The Batman Movie Discussion Thread

[Rodrigo90]

Just to discuss the wants from what we expect the movies to be like and what we want to see in them.

[Anno_Domini]

I would love to see Harvey Bullock having some kind of major role, and not just in the first film, but for the entire series...maybe for his arc we see him as someone who hates Batman and then grows to trust him as Gordon does. One fault in Nolan's trilogy as Gordon is the only mainstay GCPD character in the trilogy and when Batman finally does win the cops over, it's with new characters and not the past bad cops that could've turned good such as Flass.

[Spider-Kurt!]

Bullock and Montoya namely would be great and possible to see. Same with Leslie Thompkins.

I think Dick Grayson will definately be a part of the next set of movies. I really want the first film featuring an established Batman reuniting with Nightwing shortly after the death of Jason Todd. Eventually,I think a Nightwing solo movie of Dick Grayson's orgin (New 52 Court of Owls version tied in) to his falling out with Batman and becoming Nightwing would make a geat prequel.Otherwise giving Robin a credible Batman Begin's style movie could be done.

Another thing that comes to mind is Alfred operating computers in the cave while Batman is out on the field.

[hellblazer103]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

I would love to see Harvey Bullock having some kind of major role, and not just in the first film, but for the entire series...maybe for his arc we see him as someone who hates Batman and then grows to trust him as Gordon does. One fault in Nolan's trilogy as Gordon is the only mainstay GCPD character in the trilogy and when Batman finally does win the cops over, it's with new characters and not the past bad cops that could've turned good such as Flass.

one thing that nolan dropped the ball on was his portrayal of commisioner loeb. not that he was black (well, kinda ) but because he didn't seem anything like the corrupt prick we see in year one.

[the last son]

Please, I mean please just start off with a bang. Right when the movie starts if you aren't sitting in your seats tough crap. In the first 5 minutes we should have batman and nightwing established. Have a brutal fight with batman and croc in the sewers underwater, and batman eventually apprehends him. Just to let the people know this is the type of batman you will see from now on. I liked the Nolan series but god can we please get some exciting action mixed in with good story.

[Rorschach2012]

Dick Grayson
Harvey Bullock

Characters like Killer Croc and Clayface should appear, the new series shouldn't be horror, but have some horror elements like the Arkham Asylum book.

[Dark Sentinel]

Went away after TDKR, been checking out MOS, but now I'm back (let's be honest, I just can't stay away) because, well...he's Batman. Here are my speculative thoughts about where the franchise as a whole can progress beyond Nolan.

I honestly think the best route to take from here on out is just a series of well-done, individual Batman movies. Take it in different directions i.e., psychological thrillers, detective stories, Batman from an "urban myth" perspective, whatever works, but just let each filmmaker make their own take on a facet of Batman's mythos.

A little too abstract?

Look at the James Bond series. I mean, seriously, what better example could I give? Good or bad it works, because (for the vast, VAST majority) Bond films are separate and unique unto themselves despite sharing the same cinematic "universe" or "canon". It allows them to be distinct yet comparative, which is what we get in comics, different artist's takes on the same character. This has crazy potential to make villains like Clayface and Mad Hatter, and even Azrael work for the screen.

Hell I'd love to see a two film adaptation of Jason Todd's death and return as the Red Hood. I think for a standalone Batman trilogy it would be pretty groundbreaking as well as genre-bending, just condense the whole Jason Todd Robin story from its beginning's to his death (part one) and then his return and confrontation with Bruce (part two). They could use villains like Black Mask and Joker and Ra's al Ghul, and cover a great hero-to-villain arc (way better than the SW Prequels, that's for sure).

Anyway, [/ramble]

Goodnight, folks.

