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Old 03-03-2013, 07:01 PM   #126
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

I just want to make one point:

A lot of people complain about there not being enough Batman in this film and those people miss the point. Batman is not a costume, an array of gadgets or a cave. Batman is one side, some may say the real side, of one character. A character that is present throughout the film. The costume doesn't make the hero, it's just a tool. Batman is in The Pit, in hiding, travelling the world to train in Begins, every moment since he got a purpose with the LOS, it's been Batman. The determination, the drive, the morals, that's Batman. Not the costume.

In short, you're caring more about a suit than about a character.

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Old 03-03-2013, 07:09 PM   #127
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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Originally Posted by Smegger56 View Post
It was just not a very well delivered movie when compared to the other two. The other two had me interested. Had me hooked. This one didn't. I keep drifting off in large parts. It's just not as interesting.

And it's such a shame.
It's because it bit off more than it could chew, and that left a lot of characters and plot points under used and under developed. Or in Blake's case the over use of his character at the expense of other characters like Selina.

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Numerous complaints? Lol, hardly. A few posts on here doesn't equate to numerous. If there were as you would love to believe, I would have heard some outside of these forums, but I really don't.
I'm not talking about posts on this forum. That's too obvious. Reviews, both written and video, have all brought it up.

http://filmcapsule.com/2012/07/21/th...ht-rises-2012/
http://www.weekendnotes.com/the-dark...-review/28565/
http://letterboxd.com/donutsupreme/f...-knight-rises/
http://independentcinema.wordpress.c...-knight-rises/
http://theweekender.com/stories/Dark...t-great,180543
http://thefourohfive.com/review/arti...k-knight-rises
http://www.grindmyreels.com/2012/07/...es-review.html
http://www.underthegunreview.net/201...-knight-rises/
http://www.bfi.org.uk/news/sightsoun...t-rises-review

I could go on forever posting links to reviews that bring it up.

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Old 03-03-2013, 07:21 PM   #128
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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I just want to make one point:

A lot of people complain about there not being enough Batman in this film and those people miss the point. Batman is not a costume, an array of gadgets or a cave. Batman is one side, some may say the real side, of one character. A character that is present throughout the film. The costume doesn't make the hero, it's just a tool. Batman is in The Pit, in hiding, travelling the world to train in Begins, every moment since he got a purpose with the LOS, it's been Batman. The determination, the drive, the morals, that's Batman. Not the costume.

In short, you're caring more about a suit than about a character.
This is why I often say that in Rises, Bruce Wayne behaves more like Batman than Batman does.

The thing is, with Begins, The Dark Knight, and Tim Burton's movies, it's pretty clear that Bruce Wayne is a mask worn by Batman. When he puts on the costume, his true nature becomes manifested.

It's not just about the costume, it's about that poetry, that expression. That seems to have become muddled.

Batman is not just a tool. Or, in my opinion, that's a lame way to portray him.

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Old 03-03-2013, 07:58 PM   #129
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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This is why I often say that in Rises, Bruce Wayne behaves more like Batman than Batman does.

The thing is, with Begins, The Dark Knight, and Tim Burton's movies, it's pretty clear that Bruce Wayne is a mask worn by Batman. When he puts on the costume, his true nature becomes manifested.

It's not just about the costume, it's about that poetry, that expression. That seems to have become muddled.

Batman is not just a tool. Or, in my opinion, that's a lame way to portray him.
Very much agree with this. I very much loved the direction Nolan went with an aging Batman in TDKR.

I still wish we had about the same amount of Batman in the suit screen time as BB, but I digress.

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Old 03-03-2013, 08:23 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
It's because it bit off more than it could chew, and that left a lot of characters and plot points under used and under developed. Or in Blake's case the over use of his character at the expense of other characters like Selina.



I'm not talking about posts on this forum. That's too obvious. Reviews, both written and video, have all brought it up.

http://filmcapsule.com/2012/07/21/th...ht-rises-2012/
http://www.weekendnotes.com/the-dark...-review/28565/
http://letterboxd.com/donutsupreme/f...-knight-rises/
http://independentcinema.wordpress.c...-knight-rises/
http://theweekender.com/stories/Dark...t-great,180543
http://thefourohfive.com/review/arti...k-knight-rises
http://www.grindmyreels.com/2012/07/...es-review.html
http://www.underthegunreview.net/201...-knight-rises/
http://www.bfi.org.uk/news/sightsoun...t-rises-review

I could go on forever posting links to reviews that bring it up.

The man does his research. As always. well done. Soon to be quoted.


