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View Poll Results: Who made the better Catwoman?
Michelle Pfeiffer 65 37.57%
Anne Hathaway 108 62.43%
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:22 AM   #501
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

'Riddled overstated the case, but the point can be made that TDKR treats Selina as a single entity, rather than acknowledging Catwoman as her emanation at all. The counter-argument is that Catwoman can be objectively constructed by the viewer by reflecting on evidencial similarities. The problem with this is that, viewed strictly, it relies on knowledge of a concept that exists outside the film, even if this is knowledge that almost everyone has.

It is a result of the decision to have the "Catwoman" motif occur by accident (witness the goggle-ears), rather than the character's design. It avoids the need for an explicit 'origin', or the need to explore the character too deeply. Some people may like that, I can't help but see it as a bit of a waste.

Anyway, I don't want to get into this circular argument again.

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Old 04-02-2013, 10:35 AM   #502
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

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'Riddled overstated the case
Big time. I'm not interested in revisiting the same circular debate with you either regwec. I respect your opinion, and the way you've presented your arguments. Can't say the same for OutRiddled, who goes so far off the deep end that he tends to alienate even the folks who might agree with him to a degree.

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Old 04-02-2013, 10:43 AM   #503
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

Two great actresses, take your pick of your favourite interpretation. They are both incredibly valid.



I have some issues with how Nolan chose to neuter his version, but I'll take it...

This is how my list ultimately shakes out (After a few more viewings of TDKR) for best Catwoman:

1.) Michelle Pfeiffer
2.) Julie Newmar
3.) Anne Hathaway


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Old 04-02-2013, 10:45 AM   #504
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

I think the Anne Hathaway Catwoman costume is just as much in the public consciousness as the Michelle Pfieffer one. The image of it has been around since the 60s through Julie Newmar, and it's the version I see more commonly at Halloween parties (since the Batman Returns one is more expensive to buy but the Newmar one can be put together through various clothing accessories and still look like that Catwoman). Anyone looking at Anne's one would immediately see it is inspired by Julie's.

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Old 04-02-2013, 10:46 AM   #505
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

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I think the Anne Hathaway Catwoman costume is just as much in the public consciousness as the Michelle Pfieffer one. The image of it has been around since the 60s through Julie Newmar, and it's the version I see more commonly at Halloween parties (since the Batman Returns one is more expensive to buy but the Newmar one can be put together through various clothing accessories and still look like that Catwoman). Anyone looking at Anne's one would immediately see it is inspired by Julie's.
Nope, they'd think it was inspired by Underworld

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Old 04-02-2013, 10:48 AM   #506
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

While Anne definitely received a positive response for her Catwoman, I wouldn't say it was more talked about than Hardy's Bane, at least it dosent feel like it.

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Old 04-02-2013, 10:51 AM   #507
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

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Nope, they'd think it was inspired by Underworld
But these same people would also think the Punisher costume is from The Matrix.


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Old 04-02-2013, 10:53 AM   #508
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

I don't think there was a ''standout'' performance in TDKR in general... However taking personal taste into account, for me it was Bale. For somebody else it was Hardy, another Hathaway.

But I don't recall anyone coming out of the movie saying ''[TDKR cast member] completely stole that movie''...

Certainly not in the way we heard about:

- Nicholson
- Pfeiffer
- Carrey
- Bale (To a degree in Begins)
- Ledger

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Old 04-02-2013, 10:58 AM   #509
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I don't think there was a ''standout'' performance in TDKR in general... However taking personal taste into account, for me it was Bale. For somebody else it was Hardy, another Hathaway.

But I don't recall anyone coming out of the movie saying ''[TDKR cast member] completely stole that movie''...

Certainly not in the way we heard about:

- Nicholson
- Pfeiffer
- Carrey
- Bale (To a degree in Begins)
- Ledger
My personal favorite performance was Bale as well. I too never got the sense that any one person was universally talked about more, but from my circle at least, all people do is quote Bane.

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Old 04-02-2013, 11:00 AM   #510
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

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I don't think there was a ''standout'' performance in TDKR in general... However taking personal taste into account, for me it was Bale. For somebody else it was Hardy, another Hathaway.

