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View Poll Results: How do you feel about Wally's return?
I'm super excited! About time! 9 24.32%
I'm happy to hear it. 7 18.92%
I'm indifferent either way. 8 21.62%
I'm not so sure if I like this... 2 5.41%
I hate it. 11 29.73%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-14-2014, 08:26 AM   #1
cleverusername8
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Default Wally West debuts in the New 52

http://www.newsarama.com/20031-wally...tive-team.html

I'm sure the news has made its way around, but I'm wondering what people think.

Is this another case of a comic company caving towards vocal fans? Do you think they'll do a good job with the character? The track record for reimagined characters in this universe hasn't been well received overall (it seems).

What I'm more interested in is what this will mean for the rest of the Flash family - namely Barry. DC poured so much into trying to make him and Hal Jordan "cool again" in their respective hero roles. It seems to have succeeded with Hal, but people have been crying for Wally nonstop and Barry Allen hatred seems to be at its peak (presumably for "usurping" Wally's speedster throne).

I love the Flash family and like to think that I enjoy them all equally, but the thing that worries me is the potential of Barry dropping off of the map again. Assuming this Annual #3 sells really well, it's likely that Wally will get his own book. If Wally proves to be super popular again, I can't imagine DC would pursue two Flashes at the same time. Jay Garrick is a different story since he's embedded in the Earth Two family of stories.

If Wally becomes 'The Flash' again, I feel like that'll spell the end for Barry's short return. He'll either end up dead, a background character, or retired from superhero'ing all together. It'd really be a shame to watch that happen. Maybe it would have been best to leave him dead and keep him as Wally's analogy to Peter Parker's Uncle Ben.

Of course, it's very possible that I'm just paranoid. I'm interested in hearing other thoughts.


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Old 01-14-2014, 09:50 AM   #2
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Default Re: Wally West debuts in the New 52

I DIDNT KNOW HE WASNT AROUND.......meh

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Old 01-14-2014, 10:05 AM   #3
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Default Re: Wally West debuts in the New 52


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Old 01-14-2014, 10:16 AM   #4
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Default Re: Wally West debuts in the New 52

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Originally Posted by HighFivingMF View Post
He reminds me of the Paradox Reapers from DC Universe Online for some reason. They're beings of pure energy that materialize from ruptures in the Speed Force. It'd be interesting if that's the angle they're coming from with the character since the annual issue is said to explain "where he's been".

The costume isn't horrible. But it's hard to judge when it's overlaid onto such a busy background :/

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Old 01-14-2014, 12:40 PM   #5
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Default Re: Wally West debuts in the New 52

Interesting news
Think this might be good news

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Old 01-14-2014, 02:12 PM   #6
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Default Re: Wally West debuts in the New 52

Quote:
Originally Posted by cleverusername8 View Post
http://www.newsarama.com/20031-wally...tive-team.html

I'm sure the news has made its way around, but I'm wondering what people think.

Is this another case of a comic company caving towards vocal fans? Do you think they'll do a good job with the character? The track record for reimagined characters in this universe hasn't been well received overall (it seems).

What I'm more interested in is what this will mean for the rest of the Flash family - namely Barry. DC poured so much into trying to make him and Hal Jordan "cool again" in their respective hero roles. It seems to have succeeded with Hal, but people have been crying for Wally nonstop and Barry Allen hatred seems to be at its peak (presumably for "usurping" Wally's speedster throne).

I love the Flash family and like to think that I enjoy them all equally, but the thing that worries me is the potential of Barry dropping off of the map again. Assuming this Annual #3 sells really well, it's likely that Wally will get his own book. If Wally proves to be super popular again, I can't imagine DC would pursue two Flashes at the same time. Jay Garrick is a different story since he's embedded in the Earth Two family of stories.

If Wally becomes 'The Flash' again, I feel like that'll spell the end for Barry's short return. He'll either end up dead, a background character, or retired from superhero'ing all together. It'd really be a shame to watch that happen. Maybe it would have been best to leave him dead and keep him as Wally's analogy to Peter Parker's Uncle Ben.

