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Old 03-03-2013, 01:04 PM   #51
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Default Re: Germans. Still Evil?

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Originally Posted by Schlosser85 View Post
There's no "probably would have" about it.

The Nazis murdered 5 million other people who were not Jews, for various reasons (Communists, gypsies, homosexuals, mentally handicapped, etc.).

The way they're so seldom mentioned is offensive.
Thank you!

I'm asking all of this because we have been discussing this in the class I am taking. In one of the readings, regarding the Holocaust museum, there was an argument that broke out among the scholars about how many people actually died (Jewish and non Jewish) and that those numbers should dictate how to proceed with the museum.

Personally I found that manipulation of numbers to be offensive and it showed when I talked about it. The woman sitting next to me, who is Jewish, then got irritated with me. The whole was just hugely irritating. No one is saying that Jews shouldnt be remembered in the museums and books about the Holocaust but it is amazingly arrogant to not include the other half of the story. To not include them is to take part in covering up their murders.

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Old 03-03-2013, 01:07 PM   #52
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Default Re: Germans. Still Evil?

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You should be thankful Shemtov was banned. He might have tried to get you banned over this thread.
I have mixed opinions on that. Yes, Shem would doubtless go berserk and say something offensive but on the other hand, I would appreciate the honest opinion of a Jewish Hype member.

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Old 03-03-2013, 01:10 PM   #53
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Default Re: Germans. Still Evil?

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I think it's fair to focus on the Jewish victims because it was hatred for Jews that facilitated the Holocaust.

But I don't see the problem with also mentioning the other victims to a lesser degree to show that Hitler probably would've extended his final solution far beyond Jews.
When I say "probably far beyond Jews" I meant blacks, Asians, Latinos, poor whites, etc. not just the established victims.

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Old 03-03-2013, 02:01 PM   #54
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Default Re: Germans. Still Evil?

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Are you implying FDR was more racist than Hitler?

If Hitler succeeded at taking over the world, how long do you think it would've took for him to extend the final solution to other "inferior" races?
Hitler didn't have a problem with black people. That's a myth. It's something that's said in America to forgive our racism. Hitler rounded up some blacks, but not because they were black (most were due to communist ties). I'm also not positive he would've taken over the whole world. There were areas he had no interest in conquering.

Hitler was very impartial to blacks, mostly because there were barely any. Jesse Owens went to Nazi Germany and said he felt very comfortable there and was treated better than in the US. Such are the double standards of racism.


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Old 03-03-2013, 02:39 PM   #55
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Nah, I'm fine the way history turned out.

I doubt a civil rights movement would've been possible under Nazi rule and I also doubt they would've stopped with Jews, the handicapped, Gypsies, and gays being wiped out. It would just be a matter of time before they turned on everyone who didn't qualify into the master race, including many whites.

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Old 03-03-2013, 02:43 PM   #56
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Default Re: Germans. Still Evil?

Many theorize that if the Nazis and the Japanese imperial army had both been triumphant, they would have eventually turned on each other because they both saw the other as inferior and a threat to their power.

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Old 03-03-2013, 03:33 PM   #57
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Default Re: Germans. Still Evil?

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Yea, the American government murdered thousands if not millions of Native Americans, both directly by shooting them, or forcing them onto the Trail of Tears, or by deliberately infecting them with diseases like smallpox with contaminated blankets offered under the guise of friendship.

It disgusts me the way the american natives were treated. Especially the infected blankets. I mean for gods sake!

And what finally got Shemtov banned? I missed that.

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Old 03-03-2013, 03:47 PM   #58
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Default Re: Germans. Still Evil?

I banned him for trolling a thread about the waiter who refused to serve the customer who made insulting comments about a special needs child, calling it "McCarthyism" (don't ask me) and a bunch of other nonsense.

We discussed it and decided his continual trolling outweighed anything positive he brought to the table.

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Old 03-03-2013, 03:54 PM   #59
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Default Re: Germans. Still Evil?

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I banned him for trolling a thread about the waiter who refused to serve the customer who made insulting comments about a special needs child, calling it "McCarthyism" (don't ask me) and a bunch of other nonsense.

