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Old 03-22-2013, 06:21 PM   #476
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
Lol, how come?
Every time I have watched TDKR I have had different feelings towards it.

First time in IMAX: Confused, but knew I enjoyed it, but couldn't quite articulate why.

Second time in a regular theater: Really enjoyed the hell out of it.

Third viewing, first time on Blu-Ray: I was really tired that night but had the house to myself and really wanted to watch it. Unfortunately my fatigue robbed my enjoyment of the film and I ended up thinking I didn't like it as much as I thought.

Fourth viewing at home: I watched it with my mom and once again loved the film.

So I'm assuming I will have mixed feelings about the film again next time I watch it, lol.

It's funny because I watch tons of random scenes from the film on youtube all the time. And what is really interesting is the final chase with the Bat has really grown on me. I really love that scene now. I was a little underwhelmed with it at first, but it's definitely a highlight now for me in not only TDKR itself, but the entire trilogy.

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Old 03-22-2013, 06:22 PM   #477
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

Oh Joe Pesci. I need to listen to Kevin Smith to hear his opinion on it. I'm going to die.

*Comes out panting* So he liked it, cool.

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Old 03-22-2013, 06:23 PM   #478
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I never followed the BB or TDK forums after those films were released. So I'm not quite sure what the feeling was. Within my group of friends in "real" life, I'd say that the majority did not like TDKR as much as the first 2. However there were a few that liked it as much or better then the previous outings. I'm not saying that indicitive of anything or represents a poll or any sort. Just saying that was my experience. I would hope or think that i've presented my view of things in a polite way and as BatLobsterRises knows, I'm a huge fan of Nolan's Bat films That is true about the Kevin Smith podcasts. I remember hearing the first one and he really praised the film. Then in the second one (which most of it I agree with) he changed his mind. I think even the guy called him out on it and how he loved it initially. I was thinking the same thing myself. I agree there were leaps of logic or plot holes in TDKR, but there were things in TDK that actually really bugged me as well. For me, it was more the plot, then the plot holes that dragged it down for me. I will say that I'll miss the excitement of waiting for a future Nolan Batman film.

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Old 03-22-2013, 06:26 PM   #479
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

Almost everyone I know said "it was good...I guess....definitely not as good as TDK though"

That beings said, almost everyone of these peeps only liked TDK, and that's it really. This is your average bro dude I'm talking bout.

Most people I know who liked Batman Begins and were really invested in the Batman character set-up in that movie really liked TDKR a lot though.

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Old 03-22-2013, 06:27 PM   #480
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I found my own views on TDKR to be the same with the people I know as I know a lot of people, including my brother as well, that loved the film(although I never asked any of them which is their favorite of the three films), some who just liked it as they were never CBM fans anyways, and only one friend that completely hated it(he hated BB too but loved TDK).

But, I will say that that's better than the other two "big" CBMs of the summer...half enjoyed Avengers, half didn't; most of my friends didn't even care for TAS-M except for one and my brother who enjoyed it more than any of Raimi's trilogy.

I should ask around what they feel about Dredd though as that has quickly tied The Avengers in my mind on the best CBMs of 2012(at #2).

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Old 03-22-2013, 06:30 PM   #481
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My one bro-dude brother loved TDK, didn't like TDKR as much because it wasn't as tight as TDK. He thought TDKR should have been two movies. He thought Avengers was just silly comicbook movie with a cool action scene at the end.

My other brother, who loves BTAS and liked BB and TDK didn't like TDKR because it wasn't Batman enough (leaving the cowl to Blake), and the Talia under-characterization. He loved Avengers, not only for the action, but for how it treated all the characters.

Me, who loved Batman Begins more than TDK loved and still loves TDKR. I loved the Avengers as well, though not as much now; I only care about the action.


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Old 03-22-2013, 06:31 PM   #482
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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I think it reflects it more than your own hunches though.
Lol...video bloggers of people wanting to be reviewers so badly that aren't REALY reviewers and you does not reflect more than my hunches when I look at most of the critics on RT that has said nothing about Bane's voice or the mentions of TDKR on Top Ten lists that also said nothing about Bane's voice.


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Old 03-22-2013, 06:39 PM   #483
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Every time I have watched TDKR I have had different feelings towards it.