Last edited by Ryan; 03-03-2013 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:23 PM   #131
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

Indeed, it is obvious to bring up the nitpicks and complaints of fanboys, lol, but you can bring up some reviews that views such(and negative reviews by the way...just blinding the fact that there are positive reviews I guess ), but I also know some reviews that state otherwise.

And the fact that TDKR makes itself into some accomplished Top Ten lists...the film has way more love than hate


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Old 03-03-2013, 08:46 PM   #132
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

Bane voice played a major part in it. While he sounded cool and different when you can't understand without putting your ear to the screen what the villain is saying in a movie that is already not that interesting there is a problem. I watched this film with a friend last year and every other word they would ask what Bane says. I remember when I saw it at the movies after a while not even trying to figure out what he says because it doesn't matter and the next scene should explain it anyway.

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Old 03-03-2013, 08:48 PM   #133
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

It's hard to judge the ratio. I mean, there are people who say it's a masterpiece, but then again, this thread exists.

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Old 03-03-2013, 08:50 PM   #134
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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Bane voice played a major part in it. While he sounded cool and different when you can't understand without putting your ear to the screen what the villain is saying in a movie that is already not that interesting there is a problem. I watched this film with a friend last year and every other word they would ask what Bane says. I remember when I saw it at the movies after a while not even trying to figure out what he says because it doesn't matter and the next scene should explain it anyway.
I never understood this complaint, I can understand every word coming from Bane.

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Old 03-03-2013, 09:08 PM   #135
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

I as well. I could say Bane's entire dialogue in the film as much as I can say Joker's just off the top of my head.

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Old 03-03-2013, 09:10 PM   #136
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It's hard to judge the ratio. I mean, there are people who say it's a masterpiece, but then again, this thread exists.
This specific thread shouldn't have been created, and the one who did, ended up getting banned, lol.

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Old 03-03-2013, 09:13 PM   #137
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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Agreed. This film focused more on the characters than the past two films that tried to cover all of Gotham. While some can view it as a "bad thing", the third film felt the most like a character piece and it worked with it being the ending of the series as it had to bring closure to Bruce Wayne's story and build up the "newcomer", Robin John Blake.
You and Bat Lobster Rises make good points; I was actually talking about the plot points though.

Selina is at Wayne Manor for the finger prints.
Selina is doing it to free herself from her past.

Folley's there to show us that good cops aren't necessarily nice cops. He followed the letter of the law, but was still ambitious and more than willing to one-up Gordon (despite their implied history as partners after TDK).

Blake's there to act as Gotham's voice (mainly during Bane's speech when he called Gordon on the coverup) and embody the inspiration Bruce wanted to achieve as the Batman (as stated in Begins; the scene where he and Alfred are discussing his return in the plane back to Gotham).

Bruce feels like there's nothing left for him; he wants to preserve Harvey's legacy, has no real reason to put on the cape/cowl, and failed to salvage his company after throwing everything into the reactor.

Batman happened to be at Daggett's because he was looking into Daggett hiring Bane; Catwoman happened to be there because she wanted the Clean Slate.

Bane's there for apotheosis (revealed through the sewer fight and the scope of his plans); Talia's there for revenge. Bane = who Bruce could've been in the League. Talia was stuck on her dead daddy, much like Bruce was stuck on his dead parents.

Everything just clicked for me. Not to put down the other films; the definitive scenes for me, are Bruce's training in BB and the confrontation between Two-Face and Gordon where Batman saves Gordon's son and takes the fall for the murders.

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Old 03-03-2013, 09:16 PM   #138
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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I never understood this complaint, I can understand every word coming from Bane.
It took me a few views on some of the lines. Same with one of Batman's last barks as he's about to depart with the bomb. The problem is that some people have even more trouble than I had.

I don't mind having to rewatch to decipher messy line deliveries (cause I'll be rewatching anyway and sometimes that just happens with movies) so much as I mind the massively out of place editing job on Bane's voice. It's far too obvious that it's been tinkered with, or that he's sat in a little studio dubbing some of it over, so it feels like he isn't in the room with everyone else when he's speaking. Very different acoustics.

That takes me out of the movie, makes me wince internally. I lose my suspension of disbelief and my focus along with it. Start judging it rather than getting lost in it.

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Old 03-03-2013, 09:20 PM   #139
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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I as well. I could say Bane's entire dialogue in the film as much as I can say Joker's just off the top of my head.
Me too, now. But it took a lot more rewinding to be sure than it did with Joker.

Come to think of it, for the longest time I used to think Joker was telling Harvey that chaos is 'Fear', but he was really saying 'Fair'. Weird accent to it.

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Old 03-03-2013, 09:20 PM   #140
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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Is this really an issue with anybody?