[godisawesome]

Style and Portrayal of Gotham and Batman: I'm a post-Crisis Batman fan, so I'm of the opinion we get to see more of Batman as the veteran campaigner and mentor. In this world, Batman's M.O. is justified by the higher caliber and power threshhold of his enemies, who actually do include some straight up heavy hitters. As such, he is usually equipped in "light" gear for tackling more usual threats but a heavy duty Batmobile that hold his heavier arsenal. Batman has a feared reputation in the criminal underworld, which is split between the "freaks" and the "sneaks" (regular criminals, but with a slight edge of ambition and daring since they operate in Gotham). Despite this, the number one nightmare in Gotham is the Joker, who is whisperingly referred to as "the clown" in the same way Batman is "the Bat." Gotham itself is half-gothic landscape and hyper modern fiefdom of technology, with large parts of the metropolitan area insulated and isolated in their culture (Old Gotham vs the East End vs Crime Alley vs. the Narrows vs. the Glades). Each film has a theme in a manner similar to the Batman films, but the overall tone is much more sci-fi.

And I figure you approach the series in phases, more coordinated than the different Bond eras. So you introduce the fist three Robins in costume in one series of four films with an experienced Batman, see if they can spin off any of their own movies. Than, at the same time as the rest of the DC movies, you introduce new actors for a sequel series so you can reinvigorate the franchise for a few films.

[uniqueweasel]

I would Like to see if they could somehow have a few internal monologues included, I know a lot of people don't seem to be in favour of it but i'd love to see if they could make it work in a Batman film.

[quixote_coyote]

id like to see a smaller personal batman film. for ex: the judge dredd reboot takes place primarily in one megacity block. i think a btaman film taking place primarily in arkham asylum would be sweet. the villains could take over and batman would have to fight thru various levels of different threats.
also i truly believe you could seriousley portray robin on film. have him become robin at around 15/17 yrs old . batman should use him strictly for recon work until all hell breaks loose and robin proves himself to be a competent fighter and tactician.

[Excelsior.]

Should Batman's cape be CGI? Snyder proved with 300 and MOS you can do far more visually with a cape if it's cgi. And since the cape would likely be black, or a very dark blue (if they choose to revere the comics to that extent) the CG shouldn't be too conspicuous.

[godisawesome]

Okay, I had a thread made on the Batman World board and it semi-disappeared, so I'm posting this stuff again here.

Style and Portrayal of Gotham and Batman: I'm a post-Crisis Batman fan, so I'm of the opinion we get to see more of Batman as the veteran campaigner and mentor. In this world, Batman's M.O. is justified by the higher caliber and power threshhold of his enemies, who actually do include some straight up heavy hitters. As such, he is usually equipped in "light" gear for tackling more usual threats but a heavy duty Batmobile that hold his heavier arsenal. Batman has a feared reputation in the criminal underworld, which is split between the "freaks" and the "sneaks" (regular criminals, but with a slight edge of ambition and daring since they operate in Gotham). Despite this, the number one nightmare in Gotham is the Joker, who is whisperingly referred to as "the clown" in the same way Batman is "the Bat." Gotham itself is half-gothic landscape and hyper modern fiefdom of technology, with large parts of the metropolitan area insulated and isolated in their culture (Old Gotham vs the East End vs Crime Alley vs. the Narrows vs. the Glades). Each film has a theme in a manner similar to the Batman films, but the overall tone is much more sci-fi.

And to kind of give an idea of what type of scale I want to see, here's a long-@$$ outline for anyone who wants to waste their time.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Act 1
We begin with a chase scene. Batman is chasing down a highly acrobatic and highly-panicked cat burglar. He's introduced as a terrifying shadow, and we are given a fugitive's eye view of him as he repeatedly turns up in a flanking position on the thief. Since at this point he's just an inhuman force of nature, our attention and sympathy should be with the thief, who manages to very cleverly allude him right up until being cornered in an alley. Our thief, still frightened out of her mind, backs into a corner only for Batman to wearily and tiredly approach her to put her in Batcuffs. Now that he's up close, she actually acts surprised and quickly goes from looking like a scaredy-cat to an incredulous and gabby, and ever so slightly flirty, femme fatale. Batman, now very clearly human, underestimates her and winds up getting sucker-punched by her after she picks her way out of his handcuffs, staggering him just enough that she can escape minus her goods. He takes off after her, passing a sign for Haley's Cirque...