Of course, it's very possible that I'm just paranoid. I'm interested in hearing other thoughts.
I don't think Barry Allen is hated at all, I love the character and he is my favorite Flash, I hope he won't be sidelined in favor of Wally. Even though I haven't been a fan of everything they've done with Barry what with the whole murder thing and all and would prefer him not to have death in his origin like every other character, I still like the current books a good bit and it would be a shame if they ditched him. Wally is just a poor man's Barry Allen anyway, certainly was since the mid nineties and the last time we saw him what with the reporter wife, twins, police job, etc. Unless this Wally is vastly different from what he used to be I see no purpose in having him back.

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Old 01-14-2014, 03:30 PM   #7
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Default Re: Wally West debuts in the New 52

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Wally is just a poor man's Barry Allen anyway, certainly was since the mid nineties and the last time we saw him what with the reporter wife, twins, police job, etc.
What an absurd statement.

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Old 01-14-2014, 04:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: Wally West debuts in the New 52

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I don't think Barry Allen is hated at all, I love the character and he is my favorite Flash, I hope he won't be sidelined in favor of Wally. Even though I haven't been a fan of everything they've done with Barry what with the whole murder thing and all and would prefer him not to have death in his origin like every other character, I still like the current books a good bit and it would be a shame if they ditched him. Wally is just a poor man's Barry Allen anyway, certainly was since the mid nineties and the last time we saw him what with the reporter wife, twins, police job, etc. Unless this Wally is vastly different from what he used to be I see no purpose in having him back.
It's hard to mention Barry anywhere on forums (namely ComicBookResources, but there are others) without Wally West fans jumping all over the character and saying that he's dull, outdated, and better off dead. It's this same vocal fan group that clamored for Wally's return so hard which I think could be part of the cause for this.

Now, calling Wally a "poor man's Barry Allen" isn't fair in my mind. I wholeheartedly agree with his fanbase in that he really took the Flash mantle and (for the lack of better phrasing) ran with it. He made meaningful contributions to the legacy and really developed into a great character. One thing I don't like about Pre-Flashpoint Wally is how overpowered he got. Speed stealing and the infinite mass punch have their applications, but they're also kind of game breaking. Part of what contributes to DC's bad rap of having ridiculously powerful characters. But everything outside of that was great in my mind.

I voted that I'm happy to learn this news, because I legitimately am. However, I'm also worried that the balance between Wally and Barry fanatics is so off that it could skew sales and possibly influence DC to boot Barry once again. But I fully admit to my paranoia.

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Old 01-14-2014, 05:22 PM   #9
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Default Re: Wally West debuts in the New 52

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I don't think Barry Allen is hated at all, I love the character and he is my favorite Flash, I hope he won't be sidelined in favor of Wally.
Completely agreed with this

Quote:
Wally is just a poor man's Barry Allen anyway, certainly was since the mid nineties and the last time we saw him what with the reporter wife, twins, police job, etc. Unless this Wally is vastly different from what he used to be I see no purpose in having him back.
To be fair, Wally's wife is from the present, not the future, and she changed her field of study sometime in her life
Wally is a mechanic, and his father is a Manhunter robot from the Guardians (post crisis retcon)
Barry did not have sex with a married woman (that is not his wife)
Wally can't phase through surfaces

And you forgot or neglected two common points:
*They were both fans of a previous Flash before getting their powers
*Same way of getting powers
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What an absurd statement.
It covers the commonalities between these two Flashes, not a fully absurd statement

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Old 01-14-2014, 07:06 PM   #10
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Default Re: Wally West debuts in the New 52

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What an absurd statement.
Well... They did turn him into a police scientist with a reporter wife who had super speed powers that he utilized under the guise of The Flash.

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Old 01-14-2014, 07:39 PM   #11
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Default Re: Wally West debuts in the New 52

YES! Welcome back, Wally!


