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Old 03-10-2013, 06:59 PM   #51
Midnight Black
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Originally Posted by cleverusername8 View Post
This show has two big issues with character deaths: characters actually dying and characters staying dead.

Think about it. How many on screen 'deaths' have actually been permanent deaths? Not many. And there are countless fake-outs. Since they fit into the story decently enough, I have no complaints I guess, but I was kind of hoping that at least ONE meaningful character death on screen would take place.

That was another disappointing part of this episode. Artemis and Aqualad's death fake outs. It wouldn't have been so bad if we hadn't seen it so much already, but here it went. Again. Then again, if Aqualad actually died here, we wouldn't get that great Manta vs. Kaldur moment and the reuniting of the original team but still.

I'm currently researching to do a Young Justice Season 3 fan fiction (I know it's ambitious, but I'm really excited to start ) and I'm considering having the death of Barry be the opening scene. I think it'd be the next logical major event in the YJ world's story. Something has gotta snap Wally out of this "I'm too scared to play hero" nonsense. It would rock the Flash family to the core not to mention the League. Impulse would undoubtedly be seen as too young and immature to pick up the mantle so they'd probably approach Wally... who's proven himself before.

Then, they can put Bart in his Kid Flash persona and possibly focus a bit more on the League trying to revisit the popular JLU incarnation of the Team (since the Rimbor prisoners are that lineup already XD)

I'm dreaming here, but it burns me so much to know I won't see this story continue on. Definitely my favorite DC cartoon of all the one's I've watched to completion.
Why is it that Wally has to be "too scared to play hero?" Maybe the guy just wants a normal life with the love of his life minus all the extra stuff that comes with being hero. Maybe the fact that Kaldur lost his love and Jason Todd died just struck home and made him realize he wants a normal life more than dressing up playing hero. There is nothing wrong with that. I agree I would like to see him transition to Flash, but I also don't mind his story being written different him being the only one to retire and enjoy the regular life while Bart/Impulse/KF II eventually becomes the Flash once he hits 18 or 19 or whatever. Heck maybe even Wally comes back for 1 or 2 episodes to dress up as the Flash for a mission because the "Flash" is needed, but then it gets passed to Bart. This would satisfy the notion that he does become Flash, but also that he obtain's his sought after retirement....similar to how Artemis takes on the Tigress persona, but as a disguise/alias/undercover double agent.

I just don't see why everyone has a problem with the man wanting to retire and leaving it at that. I kind of dig the notion of Barry passing it to Bart when he is ready and then Bart and maybe Wally training Bart's father (Barry's son) when he is old enough and then Bart's father training Bart again when he is born. How weird would that be.

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Old 03-10-2013, 07:32 PM   #52
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Originally Posted by BLACKVULCAN View Post
Dude Aqualad is the &^%(*&ing man!
that " we value our true friends and we are not in short supply of them!" and
" i think that was fairly ruthless father! i hope that made you proud" beating manta's sushi head in! That was awesome!
This show is the bomb!! and i dig the whole subtext behind Manta's dont you know "as a free man you cant be soft!" i know where that dude was coming from and being pissed that he is no body's slave!
it's a shame that quality adult programming has to go away to sell big headed dolls.. but oh well. i will enjoy the ride for as long as it last! this show has turned out to be just as good as the justice league animated series was
IT'S FREAKING AWESOME!!
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. Black Manta has been full of interesting quotes that I have caught on to...ESPECIALLY when he is talking to his son....

"Such a waste. You really have no ambition beyond serving Aquaman? Aren't schools of others willing to die for their king? This fool, for example."

"Ignorant boy, this is not a world, a universe in which a free man can afford to be soft."

and there was always this little gem

“No agreement exists that makes a slave of Black Manta.”

I suppose I would say it is me looking for things like that, but that is so part of Black Manta's character that it had to be intentional...


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Old 03-10-2013, 07:37 PM   #53
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

Yeah, Manta is quite militant, but they do it in such a way it don't come off preachy.

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Old 03-10-2013, 07:58 PM   #54
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Originally Posted by Midnight Black View Post
Why is it that Wally has to be "too scared to play hero?" Maybe the guy just wants a normal life with the love of his life minus all the extra stuff that comes with being hero. Maybe the fact that Kaldur lost his love and Jason Todd died just struck home and made him realize he wants a normal life more than dressing up playing hero. There is nothing wrong with that. I agree I would like to see him transition to Flash, but I also don't mind his story being written different him being the only one to retire and enjoy the regular life while Bart/Impulse/KF II eventually becomes the Flash once he hits 18 or 19 or whatever. Heck maybe even Wally comes back for 1 or 2 episodes to dress up as the Flash for a mission because the "Flash" is needed, but then it gets passed to Bart. This would satisfy the notion that he does become Flash, but also that he obtain's his sought after retirement....similar to how Artemis takes on the Tigress persona, but as a disguise/alias/undercover double agent.

I just don't see why everyone has a problem with the man wanting to retire and leaving it at that. I kind of dig the notion of Barry passing it to Bart when he is ready and then Bart and maybe Wally training Bart's father (Barry's son) when he is old enough and then Bart's father training Bart again when he is born. How weird would that be.
He's afraid of loss. As legitimate of a fear as it is, it is still a fear. Therefore, he quit because he is scared and that's all I'm saying. But from what I've gathered from what I've seen of this version of him, his sense of duty is pretty great and he'll do anything to honor his friends and mentors. Even if it means breaking one of his "rules" or coming out of retirement temporarily. And something as traumatic as his mentor and long time hero dying would be enough to bring him out permanently. Remember that Wally idolizes Barry. That was the whole thing behind him coming to visit when the lightening struck the chemicals turning him into Kid Flash... he was there to meet the Flash who was his idol. And from the looks of things, they're close just as Barry Allen and Wally West as well. So it'd definitely be serious enough of a case to get Wally to get over himself. What I wonder is if Artemis would be willing to unretire along with him... Might have to explore that in my writing.

