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View Poll Results: Who made the better Catwoman?
Michelle Pfeiffer 65 37.57%
Anne Hathaway 108 62.43%
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:07 AM   #351
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

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If that's the case, maybe he should make his movies entertaining and not boring.
Or maybe not all movies need action constantly? Ever seen The Shining? 2001? A Clockwork Orange? Fight Club? Phenomenal movies and I'd say The Prestige and Memento are up there with some of them. Suspense, mystery and intrigue make these movies tick rather than action and that makes them far more interesting than something like The Avengers or anything Michael Bay does that is filled to the brim with action scenes.

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Old 03-19-2013, 01:47 AM   #352
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Or maybe not all movies need action constantly? Ever seen The Shining? 2001? A Clockwork Orange? Fight Club? Phenomenal movies and I'd say The Prestige and Memento are up there with some of them. Suspense, mystery and intrigue make these movies tick rather than action and that makes them far more interesting than something like The Avengers or anything Michael Bay does that is filled to the brim with action scenes.
You got me all wrong, dude.

I hate Michael Bay and stuff like The Avengers. I'm not much of an action fan, either.

I like movies like The Shining, 2001 and A Clockwork Orange (not Fight Club, though). I find those movies very entertaining. A film is supposed to entertain, whether through thrills, action, suspense or drama.

And those films achieved that, because they are very well made. They are smart without being pretentious.

Nolan's films try and be intellectual, but just come off as stupid and boring.

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Old 03-19-2013, 01:50 AM   #353
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

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Nolan's films try and be intellectual, but just come off as stupid and boring.

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Old 03-19-2013, 02:00 AM   #354
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

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You got me all wrong, dude.

I hate Michael Bay and stuff like The Avengers. I'm not much of an action fan, either.

I like movies like The Shining, 2001 and A Clockwork Orange (not Fight Club, though). I find those movies very entertaining. A film is supposed to entertain, whether through thrills, action, suspense or drama.

And those films achieved that, because they are very well made. They are smart without being pretentious.

Nolan's films try and be intellectual, but just come off as stupid and boring.
I just went and looked at another thread, I mixed up your username with Kal-El, the guy who wanted Bay to direct the Batman reboot. So, my apologies there.

Go watch Fight Club. Right now. It's fantastic.

As for the last sentence, I recommend rewatching Memento and The Prestige while paying attention to the plot structure and clues dropped throughout (particularly in The Prestige). I can understand not enjoying Inception and even The Dark Knight Trilogy but The Prestige and Memento are phenomenal films across the board.

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Old 03-19-2013, 02:00 AM   #355
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ThePhantasm, please always post with Person of Interest GIFs.

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Old 03-19-2013, 02:55 AM   #356
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Selina is my favourite character in the trilogy. It’s also my opinion Anne is a better actress than Michelle. I like both of course.

I like the 'goggle ears' thing which is unique to TDKR, but there’s more to it than that. I feel Nolan and Anne embraced and captured the thief/social climber side of the character. The person.

Some can call it neutered, but what happens in the movie is there in the comic material. I love the in-costume moments but I well and truly felt 'Selina Kyle' during the maid, masquerade, airport and apple scenes, for example.

Stalling the guard by pretending to look through her bag, holding up her hat and punching the guy down. When she was in trouble she successfully fooled the opposition or kept them at arm’s length. Literally so in the prison. Stealing Lamborghinis was in no way shape or form bland to me. It was fun, and the movie improved when she appeared.

Whether or not she was better or worse than Michelle is subjective. For example certain people hold Newmar up above them all. What I do think though, is that Anne did one hell of a job and won over people who were against the casting and only thought 'Princess Diaries'.

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Old 03-19-2013, 03:18 AM   #357
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HAHA There were too many things going on to properly digest in one sitting. I've only seen the film once all the way through. There were so many plot threads and characters, but none of them were interesting enough to keep me awake.
Out of curiosity, are you still in high school or younger? Because, there is nothing in that film that is not stated, restated and then underlined for emphasis. It is over 2.5 hours, but it is not difficult to follow. I can understand people complaining about Memento or The Prestige, but nothing else in Nolan's oeuvre is challenging unless you simply are not paying attention.

