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Old 03-09-2013, 11:39 PM   #26
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

The most important lesson from this show is that there is solid DC animated life beyond Bruce Timm. If anything's he's just been the one to step up all these years.

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Old 03-09-2013, 11:47 PM   #27
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

Sarcastic Fan:
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We're never going to see Vandal and Klarion again, are we?

Vandal Savage: Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the War World. Its five-year mission: to conquer, strange new worlds, to seek out new life and **** it up, to boldly eviscerate what no man has eviscerated before.

Klarion: Vandal, Cartoon Network cancelled us.

Vandal Savage: Then it shall be our continuing mission.

Klarion: We really should have brought Queen Bee.
Well, Vandal can always take up MMA fights if THAT doesn't work out. He can't do much worse than Picard.

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Old 03-10-2013, 04:29 AM   #28
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Yeah I think youre taking this way left field. Bottom line Black Manta should have been a better fighter...he practically got beaten way too easy by everyone he fought.
Show me one solid evidence where Black Manta should have been a better fighter, where was this established in the show? Tell me.
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All that other stuff youre bringing up is irrelevant and beside the point. My point is they could and should have made him a better fighter.
So first you claim he is a better fighter, now you're telling how the writers and creative team should have done their job regarding the character, because it didn't match the way you and only you saw the character.

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I doubt it was just Clarion that beat three formidable heroes. I'm sure Vandal had a hand. You just don't become leader of the Light on smarts alone. If that were the case than the other "smarter" villains would constantly try to overthrow him. Vandal is definitely more powerful than we were shown, too bad we will never see how powerful.
Then why are Lex Luthor, Queen Bee, Ras' al Ghul and Vanda Savage the top dogs alongside the Brain? Why aren't Monsier Allah, Deathstroke, Sportsmaster in charge?

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Old 03-10-2013, 10:41 AM   #29
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Show me one solid evidence where Black Manta should have been a better fighter, where was this established in the show? Tell me.
OMG dude, this is personal opinion. I'm saying he should have based on the fact that he was the leader of an army, member of the Light, formidable foe to Aquaman and replacement of Ocean Master. I expected more from him. That is all. Calm down. It's no big whoop. Just thought he would be a better fighter and not be bested in each fight he was shown to be in. That's all.


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So first you claim he is a better fighter, now you're telling how the writers and creative team should have done their job regarding the character, because it didn't match the way you and only you saw the character.
No one is telling how the writers and creative team should have done their job regarding the character. I assumed he would be a better villain. He was not when it came to hand to hand combat. That is all. No buts, no cuts, no coconuts lol.

Also, I'm sure I'm not the ONLY person that thought he would be more of what he was shown to be as far as fighting skills. Although I enjoyed the last episode, I am somewhat in agreement that it felt rushed. Therefore, because it felt somewhat rushed I felt the fight between BM and Kaldur was rushed and used to finally end the conflict between them. BM should have and could have been a better fighter and more of a threat to Kaldur, but maybe he was secretly holding back because it was his son and he really couldn't fight him like Kaldur was anyone else, regardless of what he said about "whooping/beating him (sic)"


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Then why are Lex Luthor, Queen Bee, Ras' al Ghul and Vanda Savage the top dogs alongside the Brain? Why aren't Monsier Allah, Deathstroke, Sportsmaster in charge?
I said, "You just don't become leader of the Light on smarts alone." This means that it takes smarts AND something else to become "top dog." Not saying that something else has to be brute force, but given what he know of these villains, and don't know, it seems that the villains aren't lightweights and can back up their proverbial mouths.

Lex is a skilled fighter, but has numerous resources. Queen Bee the same, Ras' al Ghul the same, and Vandal Savage probably the same. Even the Brain is more than just a brain in a fishbowl and has formidable defenses.

All, I was saying is that Vandal is probably good with his hands and didn't just let Klarion do all the work. You would have to think that being immortal and around for thousands of years he more than likely mastered many martial arts/combat styles. Plus I think he does have increased strength, not on par with Supes or anything, but above a regular human. Plus if Klarion can take on three senior members of the Justice League by himself then that says a lot about him and less about those three leaguers. I would like to think that Klarion and Vandal took on the three league members, which is still hard to grasp as Capt. Marvel should have been enough for them both or at least Vandal.

Bottom line quit taking everything I say and trying to argue with me. Everything I'm saying is just subjective for the most part...which is one of the reasons this forum exists. For fans to talk about facts, and their thoughts.

Quit picking apart everything I say and trying to debate it. D*mn can't I have an opinion?!