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Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. Black Manta has been full of interesting quotes that I have caught on to...ESPECIALLY when he is talking to his son....

"Such a waste. You really have no ambition beyond serving Aquaman? Aren't schools of others willing to die for their king? This fool, for example."

"Ignorant boy, this is not a world, a universe in which a free man can afford to be soft."

and there was always this little gem

“No agreement exists that makes a slave of Black Manta.”

I suppose I would say it is me looking for things like that, but that is so part of Black Manta's character that it had to be intentional...
I know, that's the FIRST thing that came to my mind after hearing him say those things as well XD But wasn't the original Black Manta character intentionally created to portray that kind of thing anyway? It's even in his name. Early minority comic characters were all like this more or less.

Speaking of which, fancy seeing Black Lightning again... I thought that was a one time cameo. Did he officially join the League? I don't remember that- maybe it was early on in the show.

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Old 03-10-2013, 08:11 PM   #55
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
I suppose I would say it is me looking for things like that, but that is so part of Black Manta's character that it had to be intentional...
oh no man! i picked up on that as soon as he said it!
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Originally Posted by terry78 View Post
Yeah, Manta is quite militant, but they do it in such a way it don't come off preachy.
totally agree but the only thing i would say is that dude aint militant he's straight up racist!!
this was touched on in the comic when san deigo fell into the ocean that dude wanted to have a place for blacks only! That dude has that "magneto complex" thing going on which aint cool but you can see his reason! you can understand where that hate comes from and giving him a motive. after reading countless comics i got tired of that world domination thing. now with me, it has to be i wanna dominate the world because...
and you could see dude totally betraying Vandal and Lex and Ras cause they dont fit in his plans.none of those dudes could be trusted! which made it even cooler cause you were like Okay whos going to betray who. You could feel that Manta with kaldur was like " at last somebody who believes the way i do! Only for Aqualad to say I DONT THINK SO POPS those are my boys right there! That was cool
... oh and whoever said that fight with Nightwing was Dope I agree that knee kick followed with getting in between dude's arms and hitting him with those batons was awesome!! I was DAMN! This show is violent as hell too!
I freakin love it!

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Old 03-10-2013, 10:17 PM   #56
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

I was starting to think I was annoyed by some of the arguments discussions here... But then I went IMDb. Yikes. Everything that happens is either bad writing or a deus ex machina. "Blah, blah, blah. I'm glad it's getting canceled if this is the writing we were gonna keep getting." It's a lovefest over here by comparison.

This show made Sportsmaster, freaking Sportsmaster relevant!!!!
Every time I go back there I'm reminded of my reasons for leaving.

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Old 03-11-2013, 12:04 AM   #57
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Exclamation Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

(You know the episode was good when it inspired a 2 post review.)

Unfortunately, all great things must come to an end, and "SUMMIT" officially sets up this finale, as the penultimate episode of "YOUNG JUSTICE", a show which CN commissioned for two seasons and which has aired on its network across four different years (Nov. 2010 - March 2013). It actually pre-dated the whole "DC Nation" block, but who knows if that was a bane or a boon. What is known is that with six less episodes to wrap up a seasonal arc far more intense and character laden than the previous season, that means a lot of cramming into as few minutes as possible. Frankly, I think the last episode seemed to kick off this trend, and "SUMMIT" certainly continues. It also continues the trend of having a ton of characters being mute as guest stars, as well as not only wrapping up quite a few subplots, but tying things together from all the way back to "USUAL SUSPECTS", of which this is a sequel to in many ways.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
In Santa Prisca - yes, Bane's island where the trap for "USUAL SUSPECTS" was set five years ago - the Light and the Reach have organized a formal meeting to address grievances. The Reach have brought their often flustered Ambassador as well as their lead scientist, a bunch of expendable minions, and the seemingly unbeatable Black Beetle. Four out of the seven of the Light have seemingly assembled (Vandal Savage, Black Manta, Ra's Al Ghul, and the Brain) as well as their own "security" squad of minions (Aqualad, Tigress, Ubu, Mallah, and Deathstroke). The Reach take the Light to task for improperly guarding the "Beetle site" in Bialya where the team successfully liberated Green and Blue Beetles. While of course the Light wanted the team to succeed and in fact allowed it deliberately, Vandal covered it by claiming ignorance because the Reach are often stingy with details - which isn't untrue. We also learn the exact terms of their alliance - that supposedly the Light would be the Reach's favored agents in return to aiding them in enslaving the earth - although Black Manta hardly seems to have accepted such terms. After about the first few minutes, though, the situation quickly falls apart for our villains - just about the first time that's really happened for the Light.