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Old 01-14-2014, 07:50 PM   #12
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Default Re: Wally West debuts in the New 52

van jensen is so good tbqh

we like it

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Old 01-14-2014, 08:01 PM   #13
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Default Re: Wally West debuts in the New 52

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YES! Welcome back, Wally!

That's Barry Allen, and I'm pretty sure the "Wally" they've "brought back" won't be the one you're hoping for, much like the "Barry" they "brought back" in Rebirth wasn't the same one I was hoping for... (he wasn't the same one that showed up in Final Crisis, anyway - THAT was Barry Allen - but I digress, Johns still did some pretty awesome things outside of the murdered mum thing in Flash: Rebirth, things that made sense of a lot of things that didn't make sense before).

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Old 01-14-2014, 08:49 PM   #14
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I have been waiting three years for this! Look, I get that there are Barry Allen fans, but Wally is mine and many others favorite Flash. For that reason he should come back, there's room for both. Just ditch Bart.

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Old 01-14-2014, 08:56 PM   #15
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Default Re: Wally West debuts in the New 52

Its like Kevin Smith said, this Wally probably won't be as good, and definitely not the same, as the Wally fans are expecting. I'm curious to see what they do, but I'm not keeping my hopes up. Could turn out fantastic and different, could be like New 52's Tim Drake...a character that did NOT transition well into this changed continuity.

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Old 01-14-2014, 09:02 PM   #16
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Default Re: Wally West debuts in the New 52

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YES! Welcome back, Wally!

This one is Barry. This is from the upcoming issue that they're writing for him now. The first picture posted in the thread is the new Wally.

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Old 01-14-2014, 09:11 PM   #17
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I don't care if he's a little different, it's still Wally. The one in Young Justice was different but still at his core Wally. The new 52 Barry is a little different but still Barry. And even Tim.

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Old 01-14-2014, 09:11 PM   #18
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I have been waiting three years for this! Look, I get that there are Barry Allen fans, but Wally is mine and many others favorite Flash. For that reason he should come back, there's room for both. Just ditch Bart.
Sorry for the double post (forgot about multiquote), but kicking Bart out doesn't fix anything.

My vision is for a unified Flash family where they all can exist without anyone's camp getting riled up and pushing another's out of continuity. I read the first seven or so issues of Teen Titans and actually really like this Bart. He's not quite what he was in Impulse days back in the Young Justice comic series, but I definitely like him a lot. And I like the character in general. He has so much potential to surpass Barry, Wally, and even the Zooms if he focused his skills and got serious about being a speedster. If Barry or Wally are going to be shafted in their Flash roles for any reason, I'd want it to be because Bart rose up to the task and earned it from them. Before I get any further into rant mode, I'll stop. But the bottom line is, no Flash family member need be left behind. Sadly, sentiment doesn't keep characters afloat - sales do. And Wally as Flash won't hurt Bart if he's Kid Flash.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I picked up the first three issues of JLA: Year One and immediately bought the rest of the series after finishing them. The way they portray Barry in that story is the way he should be everywhere in my opinion. I think Mark Waid has the magic touch with Flashes. If only they had gotten him to handle Flash's re-imagining in the New 52 :/

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Old 01-14-2014, 09:12 PM   #19
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Also, I don't think anyone needs to worry about Barry. He's back for good, I mean they're not going to get rid of him while he's starring in his own TV show.

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Old 01-14-2014, 09:14 PM   #20
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It's hard to mention Barry anywhere on forums (namely ComicBookResources, but there are others) without Wally West fans jumping all over the character and saying that he's dull, outdated, and better off dead. It's this same vocal fan group that clamored for Wally's return so hard which I think could be part of the cause for this.
It may be difficult for them to swallow, but they are in the minority. Wally's book was kind of crappy up to the time right before Rebirth and before he was replaced with Bart Allen (if they're honest with themselves they'll agree, the Wally in those books wasn't the Wally that was a great character in the early 90s). The last 10, 15 years have been a bumpy time for the title in general, but those people that say Barry is "dull, outdated", and "better off dead" are deluded. Wally is almost as old a character Barry is, for one thing, and no character, especially one like Barry Allen, is better off dead, unless that's the purpose they were created for (like Uncle Ben, the Waynes, etc - Barry doesn't fall in that category at all).

