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Old 03-19-2013, 04:43 PM   #126
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

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When I saw the movie with somebody, on like my second or third viewing, they loved it. For the entire movie they were whispering "why don't they just shoot him?" So when Catwoman rolled in to the deed, they had a big grin on their face. "Finally" they said.
The thing about Bane is, as he's portrayed in the film, he seems to lack any sort of honor. He doesn't respect Bruce Wayne as an opponent and instead of granting him a warriors death he just tied him up and tried to shoot him in the face.

Bane didn't deserve a grandiose death, he deserved to be taken care of and then forgotten like the thug he was.

And like I said this is the Bane from the movie, not the other mediums.


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Old 03-19-2013, 04:55 PM   #127
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

I don't think he lacked honor entirely. He was just extremely arrogant and never anticipated Bruce returning, never mind beating him, so at the end he got frustrated and wanted satisfaction. I think he also felt vulnerable and exposed after Talia's reveal.

But during the first fight, you can tell he has some sense of honor with a backhanded sort of respect for Bruce with lines like "You fight like a young man, with nothing held back. Admirable, but mistaken." There's also the fact that he had all those LOS men just watching there idly. He wanted to take on Bruce one on one and break him on his own, so there's that pride. It's that damaged pride that causes him to resort to nearly blowing his head off at the end there.

I just think Bane didn't deserve a grandiose death because that's exactly what he would've wanted. And that's a key theme in a movie that's largely centered around our hero choosing between dying a glorious death or living a normal life.

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Old 03-19-2013, 05:08 PM   #128
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

He was never going to grant Bruce a warrior's death in the first place, so I don't know why someone who bring up the whole shotgun incident anyways since Bane had an idea of just Bruce Wayne suffering inside the Pit.

Shooting him? I viewed that as Bane trying to get a cheap win simply because Batman had already won in many battles. Bruce Wayne climbed the Pit, Bane did not; Bruce Wayne broke Bane, Bane tried to break Bruce but did not succeed.

And as for honor...Bane did have honor, but it was towards Talia al Ghul. Different kind of honor; Bane just had it towards his true allies(and I say true because he did not care about Daggett or Selina Kyle).

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Old 03-19-2013, 05:08 PM   #129
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

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I don't think he lacked honor entirely. He was just extremely arrogant and never anticipated Bruce returning, never mind beating him, so at the end he got frustrated and wanted satisfaction. I think he also felt vulnerable and exposed after Talia's reveal.

But during the first fight, you can tell he has some sense of honor with a backhanded sort of respect for Bruce with lines like "You fight like a young man, with nothing held back. Admirable, but mistaken." There's also the fact that he had all those LOS men just watching there idly. He wanted to take on Bruce one on one and break him on his own, so there's that pride. It's that damaged pride that causes him to resort to nearly blowing his head off at the end there.

I just think Bane didn't deserve a grandiose death because that's exactly what he would've wanted. And that's a key theme in a movie that's largely centered around our hero choosing between dying a glorious death or living a normal life.
I sensed the mutual respect between them also.

"...But we are initiated; aren't we Bruce? Members of the League of Shadows. And you betrayed us".

Also the way Bane looked up at the Bat when it took off on the rooftop. Dude was hugely impressed:

"Your precious armory, gratefully accepted. We will need it".

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Old 03-19-2013, 05:13 PM   #130
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

Yeah, Bane had to respect Bruce on some level otherwise he wouldn't have taken so much pride in breaking him in the first place. I mean come on, rusty or not, he was the goddamn Batman! The man who defeated Ra's al Ghul. Bane knew who he was dealing with.

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Old 03-19-2013, 09:15 PM   #131
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Ehhh...Bane knew he was dealing with a Batman past his prime, though. Not the Batman that took down Ra's al Ghul.

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Old 03-19-2013, 09:26 PM   #132
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

Well, sure. Here's an analogy for you Anno...

Think of Bane as CM Punk, and Batman as an over the hill Austin (he even had the knee brace ). If Punk and Austin were ever to have a feud, I can imagine Punk still thinking that a win over Austin would be nice for his "best in the world" claims. You know?

I think it was the same for Bane. Bane already thinks of himself as the superior warrior, but breaking the Bat just kind of cements that he is THE man and that Ra's was wrong to favor Bruce in the first place.

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Old 03-19-2013, 09:32 PM   #133
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

Hahahaha, bringing in some of the two greatest guys from the company and I definitely get your point! Lol.