While there are a ton of characters and quite a few character moments, if any one had focus this episode, it was Kaldur. In this episode we see the many ways in which he differs from his father Black Manta, as well as other areas where they're similar. It seems that Kaldur is capable of being just as ruthless, if not more so, than his father; on the other hand, he also appears far more patient and calculating. When a fight quickly breaks out between minions, it is Kaldur who calls some order. By the end of the episode one could easily see Kaldur taking command of Black Manta's forces if he so chose; although of course he wouldn't employ them for plunder. On the downside, it's Ra's who notices the "glamour charm" for the first time on Tigress, and exposes her as Artemis. The episode proceeds with quite a clever slight of hand. I'll admit a part of me gasped when Deathstroke "shot" the two of them, until I remembered there was still half an episode left and that by this count, Artemis had seemingly "died" at least three times (the others being "FAILSAFE" and "DEPTHS"). It naturally turns out that the Light's only mistake - underestimating "the team" because of their young ages - proved to cost them dearly. While a part of me still thinks Vandal Savage was a little suspicious of Kaldur back in "THE FIX" when Psimon was sicced on him, he naturally had nothing to prove his suspicions. Everything Kaldur had to do to earn his passage into the Light in prior episodes, he did. And with Psimon put out of commission and a "Martian psychic booby-trap" being the best explanation, there was no logical proof to no longer trust him (even if less than Black Manta did for obvious reasons). Much as I predicted, the infiltration of the Light wasn't merely to learn about their partner in the invasion - it was to get in deep enough until a critical time when all or most of them were together at once, and then stage a raid. After all, the Light rarely all assemble physically in one place. It was good to eat my words a little as we see the Light slip up for once; in a show where the defeat of the antagonists was rare, it thus becomes an event and something worth weight and sacrifice when it happens. It isn't just beating Mum-Ra every week like a routine, and thus it feels like the sort of epic accomplishment it should be.

Lots of action in this episode as naturally the Light always have counter plans of their own; a cave which they designed, and a horde of league of shadows ninja at the ready, and Klarion's absence all season being revealed. To a point this was an episode of Xanatos Gambits vs. Xanatos Gambits. Still, while the Light suffered their worst blow in 50,000 years (according to Vandal), they didn't flee empty handed. Aside for the Brain and Manta, they all fled, with Savage and Klarion managing to flee with the Warworld - quite a hefty consolation prize. And it seems that the League of Shadows aren't any harder to infiltrate as Black Manta's organization, as several team members snuck inside wearing their ninja gear. While Aqualad vs. Black Manta was easily the highlight "match" of the episode, just about everyone got to spank some expendable minions. Not that such thing are usually impressive - any named character can usually beat nameless henchmen if the plot desires, from G. Gordon Godfrey to Lian - but at least the scene was storyboareded well enough that it's at least an entertaining fight against expendable minions. Black Beetle impales Ra's and sends him for another bath in the Lazarus Pit; I was a bit miffed since while Ra's was clever enough to reveal Artemis, we saw none of his swordsmanship skills in action. Believe it or not, the last time I saw Ra's actually fight anyone in animation, it was in "BATMAN: BRAVE AND THE BOLD", despite him appearing in two seasons of this show and "BATMAN: UNDER THE RED HOOD". Not to nitpick too much, but Black Beetle sneaking up on someone should rarely happen considering he's some 8 feet tall and rarely very quiet about it. It's akin to a usual pro wrestling match when someone is caught off guard by a 6' 10'', 500 lb behemoth with a chair with an entire audience shouting a warning. In fairness of course, while Ra's can fight he's hardly an unbeatable master combatant even in the comics - he gets sent to the Lazarus Pit A LOT. I did like that little moment when Ubu seems to gain some might once he saw Ra's collapse. That Ubu, a loyal minion he be.

While there has been chatter about how poor a combatant Black Manta has seemed, I was probably more interested in how his subplot with Kaldur ended. Naturally, themes with less-than-noble fathers and their children have come up quite a bit in Greg Weisman productions, and while Black Manta may hardly be the perfect father (willing to "beat" a lesson into his son), it seemed clear that Black Manta genuinely cared for his son far more than Sportsmaster cared for his "baby girls" or in another show, Norman Osborn for his son, Harry. This angle naturally made a villain who could have been one note seem a bit more noble and even tragic than he could have been; yes, he was a terrible villain willing to plunder and murder, but he was still played like a fiddle by the son he did a lot for once he came around. From his perspective, it wasn't unreasonable for him to want vengeance on Miss Martian after she rendered Kalder catatonic and to do anything to fix him. Black Manta was trying to train Kaldur to take over the family business and be a better man; it just happened that the family business was plunder. As noted before, Kaldur seemed to inherit some sense of ruthlessness from his father, and naturally the bit where Kaldur dons some armor from one of the "Manta-men" in "DOWNTIME" could now be seen as prophetic. In the end of course, as Kaldur stated, while Manta has some nobility to him, he's twisted it in his zeal for personal gain and conquest. I did notice some of the militant code-words to Black Manta, such as "free man" and his position that one had to be merciless to carve out a piece of a world against you. Did he get wrecked a lot? Sure, but many villains do. At least he had a personality, and without expecting it we got the sort of father/son conflict that a lot of superhero shows have but usually telegraph more due to experience. He had it coming, but it is sympathetic to be betrayed by a son that you did genuinely love, even if for a worthy cause. By giving villains some noble qualities, you give them more weight and that's one of the many things this episode, and show, does well.