First time in IMAX: Confused, but knew I enjoyed it, but couldn't quite articulate why.

Second time in a regular theater: Really enjoyed the hell out of it.

Third viewing, first time on Blu-Ray: I was really tired that night but had the house to myself and really wanted to watch it. Unfortunately my fatigue robbed my enjoyment of the film and I ended up thinking I didn't like it as much as I thought.

Fourth viewing at home: I watched it with my mom and once again loved the film.

So I'm assuming I will have mixed feelings about the film again next time I watch it, lol.

It's funny because I watch tons of random scenes from the film on youtube all the time. And what is really interesting is the final chase with the Bat has really grown on me. I really love that scene now. I was a little underwhelmed with it at first, but it's definitely a highlight now for me in not only TDKR itself, but the entire trilogy.
Ahh, got it. It seems like you've just watched the film at the wrong times though, because on your other examples, it seems like you really enjoyed it

I have seen TDKR about eleven times now, including theatre and at my apartment and I'm still enjoying the movie to this day...really fascinates me with the subtle hints the film leaves such as Bruce and Fox walking up to The Bat while we see part of another that ends up playing a part in the end when Fox has some guys looking over to see what he could have done.

That finality, I think, is the reason why I, my brother and the others that I knew that enjoyed the film so much as it feels like a CB version of a Lord of the Rings or Star Wars. I am fine with any director's version if I can feel like it's trying to accomplish something(which wasn't what I viewed with TAS-M...it all felt like a set-up for a sequel that didn't accomplish anything to me...and the script blew chunks, lol).

My one friend that I know that really hated the film though...he is a "geek" like myself, but I still don't know what he was hoping for as he wasn't even a fan of Batman Begins...maybe he didn't care for Batman's origin or the League of Shadows. I should ask him his reasons one of these days, haha. But him and I both enjoy Batman:TAS and the Dark Knight Returns films.

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Old 03-22-2013, 06:39 PM   #484
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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Lol...video bloggers of people wanted to be reviewers so badly that aren't REALY reviewers and you does not reflect more than my hunches when I look at most of the critics on RT that has said nothing about Bane's voice or the mentions of TDKR on Top Ten lists that also said nothing about Bane's voice.
Then I'm not sure if you've actually looked at most of the critics. Maybe it was just the reviews I saw, but the sound issues have been mentioned with this movie more than any other big budget movie in recent memory.

I mean, just the fact that we're even arguing about this seems like it's evidence enough. How many other movies have you had to argue that there were no sound issues? Probably none, because they didn't have any.

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Old 03-22-2013, 06:47 PM   #485
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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Then I'm not sure if you've actually looked at most of the critics. Maybe it was just the reviews I saw, but the sound issues have been mentioned with this movie more than any other big budget movie in recent memory.


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I mean, just the fact that we're even arguing about this seems like it's evidence enough. How many other movies have you had to argue that there were no sound issues? Probably none, because they didn't have any.
I never said no one had a problem with it(and that is why I'm talking to someone who had trouble with Bane's voice...hint-hint, obviously 0% didn't have a problem with it, lol), but the majority surely didn't.

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Old 03-22-2013, 06:53 PM   #486
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

even if the majority didn't, I still say that this is the only movie in which this has even been an issue worth debating. Thus, its a problem worth mentioning.

Even a problem that only affects 10% of viewers is significant if no other big budget movie has sound-mixing issues like this.

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Old 03-22-2013, 07:12 PM   #487
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

I noticed those complaints about the sound on Inception too. I think Nolan just likes his mixes loud these days. He's even said as much, I think.

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Old 03-22-2013, 07:12 PM   #488
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Ehhh. A small minority that had a problem with the sound issues...something I never cared about(the issue or that some had an issue about it). Just use subtitles if it's such a pain to hear, lol.

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Old 03-22-2013, 08:06 PM   #489
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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The majority could understand Bane.

Please tell me you have statistics or evidence to back this up beyond "well my inner circle of friends and family who LOVED the movie like me didn't have a problem".

I'd say the Bane voice was frustrating for a good amount of movie goers, so much so that Nolan was criticized for it left and right (which forced his hand in changing it in the prologue and making it worse) and after it's release.