True, Bane probably thought by beating Batman that it would still give him something, but he did end up just beating a past his prime Batman as well.

That doesn't take away the notion that Bane could give Batman in his a prime a run for the money, though. Without his gauntlets, Batman still could have lost in their second round.

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Old 03-19-2013, 11:42 PM   #134
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

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Ehhh...Bane knew he was dealing with a Batman past his prime, though. Not the Batman that took down Ra's al Ghul.
Does "past his prime" mean age or injuries. Because I believe Bane was around 10 years older than him and vulnerable to his injuries as well.
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That doesn't take away the notion that Bane could give Batman in his a prime a run for the money, though. Without his gauntlets, Batman still could have lost in their second round.
He may have lost, but Bane seemed concerned when Batman started wailing on his mask.

Also, Bane took a chance and let Batman have free shots in the first fight. Had Batman targeted Bane's mask instead of his head and body, Bane could've lost.


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Old 03-20-2013, 12:36 AM   #135
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Does "past his prime" mean age or injuries. Because I believe Bane was around 10 years older than him and vulnerable to his injuries as well.
While Bane may indeed be much older, Bane was in top fighting shape while Bruce Wayne, while still having a somewhat bulky look, was just out of touch when he fought Bane the first time. His mind wasn't right at all or even focused. That makes Batman out of his prime, so my comment has nothing to do with age or injuries because Bruce could have very well stuck around Gotham City even after the events of TDKR.

And Bane was hardly vulnerable to his injuries while inhaling that medicine.

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He may have lost, but Bane seemed concerned when Batman started wailing on his mask.
Once Batman's gauntlet got a hold of one of those pipes, then Bane was worried. I didn't see any worried tendencies from Bane before that, though.

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Also, Bane took a chance and let Batman have free shots in the first fight. Had Batman targeted Bane's mask instead of his head and body, Bane could've lost.
Batman did target Bane's mask many times, but as I mentioned...it had nothing to do with Batman hitting the mask. It was all luck at the right moment where his gauntlet broke one of the pipes. Batman wouldn't be so lucky in the entire trilogy if it weren't for his gauntlets. He would have probably gotten himself killed by Bane, or before that he would have witnessed two boats full of criminals and civilians blow up or before that he would have been beaten by Ra's al Ghul and witnessed the destruction of himself, Ra's, Wayne Tower, the monorail and the entire Gotham City going nuts.

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Old 03-20-2013, 06:38 PM   #136
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

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While Bane may indeed be much older, Bane was in top fighting shape while Bruce Wayne, while still having a somewhat bulky look, was just out of touch when he fought Bane the first time. His mind wasn't right at all or even focused. That makes Batman out of his prime, so my comment has nothing to do with age or injuries because Bruce could have very well stuck around Gotham City even after the events of TDKR.
Fair enough.
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And Bane was hardly vulnerable to his injuries while inhaling that medicine.
He was if someone had knowledge and the fighting ability to pull it off. Had Batman knew about Bane before the first fight, I believe Batman would've beat him.
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Once Batman's gauntlet got a hold of one of those pipes, then Bane was worried. I didn't see any worried tendencies from Bane before that, though.
From what I saw in the 2nd fight, Batman initially countered Bane's attack. Then when they were on the steps, Batman started wailing on Bane's mask. To me, I believe if we heard what Bane was thinking, he'd be saying, "why does he keep hitting me on my mask? Does he know why weakness"? Then Bane grabs his hand right before Batman cuts it open.
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Batman did target Bane's mask many times, but as I mentioned...it had nothing to do with Batman hitting the mask. It was all luck at the right moment where his gauntlet broke one of the pipes.
I disagree. If you listen to the first fight, there are different sound effects which indicate that Batman is punching Bane's head. In the 2nd fight, you hear a "clicking" sound when he targets Bane's mask. But I believe Batman knew what he was doing when he broke Bane's mask. I don't believe it was luck. Batman set up that move.

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Old 03-20-2013, 07:31 PM   #137
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

Batman targeted the first mask in the first bout, but there wasn't a distinct sound of Batman's fist hitting the metal simply because the idea of what the mask is about is meant to be hidden until Bruce found out what's so important about the mask, but Batman DID hit at Bane's mask in their sewers bout.

