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Old Yesterday, 03:03 PM   #1
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Default Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

Alright guys, daily we get complaints about threads going off-topic and devolving into an Old vs New debate/flame war. In order to limit this from happening, we're going to have a thread EXCLUSIVELY for such debate. You may NOT engage in Raimi vs Webb debates in other threads, nor can you allow threads to devolve into Raimi vs Webb debates. If that happens, the zero tolerance policy comes back, and this thread is closed.

Do I make myself clear? So, have it at.

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Old Yesterday, 03:07 PM   #2
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Default Re: Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

Thanks, Spider-Fan.

I think it's only natural as fans of the character for us to want and to be allowed to compare the two different franchises. And I think there are plenty of people on these boards that are capable of handling the discussions in a fair and respectful manner.

IMO, neither franchise has given me the ideal Spider-Man movie. Both have their merits and both have their faults.

Edit:

Current rankings--

SM2 (9/10)
ASM (8/10)
SM1 (7/10)
ASM2 (7/10)
SM3 (3/10)


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Old Yesterday, 03:12 PM   #3
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Default Re: Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

The issue more or less has been the maturity level of conversations on this topic. Hence why this is on a trial currently. Most Raimi vs Webb discussion end up REALLY heated because the fanbases are very dedicated to their series. For example, I love the Raimi films (and I have a great passion for them both as CBMs and films in general...as I grow in my career in film, Raimi's Spidey are films I shall draw inspiration from), I thought TASM was good but nothing special and I downright hated TASM2.

It's been a fine line during this reboot process. Hopefully, you guys can show that my faith is rewarded, and this thread becomes an asset to the forum and brings up interesting conversation.

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Old Yesterday, 03:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

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Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
The issue more or less has been the maturity level of conversations on this topic. Hence why this is on a trial currently. Most Raimi vs Webb discussion end up REALLY heated because the fanbases are very dedicated to their series. For example, I love the Raimi films (and I have a great passion for them both as CBMs and films in general...as I grow in my career in film, Raimi's Spidey are films I shall draw inspiration from), I thought TASM was good but nothing special and I downright hated TASM2.

It's been a fine line during this reboot process. Hopefully, you guys can show that my faith is rewarded, and this thread becomes an asset to the forum and brings up interesting conversation.
I hope so too.

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Old Yesterday, 04:38 PM   #5
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Default Re: Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
The issue more or less has been the maturity level of conversations on this topic. Hence why this is on a trial currently. Most Raimi vs Webb discussion end up REALLY heated because the fanbases are very dedicated to their series. For example, I love the Raimi films (and I have a great passion for them both as CBMs and films in general...as I grow in my career in film, Raimi's Spidey are films I shall draw inspiration from), I thought TASM was good but nothing special and I downright hated TASM2.

It's been a fine line during this reboot process. Hopefully, you guys can show that my faith is rewarded, and this thread becomes an asset to the forum and brings up interesting conversation.
Thanks! I hope this thread becomes a great debate.

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Old Yesterday, 05:08 PM   #6
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Default Re: Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

I think an interesting queston to ask would be if Spider-Man 1 or The Amazing Spider-Man were better origin stories.

They're both really solid films, close in RT ratings, so it comes more down to personal opinions.

I'd push for TASM, simply because it has a more homey feel. Its a rather warm film, decent villian, decent conclusion, decent extension of the character to really becoming spider-man.

Spider-Man 1 is great as well, but I don't think it has the flair that TASM has. I think its outright beaten from the first beat in romance, and considering what a big part that plays in both series, I think its really telling.

Raimi vs Webb as a whole probably goes to Raimi, just on virture of Spider-Man 2

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Old Yesterday, 05:26 PM   #7
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Default Re: Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

Still haven't really seen a great Spider-Man movie yet for me, although Spider-Man 2 was pretty decent, Tobey Maguires Peter Parker came off as a bit of a soppy tart and I never bought him as that character, I liked Garfields Peter in TASM better, but in TASM2, which is just a dreadful film, Peter and Spider-Man have essentially the same personality, he comes across a bit cocky as Peter, it's ok when it comes from Spider-Man, but that's not how Pete should be, as a long time comic book reader, I always felt that when Peter suited up, that's when he could truly be himself, with the mask on he no longer had to be introverted or hold back, being Spider-Man is something he is good at and he relishes in it, where as without the mask he is more reserved and aware of his, Peter Parkers, place in the world.