It wasn't exaggerated, real folks had a problem. Please don't say a majority was fine with it, that's such a baseless claim. You're going to say that after al the reports? All the blogs? All the comments? All the complaints? Nolan himself even said "it doesn't really matter if you hear him or not", straight from the horses mouth.


While you may love this film, hold it close to your heart, that doesn't mean that's how the "majority" feels. Honestly, you know what the majority really is now? Folks that don't give a damn about the movie, good or bad and don't have the desire to debate like we do. That's the true majority. Folks that saw it and moved on. When there's a thread like this one with other messageboards on the Internet having similar problems, I'd say there's a good chance this is a movie that had quite a few problems beyond nitpicks, don't you?




As for Bane's voice, I definitely had a problem with it and I'm definitely not hard of hearing. My hearing is fine. The voice WAS frustrating and a problem for a lot of people, lets not downplay this here. Do I know everything he's saying now? Yup, but that's only after multiple viewings, transcripts, the Internet and screenplay. Gordon was also a huge problem for me. That whole line after Blake rips him about the conspiracy was a mumbling mess. The only thing I got at the time from Oldman was shackles and filth. It was awful.




Lets try to remember, just because we feel a certain way doesn't mean most do or the other side of the argument is exaggerating (myself included). It's our opinion and ours alone.


Last edited by milost; 03-22-2013 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:15 PM   #490
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

The Oldman line was very strange. His dialogue was unusually low in that particular scene.

Now for Bane, did they just re-dub his voice for the prologue and leave the voice unchanged for the rest of the film, or did they change anything else post-prologue?

I never understood why they just changed the prologue and kept the rest the same, if that was the case.

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Old 03-22-2013, 09:13 PM   #491
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Please tell me you have statistics or evidence to back this up beyond "well my inner circle of friends and family who LOVED the movie like me didn't have a problem".

I'd say the Bane voice was frustrating for a good amount of movie goers, so much so that Nolan was criticized for it left and right (which forced his hand in changing it in the prologue and making it worse) and after it's release.

It wasn't exaggerated, real folks had a problem. Please don't say a majority was fine with it, that's such a baseless claim. You're going to say that after al the reports? All the blogs? All the comments? All the complaints? Nolan himself even said "it doesn't really matter if you hear him or not", straight from the horses mouth.


While you may love this film, hold it close to your heart, that doesn't mean that's how the "majority" feels. Honestly, you know what the majority really is now? Folks that don't give a damn about the movie, good or bad and don't have the desire to debate like we do. That's the true majority. Folks that saw it and moved on. When there's a thread like this one with other messageboards on the Internet having similar problems, I'd say there's a good chance this is a movie that had quite a few problems beyond nitpicks, don't you?




As for Bane's voice, I definitely had a problem with it and I'm definitely not hard of hearing. My hearing is fine. The voice WAS frustrating and a problem for a lot of people, lets not downplay this here. Do I know everything he's saying now? Yup, but that's only after multiple viewings, transcripts, the Internet and screenplay. Gordon was also a huge problem for me. That whole line after Blake rips him about the conspiracy was a mumbling mess. The only thing I got at the time from Oldman was shackles and filth. It was awful.




Lets try to remember, just because we feel a certain way doesn't mean most do or the other side of the argument is exaggerating (myself included). It's our opinion and ours alone.


Before the change, sure the execs had problems and that's why Nolan changed the tone, but it's still silly to say a lot of people had a problem with it as much as you want to say it's silly for me to say the majority of the audience didn't.

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Old 03-22-2013, 09:42 PM   #492
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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The Oldman line was very strange. His dialogue was unusually low in that particular scene.

Now for Bane, did they just re-dub his voice for the prologue and leave the voice unchanged for the rest of the film, or did they change anything else post-prologue?

I never understood why they just changed the prologue and kept the rest the same, if that was the case.
What was the line from Oldman that was so odd? Was it the "....blood on the hands line"? But I agree that it was odd that Gordon just sat there and didn't say much when he could've told Blake what Harvey did. I'm mean, Blake doesn't even ask what the heck is going on?

Regarding milost's complaints about Bane's voice, I liked it. Sure, there were some times where you couldn't understand him, especially in the theater where the bass it pumped up.