And I still view grabbing unto a pipe using his gauntlet pure luck. Batman was moving his arm back that had his gauntlet slice one of the pipes out of its socket. It didn't seem like it was planned out at all compared to Batman shooting his blades at Joker in TDK or breaking Ra's al Ghul's sword in BB.

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Old 03-20-2013, 07:31 PM   #138
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

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In the 2nd fight, you hear a "clicking" sound when he targets Bane's mask. But I believe Batman knew what he was doing when he broke Bane's mask. I don't believe it was luck. Batman set up that move.
I second this. You can hear the distinct "tinks" of metal on metal in the 2nd fight as Batman targets the mask - now knowing from the Pit that it holds the pain at bay - to weaken the mask and break it.

Jinx Anno - I agree that Batman was hitting Bane in the face in the sewer but the mask wasn't the direct target like the 2nd fight was - as indicated by the metal click/tink sound you can hear in the 2nd.

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Old 03-20-2013, 07:35 PM   #139
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^ That's my point. The mask was the target and the importance is now known, while in the first fight, no sound was heard because the mask wasn't supposed to be important then. What was important was Batman just thinking he could beat this "thug".

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Old 03-20-2013, 07:39 PM   #140
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Got it - I think we are arguing the same point. Though you say both grabbing the pipe was luck but that he targeted it too?

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Old 03-20-2013, 07:41 PM   #141
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The mask was the target of the second fight and that's why there is a sound added to when Batman punched it, but cutting the pipe was still a sign of luck to me.

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Old 03-20-2013, 07:42 PM   #142
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Got it. Guess I always thought it was an elbow that caught the pipe. I'd have to go back and watch.

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Old 03-20-2013, 08:50 PM   #143
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

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The mask was the target of the second fight and that's why there is a sound added to when Batman punched it, but cutting the pipe was still a sign of luck to me.

How was it luck if his intentions were to disable the mask?

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Old 03-20-2013, 10:27 PM   #144
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^ That's my point. The mask was the target and the importance is now known, while in the first fight, no sound was heard because the mask wasn't supposed to be important then. What was important was Batman just thinking he could beat this "thug".
I don't agree with that. If he was hitting the mask, you'd hear the sound. Even if it wasn't the main target. But I do agree with you that he was trying to knock Bane out or out-muscle him in the sewer. He was not going to do that by hitting him in the mask. His second fight with Bane was more strategic. It had to be or he would've lost again. That's why I believe he dismissed the mask and went for the head to knock him out.
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The mask was the target of the second fight and that's why there is a sound added to when Batman punched it, but cutting the pipe was still a sign of luck to me.
Watch it again. The move was set up. If he tried to swipe him with Bane looking at him, it can be dodged. Batman punches Bane in the face turning him to the side. Now that Bane can't see it coming, Batman uses the momentum of his initial punch to come back and cut Bane with the Gauntlet.


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Old 03-21-2013, 01:05 AM   #145
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I've seen the film like eleven times already from the theatre to my apartment, and it never once looked like Bruce did it on purpose. It was pure luck and the sound was amplified of Batman hitting the metal because that was the focus, unlike the sewers battle where the only sounds amplified were Bane walking and Bane beating on Batman. In the second fight, it's the other way around.

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Old 03-21-2013, 01:15 AM   #146
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Well, I think Bruce definitely intended to strike Bane in the face with his gauntlet. Whether or not he expected to sever the tubes on the mask is anyone's guess.

Side note, I love the look in Hardy's eyes the moment he realizes the mask is broken. Hardy is so friggin' great. Far and away the best screen villain of 2012.

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Old 03-21-2013, 01:16 AM   #147
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I'll go as far as saying he's the best villain in a CBM since Ledger's Joker.

Edit: Actually, I don't know...I really love Ozymandias as well, and Watchmen was after TDK.


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Old 03-21-2013, 01:19 AM   #148
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I'd be hard pressed to argue. Who's his competition? Red Skull, Loki, Whiplash, Hector Hammond, Lizard? Ozymandias from Watchmen? Out of any of those I'd say Loki is the only one even in the running.

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Old 03-21-2013, 01:22 AM   #149
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I said Ozymandias, haha. I love how the villain wins in the end.

Loki was meh, even if Tom was great in the role.

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Old 03-21-2013, 01:23 AM   #150
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Hardy was great in the film, easily tied for my second favourite villain of the series (tied with Eckhart's underrated performance as Harvey "Two Face" Dent) and tied with the same character as my second favourite villain in a comic book movie period.

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