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Old 05-27-2014, 04:51 AM   #1
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Default The JFK thread (major spoilers)

Hi everyone.

Time to talk about the major revelation that JFK was a mutant. What did everyone think of this?

Before the movie came out I heard people saying that magneto knocking off JFK was offensive so I can't wait to hear what they thought about magnetos revelation about him

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Old 05-27-2014, 04:57 AM   #2
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Default Re: The JFK thread (major spoilers)

I was bothered by how quickly Xavier accepted that as fact. Could well have been Magneto making stuff up to justify his actions

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Old 05-27-2014, 05:04 AM   #3
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Default Re: The JFK thread (major spoilers)

I considered that as well although magneto is not frequently a liar

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Old 05-27-2014, 09:18 AM   #4
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Default Re: The JFK thread (major spoilers)

I liked it. I found it a bit annoying because they accept the "curved" bullet bs. There was no need for any "magic" for the bullet to do what it did.

Every single time they try and show how one bullet could not have done what it did, they line JFK and Connally up both vertically and horizontally; In reality, JFK was higher up, and leaning against his door, while Connally was centered in his chair, and turning as the bullet struck them:



Any who, arguably, in the X-Men movie universe, the bullet took a slightly different path, and DID curve. The inaccuracies perpetuated around the Kennedy assassination are some my pet peeves. Rant ended.

As for Kennedy being a Mutant, I don't mind, I like it. I like that they made Magneto NOT guilty of killing him, but rather trying to save him.
He seemed like an odd target for Eric, but then again, maybe he had a different view on Kennedy after the Gulf incident, or perhaps Kennedy could have been involved with sending Mutants to Vietnam, or to Trask.
Obviously neither of these were the case, just speculation on why, if Eric HAD killed Kennedy, and he (Kennedy) was NOT a Mutant, he would have killed him.

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Old 05-27-2014, 09:27 AM   #5
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Default Re: The JFK thread (major spoilers)

Magneto could've lied. The way he managed to curve the bullet to hit Mystique even when severely distracted, he might've actually killed JFK. Then again, future movies probably aren't going to touch the subject again so it's better to not overthink this.

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Old 05-27-2014, 09:33 AM   #6
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Default Re: The JFK thread (major spoilers)

I like the fact the writers believe his power would have been able to control people's will ala Silverfox is quite clever.

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Old 05-27-2014, 09:39 AM   #7
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Default Re: The JFK thread (major spoilers)

I thought JFK's power would involve seducing woman since he was quite the ladies man you know?

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Old 05-27-2014, 09:45 AM   #8
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Default Re: The JFK thread (major spoilers)

Magneto wouldn't lie about a dead mutant.

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Old 05-27-2014, 09:46 AM   #9
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Default Re: The JFK thread (major spoilers)

I liked it. I love how the X-Men take real world issues and real people that have happened in the past like Cuba Missile, Vietnam War, JFK, Nixon and put a mutant spin on it. No other comic book franchise feels as realistic to me because they keep it grounded in reality. And I love that JFK's assasination would be considered such a big deal to both humans and mutants in the X-Men universe. I wonder if the CIA was behind the killing of the president as they and the government knew about mutants at that point.

One of my friends turned to me and was like really they are saying that. Come on? And i'm like you are watching a movie that is about people with powers and you find that the most hardest thing to believe/ridiculous. And she was like yeah you're right.

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Old 05-27-2014, 11:17 AM   #10
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Default Re: The JFK thread (major spoilers)

He wouldn't try and save a human unless they were insanely worth saving to him. The leader of the free world being a mutant pretty much had Magneto like, "**** this ****."

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Old 05-27-2014, 11:23 AM   #11
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Default Re: The JFK thread (major spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackFox View Post
I like the fact the writers believe his power would have been able to control people's will ala Silverfox is quite clever.
I liked that too.

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Old 05-27-2014, 12:05 PM   #12
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Default Re: The JFK thread (major spoilers)

I liked the JFK conspiracy in the film. Sure it wasn't crucial to the plot and some may say that it wasn't necessary, but I thought it added a little realism to the film and it was part of the marketing of DOFP with the Bent Bullet website which I thought was clever.

I also liked that some of the action scenes were filmed in a faux Super 8 70's film stock which once again added a style and realism to the film.

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Old 05-27-2014, 12:31 PM   #13
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Default Re: The JFK thread (major spoilers)

I liked it at first, hated Magneto's explanation.

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Old 05-28-2014, 02:51 PM   #14
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Default Re: The JFK thread (major spoilers)

The first think I thought was "Does this mean Bobby was a Mutant too?"

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Old 06-12-2014, 10:51 AM   #15
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Default Re: The JFK thread (major spoilers)

On The Bent Bullet website:

Under The Trial of Magneto-Erik Lehnsherr: "I did not shoot your president...but I know who did, and you'll never find her. She has a way of hiding in plain sight."

Under Magneto's Last Words-Erik: "Whoever said that was Oswald in the warehouse?" "Whoever said the killer was a man?"