They should just be careful what they wish for...New 52 Wally may not be at all what they're thinking, in fact, it's almost guaranteed to not be, IMO. I don't think they should have omitted the character but rather let him have his own place in the DCU with his own costume and possibly even separate identity, a la Nightwing, and the universe wide reboot that was the New 52 would have been the perfect place to do that, but to tell you the truth I would have rather seen them get rid of that damn collar on Superman before they bring Wally West back.

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I wholeheartedly agree with his fanbase in that he really took the Flash mantle and (for the lack of better phrasing) ran with it. He made meaningful contributions to the legacy and really developed into a great character.
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What an absurd statement.
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Originally Posted by cleverusername8 View Post
Now, calling Wally a "poor man's Barry Allen" isn't fair in my mind.

True, Wally is a good character and some great stories were told with him, namely the whole Return of Barry Allen storyarc from the 90s (even though Mark Waid intentionally portrayed Barry as a cardboard cutout and gave him a Jameson haircut in that story when he could have written him as an actual person/engaging character as he did later in his career, but I understand he was trying to win people over for his cause at the time, even if I disliked the handling), and Wally is at his best when he is written as differently from Barry Allen as possible, particularly if he's going to be calling himself The Flash - this means no secret identity (sans Teen Titans days), police job (I don't care if he works on police cars or not, this was the closest thing Johns could do to make Wally like Barry when he wrote the title (giving him a secret identity and police job), I say have him be a mechanic somewhere else, I don't care, but don't have him work at a police station), no reporter girlfriend/wife, no superpowered twins, no Kid Flash of his own, no Reverse Flash of his own, and maybe get him his own costume, his on origin would be great too. Now there was a time in the early 90s when Wally was written pretty differently from Barry Allen (even though he had a few of those things I mentioned) and they were telling stories with him that could NOT be told with Barry Allen - and that was just about every story prior to the Return of Barry Allen arc. The great thing about Wally was that he had that whole living in the shadow of Barry Allen thing he had to overcome, that's what made him a compelling character, some might see it as a double edged sword in a way as it makes Wally very codependent on Barry Allen as a character, but if you're honest with yourself Wally is pretty codependent on Barry Allen as a character to begin with (his origin, costume, Rogues, etc) , so this is moot to me, but the "living in the shadow of" thing is what gave Wally a great dynamic unique among superheroes. The minute you take that away or the character "surpasses" that, he gets closer to just being Barry Allen with each minute. Think about it. Take that away, and what story could possibly be told with Wally West that can't be told with Barry Allen? NONE. They're all practically interchangeable, which is especially obvious as you look at Johns' Flash run (which if you know the behind the scenes stuff it makes sense as Johns wanted to write Barry Allen since he was a kid, and it's too bad for us that he didn't get to do that right off the bat, because all the Wally stories he told were damn near perfect versions of what contemporary Barry Allen stories would play like, it's a shame he felt the need to add the whole dead mother angle when he finally did get to write Barry - but I digress, there is a part of me that finds it interesting only because of the time travel thing, but without that novelty I absolutely HATE that edition to Barry Allen because it makes him like EVERY other hero who has a death in their story that inspired/motivated them to do something - hell, I'd say the murder origin they gave him is darker than Batman's, at least Bruce's father didn't "kill" his mother (allegedly - I know Thawne did it but still)).

So take the "living in Barry's shadow" dynamic away and Wally as Flash is essentially Barry Allen as Flash as far as originality and story standpoint goes.