But how could you not like his voice when he was talking to Bruce in the prison cell with his eye rolls? My favorite line was when he told Bruce "..when Gotham's ashes..........you then have my permission to die".

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Old 03-22-2013, 10:04 PM   #493
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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What was the line from Oldman that was so odd? Was it the "....blood on the hands line"? But I agree that it was odd that Gordon just sat there and didn't say much when he could've told Blake what Harvey did. I'm mean, Blake doesn't even ask what the heck is going on?
Oh but if Blake asked what was going on then Gordon would have to mention he who cannot be named in this movie and what he did to Dent, and how he broke Dent and turned him into a killer.

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Old 03-22-2013, 10:07 PM   #494
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Based purely on how many debates, threads, articles and parody videos popped up about Bane's voice from Day 1, it's pretty obvious it was quite a big issue. Denying that is just refusing to look at the facts.

And this is coming from someone who absolutely LOVES the voice (sans new prologue) and understood about 90% of it the first time.

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Old 03-22-2013, 10:07 PM   #495
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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What was the line from Oldman that was so odd? Was it the "....blood on the hands line"? But I agree that it was odd that Gordon just sat there and didn't say much when he could've told Blake what Harvey did. I'm mean, Blake doesn't even ask what the heck is going on?

Regarding milost's complaints about Bane's voice, I liked it. Sure, there were some times where you couldn't understand him, especially in the theater where the bass it pumped up.

But how could you not like his voice when he was talking to Bruce in the prison cell with his eye rolls? My favorite line was when he told Bruce "..when Gotham's ashes..........you then have my permission to die".
It was when Gordon tried to explain why he went along with the Dent cover up to Blake - There's a point far out there, when the structures fail you. When the rules aren't weapons anymore, they're shackles, letting the bad guy get ahead.

It's great dialogue, but for some reason Oldman's lines sound buried in the mix.

Yeah, I really loved Bane's voice, especially in the scene when he kills Daggett:

And this gives you power over me?

Your money and infrastructure have been important...till now.

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Old 03-22-2013, 10:10 PM   #496
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My favorite deliveries of his are: "So, you came back to die with your city?" and "Yesss. But not of your body... of your soul."

Chills every time. All my problems with TDKR aside, I think Hardy's performance is very underrated.

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Old 03-22-2013, 10:14 PM   #497
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His voice itself is amazing. I love it.

The mix however isn't.

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Old 03-22-2013, 10:16 PM   #498
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His voice itself is amazing. I love it.

The mix however isn't.
Now that is something I can agree with.

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Old 03-22-2013, 10:17 PM   #499
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Oh but if Blake asked what was going on then Gordon would have to mention he who cannot be named in this movie and what he did to Dent, and how he broke Dent and turned him into a killer.
It's indirectly, but the part where Gordon says "Letting the bad guy get ahead" has to be a jab at The Joker.

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Old 03-22-2013, 10:21 PM   #500
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Before the change, sure the execs had problems and that's why Nolan changed the tone, but it's still silly to say a lot of people had a problem with it as much as you want to say it's silly for me to say the majority of the audience didn't.
Don't face palm my post please, there's nothing in it that's outrageous. There was criticism during it's theatrical run too. Or are you just forgetting all those screenings with the criticisms. Where do you think the WB execs got the heads up from in the beginning? That they just made it up. As far back as December we'd see "man great action sequence those stunts . . . but man, Bane's voice." That wasn't executives, those were regular people like you and I. It just wasn't the prologue either, it carried to it's release, from twitter to fans to reviewers. Alot of people did have problems myself included. I'm not dabbling in majorities like you are, Or even percentages. I'm saying all over the place their were criticisms about it. Some on these very boards.


Look we get that it wasn't a problem for you or your cousins or whatever but that doesn't mean it's a minority. We can't even measure it so it's silly. Point is a good bit of people had a problem with it and you're downplaying it because you don't agree. Just like other criticisms are "nitpicks" for you. Just please, stop with majorities and minorities and the implications that only a small amount of viewers had problems that we're discussing.

Also that bit of "just use the subtitles" is outrageous. What were people supposed to do during it's theatrical run?


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