"Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

[peterparker0077]

Originally Posted by Suzanne78

No, I said they'd look like dinosaurs, or old-fashioned, not that they hate women or minorities. I already said that I really love what MCU's done with the female characters. I'll also add that Marvel's been pretty good with racially diversifying their lineup as well, from Don Cheadle to Bautista and Hounsou. But they really need to do even more. What I meant by "look like dinosaurs" is that, when you look at the successes of female-led blockbusters this year and the fact that Catching Fire did even better than Iron Man 3 at the box office in 2013. Marvel Studios and Feige need to step up their game in regards to showcasing their superpowered women onscreen in more than (admittedly) major supporting roles.

Again, I do think you're misunderstanding my personal wants for racial/gender/sexual identity inclusion in media. I want more exposure for characters, more developing of stories that allow diverse characters to be showcased in these films.

Look at what Sleepy Hollow and Elementary are doing. They are featuring strong Asian and black women and men as the focal point for the shows, in genres that are heavily white/male-centric (sci-fi and detective/Sherlock Holmes). Now, I don't really watch Elementary, but I do plan on catching up with it very soon, but Sleepy Hollow is one of my favorite shows, and the plots that focus on Abbie and her sister Jenny are both focused on racial dynamics (Abbie and her connections to Ichabod) and non-racial dynamics (Abbie and Jenny's complicated histories as siblings). The creators of the show saw a chance to craft a story around race, gender and common tropes within the sci-fi genre and buddy cop genre and got themselves a hit. It's a modernization of the Ichabod Crane story, and it absolutely works like a charm!

I'm not even saying that Marvel has to tell an allegory about civil rights or racial discrimination or gender discrimination in their movies, but they do need to figure out ways to tweak the established formulas of their superhero movies to appeal to an even broader swath of the general audience. It's not about being PC; I don't even look at it like that. It's about, like I've said before, representation.

As for the "colorblind" argument, I definitely don't want to start anything or make assumptions about why one uses the term. But I do think it's applied to justify continued exclusion of marginalized groups from mainstream media. It's like different connotations of the same word - MLK Jr.'s definition of "colorblindness" isn't the same thing as a movie studio's definition of "color-blindedness".

It most certainly is PC police. About appealing to a broad audience? You never replied to my comments about shows that I have no racial or ethnic connection too, yet I still followed, watched, and enjoyed the shows because of their story. Sadly, people today are taught to look at race and sex first before anything else... exactly the opposite of what Martin Luther King wanted, and you have yourself, as well as Dr Cosmic, Xeno000, and cherokeesam, all provide great examples of this problem.

[Suzanne78]

Originally Posted by peterparker0077

It most certainly is PC police. About appealing to a broad audience? You never replied to my comments about shows that I have no racial or ethnic connection too, yet I still followed, watched, and enjoyed the shows because of their story. Sadly, people today are taught to look at race and sex first before anything else... exactly the opposite of what Martin Luther King wanted, and you have yourself, as well as Dr Cosmic, Xeno000, and cherokeesam, all provide great examples of this problem.

Definitely not going to get into a (super) heated debate over this, I want to keep the discussion civil.

That said, in the almost 70+ whatever years of television that's been produced, you did name the most well known mainstream black comedy show… that's practically thirty years old. Fat Albert is even older, and Fresh Prince is probably around twenty. The fact that you related to them is great. There are others, to be clear, but the fact that we can only cite a handful of successful mainstream shows that focused around non-white characters in the large history of television and film is not a great sign. And really, Native American, Hispanic, and Asian characters are pretty much invisible as leads.

There was a study done by USC earlier last year about representation in media. I'll leave it here for perusal: http://articles.latimes.com/2013/oct...ovies-20131030

We're going to disagree on the "colorblind" aspect, that much is clear. I stand by my argument that the conflation of MLK's colorblindedness and modern day colorblindedness are two very, very different things.

Inclusiveness, whether it be race, sexuality or gender, is the goal. Stronger representations of women, stronger representations of marginalized groups can only make products like comic book movies better. My goal is to find and tell stories about the underrepresented, so when we go to a CBM, there are more heroes who look like me and my son. To me, that is appealing to a "broad audience", beyond the white and male.

Why isn't that a worthy goal?

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by peterparker0077

It most certainly is PC police. About appealing to a broad audience? You never replied to my comments about shows that I have no racial or ethnic connection too, yet I still followed, watched, and enjoyed the shows because of their story. Sadly, people today are taught to look at race and sex first before anything else... exactly the opposite of what Martin Luther King wanted, and you have yourself, as well as Dr Cosmic, Xeno000, and cherokeesam, all provide great examples of this problem.

If you or anyone else can still enjoy the story of a black Kingpin, or a black Heimdall, or a white Bane, then why do you give a damn what color the actor/character is? That's the whole point of race-switching in adaptations ---- if the story and characterization still works, then why not change the ethnicity to fit (a)a more modern cross-section of the ethnic picture in 2014 instead of 1962, or (b)a great actor of color who is simply the best fit for the role?

The reason people like you are so resistant to race/gender swaps in comic book adaptations is because you think that the original representation is *dependent* on that particular color or sex. In the vast majority of cases, it *doesn't* apply. It doesn't matter one bit if Spider-Man is a white kid from Queens or a black latino kid from Brooklyn....Spider-Man isn't defined by race, he's defined by his character, his powers, and his city.

[Hunter Rider]

I've tried a couple of times already to direct this back on track guys but it seems I need to be less subtle.

