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Old 05-07-2013, 12:58 AM   #201
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john lennon is actually a walrus.
lol.

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Old 05-07-2013, 01:57 AM   #202
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

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A fact that can easily be retconned. Not saying it will, I just really, really hope it is.

Personally, I'm surprised people made a bigger deal out of Dr. Doom. This is Galacticloud levels of character betrayal. While I found it funny and interesting, it was very lame and a waste.
IM3's take on The Mandarin was developed with the full support of Kevin Feige and others, so it's not a 'character betrayal' in any way; it's a new take on the character, and just because you didn't care for it doesn't mean it was a wrong decision.

BTW, a version of The Mandarin character that was closer to the comics was originally included in IM1, but removed when Feige and others realized that the character wasn't working.

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Old 05-07-2013, 02:13 AM   #203
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

I thought it was an interesting twist, but I can see why fans are pissed.

It's like finding out in the Dark Knight that Joker isn't real, but just an internet meme come to life.

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Old 05-07-2013, 03:05 AM   #204
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

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John Lennon is actually a walrus.
I thought he was a beetle, but whatever...

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Old 05-07-2013, 03:57 AM   #205
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:36 AM   #206
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

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I thought it was an interesting twist, but I can see why fans are pissed.

It's like finding out in the Dark Knight that Joker isn't real, but just an internet meme come to life.
Or that he's Ronald McDonald.

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Old 05-07-2013, 03:40 PM   #207
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

awesome image, you make that yourself project862006??

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Old 05-07-2013, 05:37 PM   #208
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I am glad that I read the spoiler before seeing the movie. Honestly, at first I was really disappointed, and thought it was a stupid move. I thought Mandarin was Iron Man's big baddie, and shouldn't have been tarnished.

Then I realized while watching the film...it wasn't that I even like the mandarin all that much, but just that I don't really like many of Iron Man's other villains, and Mandarin was one of they few who was powerful and not in a suit of armor or just other technology.

I'm glad they featured a villain that was different, and kept even the comic book fans guessing. It was a funny twist, and a ballsy twist. To each their own, I understand if you love the mandarin and are offended, but I liked it.

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Old 05-07-2013, 10:52 PM   #209
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

I liked the movie overall, I had some issues with it, but my biggest is the Mandarin thing. I too found out a few weeks before seeing it, thankfully. I would have been PISSED in theaters.

I don't like or dislike comic Mandarin. He's okay. I do however, LOVE what I saw in the trailers and the clip in terms of look, portrayal and I dug the voice like crazy. I loved in the teaser "some people call me a terrorist, I consider myself a teacher." He sounded so intimidating, authoritative, and pompous. He looked scary as well. I liked all the backstory I was hearing from the interviews. I also liked having the idea that he was behind Tony's initial capture or at least part of that group (Ten Rings and all). Then I saw that clip where he has that guy held hostage and I just thought it was so well done. I really liked the coldness to his eyes and voice when he casually claims "I'm sure he's a really good guy.......I'm gonna shoot him in the head." It was so amazing to me and I was so pumped! He looked like a new top villain like Joker or Magneto. Then I heard about this twist and suddenly I was just empty inside about the Mandarin. I couldn't believe it. But, I hoped when I saw the movie I'd accept it.
I didn't. I think at the point when he talked about blowing up that building in his first video and was like "I-I-did that." I knew it wasn't going to be a good move for me. I loved every one of his videos. They were creepy, mysterious, well-shot, well acted and scripted. I loved his twisted villain logic. I also really liked the part where he has all these kids coming up to him and he's like...blessing them with his hands out.

I mean, I really did think Kingsley was funny. He was. I just feel they wasted such a great villain. He was turning out to be so good for me and then they turned him into a joke which infuriates me. It really hurt the movie for me. Not to the point where it's ruined, like I said I do like it. It could have been so much more with Mandarin just staying Mandarin.

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Old 05-08-2013, 10:43 AM   #210
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

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I am glad that I read the spoiler before seeing the movie. Honestly, at first I was really disappointed, and thought it was a stupid move. I thought Mandarin was Iron Man's big baddie, and shouldn't have been tarnished.

