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Old 03-09-2013, 12:58 AM   #76
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 6

The problem with Cyborg is that he's a goofy second string character. Not that I think he's "goofy" but for this story you are trying to bring these iconic images to life.

All the Justice League characters are characters and archetypes that have defined comics for decades. Cyborg didn't show up until the 1980's.

At least with John Stewart you have the history and iconography of Green Lantern. You have the shield and symbol of the Green Lantern. That's important for material like this. Green Lantern is an iconic image and character. So now you have John Stewart a solid character who is a Green Lantern to let him fill that role as well as giving diversity to the team as well.

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Old 03-09-2013, 02:17 AM   #77
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 6

And he's been around since the 70's. There's been popular versions of the League with him in it over the last decade, and as ive said in the past, he was created by one of the greats who created other iconic DC characters that have run through TDK trilogy. There's a history there with John Stewart sometimes just as much as Hal Jordan, even though he came later on. There was a point before the last GL movie when John was way more popular than Hal and looked at as the Green Lantern by fans.

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Old 03-09-2013, 03:45 AM   #78
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 6

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And he's been around since the 70's. There's been popular versions of the League with him in it over the last decade, and as ive said in the past, he was created by one of the greats who created other iconic DC characters that have run through TDK trilogy. There's a history there with John Stewart sometimes just as much as Hal Jordan, even though he came later on. There was a point before the last GL movie when John was way more popular than Hal and looked at as the Green Lantern by fans.
You could even argue that John is still more popular as the Justice League cartoon was huge and the GL movie was a flop.

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Old 03-09-2013, 07:04 AM   #79
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 6

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That's all well and good except you're investing like 900 million dollars of someone elses money on an unproven franchise at that point, at minimum.

I can't help but feel that some people can't grasp a basic sense of realism here.
I get what you're saying. WB/DC movies have been at best a hit and miss. They still have not found the right formula for these movies unlike Marvel has. It will all come to a turning point once MOS arrives. The way they're reporting how good MOS is, if the reports are accurate, then they may have found this formula. A formula that includes Nolan and Goyer. And to an extent Snyder. If El Mayimbe's scoop is indeed factual, and not just his connecting the dots and claiming it as the actual situation at WB, then I have no doubt JL will go ahead. They are going from strength to strength. And if Nolan and gang do get locked by WB they will go ahead with JL.

The idea for the trilogy for JL is a way for WB to forego what Marvel has done with Thor, Iron Man and Captain America. That's five movies even before The Avengers. And if reports are true that MOS is the start of the DCU cinematic universe, then that's only one movie laying out the groundwork. A trilogy will have the luxury of time in fleshing out the characters. And also mostly I want it!


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Old 03-09-2013, 08:05 AM   #80
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Right, but there are many levels of producers and they serve many different roles. For instance, Jon Peters is a producer on Man Of Steel and he was a producer on Returns. There is a difference between that, something in the middle, and being in charge of the entire DC universe.
This is true, but what I am saying is that just because Christopher Nolan is producing "Man of Steel" right now and will be producing "Interstellar", it doesn't mean that he wouldn't be producing a film Like Justice League at the same time. Right now, his name is on MoS, "Transcendence", and (just recently) "Interstellar". That's three projects right now. Come the 2014 time frame it could be the same.

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Old 03-09-2013, 10:13 AM   #81
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 6

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I get what you're saying. WB/DC movies have been at best a hit and miss. They still have not found the right formula for these movies unlike Marvel has. It will all come to a turning point once MOS arrives. The way they're reporting how good MOS is, if the reports are accurate, then they may have found this formula. A formula that includes Nolan and Goyer. And to an extent Snyder. If El Mayimbe's scoop is indeed factual, and not just his connecting the dots and claiming it as the actual situation at WB, then I have no doubt JL will go ahead. They are going from strength to strength. And if Nolan and gang do get locked by WB they will go ahead with JL.

