstrike, Kitty, the President, Siryn, Jones, Laurio, Colossus, Bobby's parents and brother. The balance worked out pretty well, when you consider the large cast. Yes, there were some casualties (like Cyclops disappeared for half of the movie) and arguably the structure of the story could have been changed to remove a couple of the people above.

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Old 02-24-2013, 05:14 PM   #238
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

THE AVENGERS didn't exactly give us a "complete" portrayal of the heroes on the team, anymore so than the X-Men movies have. What it did was check off the "big, obvious comic book tropes" that people have wanted to see. We got to see a leader barking tactical orders, big battles, etc. But I wouldn't say that the Avengers successes in an ensemble work indicate that the X-Men franchise should be handled the same way.

For one thing, the actual ensemble interaction wasn't exactly interesting. Much of the character interaction was actually rather juvenile. I'll take the few scenes of
real emotion that characters got in the X-Men movies and different types of ensemble interaction over "Oooh, The Avengers can't get along, but now they can" any day of the week. Joss made a fun movie. But it's not like the X-Men movies haven't also been fun.

I just don't think people are fair or honest with themselves when comparing these franchises, and it seems people condemn the X-films for things they give other superhero franchises a pass on.

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Old 02-24-2013, 05:37 PM   #239
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

Avengers gave fans and audiences what they wanted to see. Record breaking Box office, DVD sales, critic ratings and Fan reaction proves this. Im sure like any movie there are some who disagree, but thats a minority.They havnt used the X Men to their potential...yet. Which is why people ***** so much. So much untapped potential with powers and X Men characters 101. Fan faves like Cyclops, Storm, Rogue, Deadpool, Gambit and Iceman have all been a let down in some way. With 5 movies in that is not a good thing.

That will change next year.


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Old 02-24-2013, 06:02 PM   #240
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

Quote:
Avengers gave fans and audiences what they wanted to see. Record breaking Box office, DVD sales, critic ratings and Fan reaction proves this. Im sure like any movie there are some who disagree, but thats a minority.
THE AVENGERS gave fans and audiences some of what they wanted to see. It didn't exactly deliver everything, or come close to reaching the potential of the concepts and characters involved.

Quote:
They havnt used the X Men to their potential...yet. Which is why people ***** so much. So much untapped potential with powers and X Men characters 101. Fan faves like Cyclops, Storm, Rogue, Deadpool, Gambit and Iceman have all been a let down in some way. With 5 movies in that is not a good thing.
No, they haven't. If you're not biased, I think you can easily make that argument about THE AVENGERS and the characters in that, and to be honest, with any superhero franchise. And many Avengers fans have said, and continue to say just that.

What people seem to discount here is that a lot of the reason that THE AVENGERS was able to deliver in certain areas (big comic book moments) has to do with when it was made, and is partially due to advances in visual effects, which is part of the reason that some of those films could finally be made appropriately in the first place. But even with that considered, the X-Men films have delivered on similar levels in the past.

The X-Men films have always suffered somewhat, or at least had to contend with a problem of budget/special effects, because special effects just weren't to the point where they could be done more cost-efficiently, and this holds true for most superhero films, leading to limits on characters, powers, etc.

Times are changing though, and as more recent superhero efforts, including X-MEN: FIRST CLASS show, you can do more effectswise with with less money now. I'm excited for the possibilities in DAYS OF FUTURE PAST.

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Old 02-24-2013, 06:10 PM   #241
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

I much prefer X Men stories and characters over The Avengers. Movie wise Im the opposite but I like FC and X2 and think they hold their own well. Besides Wolverine, Mags, Nightcrawler and Prof X not much has been done well character wise though.. It sucks to say Ive never seen my favorite characters shown much justice. Avengers showed alot of potential for their characters as a team for the first time. Nobody was damaged during the process. Gotta disagree with anyone who says Avengers and X men are both on the same level as far as adaptations and fan base pleasing. Just dont think thats accurate given the reception between the franchises.


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Old 02-24-2013, 06:17 PM   #242
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

The Avengers(or should I say the Ultimates since that Is what the avengers film was If your honest) and X-Men are totally different beasts.X-Men should take opportunity to go bigger now that Fox Is giving them more money and time.But X-Men should never try to ripoff the avengers film.

X-Men has more depth than the Avengers.I have never been able to stick reading the Avengers comics(and I mean avengers not Ultimates) like I have the X-Men untill the Quesdea regime drove me to quit buying new marvel comics In 2005.

I have defently had concerns with It being Mark Millar marvel hired as consulant since he's primarly connected to ultimate line from his marvel work.Although It's funny how some on boards critize him now since because he works on Fox marvel films and yet he was responable for some of comics marvel Is basing it's films on.

unless they change time travel to physical one from switching minds I am willing to beat the main focus of this film Is going to be Past-Xavier,Beast,Magneto,Mystique and Peter
Dinklage charactr and future-Xavier,Magneto,and Wolverine(assuming he's not time traveler) the rest will be second fiddle to them.

while I like Cyclops I understand when films beguin why he wasn't given focus.SOme tend to forget In Comics he has been short changed and written out of team for peroids.