Five movies in and I'm still yet to see a good Peter Parker, Spider-Man sure, anybody could put the suit on, say a few quips, lay on some heavy cgi and it's a treat for the eyes, but where is a true representation of Pete, the animated series Spectacular Spider-Man did a MUCH better job on this than any of these movies.

I don't have much hope for TASM franchise to be honest, the first wasn't great and the second was a stinker, for me, as of right now, I think Raimis Spider-Man2 still reigns supreme, and trust me, I'm not a fan boy of either.

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Old Yesterday, 05:29 PM   #8
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Default Re: Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAB View Post
I think an interesting queston to ask would be if Spider-Man 1 or The Amazing Spider-Man were better origin stories.

They're both really solid films, close in RT ratings, so it comes more down to personal opinions.

I'd push for TASM, simply because it has a more homey feel. Its a rather warm film, decent villian, decent conclusion, decent extension of the character to really becoming spider-man.

Spider-Man 1 is great as well, but I don't think it has the flair that TASM has. I think its outright beaten from the first beat in romance, and considering what a big part that plays in both series, I think its really telling.

Raimi vs Webb as a whole probably goes to Raimi, just on virture of Spider-Man 2

Just want to say thinks for having this thread on hear been wishing we had something like this for a while any way with what your said about asm1 vs sm1 to me the movies are very close. There are creation things I like more about sm1 then asm1 and the other way to. Sm1 I think has a much better soundtrack has asm1 soundtrack sucked to me. Sm1 better costumer has the asm1 costumer was just so ungle and bad and I miss not having the danly bugle in asm1. Sm1 had the better acting villain has William defore not it out of the park has the goblin. Now asm1 I think has better action has I thought the school fight and the last fight where both pretty good and I think the lizard motivations are better then goblins in sm1. I mean with goblin after he kills the board members what else does he want like when he trys to get spider man to join him why does he want spider man to join him? Does he want the key to the city or what? lol. Also the fight with lizard in the swear even though it was a short fight was cool has we hadn't really seen a underwater fight like that before In a spider man movie. ASM1 better web swining and better romance and Andrew Garfield is just great has spider man. Slight head to asm1 over sm 1 to me but for its time I think sm 1 was the better movie has it did a lot more for sm and for comic book movies then asm1 did. For its time I would say sm1 was great but has now aged really bad and is just slightly good. Now asm1 I think was just slightly and will stay slightly good to ok for a while.

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Old Yesterday, 05:58 PM   #9
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Default Re: Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

When I see SM1, I just think of NYC, 2002 as the setting. I think that GG is imo the best villain in the franchise. He reverberated through the whole trilogy and he wasn't supposed to have direct motivation. Norman's desperate ambition resulted in a split personality that was capable of "violence, aggression, and insanity." He became infatuated with SM after the world unity festival and even tried to put his twisted but somewhat complex ideas on him. Maybe he saw himself as a mentor? Maybe he was talking about Harry and the Board when he said "In spite of everything you've done for them eventually they will hate you" ? I think that GG is much more complex than people give him credit for.

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Old Yesterday, 07:55 PM   #10
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Default Re: Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

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Originally Posted by Sexy Magician View Post
Still haven't really seen a great Spider-Man movie yet for me, although Spider-Man 2 was pretty decent, Tobey Maguires Peter Parker came off as a bit of a soppy tart and I never bought him as that character, I liked Garfields Peter in TASM better, but in TASM2, which is just a dreadful film, Peter and Spider-Man have essentially the same personality, he comes across a bit cocky as Peter, it's ok when it comes from Spider-Man, but that's not how Pete should be, as a long time comic book reader, I always felt that when Peter suited up, that's when he could truly be himself, with the mask on he no longer had to be introverted or hold back, being Spider-Man is something he is good at and he relishes in it, where as without the mask he is more reserved and aware of his, Peter Parkers, place in the world.

Five movies in and I'm still yet to see a good Peter Parker, Spider-Man sure, anybody could put the suit on, say a few quips, lay on some heavy cgi and it's a treat for the eyes, but where is a true representation of Pete, the animated series Spectacular Spider-Man did a MUCH better job on this than any of these movies.

I don't have much hope for TASM franchise to be honest, the first wasn't great and the second was a stinker, for me, as of right now, I think Raimis Spider-Man2 still reigns supreme, and trust me, I'm not a fan boy of either.
While I don't see Garfield coming off cocky but I am glad that you didn't say that he comes off has a jerk lol. I don't get how people think he is a jerk. I can understand what you mean about peter though. In sm 1-3 peter was a little to like shy and geckey and in asm1 and 2 he is kind of to confiedent a little bit any way not much.