Earlier in the article, Oswald has no idea why he's being arrested that fateful day. Statements from his wife claim he was a different person in the weeks leading up to the assassination.

Considering Erik's telling Charles he didn't kill JFK, because he was a mutant, but that he was trying to save him from anti-mutant operatives; isn't that a direct retcon of DOFP's own viral marketing campaign, which has brilliantly woven little fill-in details into the events before, during and after DOFP?

All signs on the website point to Raven being the President's assassin. It might at first seem like a tiny continuity error. But if the President was Raven's first kill- not Trask-wouldn't that hold alot more weight in the actual film? Especially between Charles, Erik, and Hank. They may have figured her beyond saving; Erik would've saw her as killing one of her own. Even if he thought Raven didn't know JFK was a mutant when she assassinated him, wouldn't he bring that up to her during their conversations in DOFP?

Erik could be lying to Charles. He's done that before. To me, that would be the easy way out, and another example of the lack of attention to details by the filmmakers. Nevermind continuity problems amidst the X-saga; this is happening in ONE movie!

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Old 06-12-2014, 12:21 PM   #16
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Default Re: The JFK thread (major spoilers)

^Good point, I didn't think of that. I recently went on that Bent Bullet site again and am confused who exactly killed the president, was it Oswald, was it Raven, was it one of Trask's men etc.

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Old 06-12-2014, 12:34 PM   #17
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Default Re: The JFK thread (major spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by li mui bai View Post
On The Bent Bullet website:

Under The Trial of Magneto-Erik Lehnsherr: "I did not shoot your president...but I know who did, and you'll never find her. She has a way of hiding in plain sight."

Under Magneto's Last Words-Erik: "Whoever said that was Oswald in the warehouse?" "Whoever said the killer was a man?"

Earlier in the article, Oswald has no idea why he's being arrested that fateful day. Statements from his wife claim he was a different person in the weeks leading up to the assassination.

Considering Erik's telling Charles he didn't kill JFK, because he was a mutant, but that he was trying to save him from anti-mutant operatives; isn't that a direct retcon of DOFP's own viral marketing campaign, which has brilliantly woven little fill-in details into the events before, during and after DOFP?

All signs on the website point to Raven being the President's assassin. It might at first seem like a tiny continuity error. But if the President was Raven's first kill- not Trask-wouldn't that hold alot more weight in the actual film? Especially between Charles, Erik, and Hank. They may have figured her beyond saving; Erik would've saw her as killing one of her own. Even if he thought Raven didn't know JFK was a mutant when she assassinated him, wouldn't he bring that up to her during their conversations in DOFP?

Erik could be lying to Charles. He's done that before. To me, that would be the easy way out, and another example of the lack of attention to details by the filmmakers. Nevermind continuity problems amidst the X-saga; this is happening in ONE movie!
Who says it was Mystique? Sure Erik's words makes us think it's her, but it could've easily been Emma Frost, still hellbent on her anti-human hate train. Though, you would think she, being a telepath, would've known that...

On the subject of the whole JFK thing, I actually called that being a plot device over a year ago, though I thought at the time that he was the one they needed to save rather than Trask. It was just too good of an opportunity to pass up: Magneto bending the "magic bullet" to kill the leader of the human free world? How on Earth could he resist?

Though, JFK being a mutant was a nice surprise, as was Magneto trying to save him. I don't see any reason at all to think Erik would've lied about that just to butter up to Charles. Erik is many things, chief among them being the self-proclaimed savior of mutants. He would not stoop to labeling an inferior being (human) as one of his own just to deceive Charles, his best friend whom he has directly hurt.

A lot of people got upset over this plot detail, and I'm not sure why. Was it tragic? Of course. A conspiracy? Almost certainly. Was this an X-Men film? Yes. Why not bring these things together? "Respect for the family"? I'd say that family has had more disrespect thrown at them over the last half-century then most others, and a passing mention in a clearly fictionalized film is the least of their concerns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speno94 View Post
^Good point, I didn't think of that. I recently went on that Bent Bullet site again and am confused who exactly killed the president, was it Oswald, was it Raven, was it one of Trask's men etc.
Didn't Erik say, "I tried to stop it, but there were too many of them..."

I think a blending of real life conspiracy theory X-film history is the answer here. The government, by and large, clearly has an issue with mutants since they intervened at the end of the Cuban Missile Crisis. JFK was an issue for the military industrial complex/big oil/communists/pick your favorite real-life conspiracy. JFK being a mutant? If word of such thing got out (as was likely given the Intelligence Community, wire tapping, JFK's...ahem...way with women), even on a small scale, the Human factor in the government would've wanted to make damn sure he was taken out, properly, with no mistakes.

Imagine Erik catching wind of this, somehow, via Emma, Azazel, Mystique, whatever, and he stands there in Dealey Plaza, diverting bullet after bullet (like in the end of First Class), trying his best to save the best hope for the free world AND mutant kind, only to fail, and then be blamed for it? It's no wonder he was as angry as Charles was, locked away for a crime he didn't commit, blamed for the very thing he trying to stop, and he seized the first opportunity to "get even" with the very people who damned him in the first place.