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Old 03-19-2013, 03:18 AM   #358
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If that's the case, maybe he should make his movies entertaining and not boring.
Oh, well there it is. They are not boring to most. Watch them in a few years and you may enjoy them more.

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Old 03-19-2013, 03:48 AM   #359
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I just went and looked at another thread, I mixed up your username with Kal-El, the guy who wanted Bay to direct the Batman reboot. So, my apologies there.

Go watch Fight Club. Right now. It's fantastic.

As for the last sentence, I recommend rewatching Memento and The Prestige while paying attention to the plot structure and clues dropped throughout (particularly in The Prestige). I can understand not enjoying Inception and even The Dark Knight Trilogy but The Prestige and Memento are phenomenal films across the board.
Memento is his best. The Prestige is ridiculous, though. Those clones at the end, Nolan just totally lost the plot there. A shame, because the magician battle was interesting up until he had to introduce some dumb, lame sci-fi twist into it.

And I've seen Fight Club and I think it's overrated. I've seen the same theme done much better.

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Selina is my favourite character in the trilogy. Itís also my opinion Anne is a better actress than Michelle. I like both of course.
Michelle doesn't even need to act. She's just a natural.

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Whether or not she was better or worse than Michelle is subjective. For example certain people hold Newmar up above them all. What I do think though, is that Anne did one hell of a job and won over people who were against the casting and only thought 'Princess Diaries'.
Newmar is the best Catwoman, hands down.

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Out of curiosity, are you still in high school or younger? Because, there is nothing in that film that is not stated, restated and then underlined for emphasis. It is over 2.5 hours, but it is not difficult to follow. I can understand people complaining about Memento or The Prestige, but nothing else in Nolan's oeuvre is challenging unless you simply are not paying attention.
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Oh, well there it is. They are not boring to most. Watch them in a few years and you may enjoy them more.
LOL Another pretentious Nolan fanboy. Last time I was in high school was the 90s.. so.

They aren't difficult to follow, it's just that they do not sustain interest. Nolan's films lack subtlety. They are hamfisted in their themes. The plot structure does not follow a logical pattern. Each scene should seamlessly flow to the next. The characters and dialogue are laughably bad.

You want to see it done right, see Michael Mann's Heat. That ran for 3 hours and the whole time it has your attention. That's because they are real characters and not just cardboard cutouts from a comic book, but that's how you do it.

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Old 03-19-2013, 08:05 AM   #360
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

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It’s also my opinion Anne is a better actress than Michelle.




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Whether or not she was better or worse than Michelle is subjective. For example certain people hold Newmar up above them all. What I do think though, is that Anne did one hell of a job and won over people who were against the casting and only thought 'Princess Diaries'.
This aspect is often blown way out of proportion. Apart from typical fanboys... nobody was all that against Anne in the role. This was not a Heath-Joker scenario.

Anne was sufficent for the part. Many, many people felt as such... and she did a very good job.

It's just a shame Anne was given such a dull version of the character to play... as she could have killed it with a better interpretation.

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Old 03-19-2013, 08:32 AM   #361
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Hey, truth tellers will not be silenced!

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This aspect is often blown way out of proportion. Apart from typical fanboys... nobody was all that against Anne in the role. This was not a Heath-Joker scenario.
I’m not trying to blow it out of proportion. I’m just stating people – not sure of the numbers of course, did think of her in this regard when she was announced. And when she turned up on screen as the maid and said "oops" - deviating from that stye of character, their eyes were opened and opinions were changed. I think certain people got bogged down in the whole suit debate and it probably crossed over when it shouldn’t have. I remember quite a bit of general negativity around where the character was heading. It pops up time again, but not to the extent that it was. I think it's largely due to Anne's performance. People enjoyed it and the quality overrode any criticisms they had about the suit, etc.

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It's just a shame Anne was given such a dull version of the character to play... as she could have killed it with a better interpretation.
Dull is subjective and I’ll have to disagree there – in my opinion she already ‘killed it’.

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Old 03-19-2013, 11:22 AM   #362
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Oh man, I don't think it's blowing it out or proportion at all to say a lot folks were skeptical of Anne in the role. I remember after she hosted the Oscars with Franco and bombed, her haters were coming out full force. Most of the the non-fans I talked to about her playing Catwoman were like, "Anne Hathaway...really?".