Then I realized while watching the film...it wasn't that I even like the mandarin all that much, but just that I don't really like many of Iron Man's other villains, and Mandarin was one of they few who was powerful and not in a suit of armor or just other technology.

I'm glad they featured a villain that was different, and kept even the comic book fans guessing. It was a funny twist, and a ballsy twist. To each their own, I understand if you love the mandarin and are offended, but I liked it.
Here's the funny part, I agree with this.

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Old 05-08-2013, 10:43 AM   #211
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I liked the movie overall, I had some issues with it, but my biggest is the Mandarin thing. I too found out a few weeks before seeing it, thankfully. I would have been PISSED in theaters.

I don't like or dislike comic Mandarin. He's okay. I do however, LOVE what I saw in the trailers and the clip in terms of look, portrayal and I dug the voice like crazy. I loved in the teaser "some people call me a terrorist, I consider myself a teacher." He sounded so intimidating, authoritative, and pompous. He looked scary as well. I liked all the backstory I was hearing from the interviews. I also liked having the idea that he was behind Tony's initial capture or at least part of that group (Ten Rings and all). Then I saw that clip where he has that guy held hostage and I just thought it was so well done. I really liked the coldness to his eyes and voice when he casually claims "I'm sure he's a really good guy.......I'm gonna shoot him in the head." It was so amazing to me and I was so pumped! He looked like a new top villain like Joker or Magneto. Then I heard about this twist and suddenly I was just empty inside about the Mandarin. I couldn't believe it. But, I hoped when I saw the movie I'd accept it.
I didn't. I think at the point when he talked about blowing up that building in his first video and was like "I-I-did that." I knew it wasn't going to be a good move for me. I loved every one of his videos. They were creepy, mysterious, well-shot, well acted and scripted. I loved his twisted villain logic. I also really liked the part where he has all these kids coming up to him and he's like...blessing them with his hands out.

I mean, I really did think Kingsley was funny. He was. I just feel they wasted such a great villain. He was turning out to be so good for me and then they turned him into a joke which infuriates me. It really hurt the movie for me. Not to the point where it's ruined, like I said I do like it. It could have been so much more with Mandarin just staying Mandarin.
And this

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Old 05-08-2013, 09:19 PM   #212
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

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IM3's take on The Mandarin was developed with the full support of Kevin Feige and others, so it's not a 'character betrayal' in any way; it's a new take on the character
By that logic you can basically do anything you want and it's just a 'new take'.

I think that, generally speaking, the creators should be free to take risks like they did with The Mandarin. It's definitely a choice, and not made out of ignorance.

But I can understand the people crying 'betrayal'. It's a new take, yes, but one with apparently no roots in comics.

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Old 05-12-2013, 11:20 PM   #213
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

Killian's proclamation of being The Mandarin really has no context...what the hell does the moniker even mean?

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Old 05-15-2013, 08:44 PM   #214
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

I do wonder what the point of the captain America shield tattoo on his neck was. They showed it in the trailer and clearly someone thought it added something to the character. But it was never really addressed in the movie.

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Old 05-15-2013, 09:27 PM   #215
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

In an interview - I think it was with Empire - the creative team explained that it is not entirely Cap's shield, but, one with an A (for anarchy) in the centre. It is supposed to represent the over-saturation the MCU-world had with the Avengers and how the Mandarin (and to an extent, villains,) represent a perversion of the heroic ideal. Hence, it turns the Mandarin into something else: the ideal image of a villain, Kingsley/Slaterly, is subverted by the true villain: the handsome (in the filmic context, the idealized and sexualized surface: muscled, blonde haired and blue eyed), successful businessman, Killian.