The idea for the trilogy for JL is a way for WB to forego what Marvel has done with Thor, Iron Man and Captain America. That's five movies even before The Avengers. And if reports are true that MOS is the start of the DCU cinematic universe, then that's only one movie laying out the groundwork. A trilogy will have the luxury of time in fleshing out the characters. And also mostly I want it!

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Old 03-09-2013, 10:19 AM   #82
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 6

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I get what you're saying. WB/DC movies have been at best a hit and miss. They still have not found the right formula for these movies unlike Marvel has. It will all come to a turning point once MOS arrives. The way they're reporting how good MOS is, if the reports are accurate, then they may have found this formula. A formula that includes Nolan and Goyer. And to an extent Snyder. If El Mayimbe's scoop is indeed factual, and not just his connecting the dots and claiming it as the actual situation at WB, then I have no doubt JL will go ahead. They are going from strength to strength. And if Nolan and gang do get locked by WB they will go ahead with JL.

The idea for the trilogy for JL is a way for WB to forego what Marvel has done with Thor, Iron Man and Captain America. That's five movies even before The Avengers. And if reports are true that MOS is the start of the DCU cinematic universe, then that's only one movie laying out the groundwork. A trilogy will have the luxury of time in fleshing out the characters. And also mostly I want it!
I am a bigger DC guy then Marvel and after what Marvel did with the Avengers DC needs up there game and put out either a World's Finest or JL movie they don't need to rush it but they definitely need to have Nolan as Producer Bale back as Batman Goyer and Jonathan Nolan writing the script.

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Old 03-09-2013, 10:37 AM   #83
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Don't like the Justice League trilogy idea. I don't think it's wise trying to plan out a trilogy when they're having a hard time planning 1 film. Take it one film at a time, if we only end up with a one-off that's fine by me. 2 movies? OK. More spin-offs, no spin-offs...they can't be "nuking the fridge" here.

I'm not even sure if I want to see 3 Justice League movies to be honest. 3 Avengers movies sounds like overkill unless they're doing something drastic like bringing Spider-Man on board or making Hulk into the antagonist.

A potential two Justice League's sound better to me.

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Old 03-09-2013, 12:16 PM   #84
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I'd like to see a first film that establishes the idea of the League and then a second two-part film against Darkseid with a Final Crisis/Rock of Ages type situation going on.

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Old 03-09-2013, 12:17 PM   #85
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 6

Another star trek movie, another blue print for how green lantern should have moved forward(replace the badguy with sinestro)

I would literally take Chris Pine in the role of Captain Kirk, give him a green ring and stick him in the JLA movie and that would be that.

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Old 03-09-2013, 12:33 PM   #86
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 6

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A potential two Justice League's sound better to me.
I think that one World's Finest film, followed by two Justice League films, would be the ideal way to go.

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Old 03-09-2013, 01:01 PM   #87
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I think that one World's Finest film, followed by two Justice League films, would be the ideal way to go.
That would be better but I wouldn't plan it out that way. I would concentrate on the WF movie and add some things that could lead to a Justice League, then take it from there. The whole mapping out 3 team-up films is not the way to go. What happens is ur attention is never completely on the one project ur doing. And that's not good. You're bound to leave too much for sequels instead of putting it all on the table for that one movie. When the movie is out and they see a really good response, THAT is when you start thinking about the sequel.

Let Marvel map out their future in 3's and 4's. Not everyone needs a solo movie before JL at DC. If Avengers wants to go to a third or fourth flick and die out...let them. I personally don't want to see that here.

Quality over Quantity. Something Marvel doesn't seem to understand. Look at Iron Man 2. I wasn't impressed with Captain America or The Incredible Hulk either....and look at how many more Cap movies might come out. A 3rd Avengers may be monotonous if Whedon isn't directing and/or doesn't give the fans something fresh with the story & lineup. I certainly don't need to see too many Justice Leagues if they're only battling aliens every time. You don't make superhero sequels for the sake of it, you do it because you have a different story to tell.

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Old 03-09-2013, 01:22 PM   #88
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 6

Look at Green Lantern (2011). Look at Jonah Hex (2010). It's not by a "quality over quantity" philosophy we are seeing less of these movies from Warner Bros.