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Old 03-10-2013, 11:14 AM   #30
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

Maybe I am the only one but Black Beetle is turning out to be my favorite character on this show. Always has the best lines and very formidable. I could probably find out on wikipedia but is he human like Blue Beetle? Or alien like green? When the final battle happens he should be featured heavily in it.

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Old 03-10-2013, 11:22 AM   #31
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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OMG dude, this is personal opinion.
Yes, but it's based off nothing the show has indicated and just what you would prefer. I'm glad you're admitting this and this is more or less settled. You can make any kind of fan fiction how Earth-16 is the master of Kung-Fu, but that just isn't the truth here.

Anyhow, who here also thinks Barry Allen will bite the dust next week? Wally simply can't keep the family tradition away and not inherit the mantle, he gave his blessings on Impulse becoming Kid Flash.

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Old 03-10-2013, 11:27 AM   #32
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Yes, but it's based off nothing the show has indicated and just what you would prefer. I'm glad you're admitting this and this is more or less settled. You can make any kind of fan fiction how Earth-16 is the master of Kung-Fu, but that just isn't the truth here.

Anyhow, who here also thinks Barry Allen will bite the dust next week? Wally simply can't keep the family tradition away and not inherit the mantle, he gave his blessings on Impulse becoming Kid Flash.
I strongly suspect something is going to happen to Barry and Wally will be the Flash by the end of this show.

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Old 03-10-2013, 11:30 AM   #33
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Anyhow, who here also thinks Barry Allen will bite the dust next week? Wally simply can't keep the family tradition away and not inherit the mantle, he gave his blessings on Impulse becoming Kid Flash.
I don't know if Barry will bite it next week, but Wally passing down the Kid Flash title to Bart this episode made it pretty much guaranteed that Wally would be (or would become) the Flash if there was a third season.

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Old 03-10-2013, 11:52 AM   #34
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Maybe I am the only one but Black Beetle is turning out to be my favorite character on this show. Always has the best lines and very formidable. I could probably find out on wikipedia but is he human like Blue Beetle? Or alien like green? When the final battle happens he should be featured heavily in it.
Black Beetle is a Reach alien. He true color and form were shown briefly in the introduction of Green Beetle when he was blasted by both Green and Blue. A pic can be found on the YJ wiki.


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I don't know if Barry will bite it next week, but Wally passing down the Kid Flash title to Bart this episode made it pretty much guaranteed that Wally would be (or would become) the Flash if there was a third season.
Idk. I think Wally is done for good and would not take up the Flash mantle, unless absolutely necessary. I also dont see Flash being killed.

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Yes, but it's based off nothing the show has indicated and just what you would prefer. I'm glad you're admitting this and this is more or less settled. You can make any kind of fan fiction how Earth-16 is the master of Kung-Fu, but that just isn't the truth here.

Anyhow, who here also thinks Barry Allen will bite the dust next week? Wally simply can't keep the family tradition away and not inherit the mantle, he gave his blessings on Impulse becoming Kid Flash.

Well there were little things here and there that suggested that Black Manta was a force to be reckoned with and a formidable villain, so I guess that could be taken a few ways...but whatever. I still think you are just nitpicking and trying to place everything in a box, but once again...whatever. Black Manta getting his arse kicked by everyone to me is the same as those wanting Kid Flash to take up the mantle, stick around or be as fast as Impulse...though not as severe. It just seemed that Black Manta would be a better fighter. Kind of how it would seem that Capt. Marvel would be a better fighter but gets beat more than he should. Black Manta could have been more, but they went a different direction...nothing big. It would be the same if they made Superman less strong or Batman less skilled for the sake of story. The writers and creative team can do what they want. Fans will still have their preference.

If someone complained about how Slade wasn't a mastermind in this show, but was in Teen Titans I could see their point, but wouldn't spend 5 or 6 posts debating on why their opinions have no merit. Just stating my opinion. Let it be. Now it's settled and I'm done with this convo lol Dang dude...you're really owning that Arsenal avatar...I feel like I've been debating Arsenal ugh

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Old 03-10-2013, 12:36 PM   #35
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Idk. I think Wally is done for good and would not take up the Flash mantle, unless absolutely necessary. I also dont see Flash being killed.
So you think they would have pretty much written out both Wally and Artemis for the rest of the show if it continued (outside of civilian cameos)? Bart will obviously still be around, but that wouldn't mean he'd be the show's primary speedster since his arc will be over by the end of this season. Add that there was going to be another time-skip and who knows where these characters would be at by then.