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Old Yesterday, 07:56 PM   #11
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Default Re: Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

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Originally Posted by spidermanJLA!~ View Post
When I see SM1, I just think of NYC, 2002 as the setting. I think that GG is imo the best villain in the franchise. He reverberated through the whole trilogy and he wasn't supposed to have direct motivation. Norman's desperate ambition resulted in a split personality that was capable of "violence, aggression, and insanity." He became infatuated with SM after the world unity festival and even tried to put his twisted but somewhat complex ideas on him. Maybe he saw himself as a mentor? Maybe he was talking about Harry and the Board when he said "In spite of everything you've done for them eventually they will hate you" ? I think that GG is much more complex than people give him credit for.
I think doc ock is the best villain we have got in a sm movie but GG was really good to and I acturley liked his costumer. I think I am the only one that likes his costumer lol.

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Old Yesterday, 08:19 PM   #12
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Default Re: Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAB View Post
I think an interesting queston to ask would be if Spider-Man 1 or The Amazing Spider-Man were better origin stories.

They're both really solid films, close in RT ratings, so it comes more down to personal opinions.

I'd push for TASM, simply because it has a more homey feel. Its a rather warm film, decent villian, decent conclusion, decent extension of the character to really becoming spider-man.

Spider-Man 1 is great as well, but I don't think it has the flair that TASM has. I think its outright beaten from the first beat in romance, and considering what a big part that plays in both series, I think its really telling.

Raimi vs Webb as a whole probably goes to Raimi, just on virture of Spider-Man 2
Hmmm. In my opinion, Raimi did an overall better job of translating Spidey's origin tale to the big screen. He captured the essence of the classic ditko comics and really nailed the whole "with great power comes great responsibility" ethos that is Peter Parker's drive and the core of the comic books. There were some elements of TASM (namely the mystery of Parker's parents and the Oscorp conspiracy stuff) that I could have honestly done without.

Emma and Andrew did have better chemistry together. They're cute and fun to watch when they're ad-libbing and I'm really hoping that they'll work together again, but that doesn't really elevate the surrounding story for me. Besides which, SM1's romance was handled nicely and fed into the overarching themes of Peter's origin story. That upside down kiss alone is probably the most iconic scene out of both franchises, and Kirsten and Tobey were fine in their roles during SM1 with Dunst's character blending elements of 616 Liz Allen, Betty Brant, Gwen Stacy, and (of course) MJ, and Tobey closely mirroring a very early Peter Parker. It's SM2 and 3 (mostly 3) when things on the relationship front start to go downhill and they really start to deviate from their comic book counterparts.

I also think that Dafoe's Goblin was the better villain, and let's not forget JK Simmon's flawless performance as J Jonah Jameson. You can't have Spider-man without Jameson. They're both solid films, but all in all, if I had to pick the film that is a better "snapshot" of the Spider-man universe, I'd pick SM1.

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Old Yesterday, 08:38 PM   #13
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Default Re: Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

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Hmmm. In my opinion, Raimi did an overall better job of translating Spidey's origin tale to the big screen. He captured the essence of the classic ditko comics and really nailed the whole "with great power comes great responsibility" ethos that is Peter Parker's drive and the core of the comic books. There were some elements of TASM (namely the mystery of Parker's parents and the Oscorp conspiracy stuff) that I could have honestly done without.

Emma and Andrew did have better chemistry together. They're cute and fun to watch when they're ad-libbing and I'm really hoping that they'll work together again, but that doesn't really elevate the surrounding story for me. Besides which, SM1's romance was handled nicely and fed into the overarching themes of Peter's origin story. That upside down kiss alone is probably the most iconic scene out of both franchises, and Kirsten and Tobey were fine in their roles during SM1 with Dunst's character blending elements of 616 Liz Allen, Betty Brant, Gwen Stacy, and (of course) MJ, and Tobey closely mirroring a very early Peter Parker. It's SM2 and 3 (mostly 3) when things on the relationship front start to go downhill and they really start to deviate from their comic book counterparts.

I also think that Dafoe's Goblin was the better villain, and let's not forget JK Simmon's flawless performance as J Jonah Jameson. You can't have Spider-man without Jameson. They're both solid films, but all in all, if I had to pick the film that is a better "snapshot" of the Spider-man universe, I'd pick SM1.
What score would you give asm1 and sm 1? For me it is hard to rank the spider man movies. I think sm2 is the best and then asm2 but after that I think the other 3 are very close to eatch other. I think I would say asm1 8.2 and sm1 8.