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Old 03-09-2013, 01:31 PM   #89
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Quality over Quantity. Something Marvel doesn't seem to understand.
The only basis you have over this statement, is that of the Batman movies. Other than that, WB/DC hasn't shown that much quality over anything. Marvel at least had the foresight to see the potential for everything they have produced. You may not like some of the sequels or movies in the Marvel Universe, but at least the sequels actually make sense overall, and the GA has shown enough support in order to finance the sequels/team-ups. Some of you guys in here are already talking about shoehorning in TDKT in a JL/WF movie, just to have Bale back, when it was told to us clearly from Nolan and the marketing that it was the end of Nolan's Batman Universe. That, in and of itself, doesn't sound like "quality story telling" to me, it just sounds like a cash grab to ride to coattails of what The Avengers have stirred up with the GA. If they wanted quality, they wouldn't even be thinking of incorporating TDKT into this at all.

Side note: I still don't believe the rumors of Bale being back.

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Old 03-09-2013, 01:50 PM   #90
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The only basis you have over this statement, is that of the Batman movies. Other than that, WB/DC hasn't shown that much quality over anything. Marvel at least had the foresight to see the potential for everything they have produced. You may not like some of the sequels or movies in the Marvel Universe, but at least the sequels actually make sense overall, and the GA has shown enough support in order to finance the sequels/team-ups. Some of you guys in here are already talking about shoehorning in TDKT in a JL/WF movie, just to have Bale back, when it was told to us clearly from Nolan and the marketing that it was the end of Nolan's Batman Universe. That, in and of itself, doesn't sound like "quality story telling" to me, it just sounds like a cash grab to ride to coattails of what The Avengers have stirred up with the GA. If they wanted quality, they wouldn't even be thinking of incorporating TDKT into this at all.

Side note: I still don't believe the rumors of Bale being back.
Again, you guys aren't Nolan so stop trying to act like you are. Only he gets to say if there's a new story to tell or not. Your argument about "Nolan said this was over" is useless because he's been saying this kind of thing at the end of every Batman movie. Everything has to do with money but it's also about the story with Nolan. If he can't find a way to do it justice Bale won't be coming back anyway. You are not the writer and neither am I. Some people feel like the 8 year gap & retirement from Rises was shoehorned into the movie from TDK's ending, but who cares what those people think because it still made sense, it made a lot of money and they're not the creator. And Chris didn't even want to return after TDK but he did it because he had a different story to tell that people didn't expect and he was getting a lot of cash at the end of the day. Plus it made WB more money.

Travesty, you say the only basis of my argument is TDKT. You're absolutely right. So what's your point?? I never said WB is known for "quality over quantity" did I...i'm saying that the future of the DCU and Justice League should be about quality over quantity. Planning a JL trilogy is not the way to go. Plan the MOS sequel and start hiring writers to come up with a solid Wonder Woman script or Flash script..sure. But take the team-up idea one film at a time. Put all that you have into the first, then worry about the rest.

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Old 03-09-2013, 02:02 PM   #91
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 6

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Again, you guys aren't Nolan so stop trying to act like you are. Only he gets to say if there's a new story to tell or not. Your argument about "Nolan said this was over" is useless because he's been saying this kind of thing at the end of every Batman movie. Everything has to do with money but it's also about the story with Nolan. If he can't find a way to do it justice Bale won't be coming back anyway. You are not the writer and neither am I. Some people feel like the 8 year gap & retirement from Rises was shoehorned into the movie from TDK's ending, but who cares what those people think because it still made sense, it made a lot of money and they're not the creator. And Chris didn't even want to return after TDK but he did it because he had a different story to tell that people didn't expect and he was getting a lot of cash at the end of the day. Plus it made WB more money.

Travesty, you say the only basis of my argument is TDKT. You're absolutely right. So what's your point?? I never said WB is known for "quality over quantity" did I...i'm saying that the future of the DCU and Justice League should be about quality over quantity. Planning a JL trilogy is not the way to go. Plan the MOS sequel and start hiring writers to come up with a solid Wonder Woman script or Flash script..sure. But take the team-up idea one film at a time. Put all that you have into the first, then worry about the rest.
In the end we will find out and who know's we could find out in MOS if Bale is in there for a brief cameo.