It may not have been a Heath-Joker scenario, but it was pretty close. Also, Heath pretty much had everyone on board by December '07 with the prologue and trailer. Anne skeptics didn't really start getting to see her perform in costume until very close to the movie's release. I think the general concern from a lot of fans was that the inclusion of Catwoman would make things campier, especially when people got a look at the Julie Numar look. The way Anne was able to balance the theatrical side of the role while playing it totally straight won a lot of people over. She was a fun character who helped brighten up a very bleak movie, but still very dangerous and not to be messed with.

The one difference I'll note is that while she had her fair share of detractors, she also had a few supporters who wanted her in the role before she was even cast. Whereas with Heath, he made NOBODY's wish-list.

As far as the interpretation goes, I thought it was a great interpretation and a very well-written character. She could have used a little more screen time, but I also think having less of her also made it that much sweeter when she was on screen.

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Old 03-19-2013, 11:32 AM   #363
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

Ledger's performance did much more to change minds, however. Speaking personally, Hathaway converted me from indifference to indifference.

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Old 03-19-2013, 12:06 PM   #364
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

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If that's the case, maybe he should make his movies entertaining and not boring.

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Old 03-19-2013, 02:13 PM   #365
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Memento is his best. The Prestige is ridiculous, though. Those clones at the end, Nolan just totally lost the plot there. A shame, because the magician battle was interesting up until he had to introduce some dumb, lame sci-fi twist into it.

And I've seen Fight Club and I think it's overrated. I've seen the same theme done much better.



Michelle doesn't even need to act. She's just a natural.



Newmar is the best Catwoman, hands down.





LOL Another pretentious Nolan fanboy. Last time I was in high school was the 90s.. so.

They aren't difficult to follow, it's just that they do not sustain interest. Nolan's films lack subtlety. They are hamfisted in their themes. The plot structure does not follow a logical pattern. Each scene should seamlessly flow to the next. The characters and dialogue are laughably bad.

You want to see it done right, see Michael Mann's Heat. That ran for 3 hours and the whole time it has your attention. That's because they are real characters and not just cardboard cutouts from a comic book, but that's how you do it.
Sorry, I just assumed by your immature ramblings that you were a kid. Hardly a Nolan fanboy and I am aware of Heat's influences (a good film, but far from Mann's best), I just was trying to grapple with you resorting to ad hominem attacks on the film and Nolan himself. It is similar to those who would write off David Lean or Hitchcock to me by condescendingly dumbing down their films to boring or pretentious middlebrow diversions in the latter's case.

And yes, throwing around Mann while you trash a populist filmmaker like Nolan is kind of pretentious, your word of choice in this thread.

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Old 03-19-2013, 02:17 PM   #366
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

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That picture.

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This aspect is often blown way out of proportion. Apart from typical fanboys... nobody was all that against Anne in the role. This was not a Heath-Joker scenario.

Anne was sufficent for the part. Many, many people felt as such... and she did a very good job.

It's just a shame Anne was given such a dull version of the character to play... as she could have killed it with a better interpretation.
I do not agree with that. Anyone I talked to dismissed the idea. And every article about the film was filled with skeptics or straight up haters of Hathaway being cast in the role (you still see that kind of disdain for her when she won an Oscar and the Twittersphere erupted in anger).

Yet, when the movie came out, I saw nothing but universal praise from critics, press screeners, even fanboys. Even the president called her the best part of the movie.

So, while it was not a Ledger style of reinvention, there was a drastic change in the media narrative and coverage after the film was released.

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Old 03-19-2013, 02:21 PM   #367
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Even President Obama gave a shout out to Anne as being "the best part" of the movie. I think the overall praise was certainly more than "mildly impressed", even if it wasn't at Ledger levels (what is?).

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Old 03-19-2013, 05:02 PM   #368
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Obama is a politician. The first point is that he probably doesn't have any genuine opinions; the second is that he will say whatever the wind blows at the time.

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Old 03-19-2013, 05:10 PM   #369
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Not to get political here, but I wasn't even beginning to imply that because the President said it, it's valid. I just meant that he said it, it was reported, and it was in agreement with the overall slant of the way Hathaway's performance was received in mainstream culture. If you're saying he said it just because the wind was blowing that way, then that is precisely what I mean. It was reflective of a lot of people's opinions.