Midway through his pursuit, we hear a police channel voice come on over Batman's intercom. He continues his pursuit, obviously determined to catch her, until he hears "Shots fired! Officer down!" at which point he angrily leaves the chase to head for the crime in progress. He arrives at a hostage situation, where a small group of environmental extremists, led by a red headed woman, are attempting to force a fortune 500 CEO to confess to ignoring EPA regulations so that they can pass sentence on him for his "crimes against nature." Batman quickly and brutally takes out the majority of the group, only to be temporarily halted when the red head takes a TV crew hostage after distracting him with an explosive. Silhouetted against the flames, Bats stares impassively while the red head shouts that she's just following his example and taking the law into her own hands, but uses the timely distraction of a cop to hit her with a bata-rang.

An obviously irritated and tired Bats returns to the Batcave, slowly removing his armor to show just how badly beaten up he is and get us a chance to know him as a mortal human. Alfred arrives and activates the Batcomputer's TV monitors, which show both multiple crimes and tragedies that Bruce Wayne failed to stop and an interview by Vicky Vale with Professor Hugo Strange (our big bad). Here Strange and Vale discuss his theory that Batman is acting as a kind of monster maker, drawing various criminals and monsters to Gotham, citing the rise in costumed crimes by mentally unstable individuals, noting that the red head, Pamela Isely, prefers to go by her "real name" Poison Ivy and shows strong anti-social tendencies that he believes were exacerbated by Batman's fame. Alfred and Bruce discuss this idea as well, with neither agreeing with it but both admitting there are some relevant points being made.

Meanwhile, we enter Gotham Penitentiary, where “Poison Ivy” is seducing a guard so she can slam his head against the bars, take his keys, and try and make an escape, dismissing him as “stupid man.” Her escape is interrupted when she runs into Strange’s TIGER guards, who subdue her and bring her before Strange in the prison’s garden. Strange discusses a rare flower with her, highlighting its uniquely toxic properties and carnivorous capabilities. She corrects him on some of the facts he spouts, with him acknowledging her past career as a botanical scientist who had the unique ability to handle poisonous plants due to an unusual immunity to most toxins and poisons. Strange then reveals that he has been handling the plant with extreme care since it’s actually Ivy’s and he knows she’s been experimenting on it. She acknowledges she’s been trying to use the plant’s spores to make a very specific but powerful toxin that would only be activated upon the plant’s flowering. Strange briefly alludes to the power he believes the Batman has over individuals like Ivy and how he believes that his attempts to either replace him or destroy him will require certain weapons at his hand. He asks her how she’s been changing the plant’s chemistry and she reluctantly reveals how she’s been subjecting it to incrementally harder environments. Strange then has her forcibly injected with a chemical cocktail to enter her in a near death-state and follows it up with an injection of a combination of her plant and one of his formulas; he’s going to use her as an incubator for the toxin thanks to her immune system.

Two weeks later, Bruce, who is truly acting like an obsessive insomniac at this point, is pestered by Alfred that he has slept through the last whole week and how he's had little outside contact with anyone who wasn't a criminal and needs to get out more. Alfred convinces a prickly Bruce to go out to the Mayor's gala at Ice Berg Lounge and enjoy the Flying Grayson's performance as part of the touring acrobatic show Haley's Cirque. Bruce only agrees to go because the mayor will be discussing important topics with Prof. Strange and because it will give him more time to scope out the Lounge. Alfred insists he take a date, with Bruce sarcastically pointing to Vicky Vale in an attempt to avoid it.

Cut to Ice Berg Lounge, where Bruce is escorting Vicky Vale, who comments how persuasive his butler was. The gala features a few sequences where Bruce actually finds Vicky interesting and engaging and where he uses his reputation as a drunken playboy to insult the slimy owner of the Lounge, calling him Ozzy. The fuming Cobblepot is distracted by his own arm-candy, a Miss Selina Kyle, and any potential fracas is broken up after Vale leads Bruce away, warning him not to antagonize "the Penguin." At the mayor's table, Bruce continues to act drunk but manages to ask some very interrogative questions to Strange, who reveals he's planning a truly massive restructuring of the Gotham incarceration system, moving inmates from Arkham Asylum and Gotham Federal Penitentiary to a central location inside Gotham where he will use "revolutionary" new treatment techniques. Strange again expounds on his theory that Batman has a god like power to create these powerful criminals by his mere presence, expositing wonder at how the Bat could bring out his opposite number in the Clown, disconcerting Bruce for mysterious reasons.

