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Old 02-23-2013, 11:17 AM   #176
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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Originally Posted by Lightning Strykez! View Post

It was like, "Whatever the hell you're doing, DROP IT, and come roll your ass out here and see me on the balcony BECAUSE I AM HALLE BERRY, OSCAR-WINNING ACTRESS AND I NEEDSSS SOME ATTENTION, DAMN IT!!!!"
i know what you mean, it does feel very forced

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him showing up at the end is better than him not showing up at all.
would james or Famke return just for a little cameo at the end? maybe even a few lines... if they lucky?

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Old 02-23-2013, 11:26 AM   #177
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

if famke is showing up for a cameo in Wolverine, I would hope she would show up for this movie...

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Old 02-23-2013, 11:30 AM   #178
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

if they do return hopefully no more love triangle with wolverine, jean and cyclops as its run its corse and look what happened there

maybe if they do appear at end it can have a moment between wolverine and jean where he tells her he accepts she is with scott

so we can put that to rest, wolverine learnt a lesson ect ect

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Old 02-23-2013, 12:15 PM   #179
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

Yeah I think the love triangle between Jean, Wolverine and Scott is done. Thing is though, Jean did flirt with Wolverine here and there but she knew in her heart that she belonged to Scott and no body else. If I were Wolverine, I would accept that she is with Scott but there is no denying that there still is an attraction between her and I. That will always be there, I think.

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Old 02-23-2013, 12:15 PM   #180
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

Yeah and then that would tease for a new movie where he can return as a main character. Marsden would do it, especially to become a superhero that is popular now....a opposed to his less than stellar status around 2000 X1 time.

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Old 02-23-2013, 12:16 PM   #181
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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They consciously wanted to depict Xavier with shades of grey, just like in the comics. But why the frick did they want to do it out of the blue in the trilogy when the other two movies didn't characterize him that way, and right before he died? Such a poorly written and thought out movie.
Because in the first two movies Prof X is quite a flat character - the kind, wise old man archetype with no depth. That little plot point added more dimension to Prof X than the entire first 2 movies! I think that was one of the strong points of X3.

And I don't think it was totally out of character for Prof X - he was trying to protect the world from Jean's power. It was a tough moral dilemma and he had to make a choice. The only odd bit of characterization imo is the "I'll have Jean braid your hair" line which was jut out of character (and an example of awful writing).

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Old 02-23-2013, 12:17 PM   #182
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

lol I still laugh at that line. heh.

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Old 02-23-2013, 01:09 PM   #183
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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lol I still laugh at that line. heh.
it was just so...awkward. It sounded forced and out of place. The Prof X from the previous movies wouldn't make such a lame, silly joke.


So does anyone think Singer was really hinting at Cyclops and Jean in the IGN interview? I think some people are looking to far into his reaction (not to mention so many sites spinning the answer). I'm hoping he was hinting at something though

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Old 02-23-2013, 01:41 PM   #184
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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Because in the first two movies Prof X is quite a flat character - the kind, wise old man archetype with no depth. That little plot point added more dimension to Prof X than the entire first 2 movies! I think that was one of the strong points of X3.

And I don't think it was totally out of character for Prof X - he was trying to protect the world from Jean's power. It was a tough moral dilemma and he had to make a choice. The only odd bit of characterization imo is the "I'll have Jean braid your hair" line which was jut out of character (and an example of awful writing).
I feel sure the 'I'll have Jean braid your hair line' is from X2, when Logan is smoking his cigar in Cerebro.

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Old 02-23-2013, 01:52 PM   #185
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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I feel sure the 'I'll have Jean braid your hair line' is from X2, when Logan is smoking his cigar in Cerebro.
It is.

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Old 02-23-2013, 02:25 PM   #186
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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You guys are crazy.
Your hate of x3 is causing you to overanalyze things.
Agreed. It's gotten a bit absurd.

Whining about Xavier making a joke about Einstein? It's not like Xavier's not had any levity to his character during this franchise. It's not out of character for Professor Xavier to make a funny now and then.

Whining about Xavier reacting with obvious concern when one of his students is creating dark clouds because she's upset as "unrealistic"? It may not be subtle (and that's actually kind of the point of the scene), but it's not really "forced" in any real sense. It's relevant to the characters, it showed us a new side of Storm's abilities, and of Storm herself. Why people whine about that is beyond me.

I don't believe that Xavier lacks depth in X-MEN and X2. He's a powerful, troubled and sometimes conflicted man with more going on than meets the eye, ans is gradually revealed in both X-MEN, X2 and X3.

Xavier was not just a "prick" in X3. He was portrayed as what he has always been. A powerful man with secrets under immense pressure. Some of them were revealed in X2, and then they were revealed more fully in X3, where we saw a different side of Xavier. Which, again, was the point. Seeing focus put on another side of Xavier.

Poor writing?

It's called "character development". Just because a character does something we haven't seen them do yet in a franchise does not mean its out of character, especially if it flows from what has transpired previously, and the reveal over what Xavier did regarding Jean very much did.

Think about what Xavier says about Jean in X2. What he reveals in X3 is a fairly logical progression of those smaller reveals in X2. It's not poor writing. It's the way you introduce a new concept, especially when that concept hasn't been given much attention in previous installments.

Xavier's not always such a nice guy in the comics. He's quite capable of being a duplicitous, manipulative, secretive, ends-justify-the-means guy. Some of you need to read some more X-Men comics. If anything, some of Xavier's BEST and most in-character moments are found in X3.

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Old 02-23-2013, 02:31 PM   #187
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

My only gripe with X3 is that Cyclops was written out so early. Had he been part of the story, and fought along side Wolverine, Storm, Beast, and the others, the movie could have been better than X2 for me.