But of course to ignore the one detail of this episode would be to ignore the detail which caused a certain section of the message board forums to quiver in anticipation - the return of Kid-Flash. It had been a mere eight episodes since the show'd utilized him, and while his scene at the end of "DARKEST" was rather good, his theory of Aqualad being a triple agent wound up being paranoia. There are some who insisted that some arc was happening for him, and that with a little patience more would come. I, on the other hand, saw the writing on the wall at the start of the season and eventually even Greg Weisman acknowledged that as the season wound on he wasn't one of its leads. There is a part of me who felt that one of the founding characters of the show shouldn't have been dismissed so easily and steadily, but them's the breaks and that's how the story sorted out. While his appearance here was fun, there was a slight awkwardness to it and he still did no more than I expected - he beats some minions, and he reunites with Artemis (no levers were pulled). He's HER boyfriend, not the other way around; she is the dominant character in the show's universe to me. As I have stated before, this is perhaps a case of equal time as there have been many otherwise perfectly engaging heroines reduced to merely being the girlfriend of some male hero in comics or animation - one could argue even Wonder Woman has been reduced to this in the current JUSTICE LEAGUE comic. They have a "battle couple" moment together, and some sassy dialogue with each other. More to the point, we saw none of the concerned seriousness that Wally seemed to have in most of his prior appearances - especially "DEPTHS", "DARKEST", and even "BLOODLINES". Here Wally's joking around like he used to do in Season 1, with nary any of the serious concern he usually had this season. The "Didja miss me, Vandy?" line was naturally a shout-out to "COLDHEARTED", but also probably surprising from the same guy who seemed to be the voice of doom every time he spoke in earlier episodes. After all, you knew it was dangerous when Wally was the one warning Nightwing, right? The bottom line? Despite a lot of hemming and hawing and what has seemed like years worth of debates, I'm close enough to spike the football here. Kid-Flash spent this episode as he did prior ones this season; as a support character. He had no reason to exist this season aside to support Artemis, Impulse, Red Arrow, and Nightwing. He also "passes the torch" to Impulse for the right to use his mantle, which was another shout out to "BLOODLINES" and the whole Flash family thing. I know Bart Allen becomes Kid-Flash in the comics, but I always found Impulse to be a better name (even if Wally had outgrown a "kid" name by this season). It's a cute moment and they have some good lines together, but I can't help but wonder if Wally's absence hindered it. Impulse treats it as a grand gesture, and while I am sure it was symbolically, the fact that Wally retired and spent most of the season that way sort of lessened the impact - the unintentional feeling was Wally essentially dumping a mantle he no longer wanted on his more powerful and ever eager time flung relative. "Here, sport, go be Kid-Flash now so I can retire with my hot girlfriend, again."

Artemis naturally issued some delicious lines, whether to Ra's or to Wally, and her own arc seemed to end. Wally seemed content to return to retirement after that battle - again, the fact that he says that after two costumed appearances amounting to little in roughly a year's worth of time makes it seem hollow. We never found out exactly why they retired, beyond just wanting a normal life. Naturally in "THE FIX" we learned that Artemis regretted taking up Nightwing's offer and is probably eager to return to retirement as well. Unlike Wally, such a thing for her doesn't seem hollow because she was utilized a lot this season - especially in a role which forced her into posing as the sort of criminal that Sportsmaster would have preferred and she'd spent her life avoiding. The show had teased her death twice this season, but the fact that it seemed to work every time sort of cemented what a lynch-pin she was for this season. While "the plan" may have belonged to Kaldur and Nightwing, it was she who became instrumental in its success by the final act. Unlike with Wally, I can understand why she would want to retire more; she's done with having a taste of villainy which reminds her of her terrible father, and she's sought a stable family life since Cheshire left when she was a child. Whereas due to the lack of focus, it can be easy to assume that Wally was merely a superhero until he was worthy enough of a "spitfire" and then quit while he was ahead, and literally nothing could get him off that couch aside for a reunion. I imagine this would have been handled better in a longer season, but apparently this season needed room for the runaways and more of Arsenal. There's rumors via Twitter of something altering this dynamic for "ENDGAME", but these are the same people who have seen some lofty Flash arc coming forever. They've been wrong for months and I believe nothing until I see it. It may seem as if it was "natural" for Wally to become Flash in a theoretical third season, but given the current state of DC Comics, I am not sure. A third season may have phased them out a bit more. Regardless, seasons that won't be don't count; it's what the show leaves us with which will.

Naturally, the newer class get to step up a bit; Impulse and Beast Boy get to take down Brain and Mallah, after all. I imagine the latter was an homage to the "Brotherhood of Evil" arc from TEEN TITANS, which is an odd thing to homage since in this show, Queen Bee killed Gar's mother and he never met Mento or the Doom Patrol. Between the impaling of Ra's and the gorilla bite, I was impressed that this show seemed to stretch what CN would allow in terms of violence for any show which isn't dubbed anime. Lagoon Boy manages to save Miss Martian from Klarion's fire-dragon spell, which for some seemed awkward because they broke up last episode; I thought it worked for me. Firstly because it gave Lagoon Boy a good power moment after a season of being beaten down and captured a lot, and also because it gave the hint that there was no ill will between them and maybe even a future. I mean, do ALL couples just break up once and that's it? Just because Miss Martian feels La'Gann is just a rebound, means she has to feel that way forever? That just because she dumped him, Lagoon Boy can't still care for Miss Martian and be there for her when she needs him? While I still say Megan may not be a "dream girlfriend" until she comes to terms with her own identity issues, but she may still be La'Gann's "angelfish". Beast Boy seems to get in the only line of disapproval about Nightwing's whole manipulation, and while amusing it did seem like a cop out. The show hadn't ignored fall-out from the plan - Superboy and Lagoon Boy did chew Nightwing out a bit in "THE FIX" - but what about the other members? Beast Boy was among those literally allowed to be captured and tortured by the Reach for days until being rescued. It was essential but still not pleasant, I imagine, in the long term. Miss Martian naturally got her chance to work around Artemis' "death" and the mixed emotions it brought, but what about the others? They didn't mind their emotions being manipulated for theater? Or is earth-16 like the regular DCU where people die and come back every second Tuesday? Much like some of the stuff with Wally, I imagine this is another victim of the shortened season, but it perhaps could have been designed better. I expected Nightwing's plan to cause a serious moral dilemma for the rest of his peers once they found out; instead it's all high fives and milk shakes because they captured some bad guys and nobody died (beyond all performances to the contrary).

