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Old 02-20-2013, 05:58 PM   #51
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Default Re: State your unpopular film related opinion - - - Part 12

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Except Hannibal didn't bounce between being a legitimate menacing threat and a tongue in check farce of a villain.

To me, it constantly felt like they didn't know what to do with Silva. One minute he was Ledger's Joker, the next he was Hackman's Lex Luthor. It made for a very... Strange villain, IMO.
He's a Bond villain. They usually have strange quirks, looks, and tendencies as they're usually insane. I thought he was fun, yet interestingly tragic to watch.

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Old 02-20-2013, 06:05 PM   #52
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Default Re: State your unpopular film related opinion - - - Part 12

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He's a Bond villain. They usually have strange quirks, looks, and tendencies as they're usually insane. I thought he was fun, yet interestingly tragic to watch.
You're painting with a very broad brush right there.

Silva was WAY over the top in comparison to most other Bond villains - excluding Moore's intentionally satirical villains, of course.

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Old 02-20-2013, 06:10 PM   #53
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Default Re: State your unpopular film related opinion - - - Part 12

More over the top than Christopher Walken's Max Zorin, who shot a bunch of his henchmen?

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Old 02-20-2013, 06:16 PM   #54
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More over the top than Christopher Walken's Max Zorin, who shot a bunch of his henchmen?
I said excluding Moore's movies.

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Old 02-20-2013, 06:17 PM   #55
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Default Re: State your unpopular film related opinion - - - Part 12

And shooting Henchmen or being a tragic character doesn't really pertain to what I'm talking about. I'm talking about his actual performance. The mannerisms, the random giggling, etc.

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Old 02-20-2013, 06:20 PM   #56
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Default Re: State your unpopular film related opinion - - - Part 12

There are any number of Bond villains more cartoonish than Silva, not just Moore's.

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Old 02-20-2013, 06:21 PM   #57
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Such as?

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Old 02-20-2013, 06:34 PM   #58
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Default Re: State your unpopular film related opinion - - - Part 12

Everyone in Diamonds are Forever, from the gay henchmen to Charles Gray's Blofield. Even Oddjob is pretty silly in Goldfinger.

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Old 02-20-2013, 06:42 PM   #59
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Default Re: State your unpopular film related opinion - - - Part 12

Do we really want to say that Skyfall is even in the same league as DAF? Terrible film.

But that aside, yes, characters like Oddjob are pretty silly. But again, I'm speaking of the performance itself. The actor who played Oddjob played the character prett straight; he didn't add any giggling or exaggeration to make his already silly character sillier.

On paper, I think I would wholly agree that Silva has a pretty strong balance of fun and sorrow, but Bardem played the role with this kind of reckless abandon that - as I said - didn't always work. In some instances, he was creepy and hell and quite threatening, in others, it just seemed satirical to me.

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Old 02-20-2013, 07:08 PM   #60
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Default Re: State your unpopular film related opinion - - - Part 12

One thing I liked about Silva, was that he never gave up, and was thirsty for some more.

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Old 02-20-2013, 07:48 PM   #61
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That's your loss. I feel the exact opposite.

I felt it was far superior to The Dark Knight Rises, too. Especially in the writing department.
There was no quality to the villain. What was he about? He felt betrayed by M, wanted revenge and... That's it. That's his whole thing. Different than any other villain how? Let's not confuse good acting (albeit goofy in several instances) and a few superficial surprises (the gay thing) as depth when it came out of nowhere and went nowhere. What was the point of the physical deformity? What was the point of directly copying - damn near beat for beat - The Dark Knight in several instances? None. All those 'witty' lines? There was maybe one time it actually got a laugh (the bulldog statuette on M's desk). Everything else was forced, slowly and blandly delivered, and poorly edited, successfully sucking any potential energy out of the scene. What was that scene between the French girl and Bond on the floating Casino? That scene went on for far too long and tried too hard for too little pay off.

There were several scenes that exemplify the lack of originality and forced nature of the writing. The entire "Prison Escape". It was stolen from TDK, and not done as well. Q was stupid enough to plug the bad guys computers (which had previously somehow blown up Mi6) into the mainframe, while Silva performs his Joker escape... and then this brilliant movie uses a few classic action tropes... and *****s them up. For instance: There's a locked door in the subway. This is an action movie. Everyone in the audience knows the solution - Shoot the lock. You've done it a hundred times over the course of 23 movies, and so has every action hero ever. Don't try to create false tension if you don't have the skill or originality to write/direct such a scene.

I'm not even going to get into the end with Alfre- Oh, I mean 'Kincaide' which again came out of nowhere and served NO purpose other than trying to make Bond into Batman. It's too painful to talk about.

And those are just the 'little' problems (that add up to big ones). I won't get into the overall confused tone of having the young Bond act like this is the end of his career, the undermining and over the top Aston Martin reveal, non-sensical themes etc.