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Old Yesterday, 08:51 PM   #14
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What score would you give asm1 and sm 1? For me it is hard to rank the spider man movies. I think sm2 is the best and then asm2 but after that I think the other 3 are very close to eatch other. I think I would say asm1 8.2 and sm1 8.
I have trouble ranking them too. I enjoyed both of them. I just have a personal preference for SM1. I guess I'd give ASM1 a 7.5 and SM1 an 8. I agree that SM2 is the best film even though SM1 is a closer adaptation of the comic books. I'd probably give it an 8.5. I think there's definitely still room for improvement when it comes to Spider-man films.

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Old Yesterday, 10:28 PM   #15
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Default Re: Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

ASM is the only SM movie I somewhat like.

Guess I'm not a fan of cheesy Spider-man movies (SM1-3, ASM2).

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Old Yesterday, 11:03 PM   #16
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Default Re: Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

I love and adore the Raimi trilogy. Always have and always will. However,I do see and realize the films have their flaws and at times,can get extremely cheesy. Even part 3,which a lot of people either hate or dislike,I really love. I think that part of the reason I love the films so much is because they also remind me of some great times in my life,but they are also so epic in scale and I really looked forward to every movie. It was like a major event when each film was released.

With this new series,I'm not as much of a fan but I still like the films. In fact,I do think that the 2 ASM movies do get a lot of things right that Raimi's series didn't. I'll rate the movies like this...

1. Spider-man 2
2. Spider-man 3
3. Spider-man
4. Amazing Spider-man 2
5. Amazing Spider-man

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Old Yesterday, 11:05 PM   #17
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Default Re: Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

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I love and adore the Raimi trilogy. Always have and always will. However,I do see and realize the films have their flaws and at times,can get extremely cheesy. Even part 3,which a lot of people either hate or dislike,I really love. I think that part of the reason I love the films so much is because they also remind me of some great times in my life,but they are also so epic in scale and I really looked forward to every movie. It was like a major event when each film was released.

With this new series,I'm not as much of a fan but I still like the films. In fact,I do think that the 2 ASM movies do get a lot of things right that Raimi's series didn't. I'll rate the movies like this...

1. Spider-man 2
2. Spider-man 3
3. Spider-man

4. Amazing Spider-man 2
5. Amazing Spider-man
Whoa! Can you elaborate on that?

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Old Yesterday, 11:19 PM   #18
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Whoa! Can you elaborate on that?

Sure. I'd like to say however,that I love the entire trilogy pretty much equally. Each movie has it's strengths and weaknesses,but at least or me,Spider-man 3 is the most fun and entertaining of the entire trilogy. I can watch that movie and never get tired of it. Plus,I never get tired of seeing Venom and the black suit on film(even if they did get screwed over). Spidey 3 has it's flaws,yes,but I can get past all the mistakes and have fun watching the movie.

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Old Yesterday, 11:24 PM   #19
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Sure. I'd like to say however,that I love the entire trilogy pretty much equally. Each movie has it's strengths and weaknesses,but at least or me,Spider-man 3 is the most fun and entertaining of the entire trilogy. I can watch that movie and never get tired of it. Plus,I never get tired of seeing Venom and the black suit on film(even if they did get screwed over). Spidey 3 has it's flaws,yes,but I can get past all the mistakes and have fun watching the movie.
OK, I agree that SM3 has some entertaining scenes like the Crane scene and the final fight scene with Venom. Even the "do the twist" had me bobbing my head.

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Old Yesterday, 11:51 PM   #20
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Default Re: Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

Personally, I didn't mind the cheese in SM1 and 2. IMO, it gave the films a classic Silver Age type feel. I really didn't care for it in SM3 though.

That being said, I'd definitely be interested in a far more grounded/adult approach to Spider-man. I don't think TASM quite accomplished that, and judging from TASM2, it's obvious that they've decided to go in the opposite direction with the franchise.

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Old Today, 12:29 AM   #21
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Default Re: Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

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Personally, I didn't mind the cheese in SM1 and 2. IMO, it gave the films a classic Silver Age type feel. I really didn't care for it in SM3 though.

That being said, I'd definitely be interested in a far more grounded/adult approach to Spider-man. I don't think TASM quite accomplished that, and judging from TASM2, it's obvious that they've decided to go in the opposite direction with the franchise.
The cheese doesn't brother me much but after asm1 and 2 it brothers me more has I found sm 1-3 to be way more cheese then both asm1 and 2. I know people think asm2 is cheese but I don't see it has it is the least chesse spider man movie we have had yet to me.