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Old 03-09-2013, 02:14 PM   #92
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In the end we will find out and who know's we could find out in MOS if Bale is in there for a brief cameo.
Yeah for sure.

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Old 03-09-2013, 02:38 PM   #93
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Another star trek movie, another blue print for how green lantern should have moved forward(replace the badguy with sinestro)

I would literally take Chris Pine in the role of Captain Kirk, give him a green ring and stick him in the JLA movie and that would be that.
Agreed.

What a shame. Didn't gl have a bigger budget?

Such crappy direction. Music, art direction was all over the place. I suppose gl is harder to do though.

It's a shame, because they probably thought they struck gold by getting Campbell

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Old 03-09-2013, 02:53 PM   #94
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Agreed.

What a shame. Didn't gl have a bigger budget?

Such crappy direction. Music, art direction was all over the place. I suppose gl is harder to do though.

It's a shame, because they probably thought they struck gold by getting Campbell
They rushed into GL too fast but Spiderman 3 is right up there with GL. On a brighter note from GL Reynolds found his future Blake Lively.

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Old 03-09-2013, 03:00 PM   #95
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That would be better but I wouldn't plan it out that way. I would concentrate on the WF movie and add some things that could lead to a Justice League, then take it from there. The whole mapping out 3 team-up films is not the way to go. What happens is ur attention is never completely on the one project ur doing. And that's not good. You're bound to leave too much for sequels instead of putting it all on the table for that one movie. When the movie is out and they see a really good response, THAT is when you start thinking about the sequel.

Let Marvel map out their future in 3's and 4's. Not everyone needs a solo movie before JL at DC. If Avengers wants to go to a third or fourth flick and die out...let them. I personally don't want to see that here.

Quality over Quantity. Something Marvel doesn't seem to understand. Look at Iron Man 2. I wasn't impressed with Captain America or The Incredible Hulk either....and look at how many more Cap movies might come out. A 3rd Avengers may be monotonous if Whedon isn't directing and/or doesn't give the fans something fresh with the story & lineup. I certainly don't need to see too many Justice Leagues if they're only battling aliens every time. You don't make superhero sequels for the sake of it, you do it because you have a different story to tell.
Quality over quantity is exactly why they should have a rebooted Batman for JL. Even if you were to argue that Nolan's Batman can be used in JL, I don't think anyone would argue that he is the best version of Batman you can use for JL. Why not have a new Batman that is the Bat-God detective to begin with instead of trying to come up with ways on how to bring the physically damaged and not-exactly-the-most-tactical 40 year old Batman out of retirement? Whether you guys want to admit it or not, a new version of Batman would give JL a lot more potential from a story and critical point of view and we know this from the comics.

It doesn't matter how long it takes to get a Batman reboot off the ground and do it justice. WB should take their time with that instead of using a Batman version that is clearly not the best version of Batman to use for JL. And once again, can you probably come up with some BS way to fit Nolan's Batman in? Probably you can. But is it the best choice for JL? No. If WB really cares about putting full effort into their movies and making the best movie possible, they would postpone JL and release a rebooted Batman first with the rebooted Batman then appearing in JL. But no, they want to release a JL movie in the next few years just to capitalize off the current Avengers hype.

And no, the argument that Nolan said it was over is not useless. Nolan never at any point said the same thing after every Batman movie. He said he wasn't sure whether or not he wanted to come back after he did BB and then said the same thing about TDK. Saying he isn't sure if he has a new story to tell =/= His version of Batman would've been over. It just means that someone else that had a story would've had to step in. However, with the release of TDKR, Nolan specifically said that Bruce's journey was over. Said it himself and the movie itself was marketed on this as well. That's where the difference lies.