If he was lying to Charles, it would make his attack against Nixon very troublesome. Why try to kill ANOTHER President, knowing the next one will be put in? He is a tactile genius, remember? "Killing one man isn't enough."

BUT, he had the vast majority of US government at his mercy, ready to set things straight, killing the men that killed his best hope for peace.


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Old 06-12-2014, 12:56 PM   #18
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Default Re: The JFK thread (major spoilers)

Considering how the DOFP viral marketing has weaved in a bunch of details to correlate with the events of the film (i.e. Hank's death after the X3 events -via 25moments- correlating to young Hank's question to Logan about surviving the future), throwing nods left & right like what I mentioned in my last post, it seems pretty clear Mystique was the assassin.

Emma - just say she didn't pick up on JFK's mutancy - could've made Oswald and/or anyone else pull that trigger. The "hiding in plain sight" mention, however, just adds to the Mystique nod; Emma can always hide in plain sight because she doesn't physically scream "mutant." Mystique, however...

I agree with you about JFK being a mutant - it was a nice surprise, and I heard a few ahhhs throughout the audience. I liked it alot, and don't find that to be insensitive. What I found to be lacking class was the release of the Bent Bullet website a day or so after the 50th anniv. commemoration of JFK's death. That was kinda insensitive IMO.

And I don't think Erik would lie either. Not to a fellow mutant, especially Charles. Definitely with you on that one.

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Old 06-12-2014, 01:02 PM   #19
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Default Re: The JFK thread (major spoilers)

Alright, I'll level with you on the timing of the release of Bent Bullet, but what better time to do such a thing? It's free press all the way around: people looking to memorialize JFK hear about an upcoming movie they may not have known about before hand, and the movie gets to put the word out on a significant event in our recent history that is often glossed over way too easily, without many questions being asked.

Emma...yeah ok, I got nothin'. lol

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Old 06-12-2014, 06:05 PM   #20
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Default Re: The JFK thread (major spoilers)

I thought Magneto's line was more in the sense that JFK was a dreamer, someone who rocked the boat with his ideas like Xavier and Magneto. Not that he was a mutant. But I suppose it goes either way.

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Old 06-12-2014, 06:23 PM   #21
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Default Re: The JFK thread (major spoilers)

Worst part of the movie.

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Old 06-12-2014, 09:17 PM   #22
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Default Re: The JFK thread (major spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by li mui bai View Post
Considering how the DOFP viral marketing has weaved in a bunch of details to correlate with the events of the film (i.e. Hank's death after the X3 events -via 25moments- correlating to young Hank's question to Logan about surviving the future), throwing nods left & right like what I mentioned in my last post, it seems pretty clear Mystique was the assassin.
It wasn't her. The movie explicitly stated that Trask would have been her first kill.

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Old 06-12-2014, 11:31 PM   #23
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^You are correct. My whole point was why would the viral site emphasize something that pretty much contradicts the explicit statement by Erik in the film concerning the JFK assassin(s)? Especially since it has been so good at keeping with the continuity of not only the film it's promoting, but many of the other X-films as well.

I'd be curious to know how much input the film makers of DOFP have in the viral marketing content, before they turn the viral guys and gals loose to run with what details were provided. It seems as if a "big board of continuity" was put up in an office and closely monitored/analyzed to eliminate any potential conflicts in details between marketing and film. It looks to me like they all missed a pretty big detail on that board.

Yes, the assassin Erik describes in the article - while sounding like Raven- could be any mutant-hating sharpshooter. The article really tries, however, to highlight the possibility of a female, lone wolf assassin who can hide with the best of 'em (i.e. shape shift). The actual film spends time to describe Raven as the same thing, just starting with Trask as the first kill.

I appreciate all the replies and comments, agree or disagree, to my original post. DOFP is a really good film and gets so much right. I don't often find myself talking about movies weeks after they release. Most kinda come and go. As an X-Men fan (my favorite comics, cartoon ('92 series), and superhero movies) I'm glad the films continue to spark conversation.

I just happen to be a stickler for movie continuity. I find myself asking "how did you miss that?" Quick example: if I was Marc Forster writing notes on my Quantum of Solace script (all 8 pages of it): seeing that the opening scene takes place only hours after the prior film; I don't care WHO was chosen as Bond's tailor and hair stylist for the majority of the movie...I would make sure Bond and the guy in his trunk had on the same EXACT suits as Casino Royale; and Bond would've had the SAME haircut as well.

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Old 06-13-2014, 12:13 AM   #24
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Default Re: The JFK thread (major spoilers)

JFK being a mutant and Magneto's sentiments toward him kind of adds some significance and credence to his plot in the first x-men movie (turning the worlds leaders into mutants)

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Old 06-13-2014, 04:38 AM   #25
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Default Re: The JFK thread (major spoilers)

When Xavier first told Wolverine and Magneto said that JFK was a mutant I was like "Are they being serious?" Probably the worst part of the plot and film.

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