Germans. Still Evil?

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Originally Posted by Manic

*scrolls up and down thread*

Oh, that's right. Shemtov got banned.


Although a lot of people like to joke or make broad generalizations, I think most people are aware the average German today isn't part of the Gestapo. Similarly, I don't know anyone who thinks the Japanese are still up to anything devious (well, nothing more devious than a few weird sexual kinks).

My girlfriend is Korean and believe me she definitely could say a few choice things about Japanese (not saying I agree with her, I've been to Japan many times and think the people, food and sights are great, but still... for many Chinese and Koreans, the sins of what Japan did in WWII haven't washed away, mainly because they refuse to apologize, make amends for, or even admit to those sins. And then there's the land disputes).

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

The evil Germans were the minority then and they are the minority now.

The only difference is the evil German minority of long ago were able to gain power and brainwash the public. It could happen to any country.

I think you're whitewashing history a bit. The National Socialist party and the decision to go to war was definitely supported by a majority of Germans in '39, if not later. Whether they were truly evil or just ignorant and misinformed is an entirely different can of worms. But they had to have known their Jewish neighbors were disappearing. So there was at least a degree of culpability and willful indifference.

[RustyCage]

Originally Posted by Schlosser85

You could say the same about the USA.

I'm American, and I agree with this.

We need serious change.

[MessiahDecoy123]

Originally Posted by JJJ's Ulcer

I think you're whitewashing history a bit. The National Socialist party and the decision to go to war was definitely supported by a majority of Germans in '39, if not later. Whether they were truly evil or just ignorant and misinformed is an entirely different can of worms. But they had to have known their Jewish neighbors were disappearing. So there was at least a degree of culpability and willful indifference.

The German public just went along with what the government told them was necessary. The same reason most Americans allowed the invasion of Iraq even though Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11. Don't believe that modern Americans are any more immune to media propaganda and misguided nationalism than the German public of the 1930's and 1940's.

I'm fairly certain the vast majority of the German public were completely unaware of the final solution while it was happening. They probably thought Jews were simply being deported and they allowed it because the blamed Jews for Germany's problem due to heavy propaganda or they were scared of being targeted themselves.

Like I said, most humans are guilty or susceptible to things like this. It doesn't make us evil just gullible and self-serving. Sadly it's part of the human condition and can be exploited at any time.

[MessiahDecoy123]

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_

Funny story, Hitler admired Jesse Owens and congratulated him but FDR snubbed him and wouldn't invite black Olympians to theWhite House.

Are you implying FDR was more racist than Hitler?

If Hitler succeeded at taking over the world, how long do you think it would've took for him to extend the final solution to other "inferior" races?

[RustyCage]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

The German public just went along with what the government told them was necessary. The same reason most Americans allowed the invasion of Iraq even though Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11. Don't believe that modern Americans are any more immune to media propaganda and misguided nationalism than the German public of the 1930's and 1940's.

Exactly.

Like I said, most humans are guilty or susceptible to things like this. It doesn't make us evil just gullible and self-serving. Sadly it's part of the human condition and can be exploited at any time.

We have to evolve, or that'll kill us.

[Godzilla2000]

Hmmm...people of certain Germanic roots certainly do like getting their way to the point of unhealthy obsession.

[MessiahDecoy123]

I'd like to add that Americans were fine with Japanese families being rounded up and put in camps.

What if after the war everyone discovered they were actually executed?

Would that make the American public evil?

[3rdstone]

Originally Posted by Schlosser85

You could say the same about the USA.

Perhaps, but I've yet to see zillions of movies and TV-shows since decades making fun of USA the same way Hollywood/American TV companies (which have a great impact on most of the rest of the world) have made fun of contemporary Germans/ or constantly referring to the old evil Nazi Germany empire, in which I've experienced since a little kid in the 70's.

I'm not German, but I visited Berlin in the late 80's. Damn nice and VERY friendly people, those Germans. I really need to visit Berlin again, but that of course goes for many other beautiful cities in this world..

[Ultimatehero]

Yes all germans are nazi bastards!

I'm joking of course, seriously?

Americans... slaughtered hundreds of indians, stole a whole land, and forced others to convert to Christianity after being conquered. Not only that - we celebrate this barbaric act every year at Thanksgiving!

At least the Germans are ashamed of having a horrible past.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Originally Posted by JJJ's Ulcer

Lol.. It's not arguing semantics. It's the difference between saying something that's true and saying something that's not true. Your point, which I don't necessarily disagree with, would have been better served by fact-checking a little.

It is semantics when the difference between 0 and a handful of old men with no power or influence really has no bearing what so ever on the point I was making.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Originally Posted by Ultimatehero

Yes all germans are nazi bastards!

I'm joking of course, seriously?

Americans... slaughtered hundreds of indians, stole a whole land, and forced others to convert to Christianity after being conquered. Not only that - we celebrate this barbaric act every year at Thanksgiving!

At least the Germans are ashamed of having a horrible past.

Thanksgiving had nothing to do with the slaughter of Indians.

While we may have still committed those atrocities against the Indians, that has nothing to do with what happened at Thanksgiving.