Plus, I'm not sure how much sense it would make to include Wally West in a show like this without planning for him to become the Flash since it's what he's known for. I mean, if they were going to stick with the comics with Bart becoming the second Kid Flash, then I don't see why they wouldn't have Wally become the Flash at some point.

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Old 03-10-2013, 12:45 PM   #36
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So you think they would have pretty much written out both Wally and Artemis for the rest of the show if it continued (outside of civilian cameos)? Bart will obviously still be around, but that wouldn't mean he'd be the show's primary speedster since his arc will be over by the end of this season. Add that there was going to be another time-skip and who knows where these characters would be at by then.

Plus, I'm not sure how much sense it would make to include Wally West in a show like this without planning for him to become the Flash since it's what he's known for. I mean, if they were going to stick with the comics with Bart becoming the second Kid Flash, then I don't see why they wouldn't have Wally become the Flash at some point.
I see your point. However, since they have been stressing so much that Wally wants to retire and have introduced Bart into the series I'm taking it as their way of giving us a kid flash (Bart) that would take up the mangle of Flash if Barry was in fact killed rather than having the hero and side-kick theme carry on. If there was another time skip of 5+ years then Bart would be old enough to be Flash and wouldn't need to be kid flash anymore IMO.

I see your point, but just don't see Wally becoming Flash if in this universe he is slower than Bart and Bart being his sidekick. Think about it. A slower speedster who has been in retirement comes back to take the mantle of Flash when there is another speedster who at the time will be old enough to be Flash, presumably, and is faster and has just enough experience/skill if not more because he wasn't in retirement. You can't have the side-kick be better and more skilled than the hero...that's an oxymoron and contrary to the hero/sidekick relationship. Either Wally would have to become faster somehow (or is, but doesn't want others to know for whatever reason) or Bart would become Flash in this universe if Barry were to die, with Wally taking on a Jay Garrick type of role.

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Old 03-10-2013, 12:54 PM   #37
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I see your point. However, since they have been stressing so much that Wally wants to retire and have introduced Bart into the series I'm taking it as their way of giving us a kid flash (Bart) that would take up the mangle of Flash if Barry was in fact killed rather than having the hero and side-kick theme carry on. If there was another time skip of 5+ years then Bart would be old enough to be Flash and wouldn't need to be kid flash anymore IMO.

I see your point, but just don't see Wally becoming Flash if in this universe he is slower than Bart and Bart being his sidekick. Think about it. A slower speedster who has been in retirement comes back to take the mantle of Flash when there is another speedster who at the time will be old enough to be Flash, presumably, and is faster and has just enough experience/skill if not more because he wasn't in retirement. You can't have the side-kick be better and more skilled than the hero...that's an oxymoron and contrary to the hero/sidekick relationship. Either Wally would have to become faster somehow (or is, but doesn't want others to know for whatever reason) or Bart would become Flash in this universe if Barry were to die, with Wally taking on a Jay Garrick type of role.
Martian Manhunter/Miss Martian would disagree with you. Also just because he's shown to be faster, what makes you think that means he's more efficient? We've seen MANY TIMES where a slower enemy was able to pick Bart off.

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Old 03-10-2013, 12:59 PM   #38
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I see your point. However, since they have been stressing so much that Wally wants to retire and have introduced Bart into the series I'm taking it as their way of giving us a kid flash (Bart) that would take up the mangle of Flash if Barry was in fact killed rather than having the hero and side-kick theme carry on. If there was another time skip of 5+ years then Bart would be old enough to be Flash and wouldn't need to be kid flash anymore IMO.
But that's under the assumption that the time-skip would be another five years. It might have only been 2-3 and Bart would be a few years under the League's age limit of 18. So the League would be without a speedster unless they make an exception or ask Wally to join. Plus, why would Bart have to become Kid Flash to take up the Flash title? What prohibits him from going from Impulse to the Flash? Also, Wally wanted to retire in the comics too when he was in college, but that didn't last.

And the show has followed pretty closely with everyone elses legacies from the comics. Dick went from Robin to Nightwing, Artemis assumed the Tigress name this season, Bart will go from Impulse to Kid Flash II, and Roy assumed both Red Arrow and Arsenal. So I don't see why they would have skipped Wally's. Unfortunately, we'll most likely never know since the show got canceled and Weisman probably won't comment since he'd prefer to keep it quiet on the off-chance he gets to come back to this universe in the future.