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Old 05-16-2013, 11:56 AM   #216
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

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In an interview - I think it was with Empire - the creative team explained that it is not entirely Cap's shield, but, one with an A (for anarchy) in the centre. It is supposed to represent the over-saturation the MCU-world had with the Avengers and how the Mandarin (and to an extent, villains,) represent a perversion of the heroic ideal. Hence, it turns the Mandarin into something else: the ideal image of a villain, Kingsley/Slaterly, is subverted by the true villain: the handsome (in the filmic context, the idealized and sexualized surface: muscled, blonde haired and blue eyed), successful businessman, Killian.
After seeing the movie and then seeing the picture I assumed they were just going to have Trevor revealed be a fan of the Avengers

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Old 05-17-2013, 11:47 PM   #217
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

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Killian's proclamation of being The Mandarin really has no context...what the hell does the moniker even mean?
Ya, I really wish they went into what being 'The Mandarin' meant.

I would have at least liked some build up of rumors or something.

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Old 05-18-2013, 12:46 PM   #218
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

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Ya, I really wish they went into what being 'The Mandarin' meant.

I would have at least liked some build up of rumors or something.
I'm sure more will come to light. Especially if Killian had ties to HYDRA, which seems to be around still

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Old 05-18-2013, 01:58 PM   #219
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

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BTW, a version of The Mandarin character that was closer to the comics was originally included in IM1, but removed when Feige and others realized that the character wasn't working.
"Realized" and "Decided" are two different things.
With all these people defending the change, I'm starting to wonder if the changes made to Bane cause more of an out pour amongst the SHH community. I know Doom did.

....deadpool as well.

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Old 05-19-2013, 03:38 PM   #220
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

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I liked the movie overall, I had some issues with it, but my biggest is the Mandarin thing. I too found out a few weeks before seeing it, thankfully. I would have been PISSED in theaters.

I don't like or dislike comic Mandarin. He's okay. I do however, LOVE what I saw in the trailers and the clip in terms of look, portrayal and I dug the voice like crazy. I loved in the teaser "some people call me a terrorist, I consider myself a teacher." He sounded so intimidating, authoritative, and pompous. He looked scary as well. I liked all the backstory I was hearing from the interviews. I also liked having the idea that he was behind Tony's initial capture or at least part of that group (Ten Rings and all). Then I saw that clip where he has that guy held hostage and I just thought it was so well done. I really liked the coldness to his eyes and voice when he casually claims "I'm sure he's a really good guy.......I'm gonna shoot him in the head." It was so amazing to me and I was so pumped! He looked like a new top villain like Joker or Magneto. Then I heard about this twist and suddenly I was just empty inside about the Mandarin. I couldn't believe it. But, I hoped when I saw the movie I'd accept it.
I didn't. I think at the point when he talked about blowing up that building in his first video and was like "I-I-did that." I knew it wasn't going to be a good move for me. I loved every one of his videos. They were creepy, mysterious, well-shot, well acted and scripted. I loved his twisted villain logic. I also really liked the part where he has all these kids coming up to him and he's like...blessing them with his hands out.

I mean, I really did think Kingsley was funny. He was. I just feel they wasted such a great villain. He was turning out to be so good for me and then they turned him into a joke which infuriates me. It really hurt the movie for me. Not to the point where it's ruined, like I said I do like it. It could have been so much more with Mandarin just staying Mandarin.
agreed

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Old 05-26-2013, 05:43 PM   #221
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I liked the movie overall, I had some issues with it, but my biggest is the Mandarin thing. I too found out a few weeks before seeing it, thankfully. I would have been PISSED in theaters.

I don't like or dislike comic Mandarin. He's okay. I do however, LOVE what I saw in the trailers and the clip in terms of look, portrayal and I dug the voice like crazy. I loved in the teaser "some people call me a terrorist, I consider myself a teacher." He sounded so intimidating, authoritative, and pompous. He looked scary as well. I liked all the backstory I was hearing from the interviews. I also liked having the idea that he was behind Tony's initial capture or at least part of that group (Ten Rings and all). Then I saw that clip where he has that guy held hostage and I just thought it was so well done. I really liked the coldness to his eyes and voice when he casually claims "I'm sure he's a really good guy.......I'm gonna shoot him in the head." It was so amazing to me and I was so pumped! He looked like a new top villain like Joker or Magneto. Then I heard about this twist and suddenly I was just empty inside about the Mandarin. I couldn't believe it. But, I hoped when I saw the movie I'd accept it.
I didn't. I think at the point when he talked about blowing up that building in his first video and was like "I-I-did that." I knew it wasn't going to be a good move for me. I loved every one of his videos. They were creepy, mysterious, well-shot, well acted and scripted. I loved his twisted villain logic. I also really liked the part where he has all these kids coming up to him and he's like...blessing them with his hands out.