We discussed it and decided his continual trolling outweighed anything positive he brought to the table.
Oh, yes, I remember his remarks in that thread. That was a new low for him.

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Old 03-03-2013, 04:05 PM   #60
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Default Re: Germans. Still Evil?

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Hitler didn't have a problem with black people. That's a myth. It's something that's said in America to forgive our racism. Hitler rounded up some blacks, but not because they were black (most were due to communist ties). I'm also not positive he would've taken over the whole world. There were areas he had no interest in conquering.

Hitler was very impartial to blacks, mostly because there were barely any. Jesse Owens went to Nazi Germany and said he felt very comfortable there and was treated better than in the US. Such are the double standards of racism.
Actually
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On the first day, Hitler shook hands only with the German victors and then left the stadium. Olympic committee officials insisted Hitler greet every medalist or none at all. Hitler opted for the latter and skipped all further medal presentations. On reports that Hitler had deliberately avoided acknowledging his victories, and had refused to shake his hand, Owens said at the time:
"Hitler had a certain time to come to the stadium and a certain time to leave." "It happened he had to leave before the victory ceremony after the 100 meters. But before he left I was on my way to a broadcast and passed near his box. He waved at me and I waved back. I think it was bad taste to criticize the 'man of the hour' in another country."
Away from the public eye, Hitler expressed his true feelings and disgust at Owens. Albert Speer, Hitler's architect and later war armaments minister, later recollected in his memoirs:
Each of the German victories, and there were a surprising number of these, made him happy, but he was highly annoyed by the series of triumphs by the marvelous colored American runner, Jesse Owens. People whose antecedents came from the jungle were primitive, Hitler said with a shrug; their physiques were stronger than those of civilized whites and hence should be excluded from future games.

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 03-03-2013, 04:11 PM   #61
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Default Re: Germans. Still Evil?

That's wrong

Words of Jesse Owens himself

Jesse Owens: “Hitler didn't snub me—it was [FDR] who snubbed me. The president didn't even send me a telegram.” - quoted in Triumph, a book about the 1936 Olympics by Jeremy Schaap

Many history books deliberately write the opposite because the world is a f***ed up place.

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Old 03-03-2013, 04:20 PM   #62
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Default Re: Germans. Still Evil?

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That's wrong

Words of Jesse Owens himself

Jesse Owens: “Hitler didn't snub me—it was [FDR] who snubbed me. The president didn't even send me a telegram.” - quoted in Triumph, a book about the 1936 Olympics by Jeremy Schaap

Many history books deliberately write the opposite because the world is a f***ed up place.
Did you even read my post? Hitler knew how to keep appearances, that last message is in Albert Speer's memoirs.

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 03-03-2013, 04:43 PM   #63
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Whatever you do,don't mention The War.

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Old 03-03-2013, 04:47 PM   #64
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Default Re: Germans. Still Evil?

The one thing that comes to mind when people mention Germany:
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Also the one time I was there in 2001 on a school trip, we saw audio cassettes... Blew our minds. I was stading infront of the rack just thinking "This is still a thing...?"

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Old 03-03-2013, 05:09 PM   #65
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Default Re: Germans. Still Evil?

While Germans may not be evil today, I can't say the same about them in the 1980's. It's hard to forgive a country that gave us "Der Kommissar" by Falco.

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Old 03-03-2013, 05:19 PM   #66
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Default Re: Germans. Still Evil?

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The one thing that comes to mind when people mention Germany:
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Also the one time I was there in 2001 on a school trip, we saw audio cassettes... Blew our minds. I was stading infront of the rack just thinking "This is still a thing...?"
Im not sure if that guy was being sincere or not, but much of his views on Germany are wrong. Beautiful place with great food. I do find it ironic a Brit critiquing another country's cuisine.

I did laugh at what he said about the language. "A type writer eating tinfoil whilst being kicked down the stairs." I love the language but that had me rolling.

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Old 03-03-2013, 05:36 PM   #67
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Well, most people didn't like the Jews (or any other minorities) in the 20th century, since most people in that era were *******s. But the Germans took European racism to its logical conclusion – with German efficiency.