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Old 03-10-2013, 01:00 PM   #39
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Quit picking apart everything I say and trying to debate it. D*mn can't I have an opinion?!
Here's a suggestion, if you don't want debate on the opinions you post, then don't write your opinions on a DISCUSSION forum.

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Old 03-10-2013, 01:14 PM   #40
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Martian Manhunter/Miss Martian would disagree with you. Also just because he's shown to be faster, what makes you think that means he's more efficient? We've seen MANY TIMES where a slower enemy was able to pick Bart off.
Miss Martian may be stronger psychically, but MM can still teach her a thing or two and he hasn't been in retirement. For wally to come out of retirement 5 or just 2-3 years just for the sake of being a hero full-time when he doesn't want to be seems contrary to the direction of this show. Not saying it couldn't happen, but it seems unlikely given how much they are stressing he really wants to be in retirement and that Bart is his superior speed wise.

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Here's a suggestion, if you don't want debate on the opinions you post, then don't write your opinions on a DISCUSSION forum.
Wow thanks for reminding me how a discussion forum works. Appreciate it I don't mind debating...just not debating for the sake of debating. There's a difference. It feels like dude is nitpicking everything and not letting me have an opinion. That's totally different than me arguing my opinion and him countering it and going back and forth.

All I said was I thought BM would be a better fighter and not get bested in almost every fight. I gave my reasons why and that's it. For someone to ask, "why, why, why." And then say that my opinion basically ludicrous and has no merit is interesting to me. I didn't say BM should be the best fighter or that he should win every fight. Just that I thought he was written a weaker fighter than I would have liked, given his status as a villain and with the Light. No big whoop. I'm off of it.

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But that's under the assumption that the time-skip would be another five years. It might have only be 2-3 and Bart would be a few years under the League's age limit of 18. So the League would be without a speedster unless they make an exception or ask Wally to join. Remember, Wally wanted to retire in the comics too, but that didn't last.

And the show has followed pretty closely with everyone elses legacies from the comics. Dick went from Robin to Nightwing, Artemis assumed the Tigress name this season, Bart will go from Impulse to Kid Flash II, and Roy assumed both Red Arrow and Arsenal. So I don't see why they would have skipped Wally's. Unfortunately, we'll most likely never know since the show got canceled and Weisman probably won't comment since he'd prefer to keep it quiet on the off-chance he gets to come back to this universe in the future.

True. Well since we aren't given another season we can only speculate with no absolute unless the show runners give us definite answers...even then unless the shows/episodes were made and finished things would still be open for changes. Would I have liked to see Wally as Flash? Yes. Do I think that the show was going in that direction? No. Would I have liked it to? Yes. Do I think that Bart is Wally's superior all around right now? No. Do I think in 2-3 or 5+ years time he would be? Yes. Why? Because Wally would be in retirement and that time would be more than enough for Bart to hone his skills and learn how to capitalize on his weaknesses.

Nevertheless I dig what you are saying.

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Old 03-10-2013, 01:20 PM   #41
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That's exactly what I felt! I guess it was good enough at bringing closure but I feel like the amount of buildup that went into what went on here, it was a bit anticlimactic. But still enjoyable. I feel more at ease for the ending next week.
Agreed.

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I doubt it. Like Vandal said (and was implied earlier) the justice system on Rimbor is built off of bribes and treachery.
Well, yeah, but the evidence is more or less irrefutable.

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Plus I was utterly FLABBERGASTED at the fact that NONE of the Light members had suspected Kaldur of being a traitor. Seriously...?
You make it sound as if they welcomed him with open arms. He had to prove himself before he was officially accepted as their ally. Joining his father's army years prior to the first episode of the season was the first step. Then he blew up all those aliens. Then he "murdered" Artemis. Then he blew up Mount Justice. And then he was rendered catatonic by Miss Martian. They had absolutely no reason to think that he wasn't on their side.

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'My friend.'? Wally, it wasn't since your last speaking role you were convinced Kaldur was a triple agent...
And now he knows he wasn't.

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And Lagoon Boy should've just batted MM's hand away in a 'this-doesn't-change-anything' fashion. If someone missed last episode you'd never think they'd just broken up.

Beetle taking over for the Reach in place of the Ambassador didn't surprise me at all.
Agreed.