I spent a lot of time defending The Dark Knight in this respect, and it was understandable how some people couldn't see it, but Rises? It seems like quiiite a stretch to say Bruce isn't the obvious focus there!
Focus in execution not story.

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Old 03-03-2013, 09:21 PM   #141
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Focus in execution not story.
Can you elaborate?

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Old 03-03-2013, 09:33 PM   #142
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

The film is trying to do so many things at once that plot elements begin to suffocate one and other due to lack of proper development. It's essentially two films worth of narrative stuffed into one movie. TDK was like that as well but the difference is the execution was spot on where Rises isn't. Rises is clearly a Bruce Wayne story, there's no doubting that, but it's a story that gets lost in an amongst everything else that is going on, as a result character arcs and plot elements aren't given the proper time the need to do the story justice and illogical issues arise. In the end all you get is essentially a highlights package of a much longer movie. I don't often say this but Rises is the type of movie that needs an extra 30-45 mins to do the story they're trying to do.

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Old 03-03-2013, 09:40 PM   #143
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

The only thing I felt "suffocated" was the Harvey Dent lie and the reveal. Everything else, including the six months siege, it felt fulfilling even if it didn't get all the time in the world it needed in the time frame of the film.

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Old 03-03-2013, 09:48 PM   #144
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

See, the 6 months siege was a joke, the justification for it was flimsy at best. This series prided itself on being a step above other superhero type of films yet fell into the realm of using a really cliched approach to an otherwise unique concept. Militia taking over a US city - awesome idea, reasons for it - uncreative and bland. All those cops sent under ground - not just illogical, completely stupid, like genuinely stupid. Revenge plot - uninteresting and pointless.

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Old 03-03-2013, 09:56 PM   #145
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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The film is trying to do so many things at once that plot elements begin to suffocate one and other due to lack of proper development. It's essentially two films worth of narrative stuffed into one movie. TDK was like that as well but the difference is the execution was spot on where Rises isn't. Rises is clearly a Bruce Wayne story, there's no doubting that, but it's a story that gets lost in an amongst everything else that is going on, as a result character arcs and plot elements aren't given the proper time the need to do the story justice and illogical issues arise. In the end all you get is essentially a highlights package of a much longer movie. I don't often say this but Rises is the type of movie that needs an extra 30-45 mins to do the story they're trying to do.
That is pretty spot on.

It makes me wonder just how much the editor had to trim off of TDKR to fit the IMAX time limitation. Not to bring up any extended cut debates, but if Nolan had to cut off about 15-20 minutes worth of footage then that's a real hard pill to swallow. I think I'd rather not know just how much was actually cut out now, lol.

I always felt the scene where Bruce is lowered into the pit, and then abruptly awakens to find Bane hovering over him felt...off. I think that it should have lingered maybe 5-6 seconds longer.

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Old 03-03-2013, 10:01 PM   #146
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

My friend thinks there's a whole sequence where Alfred helps Bruce get back to Gotham.

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Old 03-03-2013, 10:03 PM   #147
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See, the 6 months siege was a joke, the justification for it was flimsy at best. This series prided itself on being a step above other superhero type of films yet fell into the realm of using a really cliched approach to an otherwise unique concept. Militia taking over a US city - awesome idea, reasons for it - uncreative and bland. All those cops sent under ground - not just illogical, completely stupid, like genuinely stupid. Revenge plot - uninteresting and pointless.
The siege started off in an extremely haunting way. But kind of collapsed under it's own weight. I agree, Gordon sending all; if not the majority of the cops underground was bogus. But what's even more bothersome is the siege is about what, 5 months, IIRC? I know Bruce had to have a fair amount of time in the pit to regroup and rebuild himself, but why have Bane take over for 5 months and not blow up Gotham? I know he wanted Bruce to watch the city rip itself apart first, but that's too long of a time.

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Old 03-03-2013, 10:04 PM   #148
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My friend thinks there's a whole sequence where Alfred helps Bruce get back to Gotham.
Hmmm, I really don't think so. That would kind of disrupt Alfred coming back during the end at Bruce's funeral.

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Old 03-03-2013, 10:08 PM   #149
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My friend thinks there's a whole sequence where Alfred helps Bruce get back to Gotham.
Now THAT'S interesting.

There's nothing at all that supports it, but I like it anyway.

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Old 03-03-2013, 10:14 PM   #150
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The best support I can give to five months is that it let Talia finish her father's work; that work being to let Gotham tear itself apart while the world watches. Therefore the siege of Gotham, the truth about Dent laid bare before the citizens, and being given the means to take revenge allowed Gotham to "show its true colors" as it were. Then the bomb goes off, wiping the out the city.

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