Let's talk about some villains. There have been some complaints that Deathstroke was essentially written out in exposition, but I didn't mind this too much because it was required for the surprise. Besides, after 5 seasons of "TEEN TITANS" I had gotten a lot of Slade so I didn't mind him being dismissed too much. I have seen other complaints about Vandal Savage and Klarion swiftly beating three Leaguers before making off with Warworld, but I also don't see this as a major concern. There wasn't enough time to show the battle and in the end it's details; Klarion is more than powerful enough to beat the three of them, especially with the element of surprise. "Why didn't Vandal Savage kill them/take them hostage?" There wasn't time, and if he'd done either, the heroes would have made more effort to follow him if they were seeking a rescue or to avenge their own. By that point Vandal Savage was in damage control; his alliance with the Reach was shattered and his Light was scattered. It was time to cut his losses and flee with his major prize, the Warworld. After all, within the right hands it IS an army of one, where he can forge a new path on some other planet, or at least a solid defense until he and Klarion plan anew. It was a tactical retreat; a rare one for Vandal but still one which was needed. Him zealously fighting to the last or scoring "bodies" out of spite would have been counter productive. Besides, he's employed the League as pawns in his plans many times, and you never know when Black Canary or Captain Marvel may be useful for such things. While Savage's flaw may be arrogance in regards to youths, he also is patient. A successful getaway is worth a lot, especially compared to the Vandal Savage of Bruce Timm/Dwayne McDuffie who tended to stick around for losing battles. In contrast, a villain who fights to the last and out of spite is Black Beetle, which is exactly how "ENDGAME" has been planned - his attempt to slash and burn the earth before fleeing a failed investment before the GL's show up. Aside for when Green Beetle "beat" him in "TRUE COLORS" - presumably an act to quickly endear him with the heroes - Black Beetle has never been defeated in combat, and he's taken on the entire team and a "scarab controlled" Jaime at once. Black Beetle relishes combat to a fault, as he has many times this season when he could have ended many battles but instead took too much time playing with his food. If the Ambassador's flaw was being feckless and weak willed, Black Beetle's flaw is being too much of the other way around - more warrior, less strategist. The Ambassador finally got his comeuppance, but it was easy to feel a little sorry for the Reach Scientist, being tossed between two megalomaniacs.


(Part II, below)

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Old 03-11-2013, 12:05 AM   #58
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

An epic episode demands an epic review!

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Despite some hiccups and a massively large cast and material to cover, this episode wrapped things up about as well as it could. The infiltration is over and while not a flawless success, it was a success in regard to breaking up The Light and sending their core architects packing off world. Given how Vandal Savage and Klarion seem to stick together, I wouldn't be surprised if they were the first two due to age; Klarion would be the next oldest after Vandal. "Spitfire" was reunited, the heroes apparently are fine with Nightwing, the matrix of leadership is passed back to Kaldur, and the Warworld is gone. "DROP ZONE" was referenced a little and in fact flipped a little; in that episode Kaldur assumed the lead, but claimed he was essentially keeping the seat warm for when Grayson was ready. Fast forward a season, and now Nightwing is the one who was keeping the seat warm for the figure who was their "true" leader - he got his taste for it, and as prior episodes showed, he was hardly a perfect leader. It was still an elevation for Nightwing, just this episode cemented that it didn't have to come at Kaldur's expense, which is what is ideal. Part of being a leader is on making tough decisions and even painful sacrifices - something Kaldur was unwilling to do in "FAILSAFE" but had been willing to do or agree to this season; at least to a point. And while in fairness Wally West did make his intention to stay retired known, there was that key disclaimer - after the invasion was handled. With Black Beetle gone and with still some 45% or more of their fleet left in the ocean, there is still a lot to do. And while a finale dealing with Black Beetle may not be up to everyone's speed, at least it wasn't Darkseid or Galactus summoned out of nowhere, but a very engaging seasonal villain. Black Beetle managed to take over the role Sportsmaster had last season and ran with it. "The Light" are not republic serial villains who fight to the last in losing battles; they're pragmatic and know when to fold and try a new hand another time. Black Beetle is the sort of zealous warrior who WOULD fight to the last, go down screaming as the base explodes around him, which is how "ENDGAME" seems to be set up to be. Given that this show has had the definitive Vandal Savage for me, I would have felt cheated had he be taken down or captured in "SUMMIT". I wouldn't have minded seeing Savage fight again, but at least he shows that Lex Luthor isn't the only DC Comics mastermind out there.


"ENDGAME" will probably put a bullet point on the Reach storyline with a cast of some two dozen voice actors (with many of them playing 2-3 roles), but it will have to put a bullet point on the show. Will it end like "WOLVERINE & THE X-MEN" with a final haunting vision of the future which wasn't quite averted? While there were some flaws to this episode, on the whole "SUMMIT" was a crowd pleaser. It offered damn near every major character in the show, a lot of good action and dialogue, and a lot of loose ends tied off or at least put on a satisfying enough hold. What it didn't have in some details it made up for in broad strokes and one twist after another. It perhaps lacked the intense cliffhanger that "USUAL SUSPECTS" had, it still leaves things ready and poised for a season/series finale. Last season, Grayson and Superboy owned the final battle of the finale; which characters will it be this time?

"SUMMIT" was an episode I anticipated for weeks, and petty nitpicks aside, it didn't disappoint. Terrific work by cast, crew, writers, and animators, proving once again that Bruce Timm is not the be all and end all of quality DC Animation. A sum up of the show will come next week, but warts and all it still is the best thing to come from DCE onto TV screens since 2006. It is a travesty that it has ended, although at least we got more of it than of "SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN". And lastly, a sign I liked an episode is when I seem to dissect every detail and my episode reviews become like small novels - those who remember the 2k3 TMNT forum should be used to it.