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Old Today, 12:50 AM   #22
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The cheese doesn't brother me much but after asm1 and 2 it brothers me more has I found sm 1-3 to be way more cheese then both asm1 and 2. I know people think asm2 is cheese but I don't see it has it is the least chesse spider man movie we have had yet to me.
You think TASM1 is more cheesy than TASM2?

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Old Today, 01:01 AM   #23
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Default Re: Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

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While I don't see Garfield coming off cocky but I am glad that you didn't say that he comes off has a jerk lol. I don't get how people think he is a jerk. I can understand what you mean about peter though. In sm 1-3 peter was a little to like shy and geckey and in asm1 and 2 he is kind of to confiedent a little bit any way not much.
I do think he comes off like a jerk. Take TASM2. He allows that truck to smash cars left and right, while he sits on the roof and makes fun of him while doing NOTHING to stop the truck. Then, we find out, he is toying around when he KNOWS he is nearly late to his graduation and for Gwen's speech. Sorry, that is showing me he has bad priorities. It seems like he'd rather be Spider-Man than he would see Gwen's biggest moment of her life at the time. Yes, Peter is late to important things ALL the time in the comic, but it isn't for lack of effort for trying to be there. When he needs to be somewhere, he tries not to toy around. He tries to end those battles quickly. Here, he wasn't. In fact, he seemed to making it a point NOT to rush it. Bad portrayel, This is not the only evidence of Garfield Parker acting this way, and I don't like it. It is very NOT Spider-Man to me.

To me, Garfield's Peter is way too much of a jock for me to buy as a nerd. Even if today's nerds are not as awkward as Tobey's Peter, there is no way Garfield's Parker WASN'T a cool kid in school. Peter is not the type of guy who makes out with his girl on stage. That is a jock move. Also, Peter should know enough about science not to need YT to explain how a battery works. Things like this add up to me not buying into this character. I do think there is a balanced portrayel of Parker somewhere between Garfield's jock and Maquire's nerd that would be best for Parker. So far, we didn't get that, but I find myself able to root for Maguire's underdog Parker much more than Garfield's fast talking jock.

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Old Today, 02:56 AM   #24
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Default Re: Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

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You think TASM1 is more cheesy than TASM2?
I would have to go back and watch asm1 again to explain it better but yeah or at least the same. The only thing I found cheesy in asm2 was when peter comes back home with the fish and the its my birthday line and when max is talking to him self in his apartment witch is only like 3 minutes out of a 135 minute movie other then that nothing it cheesy to me at all in asm2.

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Old Today, 03:01 AM   #25
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Default Re: Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

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I do think he comes off like a jerk. Take TASM2. He allows that truck to smash cars left and right, while he sits on the roof and makes fun of him while doing NOTHING to stop the truck. Then, we find out, he is toying around when he KNOWS he is nearly late to his graduation and for Gwen's speech. Sorry, that is showing me he has bad priorities. It seems like he'd rather be Spider-Man than he would see Gwen's biggest moment of her life at the time. Yes, Peter is late to important things ALL the time in the comic, but it isn't for lack of effort for trying to be there. When he needs to be somewhere, he tries not to toy around. He tries to end those battles quickly. Here, he wasn't. In fact, he seemed to making it a point NOT to rush it. Bad portrayel, This is not the only evidence of Garfield Parker acting this way, and I don't like it. It is very NOT Spider-Man to me.

To me, Garfield's Peter is way too much of a jock for me to buy as a nerd. Even if today's nerds are not as awkward as Tobey's Peter, there is no way Garfield's Parker WASN'T a cool kid in school. Peter is not the type of guy who makes out with his girl on stage. That is a jock move. Also, Peter should know enough about science not to need YT to explain how a battery works. Things like this add up to me not buying into this character. I do think there is a balanced portrayel of Parker somewhere between Garfield's jock and Maquire's nerd that would be best for Parker. So far, we didn't get that, but I find myself able to root for Maguire's underdog Parker much more than Garfield's fast talking jock.
I didn't find him to be toying around at all. He told him to stop and not much later he was trying to break the class on the truck. I get what you say about Garfield vs tobey though. I don't think he is a jock but he dose semed a little to cool though where tobey was a little to shy. So yeah I do agree that we need kind of a middle ground between the 2. When it comes to spider man though Garfield is just perfect.

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