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Old 03-09-2013, 03:05 PM   #96
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Quality over quantity is exactly why they should have a rebooted Batman for JL. Even if you were to argue that Nolan's Batman can be used in JL, I don't think anyone would argue that he is the best version of Batman you can use for JL. Why not have a new Batman that is the Bat-God detective to begin with instead of trying to come up with ways on how to bring the physically damaged and not-exactly-the-most-tactical 40 year old Batman out of retirement? Whether you guys want to admit it or not, a new version of Batman would give JL a lot more potential from a story and critical point of view and we know this from the comics.

It doesn't matter how long it takes to get a Batman reboot off the ground and do it justice. WB should take their time with that instead of using a Batman version that is clearly not the best version of Batman to use for JL. And once again, can you probably come up with some BS way to fit Nolan's Batman in? Probably you can. But is it the best choice for JL? No. If WB really cares about putting full effort into their movies and making the best movie possible, they would postpone JL and release a rebooted Batman first with the rebooted Batman then appearing in JL. But no, they want to release a JL movie in the next few years just to capitalize off the current Avengers hype.

And no, the argument that Nolan said it was over is not useless. Nolan never at any point said the same thing after every Batman movie. He said he wasn't sure whether or not he wanted to come back after he did BB and then said the same thing about TDK. Saying he isn't sure if he has a new story to tell =/= His version of Batman would've been over. It just means that someone else that had a story would've had to step in. However, with the release of TDKR, Nolan specifically said that Bruce's journey was over. Said it himself and the movie itself was marketed on this as well. That's where the difference lies.
I don't mind a reboot either unless Nolan is Producer. The thing is Nolan pays attention to detail.

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Old 03-09-2013, 03:27 PM   #97
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 6

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Quality over quantity is exactly why they should have a rebooted Batman for JL. Even if you were to argue that Nolan's Batman can be used in JL, I don't think anyone would argue that he is the best version of Batman you can use for JL. Why not have a new Batman that is the Bat-God detective to begin with instead of trying to come up with ways on how to bring the physically damaged and not-exactly-the-most-tactical 40 year old Batman out of retirement? Whether you guys want to admit it or not, a new version of Batman would give JL a lot more potential from a story and critical point of view and we know this from the comics.
I think for a Justice League film, yes, a Bat-"God" might make more sense.

However, in a Batman/Superman movie (which is what this Bale/Nolan thing is heavily rumored to be) I think you want to play up Bruce's humanity as much as possible. I would want there to be that stark contrast between the two. The pinnacle of human will power against all odds, juxtaposed with a god with basically unlimited power. Everything that Bruce worked and trained his entire life for, Clark was born with. I want to see a MAN mixing it up with a god, not a Bat-God and a god. To me that's where the potential of the story lies.

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Old 03-09-2013, 03:28 PM   #98
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Your argument about "Nolan said this was over" is useless because he's been saying this kind of thing at the end of every Batman movie.
Having Nolan say he may not do a second or a third movie is not the same as saying "this is the end to my story", and not only that, but the way the movie ended is pretty evident as it is.

Edit: Shikamaru beat me to it.

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Old 03-09-2013, 04:04 PM   #99
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I don't play the games but I hear the batman featured in the Arkham city games is more inline with the comicbook. If so more and more people are becoming familiar with the short comings of the previous direction(especially with those tight cut scene trailers).

I suppose at this point it comes down to what's more important to WB. For example say marvel didn't present Tony Stark as the Engineering god he is presently(and from the start). Let's say they had dumbed him down to "nolans" real world level. Would avengers stand have made more money if they just kept RDJ on star power and continuity alone or replaced him and inserted an actor they could then mold into the Stark God.
What was more crucial to Avengers success?
Luckily Marvel actually got Stark right from the start.
(Gruff, seasoned, Cap not so much)

Here's something of note, they replaced and fixed hulk for avengers to great success.

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Old 03-09-2013, 04:13 PM   #100
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Having Nolan say he may not do a second or a third movie is not the same as saying "this is the end to my story", and not only that, but the way the movie ended is pretty evident as it is.

Edit: Shikamaru beat me to it.

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