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Old 03-11-2013, 01:18 AM   #59
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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(You know the episode was good when it inspired a 2 post review.) He's HER boyfriend, not the other way around; she is the dominant character in the show's universe to me.
And yet the episode seemed content to show Wally saving her, or her on the wrong end of an attack.

Quote:
There's rumors via Twitter of something altering this dynamic for "ENDGAME", but these are the same people who have seen some lofty Flash arc coming forever. They've been wrong for months and I believe nothing until I see it. It may seem as if it was "natural" for Wally to become Flash in a theoretical third season, but given the current state of DC Comics, I am not sure. A third season may have phased them out a bit more. Regardless, seasons that won't be don't count; it's what the show leaves us with which will.
I think the tweets hold a little more weight when it comes from "KF's own voice actor." And The Flash is supposed to be in the final episode.

Also I know you didn't think much of KF hamming it up, but after a season of him angsting I was kind of glad to see him going back to his roots a little. That's not to say I had a problem with it, one of the things I love about Wally is the emotional range of the character. He can be a clueless goofball who thinks he has a chance with M'gann one moment and then be the smartest guy in the room who can help the team create a device to shut down the Red's in another. He can be serious one minute, and an absolute spas the next.
In fact one of the things I loved about the character that disappoineted me about his DCAU counterpart by it not being there was his cynicism. In the comics, that facet of his character created ALOT of roadblocks for him. In JL(U) he was pretty much the most gullible guy in the world.

BTW, one more thing you forgot that Sarcastic Fan mentioned; this episode took place on June 19th, which is Father's Day in 2016 (the year this takes place). Greg Weisman always relishes the opportunity to twist the knife, just a LITTLE DEEPER when the perfect opportunity presents itself.

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Old 03-11-2013, 02:37 AM   #60
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And yet the episode seemed content to show Wally saving her, or her on the wrong end of an attack.
I meant in terms of story arcs.

Quote:
I think the tweets hold a little more weight when it comes from "KF's own voice actor." And The Flash is supposed to be in the final episode.

Also I know you didn't think much of KF hamming it up, but after a season of him angsting I was kind of glad to see him going back to his roots a little. That's not to say I had a problem with it, one of the things I love about Wally is the emotional range of the character. He can be a clueless goofball who thinks he has a chance with M'gann one moment and then be the smartest guy in the room who can help the team create a device to shut down the Red's in another. He can be serious one minute, and an absolute spas the next.
In fact one of the things I loved about the character that disappoineted me about his DCAU counterpart by it not being there was his cynicism. In the comics, that facet of his character created ALOT of roadblocks for him. In JL(U) he was pretty much the most gullible guy in the world.

BTW, one more thing you forgot that Sarcastic Fan mentioned; this episode took place on June 19th, which is Father's Day in 2016 (the year this takes place). Greg Weisman always relishes the opportunity to twist the knife, just a LITTLE DEEPER when the perfect opportunity presents itself.
I wanted to leave Sarcastic Fan with his own unique details and analysis. My review was long enough as is trying to cover everything.

It wasn't that I "didn't think much" of Kid-Flash here, I just found the transition a little jarring. He hasn't joked much this season, whereas in "SUMMIT" he was giving Spider-Man a run for his money. As lines of dialogue I was amused. The transition from "DARKEST" to here was a bit abrupt. I think there needed to be something in between, which was likely a casualty of editing. The comparison to Spider-Man, BTW, was not unintentional. That may be why I usually wind up attaching to him. The difficulty of course is that while the characters are similar, Spider-Man tends to star in his own shows a lot, while Wally West is usually merely one hero in a team show (and usually not their lead one). If any Flash or speedster gets to star in their own TV shows or DTV's, it's usually Barry Allen. Hence I usually tend to attach to the chew toy of team superheroes series.

I know about Twitter and I know by virtue of this being the last episode those clips of Flash and the rest of the JL have to be from "ENDGAME". I just refuse to get on the "Barry Allen death watch" same as I didn't for Gwen during "TSSM". All I know is that "ENDGAME" will be epic and packed to the gills. I'm not holding out for any one thing. Besides seeing some confrontation with Black Beetle, of course.

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Old 03-11-2013, 08:24 AM   #61
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

They should not violate the planet or it will put them in bad light with the Guardians and the GL Corp, but Black Beetle decides to destroy the planet? Did he hear anything the head scientist said?

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Old 03-11-2013, 08:37 AM   #62
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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They should not violate the planet or it will put them in bad light with the Guardians and the GL Corp, but Black Beetle decides to destroy the planet? Did he hear anything the head scientist said?
I think it's sort of a revenge thing for him at this point. He knows the Reach have lost and essentially there is nothing that they can do about it now. The GL Corps will be after them anyway, so they might as well exact their revenge while they have the chance... sort of like (sorry for this terrible example) last stand in Call of Duty games XD You're down, inevitably going to die, so you spastically shoot at the person who 'killed' you while you have a few seconds of dying breaths to hopefully get them back before you kick the bucket

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Old 03-11-2013, 05:15 PM   #63
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

can someone explain Light's plan to me? I seriously didn't get it

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Old 03-11-2013, 05:22 PM   #64
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can someone explain Light's plan to me? I seriously didn't get it
It's like Kaldur said, they simply want Earth to eventually rule the Milky Way. In order to achieve that, they've made a planet more famous and set in motion ways for some people's powers to emerge faster than they likely would have.

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Old 03-11-2013, 06:36 PM   #65
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

So there is Monsieur Mallah, Gorilla Grodd and how many genius level gorillas roaming the DC universe lol?

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Old 03-11-2013, 06:37 PM   #66
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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can someone explain Light's plan to me? I seriously didn't get it

Savage wants the Earth to be the rulers of the galaxy, and probably the universe afterwards.
To do that, he wants humanity to be as strong as it can possibly be. Survival of the fittest. If this means several people need to die to make the rest of the populace stronger, he'll do it.