Even on JL/JLU, this is what he is, essentially (although his personality is neither Barry nor Wally and is more comparable to Bart as they were going to use Impulse originally because they wanted more juvenile characters, but instead just transferred this into their Flash, along with much of their own input, the JL/JLU Flash was very much its own thing, Wally in the comics was written as much more intelligent and serious than the idiot they made him out to be in some of the JL/JLU moments).

Quote:
One thing I don't like about Pre-Flashpoint Wally is how overpowered he got. Speed stealing and the infinite mass punch have their applications, but they're also kind of game breaking. Part of what contributes to DC's bad rap of having ridiculously powerful characters. But everything outside of that was great in my mind.
Well they did that when they introduced the whole Speed Force thing, all that was just done as a way to make Wally look "superior" to Barry Allen as whoever headlines The Flash title has to be the "most powerful/fastest/god flash", it's just par for the course, IMO.

Quote:
I voted that I'm happy to learn this news, because I legitimately am. However, I'm also worried that the balance between Wally and Barry fanatics is so off that it could skew sales and possibly influence DC to boot Barry once again. But I fully admit to my paranoia.
Well I really hope they don't boot Barry again, there is still so much potential with the character that has yet to be utilized so it would be a shame to see him go so soon when they've barely scratched the surface of what could be done with him, IMO - but I'm happy they're going to incorporate Wally in some way, even though Barry is my favorite, I'm just interested to see where it will go and how...and a little apprehensive to be honest. I don't expect anything to be the way it used to be, which could potentially be good but also potentially be a lot worse, I have my fingers crossed very hard, as I have for much of what's been done in the New 52 (The Flash title being the best thing to come of it so far, IMO).


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Completely agreed with this

To be fair, Wally's wife is from the present, not the future, and she changed her field of study sometime in her life
Wally is a mechanic, and his father is a Manhunter robot from the Guardians (post crisis retcon)
Barry did not have sex with a married woman (that is not his wife)
(Wally's father Post Crisis was also supposedly abusive if I remember (pre Crisis they were pretty cool), while Barry's parents were awesome originally) Linda, like Iris, is first and foremost best known as a tv reporter. Whether it was intentional or not I thought it was stupid to give Wally a love interest just like Barry's...but I guess it shouldn't be a surprise when he had all these things like Barry as well:

- Same origin (just miniaturized)
- Same costume (beginning of his career, and then later on)
- Same Rogues
- Superpowered Twins
- a Kid Flash of his own
- a Reverse Flash of his own
- upped power level
- police job

If it's not the same, it's very, VERY close, they even provide similar dynamics to the JLA most of the time.

Sans the "living in Barry's shadow", there's nothing really you can tell with Wally (as he was) that you could not tell with Barry, they're practically redundant - even Hal and Kyle have less similarities.

Quote:
Wally can't phase through surfaces
Not at first but he was eventually able to.

Quote:
And you forgot or neglected two common points:
*They were both fans of a previous Flash before getting their powers
Except Barry was a fan of a comic book that featured a fictitious character as far as he was concerned and was more inspired by the idea of him, not taking over for him directly or becoming his protege (Barry forged his own identity, outfit, etc), and Wally was a fan of someone who actually existed in real life to him. Not quite the same, but still similar, I agree.

Quote:
*Same way of getting powers
It covers the commonalities between these two Flashes, not a fully absurd statement
Yeah, thank you, they are very similar, I don't think it's absurd at all to say Wally was a poor man's Barry Allen - BUT, and this is where I'm hoping the New 52 will do some positive, they have an opportunity to change all that here in the reboot and make him as different from Barry Allen as possible from the ground up: different origin, different costume, different job, different love interest (as far as occupation goes at least), maybe even slightly different powers. They could even use the Speed Force for them, like I liked what Johns did with Wally's origin in Flash: Rebirth, he didn't really retcon anything he just explained it in a way, it was stated there that the "accident" that gave Wally his powers was really no accident at all, and that he was struck by the lightning because Barry Allen generated it and made it happen, unconsciously - something he made possible when the accident that gave him his powers created the Speed Force (I thought it was a good try for an explanation anyway...), the Speed Force being the all encompassing Flasg Fact that spans all of space and time, the accident that gave Barry his powers being the cause/catalyst for it (I thought that was pretty mind blowingly awesome).