As the night winds down, everyone enters the theatre section, where they all sit at the VIP section, with Bruce maneuvering to sit between Vale and Kyle to both play up his playboy image and investigate Selina's purse-Cobblepott has been having trouble finding things all night, and Bruce surreptitiously finds that Selina's been picking his pockets. While Haley's Cirque begins, Bruce continues to annoy Vale by playing drunk and has some fun flustering her with his charm and stealing back anything that Kyle picks from him. He's obviously having fun, and his attention is taken away only briefly to watch a truly impressive performance by young Richard Grayson, and when he goes back to playing "who's the better thief" with Kyle, he is initially distracted from the horrible deaths of the elder Graysons, but a quick glance by him shows that the cords of their trapeze have been cut. While the rest of the crowd leaves, he stays and stares down at the now orphaned Dick

Act2
In the Limousine after dropping Vale off at the news station, Bruce voices his desire to return to the scene as Batman and solve the crime to help Dick, but is discouraged by Alfred, who suggests he simply ask Gordon for information on the crime and try and see to it the boy has a secure future. A brief scene shows Batman ninjaing into Gordon's office to demand the report and getting out. Bruce also reviews a taped recording of the performance, getting frustrated because he notices clues that would suggest the lines have been tampered with, though Alfred notices they are very subtle and could easily be misconstrued into something else and they only really show the truth in hindsight.

Bruce shows some grave concern after looking through the evidence, as both he and Gordon have picked out two very dangerous suspects for the sabotage: the Penguin, for reasons unknown but having full access to the stage and control over the hired theater personnel, and Tony Zucco, mob boss who was snubbed by the Cirque when he requested a private performance for his daughter's birthday and with a history of previous sabotage. Since neither is known for being particularly sloppy, young Grayson's very calm and observant recounting of the night's event is the biggest clues that the sabotage is deliberate, so Bruce decides to have Alfred enquire child services for the boy’s state, since there’s a real chance that a corrupt cop may try and make fast money by leaking how important the kid is.

Grayson has escaped the children’s home, and is crying on top of the police station, where he overhears Detective Bullock and Montoya discussing Zucco and Penguin. We see him racing across Gotham’s rooftops towards Zucco’s address (he used his iPhone) when he is overtaken by Batman right outside Zucco’s hideout. The kid isn’t scared of Bats, but ends up subdued anyway. Batman places a tracker and then takes the kid back to child services, only to find small time thugs in the process of attacking the place. Batman, obviously pissed, sticks Dick in the Batmobile and tells it to go to “Location #3,” and proceeds to decimate the hired thugs with even more fire than before. He’s so focused on beating one particular thug, that he doesn’t realize that the cops have arrived to arrest him until they ignore his opponents and he hears they have direct orders from the mayor to take him down.

Meanwhile, Location #3 turns out to be the medical clinic of Dr. Leslie Thompkins. She actually comes out to collect Dick himself and the Batmobile takes off for Batman himself. She has him sit down in her waiting room, where he soon finds himself scoping out several newspaper clippings from her past on the wall, and also finds the clientele of the place to be varied, especially when Selina Kyle enters supporting her young friend Holly. While sitting in the waiting room, Kyle recognizes Dick and asks him how he knows Dr. Thompkins. Thinking quickly, Dick says his parents knew her. Kyle seems pleased by this, saying Thompkins must have met them while working for Doctors Without Borders, and even mentions how she first met her after she set up shop in Gotham. Their discussion ends up including how the clinic’s biggest patron is Bruce Wayne, with Kyle even revealing that Thompkins knew his parents and comforted him the night they died, pointing out an article where Bruce actually explains that himself alongside a small picture of him the night of the murder.

Interspersed with this scene we witness Batman escaping a siege by Gotham’s SWAT teams while waiting for his car, with him hearing an argument in the chain of command between the commanding Bullock and a group of TIGER guards attached to the group, and finding the TIGER guards to be a bit tougher than normal, pulling out some of his heavier gadgets to deal with them. After one particularly tough tussle, he takes a blood sample to see why the guard is so powerful. His Batmobile shows up, and an angry, tired, and edgy Dark Knight enters it, picks up Dick, and takes him to the Batcave. He tells Dick to stay there and contacts Gordon to let him know that he’s securing the only real witness to the Graysons’ deaths.