The Light had the League attack an alien home world to attract the Reach's attention. The Reach wanted to weaponize the meta gene that lays dormant in potential human beings. Savage wanted the same thing. He tricked the Reach into coming to Earth to bring about this weaponization of the meta gene, even if it meant other 'test subjects' died in the process. However, the Reach thought the Light was going to help them subjugate the populace, when in reality the Light took great steps to undermine those efforts.

Eventually, the Reach would be outed by the Light's indirect efforts, be forced to leave Earth. Humanity's populace now has the capabilities to have super powers via the meta gene, which the Light can now artificially induce, and Earth comes out looking like a dominating force for thwarting the Reach, a threat so great the rest of the galaxy fears them, and the Green Lantern Corp opted for a cease fire.

Then Kaldur came along and let the cat out of the bag early, tipping the Reach off to the fact that they were being used.

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Old 03-11-2013, 06:48 PM   #67
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

A look at Toyman...

http://jerome-k-moore.deviantart.com/gallery/



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YOUNG JUSTICE: INVASION: THE TOYMANby *Jerome-K-Moore

Cartoons & Comics / Digital Media / Cartoons / Drawings©2013 *Jerome-K-Moore

WB Animation Character Design, YOUNG JUSTICE: INVASION, The Toyman. Pencil, Digital Clean-up and Color.

In the Second Season episode entitled, "Intervention," Winslow Schott, also known as The Toyman appears, controlling a giant robotic toy soldier, intent on robbing the First Bank of Metropolis. While claiming to have been prepared to do battle with Superman, the villain is instead quickly thwarted by The Blue Beetle, who is secretly under the power of the menacing extraterrestrial cabal called The Reach.

In designing The Toyman, I researched the character's comic book appearances. But I was also inspired by Chris Gauthier's portrayal on the syndicated television series, SMALLVILLE, as well as Michael J. Pollard's "Jahn" character from the classic STAR TREK episode, "Miri." I envision The Toyman as one of the world's biggest geeks who is into collectibles of all sorts as much as he is a brilliant inventor and tinker. His coat is full of tool pouches, and his fashion sense combines a laid-back look with a uniquely old-fashioned flair. I was gratified to see this old-fashioned flair carried over into Dusty Abell's awesome design for the giant toy soldier robot, which definitely evokes descriptions of steampunk. Dusty and I did not consult one another on this, so I admit to being pleasantly surprised by the result, and our similar train of thought.

*As always, these are my own color selections, so they may not reflect the character as he appears in the final animation. I added some personal touches that could not be translated on a television budget. The art style was established by Lead Character Designer, Phil Bourassa. I've inserted one of Phil's Blue Beetle illustrations as an aid to referencing The Toyman's appearance on the YJ show. All characters are the copyrighted property of DC Comics, and Warner Bros Animation.

• Blue Beetle designed by Cully Hamner, and Phil Bourassa
• Toy Soldier Robot designed by Dusty Abell
• The Toyman designed by J K Moore

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Old 03-11-2013, 07:28 PM   #68
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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So there is Monsieur Mallah, Gorilla Grodd and how many genius level gorillas roaming the DC universe lol?
Don't forget Ultra Humanite and every citizen of Gorilla City.

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Old 03-11-2013, 08:33 PM   #69
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

I thought he was actually a human.

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Old 03-11-2013, 09:56 PM   #70
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I thought he was actually a human.
Whoops... shows what I know -.- haha

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Old 03-12-2013, 12:16 AM   #71
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

While Ultra-Humanite is technically human (and actually was the precursor to Lex Luthor as well as one of the first reoccurring villains in DC Comics), his placement of his brain within the body of an albino gorilla sort of makes that ambiguous.

And this doesn't even count Professor Ivo's "monqui" robots. No wonder Superboy hates them as much as Indy Jones hated snakes.

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Old 03-12-2013, 02:32 AM   #72
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

Oh, I just read that he was human. But, I didn't remember what he did to make himself look like that. So, I just assumed he did some experiment and he transformed into some gorilla like creature as some sign for the theory of evolution.

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He’s much more of a working class superhero, which is why we ended the whole book with the image of a laboring Superman. He’s Everyman operating on a sci–fi Paul Bunyan scale." - Grant Morrison

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Old 03-12-2013, 03:38 AM   #73
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

I love that version of Toyman. You can tell he's based off of Chris Gauthier's look from Smallville. Very under rated actor too btw

Edit: Duh, totally made this comment before I even read the what his designer said. It's pretty obvious anyways though

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Old 03-12-2013, 07:26 AM   #74
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Originally Posted by spiderbob View Post
Savage wants the Earth to be the rulers of the galaxy, and probably the universe afterwards.
To do that, he wants humanity to be as strong as it can possibly be. Survival of the fittest. If this means several people need to die to make the rest of the populace stronger, he'll do it.

The Light had the League attack an alien home world to attract the Reach's attention. The Reach wanted to weaponize the meta gene that lays dormant in potential human beings. Savage wanted the same thing. He tricked the Reach into coming to Earth to bring about this weaponization of the meta gene, even if it meant other 'test subjects' died in the process. However, the Reach thought the Light was going to help them subjugate the populace, when in reality the Light took great steps to undermine those efforts.

Eventually, the Reach would be outed by the Light's indirect efforts, be forced to leave Earth. Humanity's populace now has the capabilities to have super powers via the meta gene, which the Light can now artificially induce, and Earth comes out looking like a dominating force for thwarting the Reach, a threat so great the rest of the galaxy fears them, and the Green Lantern Corp opted for a cease fire.