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Old 01-14-2014, 09:24 PM   #21
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I have been waiting three years for this! Look, I get that there are Barry Allen fans, but Wally is mine and many others favorite Flash. For that reason he should come back, there's room for both. Just ditch Bart.
Lol. Yeah, **** Bart. Kidding, I just didn't like him as Flash - he works best as Impulse, possibly graduating to Kid Flash - MAYBE, but that's all he should be, IMO.

And I waited the entire time I became a Flash fan for them to bring Barry back and do some new Barry stories (about 7 years).

And I agree, there is room for all, I was really hoping they'd include all of them after Barry was brought back, have Barry as the main Flash, Wally as his own Flash identity (the costume he has on in your avvy would be ideal), etc.

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I don't care if he's a little different, it's still Wally. The one in Young Justice was different but still at his core Wally. The new 52 Barry is a little different but still Barry. And even Tim.
YJ Wally is the closest they've ever come to getting Wally right outside of comics. YJ was great in its handling of The Flash family in general, I loved their take on Barry Allen especially, great voice actor for him, IMO, and they did great with Wally as well. I also liked what they did with Impulse.


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Old 01-14-2014, 09:28 PM   #22
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I don't think Wally is interchangeable with Barry at all. He's different from Barry in the same way Dick was different as Batman from Bruce. The Geoff Johns run would not have played out the same with Barry because they have completely different personalities. To make a Marvel comparison, Wally is the Peter Parker to Barry's Steve Rogers.

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Old 01-14-2014, 09:28 PM   #23
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On a somewhat unrelated note, I picked up the first three issues of JLA: Year One and immediately bought the rest of the series after finishing them. The way they portray Barry in that story is the way he should be everywhere in my opinion. I think Mark Waid has the magic touch with Flashes. If only they had gotten him to handle Flash's re-imagining in the New 52 :/
Waid was on top of his game with JLA: Year One, all around great read, I loved how Barry was portrayed there. Much different from how Waid portrayed him in The Flash book in the early 90s - Waid is a mixed bag for me and Flash. I liked a lot of his Wally West stuff, but I hated some of the retcons he did, like Cobalt Blue and crap like that, that was terrible.

Fortunately he made up for a lot of it with JLA Year One and to a lesser extent Flash & GL: Brave & the Bold, and of course all of his Superman stories, but I do agree he is a great writer and I enjoy most of the things I've read of his. Also a nice guy in real life, or he was when I met him at least.

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Old 01-14-2014, 09:33 PM   #24
Kevin Smith
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Default Re: Wally West debuts in the New 52

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Must everything be Barry vs Wally? I have a long list of reasons of why I prefer Wally, and I don't see how he's interchangeable with Barry at all. He's different from Barry in the same way Dick was different as Batman from Bruce. The Geoff Johns run would not have played out the same with Barry because they have completely different personalities. To make a Marvel comparison, Wally is the Peter Parker to Barry's Steve Rogers.

I never got the Wally to Peter Parker comparison, Wally was never a nerd or a science major...I think that applies to Barry Allen more as far as speedsters go. The only similarities between Peter Parker and Wally that I can definitely note is that they were both young(er) when they were superheroes (well, Wally was very young when he became Kid Flash, younger than Peter was when he got his powers by a few years), of course Barry was young too (24) but was almost ten years older than Peter was when he got his powers.


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Old 01-14-2014, 09:34 PM   #25
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Default Re: Wally West debuts in the New 52

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Also, I don't think anyone needs to worry about Barry. He's back for good, I mean they're not going to get rid of him while he's starring in his own TV show.
I really hope not.

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