As far as the big blockbuster movies of the year go, it was better/better written than Prometheus and The Hobbit. Which is just not saying much at all.

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Old 02-20-2013, 09:21 PM   #62
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Default Re: State your unpopular film related opinion - - - Part 12

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Such as?
Boris Grishenko, for one.

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Old 02-20-2013, 09:28 PM   #63
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Default Re: State your unpopular film related opinion - - - Part 12

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He's a Bond villain. They usually have strange quirks, looks, and tendencies as they're usually insane. I thought he was fun, yet interestingly tragic to watch.
Exactly.

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There was no quality to the villain. What was he about? He felt betrayed by M, wanted revenge and... That's it. That's his whole thing. Different than any other villain how?
He was her number 1 agent for over 10 years, and then she left him to die on a mission. Different from any other villain, what do you even mean by that? Name another villain who was a carbon copy of Silva.

It's like saying Hans Gruber was just a glorified thief, so what was so special about him?

Whereas what was Bane's motivation? Why did he protect Talia in the pit? Why did he join the LOS? Why did he want to complete the work of Ra's when Ra's hated him and kicked him out of the LOS? Why did he feel so betrayed that Bruce screwed over the LOS? Why did he buy into their beliefs?

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What was the point of the physical deformity?
To show the physical scars left on him by M's betrayal of course. "Look upon your work, mother".

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What was the point of directly copying - damn near beat for beat - The Dark Knight in several instances?
What you mean Silva deliberately getting himself caught and then having an extravagant escape? To disgrace M. It was all about disgracing, confronting M and then eventually killing her. 'Think upon your sins'.

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All those 'witty' lines? There was maybe one time it actually got a laugh (the bulldog statuette on M's desk). Everything else was forced, slowly and blandly delivered, and poorly edited, successfully sucking any potential energy out of the scene.
That's subjective and your opinion. I don't agree with one iota of that. I loved the witty dialogue. Pure Bond movie wit. The editing was great and nothing, not a single thing, was forced.

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What was that scene between the French girl and Bond on the floating Casino? That scene went on for far too long and tried too hard for too little pay off.
What do you mean what was that scene? It was Bond's connection to Silva by meeting Sevrine his mistress, who was a victim of his cruelty. Not the first Bond girl that was used by Bond to get close to a villain.

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There were several scenes that exemplify the lack of originality and forced nature of the writing. The entire "Prison Escape". It was stolen from TDK, and not done as well.
So you said. I didn't agree with you then either. But you know as much as I love TDK, I can understand how Silva escaped, but the entire Police HQ gets knocked out but Joker, Lau and Joker's men all got out conscious and in one piece somehow.

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Q was stupid enough to plug the bad guys computers (which had previously somehow blown up Mi6) into the mainframe, while Silva performs his Joker escape...
Silva was in custody and they had infiltrated his base. They thought it was safe, until they realized they were hacked again and it was too late.

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and then this brilliant movie uses a few classic action tropes... and *****s them up. For instance: There's a locked door in the subway. This is an action movie. Everyone in the audience knows the solution - Shoot the lock. You've done it a hundred times over the course of 23 movies, and so has every action hero ever. Don't try to create false tension if you don't have the skill or originality to write/direct such a scene.
Ok, that's just nitpicking. If you're bothered by that then you must be up in arms at the cheat of Batman not only magically ejecting from a omb blast 2 seconds before it happens, and somehow not being bathed in a wave of radiation, especially since we KNOW the bomb had a blast radius of 6 miles lol.

And you're complaining about Bond not shooting a door lock straight away lol.

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I'm not even going to get into the end with Alfre- Oh, I mean 'Kincaide' which again came out of nowhere and served NO purpose other than trying to make Bond into Batman. It's too painful to talk about.
What the hell are you talking about? When has Alfred ever been used as an armed ally to help take out bad guys during an attack?

I can't take your complaints seriously. This one doesn't even make sense.

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And those are just the 'little' problems (that add up to big ones).
If all you've got to complain about is the likes of shooting a locked door, not getting the scene of the meeting with Severine, and Kincaide's character, then you're having a laugh here lol.

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I won't get into the overall confused tone of having the young Bond act like this is the end of his career, the undermining and over the top Aston Martin reveal, non-sensical themes etc.
No please get into it. No offense to you but you might actually offer a criticism I can respect and understand. I am also dying to hear your complaint about the way the Aston Martin was revealed. That sounds like a doozie lol.

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As far as the big blockbuster movies of the year go, it was better/better written than Prometheus and The Hobbit. Which is just not saying much at all.
I haven't seen The Hobbit so I can't comment. But it certainly trumps Prometheus and TDKR, too.

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Old 02-20-2013, 09:35 PM   #64
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Boris Grishenko, for one.
Xenia Onatopp and her kinky murderous ways is another. She would practically orgasm when she just shot someone lol.