But I don't recall anyone coming out of the movie saying ''[TDKR cast member] completely stole that movie''...

Certainly not in the way we heard about:

- Nicholson
- Pfeiffer
- Carrey
- Bale (To a degree in Begins)
- Ledger
Personally, I agree. I think Bale was the standout in TDKR. But I've also heard a healthy mix of people singling out Hardy, Hathaway or even JGL as their favorite part of the movie. There's definitely no consensus on who "stole" the movie, although I think Caine definitely had a couple of the most standout acting moments despite how little screen time he had. Ultimately it's on ensemble piece, but I think it's nice to have a movie where everyone has their own favorite. The Bane impersonation craze might tip things in his favor, but that's mostly a guy thing. There's the whole female demographic to account for. In my circle, all the girls loved Anne (and loved Pfeiffer too). I think they quite enjoyed having a "sane" ass-kicking chick in a Batman movie for once.

And actually, I think it's a bit unfair to Devito that Pfeiffer seems to be remembered so much more favorably. He may have been repulsive and the not The Penguin people were expecting, but he was really great in Returns. A memorable villain for sure.

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Old 04-02-2013, 11:04 AM   #511
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

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And actually, I think it's a bit unfair to Devito that Pfeiffer seems to be remembered so much more favorably. He may have been repulsive and the not The Penguin people were expecting, but he was really great in Returns. A memorable villain for sure.
I think it's a powerhouse performance... it's absurd that he was nominated for a razzie.

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Old 04-02-2013, 11:06 AM   #512
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I think it's a powerhouse performance... it's absurd that he was nominated for a razzie.
He was? I never even knew that. Wish I still didn't!

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Old 04-02-2013, 11:06 AM   #513
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

^ Not only do I think its unfair to Devito, I think its unfair to Keaton that yet again a villain got more attention for their performance than he did.

Then again, He and Burton brought that on themselves due to their approach to the character.

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Old 04-02-2013, 11:08 AM   #514
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

Yeah, Keaton was great in Returns. I actually prefer his performance there to his Batman 89 performance. It's a bit more nuanced, I feel.

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Old 04-02-2013, 11:12 AM   #515
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

I liked Keaton's scenes with Alfred, Shrek, and of course Selina.

I think the Batman/Catwoman relationship was better in TDKR, but the Bruce/Selina relationship was much better in BR.

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Old 04-02-2013, 11:19 AM   #516
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I liked Keaton's scenes with Alfred, Shrek, and of course Selina.

I think the Batman/Catwoman relationship was better in TDKR, but the Bruce/Selina relationship was much better in BR.
What was Shrek doing in that film, and how come he showed up again in Ang Lee's Hulk?

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Old 04-02-2013, 12:37 PM   #517
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Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and say that anyone who can't decipher what character Anne Hathaway's Catwoman is in a few years time is either hopelessly pop culture ignorant, or not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Newmar is an icon of the 60s. What is Hathaway mainly known for? The Princess Diaries - lame BS for pre-teen girls.

Face it, the main reason she was chosen is because Alice in Wonderland 2010 made 1 billion at the box office.

Don't tell me about the oscar she won for Les Miserables... the Academy Awards is just flavour of the month, everybody knows that.

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Old 04-02-2013, 12:49 PM   #518
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

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Newmar is an icon of the 60s. What is Hathaway mainly known for? The Princess Diaries - lame BS for pre-teen girls.
Brokeback Mountain.
Rachel Getting Married.
The Devil Wears Prada.
Les Miserables.
The Dark Knight Rises.

I'd say she's much more known for all of those movies than for The Princess Diaries. I think most people who aren't pre-teen girls would agree with that.

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Face it, the main reason she was chosen is because Alice in Wonderland 2010 made 1 billion at the box office.
I really find it hard to resist the urge to call you a name that would get be suspended from these boards, so all I'll say is this: stop pulling stupid conclusions like this from your ass. You're embarrassing yourself.