[Ultimatehero]

Okay. My bad lol. Gotta admit, it does send out mixed messages having happy pilgrims, indians, and turkeys though - its more like the pilgrims and indians trying to kill each other. But, point still stands - we (yes, I'm American) are as much to blame as other places just our atrocities are well hidden in history.

[Manic]

Show me a great nation and I'll show you a long list of atrocities it's committed.

I'm not defending anything. I'm just saying people are F'd up.

[Hobgoblin]

Here is another question, regarding the Holocaust Museum in DC:

Should the museum focus purely on the Jewish victims of the genocide or on everyone that was targeted? Some historians have suggested that the Holocaust was a purely Jewish experience and that adding gypsies, gays, slavs, Communists and others to the memorials weakens that memory of Jewish suffering.

[Doctor Evo]

Originally Posted by Ultimatehero

Yes all germans are nazi bastards!

I'm joking of course, seriously?

Americans... slaughtered hundreds of indians, stole a whole land, and forced others to convert to Christianity after being conquered. Not only that - we celebrate this barbaric act every year at Thanksgiving!

At least the Germans are ashamed of having a horrible past.

Hundreds of Native Americans? Try hundreds of thousands.

Also, Thanksgiving celebrates the first peaceful interactions between the pilgrims and the natives. Just because the white man later on destroyed the Native American population here doesn't mean that the idea of Thanksgiving is all that absurd, even in a historical context. Those later tragedies really had nothing to do with the pilgrims whatsoever.

[Schlosser85]

Originally Posted by Godzilla2000

Hmmm...people of certain Germanic roots certainly do like getting their way to the point of unhealthy obsession.

I never knew you were German.

Guten Tag!

[MessiahDecoy123]

Originally Posted by Hobgoblin

Here is another question, regarding the Holocaust Museum in DC:

Should the museum focus purely on the Jewish victims of the genocide or on everyone that was targeted? Some historians have suggested that the Holocaust was a purely Jewish experience and that adding gypsies, gays, slavs, Communists and others to the memorials weakens that memory of Jewish suffering.

I think it's fair to focus on the Jewish victims because it was hatred for Jews that facilitated the Holocaust.

But I don't see the problem with also mentioning the other victims to a lesser degree to show that Hitler probably would've extended his final solution far beyond Jews.

[Schlosser85]

Should the museum focus purely on the Jewish victims of the genocide or on everyone that was targeted? Some historians have suggested that the Holocaust was a purely Jewish experience and that adding gypsies, gays, slavs, Communists and others to the memorials weakens that memory of Jewish suffering.

It really annoys me when people act like the 6 million Jews were the ONLY victims of the Holocaust. It's like just wiping the 5 million non-Jews from history and saying they don't matter.

I don't know how many people I've encountered who didn't realize there were people besides Jews killed in the Holocaust.

Even a movie like Schindler's List, which did a laudable job making people more aware of what happened, has its coda at the end where it dedicates itself "to the six million Jews murdered".

So, what is that supposed to mean? Those other 5 million non-Jews who were murdered didn't count?

That's a staggeringly arrogant and frankly ironically racist attitude which some Jewish organizations have, acting like they have a monopoly on suffering in the Holocaust.

[Schlosser85]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

I think it's fair to focus on the Jewish victims because it was hatred for Jews that facilitated the Holocaust.

But I don't see the problem with also mentioning the other victims to a lesser degree to show that Hitler probably would've extended his final solution far beyond Jews.

There's no "probably would have" about it.

The Nazis murdered 5 million other people who were not Jews, for various reasons (Communists, gypsies, homosexuals, mentally handicapped, etc.).

The way they're so seldom mentioned is offensive.

[MessiahDecoy123]

Slaughtered "hundreds" of indians.

lmao. I must've missed that the first time.

[Schlosser85]

Yea, the American government murdered thousands if not millions of Native Americans, both directly by shooting them, or forcing them onto the Trail of Tears, or by deliberately infecting them with diseases like smallpox with contaminated blankets offered under the guise of friendship.

[MessiahDecoy123]

I can kinda see where Jews are coming from when trying to emphasize Jewish victimization from the Holocaust.

Many times I see stuff like "the Irish were slaves" to trivialize the tragedy, lasting impact and historical implications of the American slave trade.

[Figs]

Originally Posted by Hobgoblin

I ask that question facetiously. I'm one of those odd people that enjoys other cultures, especially the Germans. I like their culture, aspects of their history, the language and the countryside. Naturally, this is not a popular opinion. I respect their strength to overcome obstacles and to owe up to the atrocities committed during the Second World War. I respect that so many modern medical inventions were created in German institutions in the late 19th century that are still in use today.

So is it fair to only remember an entire nation of people purely by the barbaric acts of 12 years of insanity?

You should be thankful Shemtov was banned. He might have tried to get you banned over this thread.

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay

It is semantics when the difference between 0 and a handful of old men with no power or influence really has no bearing what so ever on the point I was making.

I really don't want to draw this out, but after doing your fact-checking research about how many Nazis are still alive, please look up 'semantics' in the dictionary.