Batman analyzes the tissue sample, and when pestered by Dick, reveals it’s a specially designed neurological drug that increases the body’s base strength and resistance to Bane at the cost of a degraded neural system. He also reviews Dick’s testimony from that night, even asking him to repeat everything he remembers in detail. Dick does so, highlighting a suspicious looking stage hand and earning Bruce’s appreciation for his intelligence and bravery. Batman tells him to stay put, as there is just enough time before daylight for him to make one final interview.

We next have a scene where Batman infiltrates Gotham FP and interrogates one of the crooks he was assaulting, an event we see is witnessed by Strange through a hidden camera. Meanwhile, Dick is shown using his skills to make it to the hidden passageway to Wayne Manor, discovering who Batman is and meeting Alfred. The crook being interrogated dies suddenly from what seems to be a stroke. Batman makes his way home leading to three events: Dick and he talk and he decides to train the 14 year old how to fight crime, Strange uses the security breach to have the city council approve his plans for a central prison center called Blackgate, and Strange also visits the semi-lucid Poison Ivy to extract more of her deadly pollen, revealing her plant and her are intermingled and she is in great pain.

The next scene is one part training montage for Robin, one part detective montage as Bruce continues to track down leads and suspects continue to die, a reveal that Zucco is in hiding, and a continually pained Poison Ivy, who is further experimented on by Strange’s assistant, a the construction of Blackgate, which resembles a prison less and more of a fortress.

Part 3 follows.

[godisawesome]

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Act 3
6 months later, 15 year old Dick Grayson is now in constant radio contact with Batman to help him monitor multiple police bands and their wire tapings, being anxious to take to the field against Bruce’s protests. They have developed an anti-toxin for the pollen toxin, but are finding the neurological steroid has been amped up. More TIGER guards-and even some common thugs- are increasing in strength and brutality at the cost of their overall intelligence.

Meanwhile, Blackgate receives it’s transfer of prisoners from Arkham Asylum, with one prisoner not even being allowed on a Hannibal-like gurney; instead they simply transport a full size coffin into his new room. The mayor, in attendance with Strange, wonders why Strange even wanted “the Clown.” Strange exposits how his theory of Batman’s creator aspect is no where better personified than this inmate. He invites the Mayor, Gordon, and Bullock to observe his first interview with the Joker. Gordon alone insists on staying because he doesn’t trust Strange or the Joker.

Dick Grayson, now formally allowed as Bruce’s ward, is showing considerably better humor since his training, as is Bruce himself. It’s established that they have a sibling-like repartee, including Robin teasing Batman about always letting the new “Catwoman” get away, though Batman insists he has his reasons, with Alfred snarkily saying one of them is probably tight leather and a whip. Dick’s phone goes off and he pulls it up to see that the Batcomputer has finally located a haggard looking Zucco, and that he is under attack from TIGER guards. Bruce immediately suits up, but forbids Dick from coming along, even locking down his costume.

At Blackgate, Joker gets his one big scene in a creepy interview with Strange. Despite being apparently doped to his gills, Joker manages to play Strange like a fiddle, especially by analyzing how he wants to replace the Batman and even suggests that Strange probably imagines running around in his own suit, and parenthetically threatens Gordon’s family even though he’s behind a one way mirror. Strange gets him to relate the events of his creation, though the only consistent bit in each version that he tells is how he winds up falling into acid at Ace Chemicals apparently at the instigation of Batman. Strange cites him as a true example of Batman’s ability to create monsters. Joker asserts that he was not created; he simply is. He had one bad day and became a supervillain. He laughingly states that you never really see it coming.

We visit Poison Ivy’s hospital bed, where she allows one of the guards to kiss her so she can headbutt him. He angrily grabs her for another kiss, only for her to bite him, and he angrily injects her with an overdose of Strange’s neurological toxin. As he walks away he notices a slight feeling of wooziness…

Batman arrives to find Zucco’s hideout already destroyed. He manages to fight his way through Zucco’s few remaining henchmen before the TIGER guards manage to fight their way into the room. When Batman manages to take them out while also protecting Zucco, we see Strange reluctantly order a wide dispersion of the pollen to kill him, telling the Mayor that the vigilante has obviously shown his true colors by protecting Zucco. The Mayor objects, so Strange quietly orders one of his men to take him prisoner.