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Old 02-23-2013, 03:45 PM   #188
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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Agreed. It's gotten a bit absurd.
Think about what Xavier says about Jean in X2. What he reveals in X3 is a fairly logical progression of those smaller reveals in X2. It's not poor writing. It's the way you introduce a new concept, especially when that concept hasn't been given much attention in previous installments.

Xavier's not always such a nice guy in the comics. He's quite capable of being a duplicitous, manipulative, secretive, ends-justify-the-means guy. Some of you need to read some more X-Men comics. If anything, some of Xavier's BEST and most in-character moments are found in X3.
I agree, but I stand by my comment about the "I'll have Jean braid your hair" is just an awful line. It's so "on the nose" and memorable (in a bad way). It's not like it affected the quality of the movie though.

The other Prof X characterization in X3 was great imo and not out of character. But I'd have to rewatch the other movies to notice other character moments, because I remember him as being a very flat character in X1 and X2 (other than having a past friendship with Magneto, which did add some depth I guess).

I think a lot complaints about X3 are rooted in some fans not liking who died and how Phoenix was handled as an alternate personality, but personally, I don't really care about that. I have major complaints with the story structure!


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Old 02-23-2013, 03:47 PM   #189
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

I would have preferred if Scott was alive and was the one who saved Jean in the end...who doesn't die but joins the X-Men again to fight against Magneto's brotherhood. that would have been cool to see.

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Old 02-23-2013, 04:07 PM   #190
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

My problem with X3 is the terrible characterisation, awful pacing, trite script and the fact that it's not a very well-made movie.

I couldn't care less who died, as long as their deaths were handled well.

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Old 02-23-2013, 04:15 PM   #191
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

the only scenes I really liked were the ones with Jean/Scott, Jean/Logan and Jean/Xavier. Wish there was more.

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Old 02-23-2013, 04:31 PM   #192
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

I agree it should have been Cyclops. Instead of her killing him, she should have risen as a fiery phoenix bird and he should have seen her fly away. Wolverine could stay in the film the same way up until Jean's house, where Cyclops knew to go along with Magneto and Xavier. Storm, Wolverine and Cyke could have fought the Brotherhood outside. Wolverine could still infiltrate the Brotherhood in the woods too, and return to speak to Cyclops about Jean's location. Show them, getting along like? And give Cyclops Wolverine's role at the end. Then the movie would have been a lot better for me. Oh and fiery phoenix bird. But whatever, I have faith in Singer and more Cyclops in the future.

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Old 02-23-2013, 04:45 PM   #193
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

Totally agree with you there, Great Mind(s) If you like, you can read my fan fic story I've been writing. and if anyone else is interested in reading it, just PM me.

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Old 02-23-2013, 04:55 PM   #194
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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The other Prof X characterization in X3 was great imo and not out of character. But I'd have to rewatch the other movies to notice other character moments, because I remember him as being a very flat character in X1 and X2 (other than having a past friendship with Magneto, which did add some depth I guess).
Well, he's flat in the sense that he doesn't really change much as a character, but they do develop the whole idea of him having a bit of a darker past, some secrets, etc.

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I have major complaints with the story structure!
That's an interesting comment. What do you mean by that?

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Old 02-23-2013, 05:37 PM   #195
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

I don't see how the balcony scene with Storm was in any way forced. If anything, it happened TOO LATE in the trilogy. It should have happened multiple times in the previous movies. Finally Ororo had a conversation with her mentor that didn't involve getting orders. It showed a bit of the personal side to those characters, which is something many fans wanted to see.

Actually the movie should have had more moments like that.

Thw whole "Scott's a changed man, you = next leader" scene though...that was weird. Not the idea of the scene, it had to happen, I get what they were trying to portray, Scott was different, they needed a field leader...but the script... the words, the fast approach to it, just made the Professor sound a bit heartless.


As for Scott and Jean, good news that Bryan wants them back, I still am not hoping for anything more than a cameo at the end though.

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Old 02-23-2013, 05:42 PM   #196
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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My problem with X3 is the terrible characterisation, awful pacing, trite script and the fact that it's not a very well-made movie.

I couldn't care less who died, as long as their deaths were handled well.
Agreed. My dislike of X3 has nothing to do with the actual story or who died, ect. I hate it because it's simply a sloppily made film. The mischaracterizations of most of the main players in the first two films, the ADD editing, the severe lack of subtlety, characters who are introduced for no reason other than to have a cool shot in the trailer (and it's those "trailer" moments that end up feeling out of place in the actual film like Logan just standing there with a random explosion behind him, or the way the camera stays held on Angel after he breaks out of his binds). But the worst thing is how most of the dialogue feels unnatural. It's like when you're watching a Tyler Perry movie and the melodrama is turned up to 11.


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Old 02-23-2013, 05:46 PM   #197
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

It's just very made-for-TV with a high budget.

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Old 02-23-2013, 06:01 PM   #198
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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Because in the first two movies Prof X is quite a flat character - the kind, wise old man archetype with no depth. That little plot point added more dimension to Prof X than the entire first 2 movies! I think that was one of the strong points of X3.
That still felt rather jarring to me. This kind of "unpeeling the layers" thing can work just fine, but here it felt like that side of Professor X was only there so that certain events can happen.

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Old 02-23-2013, 06:14 PM   #199
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

It was supposed to feel jarring. Its supposed to feel like "Whoa, there's this other side to Professor X".

Saying that this is only there so certain things can happen is a bit like saying "Well that part of a character's development is only there so the story can be more interesting".

Well, yeah. That's how writing works.

It's still part of his characterization.

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Old 02-23-2013, 06:18 PM   #200
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I suppose the word I was really after is "contrived".

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