Then Kaldur came along and let the cat out of the bag early, tipping the Reach off to the fact that they were being used.
Thanks!

A kinda complex and contrived plan if you ask me. And it doesn't make it any better when the loose ends have to be tied so quickly now that the show is getting cancelled

Also, I kinda hoped that they had more time to show Kalders as a more conflicted character instead of just "he's a hero again yeyy"

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Old 03-12-2013, 08:39 AM   #75
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

Greg Weisman on the season finale - World's Finest Interview

Quote:
The World’s Finest: I personally believe that, even with the growth of the cast in the second season, Young Justice is still about the original core team introduced at the start of the first season. Would that be a correct statement to make?
Greg Weisman: Not exactly. I would say that the original core Team was more of a priority than some of the new characters. But fundamentally the second season was plot-driven. I don't think we sacrificed character, but characterization would have to come on the fly in service of the larger story. Season One was about us weaving a tapestry to introduce world, characters, conflicts, etc. Season Two had a single driving story (on multiple fronts) and the characters that have been emphasized - or at any rate received the most screen time - were the ones that the story required. So early in Season Two, you see more of Superboy - but less of him in the second half. On the other hand, Artemis barely appeared in the first half-dozen episodes, but her role became quite important, starting in episode 207 and forward. Blue Beetle, as a creation of the Reach, was obviously going to increase in importance as the season progressed and more and more of that connection and its accompanying dilemma were revealed. And because we only had 20 episodes in Season Two, rather than the 26 we had in Season One, I think it's fair to say that certain characters got shorter shrift than others. But the goal was never to give everyone equal time, but rather to make the most of what time we had to offer. I suppose one could make the argument that certain characters didn't need to appear at all, i.e. the fewer the characters, the more screen time there would be for those that made the cut. But (a) I'm not sure the audience would all agree on exactly who should make that cut, and (b) we had fun with every single character for as much or as little time as we could afford to give them. (I wouldn't choose to cut Wonder Girl just because her only big episode was "Beneath".) So instead, we just tried to be true to our continuity and introduce the characters that we felt would be there five years on. If some of those Freshmen - and even some of our Juniors and Seniors - didn't receive equal time with everyone else, I can live with that.


WF: How did the second season expand on the journey and story of the original team? GW: I like to think Season Two showed them all growing up. Physically, obviously, for all but Superboy. But also it showed them maturing. Taking on more responsibility. Making decisions - some right, some wrong, some debatable - that are more adult in nature. It seemed extremely important to [Producer Brandon Vietti] and myself, that in a show about coming of age that we got to see a few of the characters do just that.
WF: Another question that many fans asked - What story ideas and characters did you toy around with for the third season (the rumored ‘Starfire’ appearance, for example)?
GW: Well, this interview is still going to hit the web before the last episode airs, so... SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.
WF: It seemed like the first season was heading towards an invasion by Apokolips, but was seemingly abandoned in the second season for the Reach. Was Apokolips a red herring to throw fans off, to make the Reach a surprising threat, or did you decide it was a road traveled too often? Or... was it even considered at all?
GW: Nothing was abandoned. We had a plan from day one on this series, and we've stuck with it.



WF: A ‘fill-in-the-blank’ question – Could you reveal who the Team members who joined and left during the five- year gap were (other than the ones already known: Tempest, Aquagirl and Jason Todd)?
GW: Hmmm. Well, the fans have been pretty patient, so here's their reward:
DESIGNATIONS:
01 – Superman
02 – Batman
03 - Wonder Woman
04 – Flash
05 - Green Lantern
06 – Aquaman
07 - Martian Manhunter
08 - Green Arrow
09 – Hawkman
10 – Hawkwoman
11 – Zatara
12 - Captain Atom
13 - Black Canary
14 - Green Lantern
15 - Captain Marvel
16 - Red Tornado
17 - Doctor Fate
18 – Atom
19 - Plastic Man
20 – Icon
21 - Red Arrow
22 - Blue Beetle
23 - Black Lightning
24 - Green Lantern
25 – Zatanna
26 – Rocket
27 - SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.
28 - SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.
A01 - Lucas Carr
A02 - Catherine Cobert
A03 - Zatanna Zatara
A04 - John Smith
A05 - Billy Batson
A06 - SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.
A07 - SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.
A08 - SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.
A09 - SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.
A10 - Malcolm Duncan
A11 - Adam Strange
A12 - Blue Beetle
A13 - Jay Garrick
B01 - Robin/Nightwing
B02 – Aqualad
B03 - Kid Flash
B04 – Superboy
B05 - Miss Martian
B06 - Speedy/Red Arrow
B07 – Artemis
B08 – Zatanna
B09 – Rocket
B10 – Tempest
B11 – Aquagirl
B12 – Troia
B13 – Robin
B14 - Lieutenant Marvel
B15 - Sergeant Marvel
B16 – Batgirl
B17 – Bumblebee
B18 - Lagoon Boy
B19 - Beast Boy
B20 – Robin
B21 - Wonder Girl
B22 - Blue Beetle
B23 – Impulse
B24 – Guardian
B25 – Arsenal
B26 - SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.
C01 – Sphere
C02 – Wolf


WF: Ultimately, what is the one thing above all else that you hope viewers will take away from Young Justice overall?
GW: SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT. Kidding, kidding. Mostly, I just hope that the characters meant something to them. That they felt real. Not perfect. Real.
WF: Any final thoughts on Young Justice?
GW: I have no final thoughts on Young Justice, because in my head, nothing's final. Never The End...
Hey Donna Troy exists in this universe as Troia! Justice League has/had 3 Green Lanterns, so did they eventually let Guy Gardner in? Shazam family we're in too!

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