The real reason he probably said it was because she was at a big Hollywood fundraiser for him.

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Old 03-19-2013, 05:16 PM   #370
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Well, yes. Hype is a transitory and superficial thing, though. The mark of Ledger's performance was that it transcended hype. The hype was almost and annoying distraction, detracting from how good it was on its own merits. Most comparable performances have nothing underneath that initial veneer of spurious endorsement.

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Old 03-19-2013, 05:33 PM   #371
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I hate how Selina goes missing in the second act. I really thought she'd have some extremely meaty material during Bane's reign over Gotham.

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Old 03-19-2013, 06:57 PM   #372
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It's debatable to say she could have some "meaty" material during Bane's siege in the second act. She seemingly shunned Jen away while Selina was having a change of heart about the "storm". And I never wanted her to talk about, meet with, et cetera, Bane because it added more to her coming in to save Batman at the end(plus, Selina did mentioned that by bringing Batman to the sewers to meet Bane would keep them from coming after her). The one thing I wish, however, was that Selina ran into League members when she was saving Bruce and Fox who would know better, but instead, she was lucky enough to only run into Blackgate inmates.

I sometimes wish we saw of more of Selina, but wanting that comes after wanting more depth from the city first and foremost. I would ask that way before wanting to see just more of Selina.

After more "soul" of Gotham City, then I'd want more Selina, then more Talia, then more Foley.

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Old 03-19-2013, 08:07 PM   #373
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

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Memento is his best. The Prestige is ridiculous, though. Those clones at the end, Nolan just totally lost the plot there. A shame, because the magician battle was interesting up until he had to introduce some dumb, lame sci-fi twist into it.
You do realize that The Prestige is an adaptation of a book, right? Nolan didn't lose the plot. If you think that anyone lost the plot, it was the author.

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Old 03-19-2013, 09:25 PM   #374
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It's debatable to say she could have some "meaty" material during Bane's siege in the second act. She seemingly shunned Jen away while Selina was having a change of heart about the "storm". And I never wanted her to talk about, meet with, et cetera, Bane because it added more to her coming in to save Batman at the end(plus, Selina did mentioned that by bringing Batman to the sewers to meet Bane would keep them from coming after her). The one thing I wish, however, was that Selina ran into League members when she was saving Bruce and Fox who would know better, but instead, she was lucky enough to only run into Blackgate inmates.

I sometimes wish we saw of more of Selina, but wanting that comes after wanting more depth from the city first and foremost. I would ask that way before wanting to see just more of Selina.

After more "soul" of Gotham City, then I'd want more Selina, then more Talia, then more Foley.
Maybe meaty wasn't the right word, but for such a seemingly important character; Selina does get pushed to the side fairly easily during the siege. Which is a shame because as great as Hathaway is in TDKR, I feel Nolan and co. could have fleshed her motives and moral stances out just a little further.

At the end of the day Nolan decided to tell an origin story within ending Bruce's arc, which cost more interesting supporting characters like Selina and Gordon, and then robbed potentially interesting characters like Talia and to some degree Bane; screen time and character development within the second act.

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Old 03-20-2013, 04:30 PM   #375
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I prefer Anne, i prefer each and every interpretation of this trilogy over anything before it..

Batman, The Joker, Gordon, Selina, ALFRED, were all interpreted in ways that are perfect for a fan like me considering this is how i practically envision them when i think of batman..

I havent read too many of the comics but ive seen some, and alot of DC Animated Universe, and the secondary characters like gordon and alfred were painted as much more important in these films than in anything ive seen before, everything was perfect in the films in my opinion...

Anne Hatheway is such a hottie too, i download Les Miserables just to watch her perform just to remember that she plays dam Fantine in it and (spoiler alert) dies quickly lol..

Anne did a great job, you can see the robin hood kind of thing in her, where she is naturally a good person with good intentions if you want to put it like that but she does some "bad" things..i thought that the performance was what it should be, and i have a celebrity crush on anne now for it...Shes so hot..Hotter than michelle for me.

And the role she was given and executed was more realistic and true to what selina kyle is.

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