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Old 02-20-2013, 09:40 PM   #65
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Default Re: State your unpopular film related opinion - - - Part 12

To be fair, it's Famke Janssen.

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Old 02-20-2013, 09:47 PM   #66
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Actually most of the Brosnan Bond villains were cartoonish, with Trevelyan being the major exception. Every villain in Tomorrow Never Dies is over the top. I mean...

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Old 02-20-2013, 09:49 PM   #67
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Actually most of the Brosnan Bond villains were cartoonish
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:52 PM   #68
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Default Re: State your unpopular film related opinion - - - Part 12

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Xenia Onatopp and her kinky murderous ways is another. She would practically orgasm when she just shot someone lol.
And to be fair, that's not a cartoonish quality as that's how many killers admit to having an orgasmic rush killing their victims.

I didn't think Javier Bardem was that over the top or cartoony, I just thought he looked like an ugly pedophile.

Also, regarding this whole 'it copied TDK' thing; TDK stole it from Usual Suspects if we're really gonna play that card.

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Old 02-20-2013, 09:52 PM   #69
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:55 PM   #70
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And to be fair, that's not a cartoonish quality as that's how many killers admit to having an orgasmic rush killing their victims
Funny how she's the only killer I can recall being portrayed like that in a movie if it's so common for killers to behave that way. It's not that they feel a rush for killing, it's the way she made sounds like she just had a master orgasm during sex. It was very cartoonish.

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I didn't think Javier Bardem was that over the top or cartoony
I agree. He was tame compared to how some eccentric psychopaths are portrayed in movies.

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Yeah, I had already hit "Submit Reply" and then I thought, "Wait! I know how I can get my point across even more!"
Carver was a Saturday morning cartoon villain. "There's no news like bad news".

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Old 02-20-2013, 11:28 PM   #71
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Do we really want to say that Skyfall is even in the same league as DAF? Terrible film.

But that aside, yes, characters like Oddjob are pretty silly. But again, I'm speaking of the performance itself. The actor who played Oddjob played the character prett straight; he didn't add any giggling or exaggeration to make his already silly character sillier.

On paper, I think I would wholly agree that Silva has a pretty strong balance of fun and sorrow, but Bardem played the role with this kind of reckless abandon that - as I said - didn't always work. In some instances, he was creepy and hell and quite threatening, in others, it just seemed satirical to me.
His performance wasn't the most cartoonish (Hugo Drax, DAF villains, Zorin), nor was it the most overracted (Eliot Carver, any villain in Die Another Day) of the movies.

I really liked Barden's performance as Silva, who's wild mannerisms was a great counter to Craig's solemn and rather cold demeanor.

And stop going for the strawman argument. We were talking about character traits, not the overall quality of films so no one is saying that Diamonds are Forever is better.

You just can't admit you're wrong. Or *ahem* foolishly wrong.

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Old 02-21-2013, 03:52 AM   #72
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Default Re: State your unpopular film related opinion - - - Part 12

I thought Bardem was actually fairly restrained by Bond villain standards.

Jonathan Pryce and Famke Janssen were far more over-the-top (and neither were Moore villains, either).

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Old 02-21-2013, 08:21 AM   #73
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Default Re: State your unpopular film related opinion - - - Part 12

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Hm, I guess. I dunno. The telekinesis wasn't what really bothered me.

What I couldn't stand was when they abandoned the whole sci-fi crime story to spend pretty much the entire second act stuck on a farm. A pretty boring farm at that. It just didn't do anything for me.
You won't get any argument from me there.

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Old 02-21-2013, 10:07 AM   #74
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His performance wasn't the most cartoonish (Hugo Drax, DAF villains, Zorin), nor was it the most overracted (Eliot Carver, any villain in Die Another Day) of the movies.

I really liked Barden's performance as Silva, who's wild mannerisms was a great counter to Craig's solemn and rather cold demeanor.

And stop going for the strawman argument. We were talking about character traits, not the overall quality of films so no one is saying that Diamonds are Forever is better.

You just can't admit you're wrong. Or *ahem* foolishly wrong.
You're jumping all over the place with your talking points.

In any case, personally I found Silva*to be more over the top than pretty much anyone listed so far. Where I found Carver or Onatop fun, I found myself cringing at Silva.

Possibly it was a matter of verisimilitude; Skyfall Feels like such a serious about legitimate film perhaps the normal Bond villain shtick just seems more over the top than it would in a lighter themed film. I dunno.

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Old 02-21-2013, 11:26 AM   #75
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Default Re: State your unpopular film related opinion - - - Part 12

One thing I liked about Silva is they kept Fleming's style of giving the villain some physical deformity. An outward expression of his inner corruption as he put it in his annotations. Had me waiting for the Bond/villain animal comparisons that usually come after (with Bond being called a shark).

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