This is the Black Widow as played by Scarlet Johansson thread, if you want to get into the whole race and gender equality stuff then find another thread for it please.

[Suzanne78]

Sorry HR Will do better!

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by Hunter Rider

I've tried a couple of times already to direct this back on track guys but it seems I need to be less subtle.

This is the Black Widow as played by Scarlet Johansson thread, if you want to get into the whole race and gender equality stuff then find another thread for it please.

Fair enough.

....Okay, why is Natasha Romanoff being played by an American actress instead of a Russian one....?!?!?

[The Caped Knight]

lol from Black Widow to Cinderella



http://www.insidethemagic.net/2011/0...ey-characters/

[DarthSkywalker]

Her hair looks so thin in the film. Every new shot makes it more apparent.

[xeno000]

Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker

Her hair looks so thin in the film. Every new shot makes it more apparent.

That's a wig, not Scarlett's real hair.

[Joeyjojo72]

Lol thinning hair? That's what you took away? Wow.

edit: Im very curious how much screen time she's getting in this. Will she be a legit partner for Cap throughout the film, or does that distinction go to the Falcon (either would be fine with me).

[DarthSkywalker]

Originally Posted by xeno000

That's a wig, not Scarlett's real hair.

Whatever it is, the hair style just doesn't look good imo.

Originally Posted by Joeyjojo72

Lol thinning hair? That's what you took away? Wow.

edit: Im very curious how much screen time she's getting in this. Will she be a legit partner for Cap throughout the film, or does that distinction go to the Falcon (either would be fine with me).

It has bugged me since I first saw it. So it is what my mind first goes to.

Also I am thinking Widow is his main "partner". Just from the trailer you can see there in a lot of different scenes together.

[xeno000]

It amazes me how many (mostly male) fans obsess over Scarlett Johansson's hairstyles. I don't give a damn what her hair looks like as long as it isn't a total mess. It's a superficial matter. The Black Widow's costume is more important than her hair, but even that isn't the paramount concern. The acting is. Johansson has given great performances in the role, which is what really matters.

[mkilban2]

After watching Avengers for the first time in awhile a few days ago it really stood out to me in the Cap/Widow scenes that they're a really good pair. It's going to be fun (no thread title pun intended) seeing them together again.

[Loki882]

Originally Posted by mkilban2

After watching Avengers for the first time in awhile a few days ago it really stood out to me in the Cap/Widow scenes that they're a really good pair. It's going to be fun (no thread title pun intended) seeing them together again.

"Steve, I consider it to be my patriotic duty to help you finally get laid?"

[Loki882]

Originally Posted by xeno000

It amazes me how many (mostly male) fans obsess over Scarlett Johansson's hairstyles. I don't give a damn what her hair looks like as long as it isn't a total mess. It's a superficial matter. The Black Widow's costume is more important than her hair, but even that isn't the paramount concern. The acting is. Johansson has given great performances in the role, which is what really matters.

Agreed.

[BobJM]

I hope she doesn't say "red in my ledger" again lol hopefully she finds a better way to talk about getting compromised

[DarthSkywalker]

Originally Posted by xeno000

It amazes me how many (mostly male) fans obsess over Scarlett Johansson's hairstyles. I don't give a damn what her hair looks like as long as it isn't a total mess. It's a superficial matter. The Black Widow's costume is more important than her hair, but even that isn't the paramount concern. The acting is. Johansson has given great performances in the role, which is what really matters.

Film is a visual medium. It all really matters imo.

She is Widow, and has been for awhile now. I know what to expect in terms of acting and characterization. I like her in the role. They charged her hair, and I don't think it is for the better. I simply commented on it.

This isn't an either or situation. I love Evans as Cap, but I still dislike the Avengers suit. If we were talking about his portray, I'd say fantastic. Talking about the First Avengers suit? Love it. Talking about the Avengers? Blah.

[Primal Slayer]

It is a bad wig. We would be saying the same if Cap looked awful with his hair or any of them. It is part of her overall look. Should've given her the ponytail.

[Ant-manic]

Originally Posted by BobJM

I hope she doesn't say "red in my ledger" again lol hopefully she finds a better way to talk about getting compromised

whenever she said it, i thought of heath ledger. then i got sad.

[Young Superman]

I have always been a fan of Black Widow (Natalia Romanova), and I love Scarlett's portrayal of her. My only complaint {and it's a minor one} is that she does not speak with a Russian accent.


P.S Is Black Widow ever going to get her own solo film?

[Bearcules]

Originally Posted by Young Superman

My only complaint {and it's a minor one} is that she does not speak with a Russian accent.

In the comics she speaks several languages (including English) fluently and without accent. I see no reason to add that for her movie iteration.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by Bearcules

In the comics she speaks several languages (including English) fluently and without accent. I see no reason to add that for her movie iteration.

Yeah, video games and cartoons tend to give Natasha a Russian accent just to emphasize, "hey, she's Russian." But logically, after being an American for decades, there'd be no accent at all. Plus, I'd think that disguising/manipulating foreign accents would be a basic part of any secret agent's toolkit.

[Young Superman]

Good point.

[Suzanne78]

Basically, if they gave her her own movie, they should just market it as "the female James Bond." I can't think of anything in the marketplace that occupies that niche.

Female James Bond or Female Jason Bourne, but without the memory loss might work.

[Loki882]

When I saw Angelina Jolie's Salt (good movie btw), I couldn't help thinking that that would have been a good plot for a BW movie if you just Jolie out for her. Even the whole "Russian sleeper agent having to deal with other sleeper agents left over from the Cold War" thing fits BW.