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Don't tell me about the oscar she won for Les Miserables... the Academy Awards is just flavour of the month, everybody knows that.
No, everybody does not know that. Because it's not true. Some actors/actresses do fade away after winning an Oscar, but that's usually because of their own career choices. More often than not, winning an Oscar is a huge career boost and the role goes down as one of their most memorable. Everything about Hathaway's choice in movies and the way she handles herself leads me to believe that she will have a long, illustrious career and that her performance in Les Mis will NOT be a flavor the month but will be remembered by her fans and cinema fans in general as a fantastic performance.

But I guess we can regroup in 20 years and see which one of us is right.

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Old 04-02-2013, 12:52 PM   #519
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Yeah, I just don't think Hathaway was that memorable because there was nothing really for her to chew on as an actress.

At the end of Returns, the scene where Michelle has the mask off telling Bruce "The law doesn't apply to people like us" scene is just fantastic. I'll take that scene over anything Hathaway did in TDKR.

Not trying to criticize Anne, but Michelle was given more to work with and she just killed it.

And I agree about Devito, he was crazy, hilarious, even haunting in the role. Great performance.

Same with Keaton.

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Old 04-02-2013, 12:59 PM   #520
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Newmar is an icon of the 60s. What is Hathaway mainly known for? The Princess Diaries - lame BS for pre-teen girls.

Face it, the main reason she was chosen is because Alice in Wonderland 2010 made 1 billion at the box office.

Don't tell me about the oscar she won for Les Miserables... the Academy Awards is just flavour of the month, everybody knows that.
Dude, what the heck? Once again, you completely shift the discussion once I make a point.

In fact this whole discussion has just been you finding new creative ways to say, "I don't like Anne Hathaway", "I don't like TDKR" and "I don't like Nolan". Just come out and say it. Then there's nothing more to discuss, because I can't argue with you having an opinion.

Btw, real sly of you to try and give a Burton film credit for Hathaway's casting in a roundabout way. That has to be one of the most absurd arguments I've heard out of you yet.

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Old 04-02-2013, 01:18 PM   #521
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Brokeback Mountain.
Rachel Getting Married.
The Devil Wears Prada.
Les Miserables.
The Dark Knight Rises.

I'd say she's much more known for all of those movies than for The Princess Diaries. I think most people who aren't pre-teen girls would agree with that.
Those aren't her 'claim to fame' though.

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I really find it hard to resist the urge to call you a name that would get be suspended from these boards, so all I'll say is this: stop pulling stupid conclusions like this from your ass. You're embarrassing yourself.
That's just stating a fact. You think out of hundreds of potential actresses they just happened to stumble on one who was in a recent picture that made 1 billion dollars at the box office? That's some coincidence.

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Old 04-02-2013, 01:23 PM   #522
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That's just stating a fact. You think out of hundreds of potential actresses they just happened to stumble on one who was in a recent picture that made 1 billion dollars at the box office? That's some coincidence.
She didn't have much to do with that. They should have cast Johnny Depp as Bane if that's how they were basing their casting decisions.

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Old 04-02-2013, 01:27 PM   #523
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

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Newmar is an icon of the 60s. What is Hathaway mainly known for? The Princess Diaries - lame BS for pre-teen girls.

Face it, the main reason she was chosen is because Alice in Wonderland 2010 made 1 billion at the box office.

Don't tell me about the oscar she won for Les Miserables... the Academy Awards is just flavour of the month, everybody knows that.
Do enjoy reinventing reality to suit your imagination? If you could offer a shred of proof for any of this then your opinions might be worth something.

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Old 04-02-2013, 01:27 PM   #524
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She didn't have much to do with that.
It doesn't matter. It's all about name-brand recognition. 1 billion dollars is a lot of tickets sold. Therefore, a lot of people saw her in the movie. Hence, name-brand recognition.

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They should have cast Johnny Depp as Bane if that's how they were basing their casting decisions.
Tom Hardy was in Inception, which was also a recent big hit.

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Old 04-02-2013, 01:30 PM   #525
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Tom Hardy was in Inception, which was also a recent big hit.
Yeah, that's why Nolan was already considering Hardy for the part while Inception was still in production and some analysts were predicting that it would flop.

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