I mean, I really did think Kingsley was funny. He was. I just feel they wasted such a great villain. He was turning out to be so good for me and then they turned him into a joke which infuriates me. It really hurt the movie for me. Not to the point where it's ruined, like I said I do like it. It could have been so much more with Mandarin just staying Mandarin.
You summed it up very well, I agree.

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Old 05-26-2013, 05:52 PM   #222
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I liked the movie overall, I had some issues with it, but my biggest is the Mandarin thing. I too found out a few weeks before seeing it, thankfully. I would have been PISSED in theaters.

I don't like or dislike comic Mandarin. He's okay. I do however, LOVE what I saw in the trailers and the clip in terms of look, portrayal and I dug the voice like crazy. I loved in the teaser "some people call me a terrorist, I consider myself a teacher." He sounded so intimidating, authoritative, and pompous. He looked scary as well. I liked all the backstory I was hearing from the interviews. I also liked having the idea that he was behind Tony's initial capture or at least part of that group (Ten Rings and all). Then I saw that clip where he has that guy held hostage and I just thought it was so well done. I really liked the coldness to his eyes and voice when he casually claims "I'm sure he's a really good guy.......I'm gonna shoot him in the head." It was so amazing to me and I was so pumped! He looked like a new top villain like Joker or Magneto. Then I heard about this twist and suddenly I was just empty inside about the Mandarin. I couldn't believe it. But, I hoped when I saw the movie I'd accept it.
I didn't. I think at the point when he talked about blowing up that building in his first video and was like "I-I-did that." I knew it wasn't going to be a good move for me. I loved every one of his videos. They were creepy, mysterious, well-shot, well acted and scripted. I loved his twisted villain logic. I also really liked the part where he has all these kids coming up to him and he's like...blessing them with his hands out.

I mean, I really did think Kingsley was funny. He was. I just feel they wasted such a great villain. He was turning out to be so good for me and then they turned him into a joke which infuriates me. It really hurt the movie for me. Not to the point where it's ruined, like I said I do like it. It could have been so much more with Mandarin just staying Mandarin.
Pretty much.

And I didn't know this beforehand, I rolled my eyes so much that I had the whole theater hearing it.

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Old 06-13-2013, 02:10 PM   #223
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A fact that can easily be retconned. Not saying it will, I just really, really hope it is.

Personally, I'm surprised people made a bigger deal out of Dr. Doom. This is Galacticloud levels of character betrayal. While I found it funny and interesting, it was very lame and a waste.
It's because Doctor Doom is a character with a much richer backstory and a more nuanced and layered personality, and is all around a much more dynamic and three dimensional character, whereas the Mandarin in most incarnations is just a generic sic-fi/action movie warlord who's motivation is that the Chinese government took his dad's money away and he's pissed. The Mandarin of the comics has had some very good stories, but at his core the character is kind of a blank slate. Also people like Doctor Doom more.

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Old 06-13-2013, 02:16 PM   #224
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

Anyway, I didn't mind the twist at all. It was a fun misdirection, and Aldrich Killian ended up embodying all of the core aspects of The Mandarin from the comics anyway: A nobody filled with bitterness and ambition, who stumbles across a source of power that allows him to fight Iron Man in close quarters combat without a suit, and reinvents himself as a criminal mastermind working through guerrillas and terrorist groups as proxies to amass all of the power and wealth he feels the world owes him. And Guy Pierce played the part very well.

The main difference is that he's a white guy named Aldrich Killian instead of an Asian guy named Gene Khan, which I think is necessary because The Mandarin is a little bit racist let's face it.

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Old 06-13-2013, 02:21 PM   #225
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we're all a little bit racist

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