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Old 03-10-2013, 02:06 PM   #42
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

Dude Aqualad is the &^%(*&ing man!
that " we value our true friends and we are not in short supply of them!" and
" i think that was fairly ruthless father! i hope that made you proud" beating manta's sushi head in! That was awesome!
This show is the bomb!! and i dig the whole subtext behind Manta's dont you know "as a free man you cant be soft!" i know where that dude was coming from and being pissed that he is no body's slave!
it's a shame that quality adult programming has to go away to sell big headed dolls.. but oh well. i will enjoy the ride for as long as it last! this show has turned out to be just as good as the justice league animated series was
IT'S FREAKING AWESOME!!

... oh and I love love beast boy biting the $ out Monsieur Mallah and kicking his block off as a rhino. that dude hasn't gotten to be cool! Eveybody's gotten to be cool on this show!

... oh yeah and i really really hate black Beetle which means he is a really really good bad guy with that "meat" talk! i soooo wanna punch his dung beetle mouth in!!

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Old 03-10-2013, 02:22 PM   #43
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

So question.

Since Green Beetle was on Mode does that mean his scarab also talked to him? We never heard it order him around as Jaimie's did.

Also do you think that Black Beetle is on mode or since he is Reach he does not need to be?

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Old 03-10-2013, 02:35 PM   #44
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

i prsonally think black and green beetle is on mode but they didnt show theirs like blue so as not needed plot exposition! All i know is i HATE *&^%(*^ BLACK!! I Got some meat for him! POW! RIGHT IN THE KISSER! i so want Superman to punch his ass!.. and really that was the only thing that bothered me. this show is soo cool it got me to dig Shazam ( and i aint even a shazam guy) but that dude went out like a sucker with Vandal and clarion! That was some Bull*&^%%. you mean Canary, my man Lighting and SHAZAM went out like a light blub against those two! again they make Cap'n marvel look like a chump! Boo that!

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Old 03-10-2013, 02:40 PM   #45
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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So question.

Since Green Beetle was on Mode does that mean his scarab also talked to him? We never heard it order him around as Jaimie's did.

Also do you think that Black Beetle is on mode or since he is Reach he does not need to be?
Maybe. Green's a Martian, so he and his scarab could have conversed telepathically.

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Old 03-10-2013, 03:31 PM   #46
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

Black Beetle is a Reach more than likely that just chose to get enhanced or something.

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Old 03-10-2013, 03:41 PM   #47
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I don't know if Barry will bite it next week, but Wally passing down the Kid Flash title to Bart this episode made it pretty much guaranteed that Wally would be (or would become) the Flash if there was a third season.
where the hell did you get THAT from? he CLEARLY said he was retiring with Artemis.

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no kid in fifteen years will recall what was going on in the haze of animated card game shows where cat faced japanese children yelled annoyingly and danced around and shot mushrooms out of their mouths.
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Old 03-10-2013, 03:44 PM   #48
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

Subtext.

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Old 03-10-2013, 03:58 PM   #49
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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where the hell did you get THAT from? he CLEARLY said he was retiring with Artemis.
Yeah, but you don't give heroes who want to retire, retirement. So it's easy to get from hell itself that there will be build up in next episode, or rhetorically in the next season if there was one.

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Old 03-10-2013, 04:59 PM   #50
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Idk. I think Wally is done for good and would not take up the Flash mantle, unless absolutely necessary. I also dont see Flash being killed.
This show has two big issues with character deaths: characters actually dying and characters staying dead.

Think about it. How many on screen 'deaths' have actually been permanent deaths? Not many. And there are countless fake-outs. Since they fit into the story decently enough, I have no complaints I guess, but I was kind of hoping that at least ONE meaningful character death on screen would take place.

That was another disappointing part of this episode. Artemis and Aqualad's death fake outs. It wouldn't have been so bad if we hadn't seen it so much already, but here it went. Again. Then again, if Aqualad actually died here, we wouldn't get that great Manta vs. Kaldur moment and the reuniting of the original team but still.

I'm currently researching to do a Young Justice Season 3 fan fiction (I know it's ambitious, but I'm really excited to start ) and I'm considering having the death of Barry be the opening scene. I think it'd be the next logical major event in the YJ world's story. Something has gotta snap Wally out of this "I'm too scared to play hero" nonsense. It would rock the Flash family to the core not to mention the League. Impulse would undoubtedly be seen as too young and immature to pick up the mantle so they'd probably approach Wally... who's proven himself before.

Then, they can put Bart in his Kid Flash persona and possibly focus a bit more on the League trying to revisit the popular JLU incarnation of the Team (since the Rimbor prisoners are that lineup already XD)

I'm dreaming here, but it burns me so much to know I won't see this story continue on. Definitely my favorite DC cartoon of all the one's I've watched to completion.

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