Batman almost dies in the pollen attack, but Robin arrives to inject him with the anti-toxin, and after some hesitation does the same to Zucco. Zucco, in much worse shape than Batman, passes out, but not before semi-lucidly blaming the Penguin for the Graysons’ deaths.

Back in Poison Ivy’s room, the guard is showing signs of being much worse, and he is so far gone that he doesn’t hear the other guards yelling about how out of control the plants in Ivy’s room have gotten-they can’t even reach her anymore. Suddenly, the plant starts attacking them, crushing them all in a matter of seconds. The sick guard, now almost all gone, just barely manages to raise his gone when a giant flower opens in front of him, revealing the fully transformed Poison Ivy, whose body has in conjunction with the plant retrofitted the neurovirus to bond her to her plants and mutate them into powerful and mobile monstrosities. She teasingly tells him he was poisoned by her “kiss” and finishes him off with quite a painful looking repeat. She calls him “stupid meat” and leaves to find Strange.

Gordon and the cops show up to help Batman out of the wreckage, revealing how Strange has kidnapped the Mayor and being surprised at Robin. Batman tells Robin to make sure Zucco goes to jail safely, then takes off for Penguin. He arrives to question Penguin, who somewhat nonchalantly is taking cover in his private bunker and reveals that Strange had Zucco sabotage the lines to punish Penguin (through bad publicity and setting his base crawling with cops) for failing to provide him with man power for Blackgate.

Batman’s comm. System begins buzzing with the reveal that Gordon’s men are taking heavy casualties and even being captured by TIGER guards at Blackgate, then Robin reports that a giant plant monster is attacking city hall with a weird woman shouting about how she’s going to see to it the whole city burns for destroying plants.

Robin engages Poison Ivy while Batman tries to save the cops, evacuate the prison, and get inside Strange’s stronghold. It quickly becomes clear they are both outmatched by their opponents despite their gadgets. Robin tells Batman he has an idea and manages to enrage Ivy by killing some of her plants with his anti-toxin, then gets in the Batmobile and leads an angry Ivy on a chase that leads them to Blackgate , where she realizes Strange is holed up in and immediately begins attacking it, allowing Batman to get inside and leading to a massive battle. Strange and Batman briefly engage with Strange getting his butt kicked but managing to have his monstrous TIGER guards overpower Batman, and takes off Batman’s mask.

Distracted by all the implications of who and what Batman being Bruce Wayne means for his enemy, an ecstatically fascinated Strange ends up being pulled away by Poison Ivy’s plants, and she feeds him to one of her plants, though we can still see him struggling through the plant’s sides. When she turns her attention back to Batman, she seductively approaches him with a Cheshire grin, clearly setting him up to be killed by her kiss while he quietly taps something on his gauntlet computer to Robin, who opens up a valve while closing another, so that when she “cutely” asks him what he’s doing he tells her to smell the air. She screams when she realizes its gas, and Batman lights a match, setting the whole place ablaze. While she tries to finish him off with her burning plants, Robin shows up , and they manage to double team her enough for Batman to reach her and knock her out. Batman and Robin emerge from the inferno, carrying Ivy out wrapped in Batman’s cape to protect her from the flames.

Our last scene shows Batman and Robin talking to Gordon atop the police station about how Strange’s body wasn’t found-and neither was the Joker, though his cell was melted around him, so there might not actually be a body to find. They prepare for a night out, with Robin catching a glimpse of, and being seen by, Barbara Gordon. When Gordon tells Robin to dream on and Batman chastises him for being distracted on the job, Robin says his girlfriend is calling when a report comes over their comms that Catwoman has been spotted making off with Cobblepott’s money.

We end on a short scene showing them chasing her down while she says “This should be fun!"

[Artistsean]

I was thinking, maybe this should be saved for the 3rd film in the reboot of the Batman franchise, but what about Batman Inc? People already know who Batman is and how he became Batman. What if the next films focus on Batman's war on Crime and show him realize that he needs to take it global?