It's debatable if the average German agreed with the idea of exterminating the Jews. But they had no problem with turning them into second class citizens (or actually, not citizens at all), taking their possessions, and then them simply making them disappear. It's kind of like wanting to eat the hamburger, but not wanting to see it made.

The Holocaust would have never happened without widespread support. Historians are still working out how culpable the average joe was.

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Old 03-03-2013, 05:39 PM   #68
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Default Re: Germans. Still Evil?

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You should be thankful Shemtov was banned. He might have tried to get you banned over this thread.
My first thought as well. lol

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Old 03-03-2013, 05:43 PM   #69
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Default Re: Germans. Still Evil?

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I really don't want to draw this out, but after doing your fact-checking research about how many Nazis are still alive, please look up 'semantics' in the dictionary.
"1. Linguistics The study or science of meaning in language.
3. The meaning or the interpretation of a word, sentence, or other language form:"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/semantics

My usage of the term semantics is fine.

I'm arguing the notion that Nazi's have zero power or influence in modern day Germany.

You are arguing the notion that my statement that there are 0 living Nazi's is false.

Whether there are 0 Nazi's alive or a million, that is irrelevant to the point I am making.

Thus, you are arguing semantics.

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Old 03-03-2013, 05:51 PM   #70
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Default Re: Germans. Still Evil?

You're getting into semantics over the word "semantics." If this thread collapses into a singularity, I'm blaming both of you.

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Old 03-03-2013, 06:11 PM   #71
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Default Re: Germans. Still Evil?

" was it over when the germans bombed pearl harbor!NO!... hehe sorry. I saw an animal house quote moment and couldn't resist! Hehe
Anways as to answer the question at hand NAZIS BAD!!! GERMANS GOOD! Especially around Octoberfest! Maaannn! talk about one hell of a party!! You can't condeem an entire culture because of a few thousand dip weed pyschopaths. That would be like saying ever muslim is a terrorist and that's wrong!

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Old 03-03-2013, 07:14 PM   #72
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Default Re: Germans. Still Evil?

The only evil thing about Germany these days is sourkraut....yuk

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Old 03-03-2013, 09:16 PM   #73
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Default Re: Germans. Still Evil?

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I don't think modern-day Germans are evil.

But as for Germany as a nation, its national identity, not a lot of happy thoughts.

Great cars though. Many of them with Nazi ties... but give the devil his due.
Great horses too. Probably the very best in the world in my opinion (I have owned several Hanoverians and Holsteiners as well as one Trakehner) the jumping ability in these creatures is amazing. One Holsteiner I had could easily clear 7'3".

And oh yeah, they have one of the best shepherd dogs in the world too!

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Old 03-03-2013, 09:47 PM   #74
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I really don't think you can compare what the Americans did to the Indians to what the Nazis did. There's land grabbing, pogroms, forced relocation, and forced assimilation, and then there's what the Germans did. Building a network of industrial killing factories to murder, exploit and torture millions (including children). In the 20th century no less (for you moral relativists out there).

Americans (and other Europeans in the New World) usually did what they did out of greed, for land and resources. True Americans hated the Indians, but they never tried to outright exterminate them. Even Indian massacres were controversial in their day.

Now Southerners and black people, that might have headed into Nazi territory, if the rest of the country hadn't interfered.

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Old 03-03-2013, 09:49 PM   #75
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Americans did more than the indians though, as someone else noted we held concentration camps as well, but that was skimmed over in school. Basically our text books in America are written how the government wants us to see things. For example, think about how different it is in our text books compared to those probably of the native americans and japanese and african americans. We aren't exactly the great heroes in the past we were brought up to believe we were. But, for American schools -- since it's being taught in America -- that's what many youth are led to believe until college for some people are exploring beyond the textbook. Which that alone says a lot about the motivations of the American school system in that being ignored for the large part.

It's the same thing basically for Christianity and how many people don't know what's being hidden by that. The number of people who were converted or killed. The true death count of the holy wars. That we don't know when Jesus was born, died, or raised from the dead and that those dates we stole from pagan holidays in our conversion efforts by throwing them a bone to convert.

When you're a power house, or growing up with a connection to one, you're never told the whole story or at least not the completely truthful one.

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