Unfortutly because of Rothman and Ratner they have problems trying to use him In DOFP.

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Old 02-24-2013, 06:20 PM   #243
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

Hes barely left out of the comics, and thats no excuse for leaving out Cyclops or playing down/ruining other characters. Which is why I have problems with this franchise. But this argument is nothing new. Just about every X Men character is a let down imo. Again, I think that will change and Singer knows what hes doing here.

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Old 02-24-2013, 06:24 PM   #244
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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Not so. People will never be happy with any sub-par X-Men or FF films at FOX. For awhile FOX had a complete monopoly on this game. The game has changed and now they are running seriously behind to catch up to Marvel. Let's call a spade, a spade shall we?

And by the way, no one is "worshipping" The Avengers. But give credit where it's due: they NAILED the balanced, ensemble "feeling" of the comic. FOX has failed miserably in this regard and you know it. You should be thrilled that the benchmark has been raised so high by The Avengers, since it's making all of the other studios bust their asses for once. It's not Marvel's fault they did a good job that makes FOX productions look like s*** by comparison.

After all, these are Marvel characters. All of them.

Great post.

Some people are just mad at the attention the Avengers is getting. Avengers is only being brought up because X-Fans want the kind of balance the Avengers movie had. Its not about copying the tone or whatever.

And people need to stop using the lame "Oh, he was played down in the comics!" argument.

Out of a 50 year history, Cyclops has consistently been a major character. His hiatuses usually occur after he has played a big role in a major storyline.

In other words, its not the same as being in a movie for three minutes before being embarassingly killed off. Or being in a movie for three minutes before getting easily taken out by the henchmen and going MIA for most of the flick.

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Old 02-24-2013, 06:26 PM   #245
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

I have faith in Singer. He's gonna finish what he started. And that's a given. It's gonna be pretty crazy leading up to shooting the movie and through out so we'll see.

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Old 02-24-2013, 06:41 PM   #246
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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Great post.

Some people are just mad at the attention the Avengers is getting. Avengers is only being brought up because X-Fans want the kind of balance the Avengers movie had. Its not about copying the tone or whatever.
I can gurantee yous ome of more die hard Pro disney anti Fox people will never like DOFP even If It high success,huge critical sucess,and has good blance between both Xaviers,both Magnetos,Wolverine,Past Mystique,past Beast,and Peter Dinklage character.And gives nice little moments to Rogue,Kitty.

X-Men Is totally different beast than film version of Avengers.X-Men Is group that doesn't come together because shield brings them together,they don't need a death(soon to be rewritten) of Colson to go after villain,and Immedetly afterwords all go their own way.Since The Avengers Is basiclly the ultimates
that Is acceptable thing for them to do.It's not how you should X-Men.

I don't care the kind of attention of Avengers anymore than I care about the attention the god awful Michael Bay Transformers movies get.

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Old 02-24-2013, 06:51 PM   #247
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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X-Men Is totally different beast than film version of Avengers.X-Men Is group that doesn't come together because shield brings them together,they don't need a death(soon to be rewritten) of Colson to go after villain,and Immedetly afterwords all go their own way.Since The Avengers Is basiclly the ultimates
that Is acceptable thing for them to do.It's not how you should X-Men.
They're different, but they are still in the same league of films and anyone who says different is kidding themselves. Yes X Men deals with heavier themes. That doesnt take it out of being a Super team summer blockbuster about good guys fighting to save the world from destruction, Super villains and giant robots.

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Old 02-24-2013, 07:00 PM   #248
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

Well DOFP Is going to have more Heroes vs Villains(X-Men Vs Brotherhood) than you saw In Avengers(we may never see Avengers Vs Say Masters of evil on screen especilly since they keep killing off villains other than Loki.Ok The Abmoniation wasn't killed but nothing In The Incredible Hulk besides Banner/Hulk will likely be touched again.I am skeptical of the
Planet Hulk/World War Hulk rumors) and X-Men Vs sentinles Is something you haven't seen In The AVengers.And that certinly allows for plenty of spectcule.

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Old 02-24-2013, 07:05 PM   #249
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

Yeah, Im sure they definitely will bring some new stuff here. Its still a big budget super hero team movie though. DOFP and Avengers are probably gonna be the two most epic Marvel comic films people will go to and mention for quite some time after its released. Thats a good thing.


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Old 02-24-2013, 07:19 PM   #250
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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Great post.

Some people are just mad at the attention the Avengers is getting. Avengers is only being brought up because X-Fans want the kind of balance the Avengers movie had. Its not about copying the tone or whatever.

And people need to stop using the lame "Oh, he was played down in the comics!" argument.

Out of a 50 year history, Cyclops has consistently been a major character. His hiatuses usually occur after he has played a big role in a major storyline.

In other words, its not the same as being in a movie for three minutes before being embarassingly killed off. Or being in a movie for three minutes before getting easily taken out by the henchmen and going MIA for most of the flick.
Amen. Not having Cyclops as a main "face" of this franchise was a significantly lost opportunity. Soooo much could've been done with Scott Summers. Truly a waste.

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